That's great information, thanks John!!
________________________________ From: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 2:56 PM To: John Allen; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] Underwater Luminaires for CE It's an example of bad standardization. They do occur, usually because no-one spots the issue, or at least no-one challenges it. Luminaires come under one committee, pumps under a different one. Besides, I doubt that anyone wants to make that sort of pump to run off 12 V. Look at the Scope clause. It doesn't apply to luminaires not in contact with the water. I don't know if that helps. Probably not, because the real issue may not be the EN or the underlying IEC standard, dated 1993, but IEC 60364 - the electrical installation rules. I don't have the IEC standard, but in the BS 7671 version is 702.410.3.4.1 , which requires power in the water to be 12 V SELV, except for fountains. 702.410.3.4.2 covers fountains, for which there must be at least one of: - SELV - Auto-disconnect, using a specified RCD - Electrical separation (Section 413 of the standard, which sounds a bit dodgy to me according to modern thinking about safety). IEC 60598-2-18:1993 is very long overdue for review. You could try to get IEC SC34D to do that. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 8:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Underwater Luminaires for CE Hi everyone, Happy holidays!! We found in EN60598-2-18 (Luminaires for Swimming pools and similar applications) only Class III luminaries are allowed (Clause 18.4.1). It reads Luminaires shall be Class III for protection agains electric shock and shall have external and internal circuits which operate on voltages not exceeding 12V. The scope includes Fountains, which is our application. This brings up a couple of questions: 1. How can an EN Standard dictate how to design a product? If my luminaire is 230V and potted so no water can get it, why can't it be used?? 2. Underwater Pumps are allowed to be Class I or II that are located in the same Fountain. Does anyone know why the difference? I understand the swimming pool application as it's direct contact with humans, but I'm missing something here with a Fountain Luminaire?? Also, with today's compact LED Drivers is the Standard lagging too far behind? Any insight would be appreciated. Best Regards and have a Happy New Year!! John (From Chicago, USA) - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
