2015-05-19 23:46 GMT+02:00 Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com>: > On Tue, 19 May 2015 14:40:03 +0200 Cedric BAIL <cedric.b...@free.fr> said: > > > On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 4:53 AM, Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com> > > wrote: > > > On Sun, 17 May 2015 09:36:44 +0200 Davide Andreoli < > d...@gurumeditation.it> > > > said: > > >> 2015-05-15 19:50 GMT+02:00 Cedric BAIL <moa.blueb...@gmail.com>: > > >> > Le 15 mai 2015 16:26, "jiin.moon" <jiin.m...@samsung.com> a écrit : > > >> > > > > >> > > hermet pushed a commit to branch master. > > >> > > > >> > > http://git.enlightenment.org/core/elementary.git/commit/?id=e707aa3efb0b4a0b7d6169755075a9943793e4f5 > > >> > > > > >> > > commit e707aa3efb0b4a0b7d6169755075a9943793e4f5 > > >> > > Author: jiin.moon <jiin.m...@samsung.com> > > >> > > Date: Fri May 15 23:09:41 2015 +0900 > > >> > > > > >> > > elementary: Create new widget for image masking > > >> > > > > >> > > Summary: > > >> > > For now, if apply image mask to smart obejct, masking does > not work > > >> > except to implement in edc file. > > >> > > @feature > > >> > > > > >> > > Reviewers: Jaehyun_Cho, Jaehyun, jpeg, raster, cedric, Hermet > > >> > > > > >> > > Subscribers: raster, jpeg, cedric > > >> > > > > >> > > Projects: #elementary > > >> > > > >> > As per my comment during review this brash all the concept of efl, > edge > > >> > and elementary for no good reason. It should not have landed. If you > > >> > want to implement theme in c do it properly by providing a virtual > edje > > >> > file that impotent a group in c. > > >> > > > >> > > >> I totally agree with you Cedric, this widget make no sense, break the > > >> themability of apps and increase the number of widgets for no good > > >> reason > > > > > > i think this is where a disconnect is. the people DONT WANT A THEMABLE > APP. > > > the request for this comes from developers who are given and EXACT UI > > > design for an app and must follow EXACTLY THAT. the app is not EVER > > > themable. they don't want it to be. > > > > By people, you mean a certain class of developers. The same people who > > wanted Disk Selector I am sure. > > yes. they do happen to be probably our largest userbase atm. you can ignore > them if you like... > > > > as per my comment. forcing people to learn edc, edje etc. just to do > > > something simple raises the bar and learning curve, forcing them to do > > > something they don't even need or want (to make their app themable), > and > > > thus just drives unhappiness and complaints on "efl is so hard. i hate > > > it.". imho edje (edC) is an advanced topic and developers shouldn't be > > > FORCED into it if all they want is to, for example, mask their images > with > > > a circle. A widget that simply does this for them in a simple way > "point to > > > circle image for the mask and point to the image to be masked by it), > and > > > that's it - saves a lot of time and headaches for them. > > > > I agree with you, but logically if they need so much that mask in > > there app, that means it should be part of the design of the theme > > they use on that device. If that is not the case and every application > > want to have a custom looking theme and they still don't want to learn > > edc to do their own theme. The logical solution is for us to provide a > > "virtual edje" that make it possible to implement a paint callback the > > way they want in C without making elementary an inconsistent toolkit > > (to say the least). > > that is a totally different thing. it shouldn't stop a "simple solution" > being > there. > > > > if you want to ake your logic further, then elm shouldn't have table, > or box > > > objects - edje can do this. in fact it doesn't need buttons, because > edje > > > can do this. same with checkboxes or radio buttons, sliders. why have > any > > > widgets at all - we can just do it all in edje with edc files? > > > > Yeah, pushing the logic to absurdity that a good point. Elementary is > > a skinnable toolkit. Edje is used to define that skin, not the > > behavior. You are just throwing a bigger insane argument just to force > > us to stay silent, but that doesn't make our point wrong. With your > > logic we should dump all edje code from elementary and use evas > > directly, because edje is to hard. So back to the topic... > > no - my point is your position is too far the other way - force people > into edc > far more often than they need to. > > > > this is just trying to force people to do something they don't need or > want > > > to do. it's their choice here. if they don't want it themable - then > that > > > is their choice. in fact you are not going to change that choice. the > > > choice is made by ui designers already who do not WANT things > themmable. > > > they want things to be pixel-for-pixel exactly as designed and not > able to > > > be changed. > > > > > > WE here want themable. we want flexible. we wn users to be able to > re-skin > > > their apps all over the place, but others do not. > > > > I know, but until now we have tried pretty hard to address the goal of > > both project correctly (Except for a few widget that should not have > > entered into elementary at all, but at least they are themable). Here > > you are forcing a useless widget inside Elementary that if used by any > > it's not useless. it's useful for when i want to mask obj A by obj B and > not > have to bother with an edc file, an extra .edj file, compile/find/install > this > data file at runtime etc. - it cuts down work for a developer for a simple > case. it doesn't really add a lot of burden because it isnt "another > widget we > have to theme" for a theme to cover all of efl - it is pretty simple. it > saves > work for a simple "common" case. is it not the job of a toolkit to do this? > reduce work? >
yes, the job is to reduce work, but also guide the user to do the right thing :) Also using an image to make a mask is not really a simple/fast task: you need to draw a good mask in gimp, install the resource, find at runtime, etc... not really different than an edje file. But this is not really my point, indeed also write and edc to just have "rouded corner" is not an optimal solution. If, as I understand, the goal is just the "rouded corner" effect, why then not just provide one (or more) styles for an existing widget? (elm_frame?) Again, if the goal is that kind of effect, than forcing a developer to draw/install/find a mask image seems silly to me, all apps will end up with the same (hopefully) mask image file distributed tons of time. > > > application will make it impossible to change theme. That we will have > > to maintain forever. While they could put that into one of their > > specific library and ditch it like they do every 3 months. They > > already have such a library to put all this "helper" in. I don't see a > > good reason to take on the burden of something that is short-sighted > > here. You have said it clearly, it doesn't match Elementary design and > > goal at all, so it shouldn't be here. > > -- > > Cedric BAIL > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud > > Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications > > Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights > > Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. > > http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y > > _______________________________________________ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > -- > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud > Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications > Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights > Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
