Something wrong with the mail server - I got Dave's reply before I got your original message...
Anyway, to set some records straight: John Wayland wrote: > > Hello to All, > > Since I first proposed the electric Insight project, ... Dave indicated that first pure electric Insight with Zinc Air batteries appeared in Canadian '2000 show. Is it not true? I've been cringing while reading some > of Dave's remarks, and just can't hold back as I feel the need to step in with my > perspective and corrections. Now I've learned new to me definition of word "correction" :-) > > > But then again, don't let that deter you! The word is out that you are a >*wizard* > > at squeezing batteries into Honda sheetmetal! ;-) > > Oh please, stop!!!! I can't let this stand and go uncorrected. Dave, I take it you've > never 'seen' Victor's car? Before I go on, I need to state that over the net, it's > hard to do this without sounding like I'm trashing Victor...kind of how it must >sound to > others when he goes on about my stereo systems, I guess. So let me say it now....I >like > Victor, he's a very smart guy, he's very kind and considerate, and he's come through >for John, John please. You know me well enough. I respect you and you can count on my support for EV cause. You know this. Just don't act as a child spotting cool toy in someone else's hands. Your statements are not backed up with facts and thus pointless. .. > to call Victor a 'wizard' when it comes to battery positioning, I'm NOT a wizard and never claimed to be, this was someone's overstatement. > or thought in lay out, Given you have 28 Optimas do you have better suggestion how to position them? > or execution in craftsmanship, I got MANY compliments regarding craftsmanship and attention to details. Many off line, many personally in Woodburn this year and last year. I can distinguish between compliments for just being nice and admitting good work. Every wire under hood is labeled. Every bracket is painted Every battery has own snap on ... Anyway. I've never seen you inspecting ACRX closely and further comment below tell me that (sorry, no offense) you have no idea what are you talking about. > or attention to weight balance, Great attention and much thought was put to it. As a result, the weight distribution is shifted toward rear only 4%. I take it as excellent achievement. Besides, there is no more room under hood, period. Remember, 28 Optimas were given. You won't find better solution. > or loss of the car's utility, and god forbid, attention to detail, this > description couldn't be more wrong! What utility? > It certainly doesn't take a wizard to throw batteries > everywhere in a car while totally destroying its functionality! Throw? Totally? > For crying out loud, the passenger seat for a while, was missing due > to the big uneven hump of strewn batteries on the floor, Sure, I wanted to start driving before completed this part. And, I reluctantly put the passenger seat back. I have ho passengers and the car without useless seat has MORE functionality *to me*: I can put long objects to the floor, more space available in general for occasional bulky cargo. What you're saying is the same as saying that 2 seat Insight lost half of functionality of 4 seat sedan. > and even now, there is this cartoon-like seat on top of the battery heap, This is stock seat > with headrest crammed against he headliner, How do you know if you never sat on ot? > a seat that only a Jack Russel Terrier could sit in! As I said, no one should be in this seat and I don't consider this loss of functionality. Functionality Honda thought I need and what I really need differ. If you want to think I'm wrong, OK, I'm wrong. Think that way, all you want, just don't go off trying to convince everyone that Victor is wrong. > It does take a wizard though to do as others have done, and make their EV project > look and feel as if it could have come from the factory that way...Ralph Merwin's >Prism > comes to mind. I know you like this car, I do too. Ralph wanted it to look as factory made, and he did. I didn't want it to be factory look. I want it to be my test bed for the next conversion, which will be factory looking. What's the debate about? > Not to toot my own horn, Well you do, and that's not being very modest. but my own Blue Meanie is an example at battery positioning > 'wizardry'. Of course, nothing is like it, even close. And on and on and on. > I could have done as others have, by simply filling the trunk of this little > car with batteries. Proves that you know NOTHING about ACRX. THere are no batteries in the trunk it's as empty as from the factory. > I could also have made the engine compartment batteries all fit in a > box over the motor, too. No you couldn't. Entire width of the compartment above motor occupied with inverter, so the batteries must be splitted in groups if you want to fit *any* in there. > This would have worked, As I said, no way it would > but compromises would be made...the most > obvious, would have been a loss of trunk capacity, See above, empty trunk > the less obvious, would have been the loss of 'curb appeal', finesse, > detail...call it what you want, but in short, the loss of the car's > ability to make others get excited over the 'electric car' and have a desire to > have one of their own...allow me to explain. *This* car was never intended to be used for this purpose. Bragging in general is a bad habit :-) > Since the dawn of time, car nut types love to open the hood and > see what she's got under there! Fine. I don't fit a "nit" definition then. > There's nothing better to evoke oohs and ahhs from these types, There is, but not on your priorities list. > than for them to see a gorgeously simple, cylindrical Advanced DC motor I agree. Anything clean shiny and simple lookd good. (Not nesesairly cylingrical or ADC). So the crowd sure will be pleased. > in place of a cluttered greasy gas engine with all its hoses, pumps, filters, >manifolds, etc. You're probably talking about your van... You know Im fan of EV, not ICE. Well, open the hood of VW or Volvo. One neat plastic cover over everything, no hoses, no pumps... > For the past 22 years now, > motorheads and regular plain folks, have been in awe when I open the hood and they >can > actually see the electric motor. There are of course, many practical reasons for >having > access to the motor as well, but the main reason, is to have it in clear view. Well, you *built* your car to drive it AND brag about it. If you can't brag, it's not driveable. Fine by me. I didn't build it for display. Not this car. > hide-away motorized, remote controlled battery tray! No other conversion has it, OEM or garage type. it is not necessary, and is extra expense. > This accomplished many > things... This is purely to impress and brag. Right or wrong just admit it John. > and lastly, it made for a super trick, super crowd > pleasing demo system! That I believe. Key word - "crowd". > > I give these examples to hopefully, correct the notion that simply stuffing a small >car > with as many batteries as possible I could stuff more if inverter wouldn't have voltage limit. Probably not Optimas though. So you know. > > (2) Victor has 'not' had great success fitting batteries into his Civic, John I think I know why you're so wrong in everything!! You're thinking about some other Victor with Civic! I don't have Civic, I have CRX, there is big difference. Have you been talking about my car at all?? > in fact, the car > is now dangerously over weight, I don't have problems driving it. has compromised handling and breaking, Regen works GREAT! Far better than in Meanie. > and is now a one seater car.... Get your facts straight, it's two seater and yes, I sat on the passenger seat, and I am not a short (6'5"). Besides, again, I see nothing wrong purposely making it one seater if it meets my needs better (not because it was impossible to do any other way and I have to put up with it now) you call this great success? He has had great success with his car for 'his' > needs, so that's fine, Finally, *something* positive about ACRX.... > but most folks would find a one seat car unacceptable, and most > folks would find a Civic that weighs as much as his does, way over the limit of > sensibility, too. Other folks can speak for themselves. When I find *this* one seater unacceptable, I get other donor car with different goal in mind. Are the motorcycles limited in their utility (like go to work and back) because they have one seat? Or all the people converting motorcycles are limiting themselves? > Alan Coconi's car comes to mind (the earliest version with Optimas piled >everywhere), so > it seems no surprise that Victor has emulated this car. Though it was great to see >the car > featured in Road & Track magazine with its tire-smoking ability clearly flaunted in a > positive way, it was at the same time, embarrassing to me and other EVers that such a > rolling science project was displayed in the pages of this magazine, perpetuating >the myth > that EVs are only for nerdy wacko types and that the car's utility is always ruined >by > 'batteries everywhere'. As you know, Al's CRX wasn't made for utility, rather to prove the concept. Speaking of wacos.... > > Hopefully, I haven't offended too many with the above. Not too many, just one. No I'm not really offended, just disappointed a bit. You just expose your skillful bias to present things without facts and make them look far better or worse depending on whether it serves your purpose. One can't take it seriously. To let it be known, I still respect you John, and like what you do very much. Just don't dominate. Victor > > See Ya.....John Wayland > > PS: Portland's Gary Graunke has his recently aquired Insight already torn down to a >glider > as this is written, and > is finding out that all I've said has been right on so far...he's not the least bit > worried about whether or not the batteries will fit, and even if I'm off a bit in the > range per charge prediction, he's going to be very happy with anything close to 100 >miles > of range. Sheer's Accord is 264V (I think) and has 100 miles range. So it's doable. Optima sized NiZn batteries, however are different. If no worse, then no problem. Will see.
