John W
Is not the “80/20 rule” simply the “inverse” of the “80/80 rule”?J. BTW: those 20% of the committees that actually do the work (with which, from experience as a BSI committee secretary some years ago, I more than agree – although in many instances it was far less than 20%!!) are but an infinitesimal %age of the numbers of people who blithely have to accept the deliberations thereof (some of which were overly influenced by the “status” of, and pressure from, the Chairmen - at least that was the situation “quite a few years ago”, but it is hopefully much better controlled nowadays!). OTOH, in the context of EMC standards (etc.), what other “rule” might one reasonably choose when attempting to prepare a standard for “general consumption”?: e.g. - “Absolute/100% compliance”? - Obviously impossible in practice for practical and economic reasons (except in exceptional and highly critical situations). - “At the discretion of the assessor?” – we probably all know where that would lead (“How much money/work/…… do you want?”) - “Who the hell cares”!” – one sample passed (very marginally – seen that = 0.5 dBV on an OATS!) so that’ll be good enough! J - - Some “other” criteria?? – and thus?? Actually, that last “question” is quite a “serious” one – so what other criteria could be used? John E Allen W. London, UK From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] Sent: 18 November 2019 20:27 To: John Allen; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] 80/80 rule That's the 80/20 rule, which is an entirely different thing. It applies to standards committees; 20 % of members do all the work and 80 % just accept the results. Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2019-11-18 20:02, John Allen wrote: Quick search on “80/80 rule history” yields (for a start!): “It was named after it's founder, the Italian economist Vilfredo Pareto, back in 1895. He noticed that people in society seemed to divide naturally into what he called the “vital few,” or the top 20 percent in terms of money and influence, and the “trivial many,” or the bottom 80 percent.” And then “The Pareto principle (also known as the 80/20 rule, the law of the vital few, or the principle of factor sparsity) states that, for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes. ... Pareto developed both concepts in the context of the distribution of income and wealth among the population.” So the “rule” seems to date back to the late 19th Century, although (obviously!) not in the context of EMC control matters. However, I’m guessing it was later adopted in that context as a reasonable “rule of thumb” for assessing how well or not products could be assessed as being compliant with EMC standards. I have absolutely no idea when that might happened, but I would suggest looking for/at documents that lead up to the earlier known emission standards in the commercial field (military field was, and still is, a rather different one). John E Allen W. London, UK. From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] Sent: 18 November 2019 19:47 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] 80/80 rule I agree: I'm almost certain that it is German in origin, and I'm sure it dates back to the 20th Century, possibly as early as 1960. Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2019-11-18 19:44, John Shinn wrote: If my memory serves me right, as I recall, the 80/80 rule was in at least one of the VDE standards regarding radiated emissions. I can’t recall the number or name. This is going back to the late ‘70s or so. John Shinn Retired Sent from my iPhone On Nov 18, 2019, at 9:55 AM, John Woodgate <mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk> <j...@woodjohn.uk> wrote: Can someone tell me when the 80/80 rule was introduced into CISPR standards and if possible, a bit more detail than just the date, please? -- Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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