Hello to All, Andrew wrote:
> I've been reading the posts on the IN-1 electric insight concept. > It sound way cool but I gotta have 4 seats (well actually 3 would do). > Would there be any advantage to starting with a Prius? The Prius as the hybrid package it is, comes Toyota as an exceptional car because of the way the hybrid system works. In a nut shell, Toyota and Honda took two different approaches...Toyota used a stamped steel body, like 95% of all cars on the road, gave it as much as an areo shape as it could (a real decent .30 CD), and used the money saved from not using exotic materials and hand-build techniques, to put in a NiMH pack twice the size of the Insight's pack (read this more $$$) so that the Prius could have that super cool feature of being able to run at lower speeds and light throttle situations on pure electric power...hence Prius's higher city MPG ratings than its highway ratings. However, take away the high tech hybrid guts, and all you're left with, is a nice, but nothing too special, Toyota, all steel sedan, a sedan not unlike other sedans that in order to come away from a conversion looking like a factory machine, would have to have holes cut in its bodywork to accommodate battery boxes, etc. The Insight as the hybrid package it is, comes Honda as an exceptional car because of the way the hybrid system works 'and' because of its exotic, wind tunnel shaped, controversial styled (you either love it or hate it) super areo (.25 CD) , lowered from the factory, super light weight all aluminum body. Honda's approach was to spend extra dollars on the body and suspension, leaving less within their targeted budget for those expensive NiMH batteries (read this less $$$), hence, the Insight has half the battery capacity of the Prius pack. There is also a much simpler hybrid system that while very effective in achieving low emissions, strong acceleration performance (for a 70-90 mpg car), and stratospheric mileage numbers, does not endow this hybrid with the pure electric mode, such as found in the Prius. However, take away the high tech hybrid guts, and you're still left with a limited production rarity of a body shell that's as exotic as an NSX ot other high end aluminum cars, a body that is ultra light weight, a body who's CD is the highest of any production car (the no longer made EV-1 had it beat with its incredible .19), and a body that from the factory, has this great big 'well' under the hatch floor where 20-22 traction batteries can be placed, leaving the car with a completely factory appearance and with the majority of the battery pack weight centered in the body, when finished as a converted EV. As a converted EV, it will still turn heads, it will handle and corner well, it will be super areo to help achieve very high highway range, and it will still be lightweight, even with 700+ lbs. of batteries on board, so acceleration will be strong. Sidebar: For those who are having trouble with accepting my 130 MPC predictions for an electric Insight using 720 lbs. of NiZN batteries, keep in mind that 720 lbs. of NiZN has the usable energy density of about 2100 lbs. of lead acid batteries! Doubt this? Sheer's 40 lb. NiZN batteries are giving him 100 ahrs in real life use. 45 lb. Optima lead acid batteries, used at the same 264V battery pack level, will give 35 ahrs, tops (at lower 144V-156V levels, they give about 25 ahrs)....do the math. Now, picture an Insight, a car that has already proven to be super easy to push down the road with very little power used, with 2100 lbs. of lead acid batteries, only that somehow, magically, it still weighs 2350 lbs. You can see, that this car would get 130 MPC. My own Red Beastie had 400 lbs. more of lead acid batteries, and with 2500 lbs. of batteries, even with a porky 5300 lbs. curb weight (argghh) the aerodynamics of a brick, and high rolling resistance, this beast did 120 MPC very easily. Anyway, it's pretty cool to have a battery pack so light (720 lbs.) that seems to have the range capacity of 2000+ lbs. of lead acid type batteries. > Probably the advantages wouldn't be worth the price of starting with a > newer car. Actually, compared to other stamped steel bodied cars available, there is no advantage using a Prius body, save for a slightly better than average CD. The Prius body is a very nice design that has a lot of interior space for four or five in a pinch, and it has typical Toyota quality in its construction, so it certainly wouldn't make for a 'bad' conversion...it's just not in the same league as the Insight is, with regards to all of the above. I can't think of any all aluminum bodied, four passenger car's with a built-in battery compartment. It's too bad they didn't make a 2+2 stretched version of the Insight :-) See Ya......John Wayland
