Re: [E-devel] The current state of E Widget ToolKit Libraries (EWTKL)

[Nathan Ingersoll]

raster, I just wanted to clarify a couple of your points. The email linked that shows a message from Simon that didn't get a response, it was followed closely by a similar email from Hisham which I did respond to, so I didn't feel it was necessary to respond with duplicate information on the same list. The patch submitted had problems, and I asked him to test it against some existing code and did not receive any further communication on the matter. My guess is he judged EWL based on the grid widget which he was trying to patch. That widget is one of a few containers that have gone unmaintained, so the code is not in good condition.

Maybe I hid it well in my previous messages, but there IS a degree of frustration on my part. Primarily, because I felt (and currently feel) that there was intentional deception when it was not necessary. The IRC communications we've had (Hisham, Simon, dan and myself) have been frustrating, unproductive and filled with generic attacks on the design without any specific design faults given. I illustrated an example of this in a previous message. It could be a language barrier, but I've never had language problems with Hisham prior to this, so that would surprise me. So my frustration doesn't stem from having another set of widgets added to CVS, but the fact that I can't get any reasoned response on questions I've asked. I also got the impression that Simon and Hisham were frustrated because dan and I were not willing to say that EWL had to be rewritten, which leads me to believe they intentionally kept it quiet to avoid conflict with dan and myself. I'm willing to take some blame if they felt I was unwilling to listen, but I made my best effort to get an explanation of their reasoning.

How many times have their been EWL rewrites, new layout engines, and widget wrappers that have appeared in CVS over the years? At least 5 that I know of (the current code base is #2 after massive evolution). I didn't really care then and don't really care now. The only thing different in this case is that the authors of those projects talked about what they were doing, explained what they were trying to accomplish, and were communicative about the process.

Looking ahead, if Simon and Hisham are committed to working as part of the team, one excellent way to extend an olive branch would be to BSD license their theme. With the heavy GTK influence I can understand Simon's reluctance to use a different license, but that only covers the code, not the theme. I did a quick port of their theme to EWL and it looked pretty damn good, but there's no chance of this work going into the EWL theme unless that license is changed. The way the two use edje is too different at this time to make themes that can be effectively shared between the two, but I don't see why some sharing can't occur at this level. ETK has the benefit of using EWL code without fear of license complications, it would be nice if EWL could do the same with the ETK theme.

I think I've said all I can on this topic, and we've all spent enough time on it. I do appreciate all of the support from the various developers that stepped forward when things smelled rotten. I think this has shown one of the biggest issues this project has always had, communicating ideas and plans between developers. We have lost a few good devs because of this in the past and it seems like a ridiculous reason to me. I don't think this is something that can be managed or imposed, but I do think we can improve it pretty simply.

Right now, most design discussion happens on IRC, which is great for quick discussion and brainstorming, but doesn't reach the full audience. So if you want to help improve communication, drop the list a note when you have an idea that you might implement. I'm not saying write a long explanation documenting every detail, just something along the lines of "Hey all, I'm thinking about writing this application using such and such a method for organizing the data, anyone have experience with this method or spot some issues in the idea?" Get some dialog started about it, and you might find you end up with better results or people willing to pitch in. I'll try to follow my own advice here and bring up some EWL changes that have been in the works.

Nathan