The ISO and IEC should develop and publish the rationale along with the release of the standard itself. Avoid forcing the data fit an existent conjecture. ANSI, SCC, CENELEC, etc should never harmonize a new standard without the engineering rationale.
As for a comparative tabulations - they are suitable tools, but they may foment a poor mindset that results in a gap analysis that does nothing to promulgate or ensure the 'new way' intended by stuff such as 3d ed 60601-1 and 62368-1. Brian My opinions do not necessarily reflect the policies or intent of the Klingon Emperor. Long live the Empire. And my employer tends to absolve themselves of my public statements From: Ted Eckert [mailto:000007cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:50 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Was there ever a comparison between IEC 60950-1 and IEC 62368-1 (current edition preferable)? And any rationale for any of the changes It appears that my copy of 60950-1 is a bit old. It was hand written on a vellum scroll. My company antiquities director prohibits me from cutting off a piece for spectrographic analysis. Ted Eckert Microsoft Corporation The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 12:55 PM To: Ted Eckert <ted.eck...@microsoft.com<mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com>>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Was there ever a comparison between IEC 60950-1 and IEC 62368-1 (current edition preferable)? And any rationale for any of the changes And if you print the standards, they are both made of paper. But it doesn't help. Steep learning curve! John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.woodjohn.uk&data=02%7C01%7CTed.Eckert%40MICROSOFT.COM%7Cce8e095f37214927e60c08d53ceba4e8%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636481905162828554&sdata=17EpA6VWQ%2BsodkqHfCSq0a584%2B%2Ffio9Tfv5vJmxLDlA%3D&reserved=0> Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2017-12-06 19:48, Ted Eckert wrote: A spectrographic analysis of a plum and coconut might find them to be quite similar. https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume1/v1i3/air-1-3-apples.html<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.improbable.com%2Fairchives%2Fpaperair%2Fvolume1%2Fv1i3%2Fair-1-3-apples.html&data=02%7C01%7CTed.Eckert%40MICROSOFT.COM%7Cce8e095f37214927e60c08d53ceba4e8%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636481905162828554&sdata=HnSQLDqXVWS5Zeox6ZoLTttcxpAvOVO%2B9wuo1mYhnaE%3D&reserved=0> Ted Eckert Microsoft Corporation The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 11:32 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Was there ever a comparison between IEC 60950-1 and IEC 62368-1 (current edition preferable)? And any rationale for any of the changes Back in the day, the question was asked: "What's the difference between an elephant and a plum?" Answer: "They're exactly the same, except the elephant." On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Pete Perkins <00000061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org<mailto:00000061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>> wrote: Leo, The requirements in 62368-1 are supported by the rationale document 62368-2 which more fully explains the basis for the requirements in the standard. It has been put together to help standards committees – such as yours – understand these. There was an early on comparison between 60950 and 62368 (already discussed here) which could be generally helpful but has not been kept up to the latest changes. The ongoing intent in 62368-1 has been to ensure that present practices should be acceptable under the new standard as long as they meet the requirements of the new standard. Most generally it probably can be assumed that they provide equivalent safety protection under each standard (altho there are some significant differences – e.g. the 10 or 100 uA touch current limits in 60601-1 which are lower than the allowed limits of 0.5 and 5mA in 62368-1); so it may not immediately fall out from some simple discussion since there are many details in each standard which need to be compared unless you accept the general assumption. TC108 is still struggling with the issues surrounding moving from 60950 to 62368 details, such as how to accept components designed to 60950 in the context of the new standard. TC108 has, in the past, invoked additional requirements on components when it appeared that the component standard did not meet the expected requirements of the standard. It is not unreasonable to do so again. Altho TC108 has worked with SC22E on their Low Voltage Switch Mode Power Supplies safety standard, IEC 61207-7, and have achieved considerable harmonization in the requirements the inclusion of that as a normative standard within 62368-1 certification is not yet automatically accepted; awaiting the outcome of the related issues discussed here. SC62A should request to work with TC108 in your process of review and change. This probably won’t work out for this week’s meeting but should provide you with a path to understanding how to incorporate these devices in your medical systems. Good luck in working thru all of this. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201<tel:%28503%29%20452-1201> p.perk...@ieee.org<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> From: Leo Eisner [mailto:l...@eisnersafety.com<mailto:l...@eisnersafety.com>] Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2017 4:40 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Was there ever a comparison between IEC 60950-1 and IEC 62368-1 (current edition preferable)? And any rationale for any of the changes I am in IEC SC62A (60601-1 series of standards - Medical electrical equipment & systems) meetings this week and we are trying to id the differences between these 2 standards so we can figure out how to integrate IEC 62368-1 into IEC 60601-1, 3rd ed. + A2, if we have the time and agreement with the National Committees is to be determined. We are working on A2 currently (at CD1 stage) and initially we decided not to include IEC 62368-1 in the A2 but wait for 4th ed. but that likely may be too late for power supplies as 60950 is ending in a couple years for at least EU. Thx all, Leonard (Leo) Eisner, P.E. Principal Consultant, Eisner Safety Consultants Phone: (503) 244-6151<tel:%28503%29%20244-6151> Mobile: (503) 709-8328<tel:%28503%29%20709-8328> Email: l...@eisnersafety.com<mailto:l...@eisnersafety.com> Website: www.EisnerSafety.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eisnersafety.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Cf6de49b47fd04649e85608d53ce008dc%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636481855278544230&sdata=Uwp%2F4lAovOLFvH%2FmYkyejxjODxGYatVXF5svzYEKajI%3D&reserved=0> *************** Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer *************** This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. 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