That's great information, thanks John!!



________________________________
From: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 2:56 PM
To: John Allen; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Underwater Luminaires for CE


It's an example of bad standardization. They do occur, usually because no-one 
spots the issue, or at least no-one challenges it. Luminaires come under one 
committee, pumps under a different one. Besides, I doubt that anyone wants to 
make that sort of pump to run off 12 V.



Look at the Scope clause. It doesn't apply to luminaires not in contact with 
the water. I don't know if that helps.  Probably not, because the real issue 
may not be the EN or the underlying IEC standard, dated 1993, but IEC 60364 - 
the electrical installation rules. I don't have the IEC standard, but in the BS 
7671 version is 702.410.3.4.1 , which requires power in the water to be 12 V 
SELV, except for fountains. 702.410.3.4.2 covers fountains, for which there 
must be at least one of:



-        SELV

-        Auto-disconnect, using a specified RCD

-        Electrical separation (Section 413 of the standard, which sounds a bit 
dodgy to me according to modern thinking about safety).



IEC 60598-2-18:1993 is very long overdue for review. You could try to get IEC 
SC34D to do that.



With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only

www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh England



Sylvae in aeternum manent.



From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 8:18 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Underwater Luminaires for CE



Hi everyone,



Happy holidays!!



We found in EN60598-2-18 (Luminaires for Swimming pools and similar 
applications) only Class III luminaries are allowed (Clause 18.4.1).  It reads 
Luminaires shall be Class III for protection agains electric shock and shall 
have external and internal circuits which operate on voltages not exceeding 
12V.  The scope includes Fountains, which is our application.



This brings up a couple of questions:



1. How can an EN Standard dictate how to design a product?  If my luminaire is 
230V and potted so no water can get it, why can't it be used??



2. Underwater Pumps are allowed to be Class I or II that are located in the 
same Fountain.  Does anyone know why the difference?



I understand the swimming pool application as it's direct contact with humans, 
but I'm missing something here with a Fountain Luminaire??



Also, with today's compact LED Drivers is the Standard lagging too far behind?



Any insight would be appreciated.



Best Regards and have a Happy New Year!!



John

(From Chicago, USA)









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