EV Digest 2425
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Silent Thunder Sacramento Nedra drag pics
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Zebras - I have a bite, maybe...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Silent Thunder Sacramento Nedra drag pics
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Zebras - I have a bite, maybe...
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) work horse + 2 ZEBRA's in the trunk
by "mechelaere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Zebras - I have a bite, maybe...
by "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EV cartoon
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV cartoon
by Eric Penne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Forklift drags
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Reality Check on Nimh Batteries
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Electric Vehicle Conversion Auto Car Kit
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) 1975 Corbin Electric Bike
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric Vehicle Conversion Auto Car Kit
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Reality Check on Nimh Batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
One hour charging time. That is impressive. I am assuming you went from
Silicon Valley to Vacaville. Then to Sacto. This is the kind of evolution
that needs to happen so we can all enjoy more useful and practical EV
driving. Lawrence Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: Silent Thunder Sacramento Nedra drag pics
> When can you post the data mentioned at
> http://brucedp02.150m.com/saced02/brucedp31799.html?
>
> I would love to plot it.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 2:03 AM
> Subject: Silent Thunder Sacramento Nedra drag pics
>
>
> > My pics can be seen at:
> >
> > http://brucedp02.150m.com/saced02/
> > or
> > http://brucedp02.0catch.com/saced02/
> >
> > If everyone has used up the site's bandwidth
> > and you can't see them, wait a day and try again.
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ' ____
> > ~/__|o\__
> > '@----- @'---(=
> > . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> > . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> > . (originator of the EV ascci art above)
> > =====
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am confused. I thought this was a bus. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: Zebras - I have a bite, maybe...
> Questions inserted...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lock Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 8:38 PM
> Subject: Zebras - I have a bite, maybe...
>
>
> > Dr.Dustmann of MES-DEA SA was kind enough to reply to my email
> > requesting price/availability and details on their Zebras. I am
> > invited to fill out a questionaire, and I would appreciate any
> > assistance (I'd promise to keep any interested EVers appraised if I
> > ever do get to work with these sodium nickel chloride units!).
> >
> > Here's the questionnaire:
> > 1) Rated Energy [ kWh ] ..............................
> > 2) Peak Power [ kW ] ..............................
> > 3) Continuos Power [ kW ] ..............................
> > 4) Voltage Range [V] ......................
> > 5) Capacity [ Ah ] ..............................
> > 6) Dimensions Battery Compartment Lgth [ mm ] .....................
> > Width [ mm ] ..................
> > Height [ mm ]...................
> > 7) Other Details or Requirements
> >
> > This is for a shuttle service which performs 3,000 trips from late
> > April to early November, peaking June-August at maybe 20 trips a day.
> > Each trip runs non-stop for 12 minutes then stops for 6 minutes then
> > runs the return 12min. trip. Typically once an hour , so 30 minutes
> > stopped beside a charger between each trip and stopped again at a
> > charger between approx.midnight and eight am seven days a week.
> >
> > The route is completely flat though there are often strong headwinds
> > (which turn into strong tailwinds for 50% of those windy trips.) Speed
> > is restricted to ten miles an hour for the whole trip.
>
> Do you know how much power is required to push the ferry?
> Three numbers are needed:
> 1) Into the wind,
> 2) with the wind and
> 3) with no wind.
>
> If this is an existing service, what size engine is used? How much fuel
does
> it use?
> The fuel usage will give a rough estimate of the energy required to do
this
> task.
> ===================================================================
> > (Outside ambient air temperatures range can range from 20°F to maybe
> > 100°F over the running season, but I understand this is not a concern
> > for the zebras, and the temperatures in the battery storage areas
> > remains relatively constant vs the outside air and passenger
> > compartment anyway - approx. 40°F to 70°F.)
>
> This goes in question 7.
> ===================================================================
> > There is no regen from braking - in fact it uses power twice each trip
> > to brake and reverse/turn around by reversing the motors.
> >
> > The shuttle service carries 40 persons including driver and passengers
> > plus gear. The vehicle weight fully loaded 40,000lbs including motors
> > and energy storage. The motors run at only 80% efficient.
>
> What is the sail area of the craft. It makes a big difference in the power
> necessary.
> ===================================================================
>
> > In the early and late season the passenger cab will be heated using
> > "surplus" energy capacity available from fewer trips per day vs the
> > summer peaks.
> >
> > I've left out things... (how fast DO these zebras recharge anyway?) but
> > I hope this doesn't leave a *lot* of variables for energy needs? The
> > parts I have obviously left out are the motors and energy storage and
> > management/charging systems.
>
> Recharge time is governed by the power available and the acceptance rate
of
> the battery. At low state of charge, the power available is usually the
> limit. At high state of charge, the acceptance rate limits the power.
> ===================================================================
>
> > In Dr.Dustmann's questionaire 6)Batts compartment size... well, the
> > shuttle has a lot of available space with temperate conditions for his
> > batts, so I don't know what else I can tell him there.
>
> Give him the dimensions of the space. He won't need all of it. The thing
> that will likely limit the battery is the weight. As you add weight, your
> freeboard is reduced. You need adequate freeboard to keep the water off
the
> deck in the roughest weather that you are required to operate. Give him a
> weight limit in addition to the volume limit.
> ===================================================================
>
> > And I hope I can cover 7) Other Details and Requirements... (as above)
>
> You will want to tell him the recharge times available like you stated:
> Run 12 minutes, rest 6 minutes, run 12 minutes and recharge for 30
minutes.
> Repeat 10 to 20 times a day.
> Fully recharge overnight
>
> > It's questions 1) to 5)...
>
> 4) What is the rated voltage of your motor and speed controller.
>
> 3) How many kW are necessary to push the boat into the wind.
>
> 2) How many kW do you need when reversing direction or stopping. This is
> governed by the pitch of the prop, the motor impedance and the gear ratio
> between them. If you have a variable speed control, the peak power
> requirement will be less than if you are using contactors.
>
> 1) Multiply the answer to #3 by 24 minutes and divide by 60 to get kWh.
Add
> some reserve capacity for when the batteries age and their capacity goes
> down. I would ask for double the requirement given by the formula.
>
> 5) Divide the answer in #1 by the answer to #4.
>
> > And I left out the point about this being a ferryboat and not on wheels
> > but afloat.
>
> Make that clear. A marine environment requires different plating and
> materials on surfaces to last a long time. Be sure you state fresh water
or
> salt water.
>
> > I would just like to give the good Doctor a list of specs that make
> > sense for his batteries! And get a price and availability from him if
> > I want the shuttle in service in May 2004. And know about the
> > charging/management schemes and projected life of the unit in this
> > service.
> >
> > So I'm hoping an initial quote will at least be based on a reasonable
> > "ballpark" set of figures that agree and make sense to him.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Lock
> >
> > ps... motors at 80% efficiency? What would be their ratings?
> >
> > pps... thanks again
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QCYCTender/
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Down boy, (the data is in a notebook and not
going anywhere) as soon as I get time.
I only have a few EV duties:
EAA webmaster, 36 discussion groups and their 36
assciated web pages to manage, answering EV QnA
email, EAA board email, a few Blazer EV issues
to work on, and the list goes on ...
Today, selfishly took the time to resolve issues on
three PCs for a friend. Two are now win98/linux dual
boot systems, and one is ready for him to complete
the win install. He said he would redo the Sac drag
pics he scanned to be 640 pixel
(so I dd get something done today).
Time to crash, and put this juicy head and chest cold
to bed :-zzz
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am confused. I
thought this was a bus. Lawrence Rhodes....
Sorry Lawrence <smile>. I was hoping that a bus would be a good
analogy. Most of the folks aboard here are on wheels obviously, but I
was thinking that power requirements would be similar (power to move a
certain weight over a certain distance in a certain time?). Just no
hills to worry about? Just not sure how lousy the rolling resistance
is on the "tires"...
Lock
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hello EV folks
For a while this truck in for sale in BERLIN:
for Zebra hunters an expensive but exceptional possibility:
http://www.mobile.de/cgi-bin/search.pl?CountOff=39&DataNr=38&DisplayDetail=2
5495116&DoSearch=1&FormCategory=0&FormColor=%2e%2e%2ebeliebig&FormDate=0&For
mDurchmesser=0&FormEZ=%2d&FormKilometer=%2d&FormLand=%2e&FormMake=0&FormMode
l=elektro&FormPLZ=&FormPower=%2d&FormPrice=%2d&FormSort=0&Page=0&SearchCat=b
ereich%3dlkw%26sprache%3d1&bereich=lkw&sprache=1&x=50&y=12
Probably the price can get much lower yet as nobody wants it.
I know some german + I am also member of german EV list
more info:
http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/ecars/prit-sprinter/facts5.htm
greetings
Eddy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lock Hughes writes:
>
> In Dr.Dustmann's questionaire 6)Batts compartment size... well, the
> shuttle has a lot of available space with temperate conditions for his
> batts, so I don't know what else I can tell him there.
Tell him the space available?
> And I left out the point about this being a ferryboat and not on wheels
> but afloat.
Why? He might have an interest in seeing his batteries used on a ferry
boat.
Does your ferry carry any ballast? If so, you have the option of
removing ballast to offset any extra weight gained during the conversion.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
Has anyone seen this not-too-funny EV cartoon?
http://www.gristmagazine.com/ha/ha111102.asp?source=daily
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is no different that the people who do it at the gas station.
I've never left the nozzle in the tank and drove off but I have heard
of people doing it and seen the damage done from it.
Eric
--- "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> All,
> Has anyone seen this not-too-funny EV cartoon?
>
> http://www.gristmagazine.com/ha/ha111102.asp?source=daily
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-[edited]
From: "forwarded" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: EV drag races with Crown Forklifts @ 5mph
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:28:29 -0800
Was working in a plant this week and noticed a couple of guys
going at it during some free time in a wide open area about
100 ft long., both backward and forward.
They seemed to be having the time of their lives. I have
seldom seen adults with such grins, in or out of the
workplace.
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Reality Check on Nimh Batteries
> >> Besides, what is the point of having NiMH batteries if you always
> >> keep them partially discharged? Your example (25%-75%) would mean
> >> that you were only using 50% of their capacity. If that's the case
> >> use PbA for your normal trips and rent a Ferrari with the money you
> >> saved on those occasional longer trips.
>
> With any type of battery, you'll get longer life if you avoid fully
> discharging and overcharging it.
This is not what the battery people are telling me about NiMH batteries,
Lee - our cell phones use them, and they tell me to discharge them fully
before recharge. In practice, I have found that this is a good idea, if you
want a good run time out of them. In fact, I put a automotive lamp on them
to drain questionable ones down completely before recharging. I do get more
minutes out of them that way!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.gremcoinc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All
For sale on Ebay-
Electric Vehicle Conversion Auto Car Kit
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872397035
Anyone familiar will this?
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another one from ebay, seller claims it is the 20th one made.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872302548
Anyone know how many of these were made?
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup, taht was state of the art 30 years ago. As I understand it the
efficiency of aircraft starter/generators is pretty low, and not much
low end torque to boot.
And it even include a two speed series parrallel speed controler.
On the other hand it does provide dirt simple regen. And that is a
really nice looking adapter. If you are looking for a low end starter
kit, and you can get it for about $400, it might be worth it.
Roy LeMeur wrote:
Hello All
For sale on Ebay-
Electric Vehicle Conversion Auto Car Kit
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872397035
Anyone familiar will this?
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> With any type of battery, you'll get longer life if you avoid fully
>> discharging and overcharging it.
Joseph H. Strubhar wrote:
> This is not what the battery people are telling me about NiMH
> batteries, Lee. Our cell phones use them, and they tell me to
> discharge them fully before recharge. In practice, I have found
> that this is a good idea, if you want a good run time out of them.
Given perfect chargers, shallower discharges and less charging will
increase battery life. But the chargers in most consumer products are
far from perfect. They are usually as cheap as possible. And, they
usually stress fast recharge as more important than long battery life.
It is common to find chargers that blindly charge at a high rate for a
fixed length of time. If the battery happens to be dead when you start,
then it won't get overcharged. But if it is already mostly charged, then
such a charger will overcharge it. Thus, the owner's manual advises you
to fully discharge before recharging it.
But it should be noted that this is a special case rule, caused by the
cheap charger design. It is *not* a general rule that should be applied
to smarter chargers!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
