Hi Bill,
Agree 100% with your comments (and John's).
I wish to apologize to you and to all who may have "received" my post
in a form that makes it difficult to separate my comments from the
original posting.
Here it is again, with my comments are separated by spaces...I'm
concerned that if I rely on bold type or color that, too, may not
clarify for those who receive TECH posts in "plain text"
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈
Comments interspersed below.
WRB
--
On Jun 30, 2010, at 13:46, Christopher Koch wrote:
Dear Linda,
While CAR 3 and 4a do not specify any burn or flammability standards
(for example, see CAR 3 below)...
The FAA specific standard is FAR 25.853 (a) & Appendix F Part I (a)
(1) (ii)...
There is still some confusion on the part of your FSDO office, A&P and
A&P IA on this subject.
There is no confusion whatsoever. Under applicable rules and
regulations, no "burn certifications" are applicable or pertinent to
aircraft certificated under CAR 3 or 4a.
I recently attended the annual all day FSDO A&P IA refresher course
and this was the first topic covered. The basic scenario presented to
the A&P IAs in attendance by the FAA was "You are performing an Annual
and you check out the interior on a CAR 3 or 4a airplane only to
discover a newly upholstered interior (any or all seats, side panels,
rugs, ceiling). You request the burn certs for each material as they
are obviously not the original materials installed when the plane was
built. The plane owner is unable to produce them. Do you sign off
the airplane Annual placing the airworthiness liability squarely on
your shoulders?" The final answer was left up to each A&P IA.
That's because even the FAA does not have the authority to mandate that
which is not specifically required.
Refurbishing these interior materials is an allowable log book
activity for the airplane's owner just like changing the engine oil
and filter.
There is no ambiguity here, whatsoever.
Due to the ambiguities of interpretation,
Personal interpretation: So as to avoid any possible danger to my
certificate or personal financial future...
I make certain that I have all the burn certificates for each material
in the aircraft records, just as if the airplane was type certificated
under FAR 23 rather than CAR 3 or 4a.
Personal observation: And so, once again, an owner/pilot is denied
his/her RIGHT to refurbish interior materials within applicable
regulations by an A&P or IA willing to blackmail them by holding the
aircraft hostage...by withholding the necessary certificated "sign-off"
of an annual inspection. The owner can't even repossess their own
aircraft and take it elsewhere for a "second opinion" because it
"unairworthy" until financial tribute is paid and "right" yields to
"might.
The owner's single to avoid such a situation is to be aware of how
pervasive this mentality is, and discussing the subject at length with
the shop AND the mechanic before proceeding. The shop OR mechanic
understand the regulations and jargon much better than you, and may
tell you the "truth" you want to hear and the "whole truth". There is
no amount of personal knowledge that will protect an owner if they do
not respect them enough to be "honest" up front and deal with them in
good faith. One or more witnesses to such a conversation can be good
"insurance" before an annual is authorized to commence. There are NO
"guarantees".
As far as requiring a "No Smoking" sign to meet CAR 3 requirements,
please also consider that directly over your knees is a gasoline tank
- ON YOUR SIDE of the firewall !!!
If I recall correctly, that tank was in precisely the same place in all
Ercoupes produced under 4a certification. The presence or absence of
the placard does not change the flammability of gasoline. No placard
can convey common sense to pilots or mechanics lacking it.
Yours,
Chris Koch
Buffalo, NY
CAR 3 Personnel and Cargo Accommodations
§ 3.393 Ventilation. All passenger and crew compartments shall be
suitably ventilated. Carbon monoxide concentration shall not exceed 1
part in 20,000 parts of air.
If an Ercoupe exhaust system develops a fatigue crack in flight and
carbon monoxide poisioning incapacitates the pilot and the aircraft
crashes, here's one way bureaucratic reasoning could unfold:
1. An autopsy (or skin color) will confirm that carbon monoxide in
high concentration is in the pilot's tissues and blood.
2. The actual cause of the crash was a concentration of carbon
monoxide in the cabin in excess of that allowable in an airworthy
aircraft.
3. The pilot did not possess or demonstrate the level of preflight
clairvoyance obviously necessary in hindsight because a crash occurred.
4. Since the deceased pilot was operating an aircraft that was not
airworthy while under his/her command and control, the pilot's
subsequent inability to avoid uncontrolled descent into terrain is
incontrovertible evidence of pilot error as proximate cause.
Postlude: The insurance company is not obligated to for either loss of
the aircraft or damages arising out of its untimely return to earth
because continued airworthiness is a necessary precedent to purchased
coverage. ;<)
Hey Ed, could you suggest a standard" that might help with this problem?
WRB
--
On Jun 30, 2010, at 17:12, Bill BIGGS wrote:
Bill,
I belive your comment to have a good relationship with your mechanic
and IA before the fact is critical. Discuss with them the issues
BEFORE you commit to them doing the annual. Thay have no authority to
"ground" your airplane based on conversation, and would be open for
litigation if they tried.
I would HIGHLY reccomend you find an IA that will let you do an
"owner assisted" annual, You will have a much better understanding of
your airplane and should be much cheaper,(unless of course you are one
of those who just wants to fly and pay the bills)
Find an IA and stick with him, no sense in paying for a learning
curve every year.
An interesting side note is that while a C or CD does not
specifically require a no smoking sign, TCDS-718 requires one if you
convert to a D (see Note 3 at bottom)
(h) "No Smoking" placard should be included in the cabin.
And TCDS A-787:
A. Models ERCO 415-D, E, G, Forney F-1, F-1A
(1) On instrument panel in full view of the pilot:
(a) "This airplane must be operated as a Normal Category airplane in
compliance with
operating limitations, Secs. A and B, Approved Airplane Flight Manual."
(b) "This airplane characteristically incapable of spinning."
(c) "No acrobatic maneuvers are approved."
(2) To be displayed in Cabin: "No Smoking."
But the Alons and Mooney's dont require the placard.
Bill Biggs
