----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Vern:: My experience with Ercoupes/Aircoupes began quite a few years ago, and I did have a claim denied based on information originally found by an FAA inspector acting as a representative of the NTSB. All the information that was discovered was based on MY purchase as an aircraft owner of an "aftermarket" metal gascolator bowl with quick drain, from Wag Aero. The device was not approved for use on an Ercoupe 415-C (which is sold with a glass bowl) and the fact that the adhesive that held in the quick drain was soluble in gasoline caused the quick drain to fall out in flight, draining the header tank in short order, which resulted in an unsuccessful off airport landing! Wag Aero still sells the part and were not considered at fault for selling me the part, as they never specified that any parts they sold were FAA/PMA parts! The mechanic received a $750 fine and was suspended for 60 days after a long and expensive hearing. He remained my dear friend and Mechanic until his death 3 years ago. After this fiasco I purchased an Alon from a former stunt man in Santa Monica, CA. It had been parked at the same spot for 14 years, so My friend and I went over that airplane with a fine tooth comb. I gave the stunt dude his money and took off over the Santa Monica Mountains headed north toward Salinas, I found the compass would not point any direction but East, the radio signal barely got to the end of the antenna, and the VOR searched for a signal for the entire 300 mile trip home. I was so ecstatic that I didn't really care, we made it all right! My mechanic (Same one) started looking my new dreamboat over the next morning and found a little sluggishness in the control movement. That's when he found that 1 aileron was entirely filled with Bondo (it weighed 40 pounds) and the other was pretty much rusted through on the steel control horn mounting bracket. First purchase new ailerons! My point is, even with recent knowledge of judgment errors on my part in evaluating the airworthiness of a specific airplane, I still missed a Huge mistake. and it could have caused serious difficulties. Makes a guy think twice about his decision making abilities! Someday I'll tell you what happened to my first Ercoupe that started all this! Wayne Woollard ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 4:33 AM Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Paperwork > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > advice in this forum.]---- > > > > > > > I think the issue is wider than this, the law and regulations are there to > protect us all not just the current owner of a Coupe, we recently did the > on-line survey about our ages and the sad truth is that we are as a group > about as old as our aircraft and worse yet most of our Coupes will out > last > many of us. This means in most cases that we must sell our Coupe to the > next guy and he has the right to expect that for the last sixty plus years > the maintenance and modifications that have been done were all done to a > very high standard so that he can safely fly the Coupe by only having the > next annual inspection done and complying with any new AD's. > > I like this concept very much and think this is a very good reason for all > Coupes to be maintained correctly in accordance with the regulations so > that when some fine young eagle who gets a ride from one of us and is bit > by the flying bug may one day when he or she can afford it purchase a > Coupe > and enjoy it as much as many of us do with out having to have it restored > from the ground up to be sure that we did not do any funny maintenance > that > may kill them. > > I have a Coupe now that will have to have the tail cone replaced because > someone thought that they could do a repair on it that is not very sound > and is not documented, it does come complete with several pounds of bondo > and it will need to be replaced before I will fly it. I do not know who > did > the poor work but I do think of it as a fraud and would like to have > several hours to use a cattle prod on the person responsible. > > Best regards, > Vern > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > .com > To > 05/14/2005 02:10 [email protected] > PM cc > > Subject > Please respond to Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Paperwork > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > .com > > > > > > > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > advice in this forum.]---- > > > I'm not sure if the subject of my part of this discussion is good and bad > mods or ones that make sense and ones that don't. I'm pointing toward the > legalities of doing certain things, the modifications and the methods used > to accomplish them. The clock/spar? It reminds me of the same thing, the > "clock" example being one side of the fence that is as far away from the > spar example as you can get, but a fraud - sorry, no! My point is that > what > is written as law, is law and it is done so for a reason. Do I agree with > it? Well, most of the time, but the other most of the time I wonder why > we > must sit amidst 1940's technology with no apparent light at the end of the > tunnel. I'm not an engineer, nor have I recently stayed in a Holiday Inn, > so I don't think I'm qualified enough to make a decision whether to use a > bolt from Home Depot or cut a hole in a part of the airplane that was > designed to be structure in a manner that contradicts actual professional > common practices. At this point in time I do not have the authority to > determine whether or not a particular FAA ruling applies to everyone else > but me. Perhaps old Saddam can get away with interpreting the laws the > way > he sees fit, but even then it caught up to him. And yes, if the speed > limit > in a school zone is 25 mph, at 26 mph you're in violation. Will you get a > ticket? Probably not, but I know most sensible people will agree with me > when I say that if you do receive a ticket, it is not a "fraud". > > Rules and regs are written for a reason. We're lucky enough to live in a > country where we can attempt to change them if we like. Until they're > changed, you must respect them and try to understand why they're in place. > As far as those laws are concerned, installation of a clock without the > proper paperwork is the same as a spar splice without any paperwork. In > real life if either fail, one can get you killed, the other in a bit of > trouble with the wife, which may be worse. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Q. Steinman, PhD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 5:00 PM > Subject: RE: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Paperwork > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > advice in this forum.]---- > > > Your comment remind me of those who believe that zero tolerance > makes good sense, when in fact zero tolerance means zero brains. There is > no > substitute for common sense. I would say the difference between a clock > and > a spar is fraud. > > > > Robert Q. Steinman, Ph.D. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:43 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Paperwork > > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > advice in this forum.]---- > > > > > > Richard; > > > > That's grand fodder for a very good discussion. I'm surprised that your > > airplane can even get off the ground with a clock not certificated for the > > Ercoupe. ;-) But let's not go to those extremes. How about a wing spar > > that has been spliced together, no records or docs? Flies fine doesn't > it? > > Wouldn't you like to know about it when you're buying? Has your own IA > > checked the seat belts for AD's? That's what an annual is all about! > What > > about some mechanic changing a mag without documenting it? An AD comes > > along that you don't think affects you and it spits up (or in) chunks one > > day. Same goes about those unapproved fuel pump repair kits that are > > probably just as good ad the high priced spread. How do you know if the > > baggage compartment that's in there w/o paperwork will hold your pilot bag > > or fall through on top of the control cables? What about that bubble > > windshield without the paperwork? Was it really installed in the manner > > that was listed on the STC? There are many scenarios that could be valid > as > > well as ridiculous. On one side have you ever heard about the guys > putting > > MOPAR pistons in the C85's? Talk about hot rods! > > > > On the other is the clock. Have there been 40 years of bad mechanics? In > a > > word, well - - - -! Good technicians obviously, but the job's not done > > until the paperwork is completed. Can an IA inspect the work performed > > previously and submit the paperwork. Absolutely, but unfortunately it'll > be > > on your nickel. For too long these little airplanes have gotten minimal > or > > pencil inspections, and in the very near future, after a few do fall out > of > > the sky with Sport Pilots at the helm, the party is going to be over. > > > > Bottom line guys, my first airplane was a coupe as was my second, fourth > and > > sixth (in restoration, now). The third and fifth were/are Bonanzas. Big > > difference in prices of everything, but I learned the value of a good > > inspection and proper documentation. Don't fall into a bad habit by > > sneaking one over on your IA. Get that documentation taken care of, it'll > > show pride in ownership and increase the value of that airplane. And > NEVER > > buy an aircraft without a prebuy. > > > > Al > > Always willing to tell you what you don't expect to hear. Isn't that > right, > > B? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard Wilkens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:08 PM > > Subject: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Paperwork > > > > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > > advice in this forum.]---- > > > > > > You know we haven't had lively discussion on this list in years, so let's > > start one. > > > > We just had a member use the following phase ".Too many Ercoupes have poor > > paperwork, undocumented mods." > > > > As many of you know I collect Ercoupe records and have probability read as > > many individual Ercoupe FAA airworthiness records as anyone. Take for > > example the clock in the middle of my panel, I think it was put there in > > 1965, but there is no 337 for it. Oh dear the world will come to an > > end! Our Leader will be unhappy! In the 17 years I have had my Coupe not > a > > single AP has said anything about it. Does that mean the 16 annuals I > have > > had were done by BAD APs? (That would mean ten out of ten APs I have used > > over the years are all bad. If we go back the full 40 years since the > > clock was put in, who knows how many bad APs have worked on my Coupe. That > > even includes Skyport--many years before John owned it.) > > > > When I flow 904 over an 11,000 foot pass with the ceiling low enough you > > couldn't see the top of the mountains, I didn't care that the clock > doesn't > > have a 337 on file with the FAA. What I cared about is that my AP just > > finished an annual and 904 was running great with all gauges in the > > green. If I had put it into the mountain that day, do you think the FAA > > would have checked for the 337 on my clock? > > > > I have noticed reading FAA airworthiness files all one has to do is ask > his > > current AP to check the installation of the "mods" and they will file a > 337 > > for the "mod" saying "I have inspected the previously installed 'mod' and > > it was done in accordance with FAA rule XXXX.xxx." So what is the big > > deal? I don't think that because the FAA doesn't have a piece of paper on > > file makes an airplane something to worry about or "...pay scrap > > prices...". If you have bad paperwork and want scrap prices give me a > call, > > I have money in the bank. > > > > I firmly agree with one letter I read in a FAA registration file. The guy > > was having a problem getting his registration done with the FAA. He wrote > > them saying something like "If you don't send me the registration, my > > airplane will fly just as well without it." > > > > Richard > > N99904 > > > > > > > > ========================================================================== == > > > == > > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================== == > > == > > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.9 - Release Date: 5/12/2005 > > > > > > > _____ > > << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 99957 Spam messages and set aside > 6479 Newsletters for me > You can use it too - and it's FREE! HYPERLINK > "http://www.ellaforspam.com"www.ellaforspam.com > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.9 - Release Date: 5/12/2005 > > > ========================================================================== == > > == > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > > > > > ========================================================================== ==== > > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > > > > > ========================================================================== ==== > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > > > ========================================================================== ==== To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/
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