On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 00:27:39 -0500 Michael Jennings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> On Sunday, 25 December 2005, at 21:02:05 (+0100), > Michel Briand wrote: > > > - it's evident but it's better said than not : This Program Is > > Designed With Users In Mind, it's not your little toy, even if > > Raster as it's creator, you and all contributors own the > > intellectual property, Open Sourcing it makes the software the > > property of Users ;). > > Bullshit. Don't think for a second that someone being nice enough to > make their work available to you under an open source license gives > you some kind of entitlement. It's a gift. You get it as is. If you (even though mej and i disagree often...) i'll have tyo agree with mej here 100%. the software is produced and ythen given away - with source, free, out fo the goodness of hearts of developers. *IF* users begin to thgink they are ENTITLED to support, help, ownership of the software and ENTITLED to determine how it is developed - they might soon find their developrs have vanished and started makign real money off their work by writing it for windows or macos - where people.. *GASP* PAY for software and software developers can *GASP* ... make a living from it. so remember. developers donate 100's or even 1000's of hours of their own personal time to work on the software then GIVE IT AWAY for FREE.one day there will come a crunch if enough users push develoeprs - they will close their work up and make you pay for it. i have many times considered it and been tempted - but i haven't and i think it'd be wrong to do that. but as mej said - you should be REAAAALLY happy that every developer, contributor, patch sender, tester, doc writer, etc. etc. etc. all donate their time selflessly. > want something changed, you do it yourself, or you ask nicely and > realize that you may be refused. But it is in no way your property. > > > That's what I mean when I said "many Open Source projects are > > suffering"... That's the Great Concept, IMHO, of Richard > > Stallman. You give the software and no one can say "I own it". The > > main focus becomes : how to do things that benefits to the users. yeah. GREAT ideaq. u spend 1000's of hours workign on it and get nothing in return. GREAAAT idea. REAAALY smart!. dude. in the real world timeis money. time can be billed to customers - thats actually many years salary worth of billable time being given away for free. time is only worth nothing for those with unlimited time. those with jobs and skills find their time worth something. RMS's focs was on giving the CUSTOMER of the software the freedom to inspect, modify then re-distribute their changes, so they are not stuck with unusable machines or programs as they have no source and no ability to keep using it. > Richard Stallman is a nutcase, and we couldn't possibly care less what > his opinion is on software ownership. We don't use the GPL in case > you hadn't noticed. You own your changes and contributions to the > software, and NOTHING MORE. If you haven't helped out, you own jack > shit. > > > - software releases should be made clear and as much as possible, > > straightforward for users to download, build and install. But not > > the least: to migrate without burden. This means, I think, a smart > > way to migrate from e16.7 to e16.8+ config files... > > If you were paying for this software, I'd agree with you. But you're > not. So take what you can get or help out. Either way, the opinion > of someone who does not contribute is worth about as much as the paper > it's written on. And since we don't use paper around here, that > leaves you in quite a pickle. > > > - configuration management should identify that there is a change in > > config file syntax and/or structure. I.e. CVS should help us to > > signal these changes and package management systems should map > > this. I can greatly help you and all the Ecommunity. I've strong > > experience in SCM at work. Mainly in "industry class" managed > > projects... > > Great. So contribute something. Put your money where your mouth is. > So far all we've heard is a lot of talk. > > Oh, and for the record, all these changes WERE developed, signaled, > and coordinated in CVS. I guess you weren't paying attention. > > > Yes, we agree that E is a critical application, that's a way for us > > to better distinguish it from non-critical application. For example > > applications that don't creates user annoyance when they don't work > > or applications that can easyly be updated without notice to user. > > If E is a critical application for you, it's your responsibility to > keep up with changes. If you're not prepared to get help during an or if its so critical - DONT keep up. use what you have - keep using it, NEVER upgrade. then changes will NOT happen - guarantee :) "if it ain't broke - don't fix it". if thats your situation - then stick to it! :) > upgrade, you have two choices: Keep up, or Don't upgrade. That's > it. And whichever one you choose is your responsibility. > > > an application that I don't consider critical and that you would > > upgrade without the above concerns, is for example a computer script > > language interpreter, well designed, but not as well as it's > > designer would like to... and that's get update with a big change > > in the language syntax. What would think users that have already > > written tons of scripts ? > > Clearly your reasoning is skewed. It's far more important for > scripting languages to deal with backward compatibility than it is for > window managers. > > > That's said in the battle between Light & Darkness, between Law and > > Chaos, we don't want either side to win. > > Seek. Professional. Help. > > Michael > > -- > Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Three six nine, the goose drank wine; the monkey chewed tobacco on > the street car line. The line broke, the monkey got choked, and > they all went to heaven in a little row boat." -- Nursery Rhyme > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. 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