On Monday 17 December 2018  06:49, [email protected] wrote :
> I am more than willing to take charge of this if Bieber is ok with it.
> 
> If we containerize things cant we go with a secure and stable super long
> term support distro like centos? Correct me if I am wrong each docker
> container is its own mini distro right or am I incorrect in that
> understanding?

Yes, use a stable distrib as host (CentOS/Debian), and sit Ubuntu dockers upon 
it.

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Simon Lees <[email protected]> 
> Sent: 17 December 2018 03:07
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [E-devel] Server/Gitlab/Etc... and our servers/sysadmins
> routinely letting us down.
> 
> 
> 
> On 15/12/2018 22:59, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Thu, 13 Dec 2018 11:36:55 -0600 Stephen Houston <[email protected]>
> said:
> > 
> >> A few months ago Mike set up  a test instance of gitlab on a server 
> >> for us... After testing and the like, I set up a slowvote on Phab 
> >> that covered
> >> 4 options:
> >>
> >> Gitlab with new infra
> >> Gitlab with current infra
> >> Phab with new infra
> >> Phab with current infra
> >>
> >> The overwhelming support was for new infra.  As in every single vote 
> >> except for one wanted new infra.  The majority also wanted gitlab, 
> >> but for the sake of this email, that is irrelevant.
> >>
> >> The arguments against new infra, having it sponsored, cloud, etc... 
> >> keep being that if someone leaves the project, or the owners of the 
> >> servers changes, or policies change, or etc... that we might lose 
> >> access.  To me this seems like an incredibly poor argument right now 
> >> especially considering that we have been experiencing this very thing 
> >> and even worse with our own current infra.  The problems I have seen are
> that we:
> > 
> > there was an offer for new corporate sponsored infra. you have no idea 
> > how close things were to that infra just vanishing a few weeks ago if 
> > it had been used. we'd be back to begging for someone else to provide 
> > it or everyone having to pony up and pay for some hosting and have 
> > given up osuosl who have served us well (when you know the details).
> > 
> >> A. Failed at maintaining the physical aspects of our server.
> > 
> > i personally ordered 2 replacement drives for our server recently(ish) 
> > and i care. i had hoped people physically closer would handle things 
> > first, but that didn't happen, so i did. there are other issues which 
> > i'm sorting through and have been blocked by other configuration issues.
> > 
> >> B. Keep having continued downtime over and over and over again.
> > 
> > actually we don't. we had downtime because of a software configuration 
> > issue for years regarding qemu and logging. this would have happened 
> > anywhere with any infra if we used vm's and had the same setup.
> > 
> >> C. Can never get in touch with or get a response from our server 
> >> admin in any kind of remotely adequate timeframe.
> > 
> > admin, server+hosting and what runs on them are different matters. 
> > conflating them all is a bad idea.
> > 
> > this is why our infra needs multiple hands from multiple people 
> > involved so there is always a backup. that is what i want to happen 
> > with e5 once its back up. it has to be easier to manage remotely for 
> > people who are not full-time looking at the system and know it 
> > backwards. so system has to be pretty boring and "standard" as 
> > possible. it may be less secure as a result but that's better than not
> having multiple hands making light work.
> > 
> >> Insanity is often said to be defined as doing the same thing over and 
> >> over again expecting a different result.  It is time to have an open 
> >> mind to the needs/wants of this community and make a change.
> > 
> > we just had a near fatal miss above AND osuosl have done a great job 
> > over the years. they have more recently been locked out of helping out 
> > much (the ipmi thing as well as server access to OS has not been given 
> > to them like a working account with root access).
> > 
> > the current e.org is not even running inside osuosl. it's a temporary 
> > server meant for "getting containers set up on our original server inside
> osuosl".
> > that has not happened after 1.5 years. i'm, not interested i going 
> > into blame or what should have been done when or by who. i do want to 
> > say that i consider beber a friend and he has done a lot of work over 
> > the years and invested his time and effort and more and i totally respect
> that.
> > 
> > now that temporary server runs somewhere only beber knows about right 
> > now and since it seems the host had physical problems, only he can do 
> > anything about that. i couldn't ssh in and do anything - no access was 
> > possible for me. this temporary machine is e6.
> > 
> > the osuosl machine (e5). is up and working but 1 drive isn't 
> > responding. fixing this has been delayed because ipmi access has not 
> > worked for me since the day this machine was set up, nor has it worked 
> > for osuosl - they have been unable to access console and do the basic 
> > power up/down etc. without physically walking into the server room.
> > 
> > i have actually figured out why it doesn't work just today... it was a 
> > very simple thing and never should/would have happened if there had 
> > been a little less paranoia :), i spent a lot of time today getting 
> > impicfg installed and working so i could update the user config. 
> > suffice to say that gentoo made this an absolute chore. i learned a 
> > lot more about how gentoo works and my opinions of it have gone 
> > downhill, not uphill as a result. i won't go into details as those are 
> > not relevant. what is relevant is that gentoo is not the kind of OS to use
> as a server hosting environment IMHO.
> > 
> > so as e5 is currently not in service but it runs as a machine just 
> > with 1 drive out of a raid array gone missing thanks to the sata
> controller/connection.
> > 
> > i have asked osuosl to try the other drive bays with the replacement 
> > hdd i ordered and other connectors etc. etc. to find one of the others 
> > that hopefully works. when (they hopefully) do, i can bring up the full
> array again.
> > 
> > at this point i think it's time to just re-install e5. with an easier 
> > to maintain OS as host and then set things up more simply within it. 
> > i'll get to this as soon as i know what is the status with this 
> > hdd/sata thing and that was pending ipmi access which i just fixed. we 
> > could just use 2 of the 4 drives we have as a redundant raid rather than
> raid10 and we'd be fine.
> > 
> > all of this is separate and not related to phab or gitlab or what 
> > things run on top. i am disinterested in changing any of that at all 
> > until the lower layers are put back into good shape. we need some kind 
> > of vm like thing to run as thigns like e's screenshot service relies 
> > on this. that means e5 is back with a simpler and easier to manage 
> > setup and we can get our existing services running there again. THEN we
> can consider what to change.
> > 
> > we have e1 and e2 running for man years without issues. no vm's. no 
> > fancy setups. just ubuntu that got a dist upgrade every now and again. 
> > it worked well. time to go back to something more akin to that.
> > 
> 
> I tend to agree with this, when I voted we should redo our infra it was less
> a we should move it somewhere else and more a we should redo it to be
> something slightly more sane. Idealy we should containerize and automate the
> new setup so we could deploy the containers anywhere should we have to, but
> personally I don't have time to do that.
> 
> Where gitlab etc comes into it now is if we still have enough of a setup
> running to migrate, it may make sense to rebuild a new setup with gitlab or
> whatever we change to if were changing.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Simon Lees (Simotek)                            http://simotek.net
> 
> Emergency Update Team                           keybase.io/simotek
> SUSE Linux                           Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
> GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
> 
> 
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--- Hell'O from Yverdoom

Jérémy (jeyzu)


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