On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 09:33:14 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri <vto...@univ-evry.fr> said:
> > > On Sun, 30 Jan 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > > On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 08:43:22 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri <vto...@univ-evry.fr> > > said: > > > >> > >> > >> On Sun, 30 Jan 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > >> > >>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:31:31 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri > >>> <vto...@univ-evry.fr> said: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 14:30:24 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri > >>>>> <vto...@univ-evry.fr> said: > >>>>> > >>>>> never used it. never have used it. any new tool WILL result in there > >>>>> being errors. so you're a bit optimistic. > >>>> > >>>> It's not a new tool (you didn't even check when it has been written > >>>> otherwise you would not say that). > >>> > >>> it's a new tool - i had to apt-get install it. hell - it isnt even obvious > >>> as to HOW to use it. > >>> > >>> moap changelog ... now what? diiff? > >> > >> did you ever read my mails ????? I sent several mails about that. I > >> already said HOW to use it ! > > > > no - because i have an inbox with 20,000 mails just for e-devel. you think > > i'm going to search through it when i can fix the problem with just quickly > > editing the text file? the problem is solved. done. i spend more effort > > replying to you than it takes to edit the cahngelog AND fix the problem > > > >>> what has a diff got to do with a changelog? > >>> checkin? checkin files LISTED in the changelog wtf? it wants to force us > >>> to LISt SPECIFIC FILES changed? hell no. changelog != svn log. > >> > >> SO AGAIN, if you are too lazy to read the README file, and if you have > >> ever read correctly my mails, you would have seen the link of that README: > > > > again - so much more work. when a tool takes more work to hunt down docs and > > use and figure out than to do it the manual way... then that tool loses its > > usefulness. what you propose is that we REPLACE using svn with moap for > > doing commits - thats the ONLY way it works. and the ONLY reason is the > > changelog file. i find that a very weak argument for replacing a tool that > > has been used and worked for YEARS. sure - it wraps it - but it complicates > > development anc changes workflow for the sake of 1 single file. you get > > very upset over that 1 file. you need to calm down. you suddenly expect > > everyone to go change the way they have done things for many years > > "suddenly" ??? I mentioned maop years ago. Just search in the ML > archive... you suggested it be used. you now are SUDDENLY jumping up and down as if everyone has been violating some set of rules that you have laid down and have been followed for years. you are making some big thing out of this.. your mails are along the lines of "maybe we should consider using this". you now behave as if the decision was made long ago and anyone not using it.. how dare they not use it and is violating some rule. > > overnight to a tool YOU love you use. all > > for the sake of a changelog. moap doesnt magically figure out who submitted > > the patch. it doesnt magically fix everything. it doesnt magically ensure > > changelogs are maintained as people can not use it. you need to calm down. > > iyts JUST a changelog file. its paperwork. its bureaucracy. it doesn't > > materially affect the object. people aren't adding bugs or making this > > slow, or leak... its a paperwork file. you are getting upset over > > paperwork. you need to calm down ad accept the fact that paperwork and > > tools to fill in paperwork are not worth getting upset over. > > ok, i calm down... But you'll see plenty of commits whitout a changelog > update (when needed) in the near future if we are not more strict. On the > 4 first commits that needed an updated changelog, 3 committers have > forgotten to update the changelog. and getting a group of people to suddenly move to some new tool doesnt happen overnight.. and even then a new tool doesnt fix it all - as you said yourself - you have to EDIT the changelog - remove things like the list of files it has etc. etc. etc. - i have yet to even try it out because it requires there to be changes to even use and test out. just calm down. it's JUSt a changelog file. we want it kept up to date. it wont hurt not to be maintained perfectly on every commit. this problem is not a tool problem. tools HELP, but its a human problem. people need to work in a different mindset - one that is more concerned with stability, good docs and compatibility. thats the issue at hand. moap is just a small tool along the way. it's not worth getting too up tight about. it does not lend itself to instant-use. i'm busy with enough things not to want to instantly jump tools one day just because you make an issue of it. things take time. so chill - have a beer, and lets have things settle. -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! 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