Raster, If you read the post instead of getting your hackles up whenever you hear the name "AMD/ATI" you'd have noticed he was using the OSS driver. In your opinion, is the OSS radeon driver itself so bad?
You've got a definite problem with people disagreeing with your opinion, and in some cases there are people who don't have a choice about what laptop they receive from the boss! Be realistic, and if you don't want to support AMD GPUs AT ALL, then state so openly in the enlightenment documentation! Don't say it's officially supported but then come down hard on anyone who calls you on it, that's not just being childish, it's being downright dishonest. And you're baiting flamewars by not coming out on the position officially. So, yeah, FGLRX sucks, we all agree, and nobody who asks your help uses it anymore. Done. Write it up that E will never be supported on FGLRX, that way complaints about it stop. Easy as that. Now as for the OSS driver, if, in fact, there is a bug in the radeon code, THAT IS WORTH INVESTIGATING! Whether the bug is on your side, or radeon's side! By jumping down people's throats whenever they ask for help using the OSS driver, you're not just discouraging people from using E, you're also potentially throwing away a good opportunity for the radeon guys to find bugs in their code if it's not in yours! Yes, you're a genius writing E, and we all appreciate the work you've done on it, but your attitude with people coming to the user's mailing list asking for help with a legitimate complaint about a bug with all OSS software and drivers is dowright hostile! If you want to be mean to people, join a boxing or martial arts club, you'll get all that hatred out of your system there and maybe, just maybe, you'll find the internet has one less enraged project leader. I'm not saying people yelling at you is fun and should be tolerated, but reading through this particular topic I've not seen any particularly hostile attacks on you or your code beyond the fact that there's a bug when using the OSS radeon driver. If you can't accept that even 'O great master raster' occasionally has bugs in his code, or that other projects do and that E doesn't handle them as gracefully as KDE or Gnome, well, that's another problem, but not one I expect to be realistic since you've had a rather civilized and efficient team helping you with E for a long time. *rant against hate in my inbox over* Goeland, long time E-user On 11.12.2013 13:54, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 12:30:35 +0200 Alan McKinnon <alan.mckin...@gmail.com> > said: > > actually i had a longer reply, but i'll just keep it short. > > so in "alan mckinnon land" it's perfectly fine to tell people offering advice > based on direct experience to "stfu" when they disagree with you (you seem to > like radeons because you actively chose to have a boatload of money spent on a > system tied to one), but telling them to "stfu" - only opinions that you > approve of allowed (lest they reflect badly!), but your usage of that > expletive > (it's not exactly hidden), is totally maintaining the high-ground there and > having no reflection at all? > > a very interesting land you live in there. very interesting. > > p.s. i never said the gpu's were bad. you really should read better. i said > "it's a bad idea to have an ati gpu". the gpu begets the drivers which beget a > system hard-lock when used "as advertised". but how dare i have an opinion on > that, even given personal experience to the tune of having wasted my own > personal $3000 (not company money) on a machine not that far back, and the > fact > that i have actively practiced my solution to the problem (avoided ati gpus) > for > years, and it's worked wonders for me. > > p.p.s. a radeon 7850 is a desktop model gpu. read the original mail. the 7850m > is the mobile version for laptops (normally). sure - he could have been loose > with his wording, but given the wording the original poster never indicated > the > gpu was not easily replaceable and the information given indicates it could > be. > >> On 11/12/2013 10:45, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: >>> On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 08:45:12 +0200 Alan McKinnon <alan.mckin...@gmail.com> >>> said: >>> >>>> On 11/12/2013 01:50, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:07:37 -0500 Christopher Barry >>>>> <christopher.r.ba...@gmail.com> said: >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 14:35:59 +0900 >>>>>> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> ...snip... >>>>>>>> I read on another thread you saying e18 is actually less bleeding >>>>>>>> edge than e17. Do you suggest running the e18 branch to gain more >>>>>>>> stability? >>>>>>> i would say its rock solidly stable. it works better than e17. it >>>>>>> should also use less memory (when compositing). e18 has no choice >>>>>>> there though. you composite like it or not. :) >>>>>>> >>>>>> ... >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm using e17.3 from SID, with composite and opengl off (it crashes >>>>>> my box very hard if switched on, and I must delete ~/.e to be able to >>>>>> restart enlightenment again). I have a Radeon HD 7850. Would it be a >>>>>> bad idea for me to upgrade to e18 since composite is always on? >>>>> i'd say it's a bad idea to have an ati gpu at all. there's your root >>>>> cause. ;] >>>> >>>> That doesn't help people with laptops and ATI gpu's >>> you can just get a different laptop. it's not that hard. :) >> Yes it is that hard. This isn't a throw-away netbook or a tablet that >> comes free with a phone contract. >> >> This laptop is a Dell M4600 Precision and it's maxed out, 16G RAM, 128G >> SSD, 500G HDD and 2nd Gen i7. It costs a goddamn fortune and the company >> paid for it. I can't just "get another one because some arb dude called >> raster on the intartubes has a thing about ATI". >> >> >>>> I know you don't like ATI but you can't ignore that it exists, and >>>> making statements like you just like looks very bad on the project you >>>> lead. >>> if your gpu driver causes your system to hard-lock... i would say the >>> problem is entirely out of our hands. your gpu driver has a major major >>> major bug. >> I replied to your post where you said ATI makes crap gpus. But this >> sentence is about drivers. So what is the problematic element? The >> hardware or ATI's fglrx driver? >> >> I don't use fglrx, I run OSS radeon. The reason I don't use fglrx is >> because I can't figure the damn thing out but I ordered the hardware >> knowing in advance the radeon OSS drivers works just fine. >> >> >>> if someone said "your software causes a kernel hard-lock every time it >>> writes a >> [snip fglrx rant] >> >> >> Yes, I know all of that. You are very vocal in your opinion about fglrx. >> I just think your blanket statement about get another gpu are >> unrealistic in real life, and reflect badly on the project as a whole. >> >> Maybe tone done the rhetoric a touch, or stfu on the matter, or issue a >> policy statement as to what the project supports that doesn't leave a >> whole segment out in the cold. >> >> Most folks I know would just give up on e and install KDE rather than >> try figure out how to wangle an ATI card and an nVidia one in. Like I >> said, this here gpu is embedded. >> >> -- >> Alan McKinnon >> alan.mckin...@gmail.com >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT >> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance >> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your >> Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics >> Pro! >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> enlightenment-users mailing list >> enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. 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