Hi Rainer,
inline reply...
On [Fri, 28.01.2011 11:02], Rainer Döbele wrote:
> Hi Eike,
>
> I share your concerns, but as the article says there is no way to unimplement
> an interface, and hence the only option is to add the Serializeable interface
> only to the top level classes.
There is no need to unimplement, if it is not added to DBObject -
referring to the idea of tagging each single class instead of a very
top-level one. So each class below DBObject that is to be serializable
is tagged and DBReader is left out.
> In fact DBReader even is serializeable but only as long as there is no
> Resultset attached to it.
> So basically we would throw an exception only if Resultset!=Null.
that's true!
> Of course we could just forget it as we expect an Exception anyway since
> Resultset is not Serializeable.
> But IMO it would be cleaner if we explicitly define that somewhat like this:
>
> private void writeObject(ObjectOutputStream out) throws IOException
> {
> if (rset!=null)
> throw new NotSerializableException("Unable to serialize an open
> reader");
> }
>
> There is no need to implement readObject.
> For me this solution would be OK.
I agree. That would be ok for me, too. I'll try to apply this the next
couple of days and send you a patch.
Regards,
Eike
> Regards
> Rainer
>
>
>
> Eike Kettner wrote:
> > from: Eike Kettner [mailto:[email protected]]
> > to: [email protected]
> > re: Re: [jira] Updated: (EMPIREDB-97) Serialization of Empire-DB
> > objects
> >
> > Hi Rainer,
> >
> > I will add the serialVersionUID and send one patch of everything.
> >
> > Referring to "Stop Serialization": This is of course a solution, but it
> > feels a bit strange to me. The class implements Serializable but throws
> > Exceptions in its read/writeObject methods. So it will work for any
> > method that accepts arguments of type Serializable, but will then throw
> > runtime exceptions. (There are probably runtime exceptions thrown
> > anyways, because ResultSet is not serializable?) What I mean is, the
> > type says "yes", but the implementation says "no". I could imaging that
> > this approach is used if you have no "source-access" to the class you
> > are extending. Then you don't have much choice. What do you think?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Eike
> >
> > On [Fri, 28.01.2011 09:36], Rainer Döbele wrote:
> > > Hi Eike,
> > >
> > > yes we already have that on our list.
> > > For the upcoming release 2.1. we will leave things as they are, but
> > this will be the next big thing.
> > >
> > > If you want to add the sercialVersionID's that would be fine.
> > > You can send a complete patch including your first changes if you
> > want.
> > >
> > > About DBReader: In the following article
> > >
> > http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Programming/serializatio
> > n/
> > > you will find a paragraph titled "Stop That Serialization".
> > > I guess this is what we need.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Rainer
> > >
> > >
> > > Eike Kettner wrote:
> > > > from: Eike Kettner [mailto:[email protected]]
> > > > to: [email protected]
> > > > re: Re: [jira] Updated: (EMPIREDB-97) Serialization of Empire-DB
> > > > objects
> > > >
> > > > Hello Rainer,
> > > > Hello Francis,
> > > >
> > > > I must admit that I was a bit confused when I first had contact to
> > > > ErrorObject. It remembered me to coding C. I also think that
> > inheritance
> > > > shouldn't be "overused" and so I would like to see ErrorObject
> > disappear
> > > > :) But, of course, this is really some work, which must be done
> > > > carefully. Just wanted you to know, that I'm happy that there is an
> > > > effort like EMPIREDB-95.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks and regards,
> > > > Eike
> > > >
> > > > On [Thu, 27.01.2011 09:53], Rainer Döbele wrote:
> > > > > Hi Francis,
> > > > >
> > > > > yes I myself have asked this question a while ago, whether we
> > should
> > > > keep this old style error handling as an option.
> > > > > Currently we can switch between Exception-mode and an exception-
> > less
> > > > mode with Boolean return values for most functions to indicate an
> > error.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree that this exception-less mode is not really needed and I
> > have
> > > > no problem getting rid of it and only do Exceptions in the future.
> > > > However it only makes sense if we also change the return values of
> > most
> > > > functions and thus there is a lot to rethink an test - which means
> > quite
> > > > a bit of work.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would suggest to leave it for now until we have finished our
> > 2.1.
> > > > release.
> > > > > This should then be a major task for a 2.2. release.
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought we have an issue for this already but could not find
> > any.
> > > > > I have now changed EMPIREDB-95 which was "Code cleanup and review"
> > > > (did quite mean anything) to "Remove optional support for old style
> > > > error handing".
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Rainer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Francis De Brabandere wrote:
> > > > > > from: Francis De Brabandere [mailto:[email protected]]
> > > > > > to: [email protected]
> > > > > > re: Re: [jira] Updated: (EMPIREDB-97) Serialization of Empire-DB
> > > > > > objects
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rainer,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We probably already had a discussion about this ErrorObject
> > idea. I
> > > > > > still see this as some kind of anti-pattern from old times where
> > > > > > inheritance was the key to everything.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could you (again) explain me what the added value of this
> > > > ErrorObject
> > > > > > is (ignoring backwards compatibility)? I'll add that info to the
> > > > wiki
> > > > > > in case I forget once again or somebody else asks the same
> > question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Francis
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 11:36 PM, Rainer Döbele
> > <[email protected]>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi Eike,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can follow your conclusion and agree that making ErrorObject
> > > > > > serializeable makes no sense (why would anyone want to serialize
> > an
> > > > > > error anyway?), whereas serializing EmpireException is fine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have not applied your patch yet (but I will do), but there
> > is
> > > > one
> > > > > > more thing that came to my mind:
> > > > > > > DBReader is not serializeable as it requires a reference to an
> > > > open
> > > > > > java.sql.ResultSet.
> > > > > > > We have to make sure, that that a NotSerializeable exception
> > is
> > > > > > thrown, when attempting to serialize this class.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks and regards,
> > > > > > > Rainer
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Eike Kettner (JIRA) wrote:
> > > > > > >> from: Eike Kettner (JIRA) [mailto:empire-db-
> > > > [email protected]]
> > > > > > >> to: [email protected]
> > > > > > >> re: [jira] Updated: (EMPIREDB-97) Serialization of Empire-DB
> > > > > > >> objects
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EMPIREDB-
> > > > > > >> 97?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-
> > > > tabpanel
> > > > > > ]
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Eike Kettner updated EMPIREDB-97:
> > > > > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Attachment: 1_dbobject.patch
> > > > > > >> 0_exception.patch
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Hi there,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> As I started working on the serialization thing, I figured
> > that
> > > > it's
> > > > > > >> not a good idea to let ErrorObject implement Serializable.
> > Nearly
> > > > > > every
> > > > > > >> object extends ErrorObject and for some (and especially for
> > > > objects
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> come) it is not desireable to be serializable. I think its
> > not
> > > > that
> > > > > > >> good
> > > > > > >> to open so many object for serialization. Then there are
> > already
> > > > > > >> classes
> > > > > > >> that hold non-serializable references (I found
> > XMLConfiguration
> > > > to be
> > > > > > >> such a class). So, I think it could be a source of bugs to
> > open
> > > > every
> > > > > > >> object this way...
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> The other side is, that ErrorObject uses a static ThreadLocal
> > to
> > > > hold
> > > > > > >> error info. This wouldn't be serialized anyways. This means
> > > > > > >> EmpireException wouldn't be serializable even if ErrorObject
> > > > > > implements
> > > > > > >> Serializable.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Instead I chose to serialize EmpireException by using a
> > > > serializable
> > > > > > >> implementation of ErrorInfo. The major difference here:
> > > > > > EmpireException
> > > > > > >> does not hold a reference to the concrete object anymore, but
> > > > only a
> > > > > > >> copy of the error infos. IMHO, this is good for an exception,
> > but
> > > > I
> > > > > > >> have
> > > > > > >> no glue to what extend users rely on
> > > > EmpireException#getErrorObject
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> return a DBTable, XMLConfiguration etc. This is applied with
> > the
> > > > > > first
> > > > > > >> patch.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Then I chose to let DBObject implement Serializable. I think
> > that
> > > > > > it's
> > > > > > >> nice if data model objects are serializable. Plain SQL
> > strings
> > > > are
> > > > > > >> serializable and so I think objects like DBCommand or
> > > > DBOrderByExpr
> > > > > > >> (that represent parts of SQL) should be serializable, too :).
> > > > This is
> > > > > > >> applied in the second patch.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Regards,
> > > > > > >> Eike
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > Serialization of Empire-DB objects
> > > > > > >> > ----------------------------------
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Key: EMPIREDB-97
> > > > > > >> > URL:
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EMPIREDB-
> > > > > > >> 97
> > > > > > >> > Project: Empire-DB
> > > > > > >> > Issue Type: Wish
> > > > > > >> > Components: Core
> > > > > > >> > Reporter: Eike Kettner
> > > > > > >> > Attachments: 0_exception.patch, 1_dbobject.patch
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Looking at class EmpireException, it holds references to
> > two
> > > > non-
> > > > > > >> serializable objects: ErrorObject and ErrorType which breaks
> > the
> > > > > > >> contract with the Exception API.
> > > > > > >> > Now, it would be great for several use-cases to have
> > Empire-DB
> > > > > > >> objects serializable. If ErrorObject would be serializable,
> > it
> > > > would
> > > > > > >> first make EmpireException serializable (assuming ErrorType
> > to be
> > > > > > >> serializable) and next it would make every other DBXyz object
> > in
> > > > this
> > > > > > >> hierarchy serializable.
> > > > > > >> > Here is for reference the mail thread from users@ mailing
> > list:
> > > > > > >> > ------------------------------
> > > > > > >> > On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Eike Kettner
> > <[email protected]>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > Hi Rainer and Francis,
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > thanks for your quick replies and for giving this a
> > chance.
> > > > > > >> Serializing
> > > > > > >> > > an exception is sure not something massive used, however
> > > > > > sometimes
> > > > > > >> it is
> > > > > > >> > > quite a nice feature. For example, a JMSLogger sends log
> > > > events
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> a
> > > > > > >> > > broker, and there exceptions are serialized. Well, I see
> > that
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > >> > > not used often, and more or less a "special case" :).
> > Still,
> > > > I
> > > > > > >> would
> > > > > > >> > > consider a non-serializable exception a small "bug" -
> > just
> > > > > > because
> > > > > > >> it's
> > > > > > >> > > dictated by the java api.
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > I had a quick look at the sources and as far as I can
> > see, it
> > > > > > >> should be
> > > > > > >> > > ok to make "everything" serializable. There is always the
> > > > > > >> > > "serializable-drawback" to consider: users can save
> > objects
> > > > on
> > > > > > disk
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >> > > later try to load them with a new version of empire-db,
> > where
> > > > > > class
> > > > > > >> > > definitions have changed. Well, I think one can live with
> > > > this,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > >> > > does not apply to many other use-cases of serialization
> > (rmi,
> > > > > > >> > > serialization used in wicket or messaging), because
> > objects
> > > > are
> > > > > > >> > > serialized only for a short amount of time.
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > Regards,
> > > > > > >> > > Eike
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > On [Sat, 22.01.2011 13:49], Rainer D=F6bele wrote:
> > > > > > >> > >> Hi Eike,
> > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > >> I agree with Francis that I don't quite see the point
> > for
> > > > > > >> serializing an Exception, although I must admit that
> > > > > > >> java.lang.Throwable is Serializable.
> > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > >> But then I agree that we should consider making DBObject
> > or
> > > > > > >> ErrorObject serializeable which then would apply to the
> > entire
> > > > object
> > > > > > >> hierarchy.
> > > > > > >> > >> Regards
> > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > >> Rainer
> > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > >> Francis De Brabandere wrote:
> > > > > > >> > >> > from: Francis De Brabandere
> > [mailto:[email protected]]
> > > > > > >> > >> > to: [email protected]
> > > > > > >> > >> > re: Re: Serialization of EmpireException
> > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > >> > >> > Hi Eike,
> > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > >> > >> > I see no reason for not making them Serializable.
> > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > >> > >> > Rainer?
> > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > >> > >> > Cheers,
> > > > > > >> > >> > Francis
> > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Eike Kettner
> > > > <[email protected]>
> > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > >> > > Hello,
> > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > >> > > I was trying to serialize EmpireException but ran
> > into
> > > > an
> > > > > > >> error.
> > > > > > >> > >> > > EmpireException is marked as Serializable
> > > > (RuntimeException)
> > > > > > >> > >> > > but it holds references to ErrorObject and ErrorType
> > > > which
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > >> > >> > > serializable. Hence a NotSerializableException is
> > > > thrown.
> > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > >> > > When asking this, I like to ask whether there is a
> > > > thought
> > > > > > >> about making
> > > > > > >> > >> > > some model objects like DBRowset DBTable etc
> > > > serializable.
> > > > > > >> Since most or all
> > > > > > >> > >> > > DBXyz objects hold model information only it should
> > be
> > > > okay
> > > > > > >> for them to
> > > > > > >> > >> > > be serializable, imho? I use messaging and often
> > Apache
> > > > > > Wicket
> > > > > > >> which
> > > > > > >> > >> > > both use serialization, that's why I'm asking this.
> > (For
> > > > > > >> example, I'd
> > > > > > >> > >> > > like to pass around where and order-by expressions).
> > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > >> > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > >> > >> > > Eike
> > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > >> > >> > --
> > > > > > >> > >> > http://www.somatik.be
> > > > > > >> > >> > Microsoft gives you windows, Linux gives you the whole
> > > > house.
> > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > >> This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
> > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > >> You can reply to this email to add a comment to the issue
> > online.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > http://www.somatik.be
> > > > > > Microsoft gives you windows, Linux gives you the whole house.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > email: [email protected] https://www.eknet.org pgp: 481161A0
> > >
> >
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>
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