Hi Brian, “The good-old-days” Where have all the good times gone?
Legislation destroyed the essence of common sense practices and logic. Influenced by power (monetary) and opinion which equates to politics. Yup, I said the “P” word. Regards, Mark From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2018 4:56 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety Test Templates Question I have seen many reports from Field Evaluations where the inspector could not determine if a section was a pass or fail, so it was marked down as a FAIL or Non-Compliance. Just because they do not have the equipment in the field to make the determination, they put it down as a Non-Compliance (this happens in Europe). I think is should be illegal to call something Non-Compliant unless you can prove it is. Doesn’t the Directives state the Compliance is Assumed unless proven otherwise? (in not so many words). Also, if a section is Not Applicable, you had to write up a justification showing why this section does not apply. Like I don’t have better things to do. Remember the good-old-days? P P P P P P N P P N N P P P and without comments on every section. Brian Kunde Manager • Compliance Engineering LECO Corp • Compliance Testing Center From: John Allen [mailto:000009cc677f395b-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2018 4:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety Test Templates Question Having, over the years (!), seen a few TRF’s, I totally agree with the 1st sentence below – absolutely of no use to the “average” engineer in most companies, other than the test labs, because the “correct answers” are in the eyes of the beholders as there are so many possible interpretations and “hidden” questions! At my last company I had to totally dissect the standard (61010-1, 2nd Ed. IIRC) down to the individual phrases of each sentence of each para of each Clause of the document in order to be able to ask the question “Not applicable”, “Pass” or “Fail”. Even then, early in the analysis process, there were inevitably a lot of “To be Determined” (TBD) “answers” that would need a lot more investigation and possible testing before the “final” answer to that “Not applicable”, “Pass” or “Fail” question could be determined (possibly!) ☹ John E Allen W. London, UK From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: 02 August 2018 19:06 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety Test Templates Question Interesting, Seems like the test lab has put together their own criteria. The official TRF has this information. Possible test case verdicts: - test case does not apply to the test object......... : N/A - test object does meet the requirement............... : P (Pass) - test object does not meet the requirement......... : F (Fail) Best, Doug On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 12:01 PM Kevin J Harris <kevin.3.har...@jci.com<mailto:kevin.3.har...@jci.com>> wrote: Hi Doug The testing templates were for tests found in either IEC 60950 or IEC 62368. Kevin From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com<mailto:doug...@gmail.com>] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2018 1:27 PM To: Kevin J Harris <kevin.3.har...@jci.com<mailto:kevin.3.har...@jci.com>> Cc: EMC-PSTC <EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org>> Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety Test Templates Question Interesting question/ Can you be more specific on the type of test or the standards involved. Most IEC-based test report forms I use have P, F, NA Thx, Doug Douglas E Powell Laporte, Colorado USA doug...@gmail.com<mailto:doug...@gmail.com> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.linkedin.com-252Fin-252Fdougp01-26data-3D02-257C01-257Ckevin.3.harris-2540jci.com-257Cd5f7f94588884de21aeb08d5f89d3157-257Ca1f1e2147ded45b681a19e8ae3459641-257C0-257C0-257C636688276386766667-26sdata-3DF1yGeOvyb2-252F32VT-252FSeqOxZq4n1w-252FiQtgOf7KeO-252BMt48-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=8VMQciA5KLbm9hs0jXnR64Btb_Fb_LD1x_47pwdQQgw&s=-rkoKp-V9h-t6Pm9Nqo3KvXZYph1gdPbztTLwM7Ne3s&e=> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 11:21 AM Kevin J Harris <kevin.3.har...@jci.com<mailto:kevin.3.har...@jci.com>> wrote: Hello On test templates from several laboratories I have noticed where they indicate whether or not a particular test was successful or not, that there is an arrangement of text such as this Conforms: Y □ N □ Non-Conforms: Y □ N □ Is there a technical or legal reason behind this sort of double statement? Thanks Kevin - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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