Doug - comments are appreciated. Unit is intended to be mobile, but only operational when off casters and leveled via the feet. Ballast in the base is being considered by the MEs, and I did not complete the Section 17 RA yet so your comments are useful there. Thanks.
> On 02/13/2024 12:10 PM EST Douglas Powell <doug...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > HI Steve, > > One thought that occurs to me. The method of test does not seem to mention if > it is intended for final installation or during the time when the unit is > mobile. By your description, I assume you intend it to be non-mobile. I did > this sort of topple test once before on a telescopic construction site light > tower. In that case, the topple test is unavoidable, but we had other > concerns about the tilt and then the release. The concern was about the unit > going over the center in the other direction after being released and whether > it would topple. The solution was to add more ballast in the battery > compartment below. > > In this case, I would try to get clarification on whether this test is > applicable to the operartional state and location only (castors up), and what > the level of expertise required for mobility? My assumption is it's > non-operational while mobile, if that even matters. > > Another possibility is to write up "conditions of use", in the user documents > and cover this concern under Section 17 Risk Assessment since it seems > possible that your concerns are not "fully addressed" in sections 6 thru 16, > 3rd edition. > > Best of luck, ~ Doug > > > Douglas E Powell > Laporte, Colorado, USA > doug...@gmail.com mailto:doug...@gmail.com > LinkedIn > https://streaklinks.com/B2gQNFh5uTDCaJcTcQbLipiI/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fcoloradocomplianceguy%2F > > (UTC-06:00, US-MDT) > > > > > > ᐧ > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 10:36 PM Steve Brody <sgbr...@comcast.net > mailto:sgbr...@comcast.net> wrote: > > > Experts: > > > > I need your opinions on the following. > > > > I am having a 'discussion' with an NRTL on a product that I can't show you > > a picture of but here is a description: > > * the base of the unit is 20" w x 26" l x 29" hf > > * the base of the unit is mounted on caster/leveling feet devices that when > > positioned for use, the leveling feet are lowered and the casters come off > > the ground, and the leveling feet are sufficiently rated for more than 4x > > the load of each corner > > * in the middle of the top of the base there is a robot mast for the Z > > axis, and it measures roughly 4" square and is 41" tall > > * the whole product weighs 220 lbs > > The stability requirements in 61010-1 are as follows, and I highlighted the > > text of interest: > > > > Equipment and assemblies of equipment not secured to the building structure > > before operation shall be physically stable. > > > > If means are provided to ensure that stability is maintained after the > > opening of drawers, etc. by an OPERATOR, either these means shall be > > automatic or there shall be a warning marking to apply the means. > > > > Each castor and support foot shall be RATED to support a load of at least 4 > > times its normal load, or the castors and support feet shall be tested > > according to d) and e), below. > > > > Conformity is checked by inspection and by carrying out each of the > > following tests, if applicable, to ensure that the equipment will not > > overbalance. Containers contain the RATED amount of substance which > > provides the least favourable conditions of NORMAL USE. Castors are in > > their least favourable position of NORMAL USE. Doors, drawers, etc. are > > closed unless otherwise specified below. > > 1. > > 1. Equipment other than HAND-HELD EQUIPMENT is tilted in each direction to > > an angle of 10° from its normal > > 2. Equipment which has both a height of 1 m or more and a mass of 25 kg or > > more, and all floor-standing equipment, has a force applied at its top, or > > at a height of 2 m if the equipment has a height of more than 2 The force > > is 250 N, or 20 % of the weight of the equipment, whichever is less, and is > > applied to all surfaces in directions which could cause the equipment to > > topple. Stabilizers used in NORMAL USE, and doors, drawers, etc., intended > > to be opened by an OPERATOR, are in their least favourable positions. > > 3. Floor-standing equipment has a force of 800 N applied downwards at the > > point of maximum moment to: > > + all horizontal working surfaces; > > + other surfaces providing an obvious ledge and which are not more than 1 m > > above floor > > Doors, drawers, etc. are closed, except that those intended to be opened > > by an OPERATOR are in their least favourable positions. > > > > When the force was applied at the top of the robot mast, it unit started to > > topple at 38 lbs, which is less than the required 44 lb force according to > > the standard. > > > > The case I presented why this test was not applicable was: > > * because the robot mast is located in the center of of the unit, and not > > flush with the sides, that it did not represent the same situation as a > > bookcase, filing cabinet, or other product which if someone were to bump > > into it, they would not be contacting the robot mast to due to the location > > in the center of the top. > > * the robot mast is part of a component and not part of the structure of > > the product, and so the test should be done at the top of the base unit, > > and no higher. > > * there is text in the user manual that says not to push on the robot mast > > when moving the product to new location > > * and, if absolutely necessary, we an add do not push labels at the top > > sides of the robot mast > > The NRTL rejected my rationale so I am looking to you to get your thoughts > > on this before I press on with them. > > > > Do you think the test is applicable? > > > > You can respond here publicly or privately, or at > > stev...@productehsconsulting.com mailto:stevenb@prduct > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Steve Brody > > sgbr...@comcast.net mailto:sgbr...@comcast.net > > C - 603 617 9116 > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ > > > > Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ > > Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to > > unsubscribe) https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html > > List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net mailto:msherma...@comcast.net > > Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org mailto:linf...@ieee.org > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ > > > > Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ > Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html > List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net mailto:msherma...@comcast.net > Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org mailto:linf...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org > > > --------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 > Steve Brody sgbr...@comcast.net mailto:sgbr...@comcast.net C - 603 617 9116 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> _________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
