Brent,
I ran into a problem with HDMI cables back in 2014. It seems that the HDMI specification for the cables does not address the termination of the outer shield. A cable can be marked as HDMI compliant with or without the shield being properly terminated (or not terminated at all). And, price was no indicator of whether or not the shield was properly terminated. And, boy did it make a difference on whether or not a device with an HDMI interface passed or not. I went back to our product team and suggested that they contact the HDMI committee about this. I retired from Intel a bit over a year and a half ago and had not heard back at that time if there was any result to the inquiry (or if, indeed, the inquiry had ever been made). You are correct, certification of a cable to HDMI specifications has nothing to do with shielding. I hope those of you dealing with this have some success in getting the specification changed. Ghery S. Pettit, NCE Pettit EMC Consulting LLC gh...@pettitemcconsulting.com From: Brent DeWitt [mailto:bdew...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 4:58 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] lowest emissions 4k TV? I don’t want to go name bashing to the whole list, but about a year ago I had the project buy a bunch of very expensive HDMI cables in various lengths to compare against the cable we designed and have built for us. This company proudly advertised “THX Certified”. It appears that certification has little to do with shielding. That, or the manufacturer sent THX something very different than what they sold me, because they were some of the worst cables I’ve ever seen in terms of radiated emission characteristics. Dissection of one showed a ½ inch drain wire as the only shield to shell connection on a 4k advertised product. It ends up that our Bose branded cables are about as good as anything I can find. That’s not a sales pitch because (maybe unfortunately) we don’t sell them, only include them with the A4V product. From: Adam Dixon [mailto:lanterna.viri...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 8:34 AM To: Brent DeWitt <bdew...@ix.netcom.com> Cc: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: Re: [PSES] lowest emissions 4k TV? I added the FCC search option initially based on my first search returning one example from a supplier whose North American office is near me in the Atlanta area. I tried a couple other big names and didn't want to sort through hundreds of entries, so there was an early morning WalMart trip today to look at labels. The FCC ID portion of current generation smart TV labels now gives the WiFi module supplier's ID with "Contains xxxx ID yyyyyy" language. Oh well.... Also, am interested to know if anyone has comparison data with respect to TV size? From comments thus far and looking at a handful of tear down videos/pictures, I wonder how dramatic the differences may be between a 40" and a 70". Integrated speakers and button controls would give a nice range of internal cable lengths, as well as the raw panel size and power supply differences. I have seen differences in raw panel grounding schemes. With your cables and couplers experience, any feedback from the suppliers and are they all current HDMI adopters? It might be worth contacting the Lattice Semiconductor ATC for feedback. You never know if you are working with a part number which is different from the initial sample required by the HDMI testing policy. I had one experience in the DisplayPort world where a repeater was not certified though the main silicon inside was. Cheers, Adam in Atlanta On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Brent DeWitt <bdew...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: Excellent suggestion about the teardown sites! I hadn’t thought of that. The problem with FCC filings is there really aren’t any. TVs are verification only devices. There isn’t a reason for them to be posted to the FCC site (wish there was). Good thoughts on the evolution of the display world. One thing of particular note is the characteristics of 4k (or even 1080p) HDMI. It has four high speed differential pairs (TMDS) that have specified transition times between 85 and 45 psec. It takes only the slightest skew in this signal to create significant CM voltage on the system. I’ve found any number of commercially available cables and couplers that blow through the emissions limits when used between an otherwise compliant source and sink. From: Adam Dixon [mailto:lanterna.viri...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 7:23 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] lowest emissions 4k TV? In addition to the recommendations such as James', it may be worth some time looking at teardown videos (YouTube, iFixit, etc.) and FCC filings (the internal photos entry among all of the documents) to get an idea of construction. You won't know if you get a similarly well-performing sample like James' or an out-of-spec dud when you make the purchase decision.....unless 17 other PSTC members recommend the same make/model. ;-) Also, maybe a colleague on the list would have insight for the construction of medical class 4K displays versus consumer class in the event there are better regulatory margins that accompany the grayscale/color rendering performance requirements (whether implemented in hardware or firmware). >From my experience, there has been a shift in the display industry when >looking at internal construction where ferrite beads, metal foil tapes, outer >metal chassis have disappeared and it's now an LCD panel with its own >regulatory behaviors and several PCBs (power supply, TCON, scaler, WiFi, etc.) >bolted on the back with a mix of flex and discrete wire harnesses....all >covered by a rear plastic cover. Some of the shift is a function of moving >from CCFL to LED backlighting, some from having strictly digital I/O and >probably a few other factors like better PCB design/layout to ensure robust >high speed I/O performance. And a last option depending on time/$$ for comparison testing may be to use a different display load (projector, HDMI extender, etc.) to understand the relative behaviors. -Adam in Atlanta On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 5:30 AM, Pawson, James <james.paw...@echostar.com> wrote: Hi Brent, I’ve had some success with a (now slightly old) Samsung 4k TV that wasn’t too noisy, model UE48JU7000T. James From: Brent DeWitt [mailto:bdew...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: 10 January 2017 01:57 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] lowest emissions 4k TV? Hi group, Any suggestions on the best available 4k TV for emissions testing support? We seem to be in a continuous churn of looking for good, commercially available, sources and sinks. It would be a real plus if it also had ARC capability! I’m also wondering if there would be much support for a WIKI site for the EMC community to post their findings on support devices. Nothing proprietary, just measurements of “off the shelf” support equipment like TVs, monitors and sources. Thanks all! Brent DeWitt Milford, MA <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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