EV Digest 2530
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: cut-n-crimp
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: cut-n-crimp
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Tiger Truck nEVs
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Tiger Truck nEVs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: New EV Project
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: cut-n-crimp
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Rabbit based EV brakes WAS-Re: gimme a brake ...
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) EVLN(CARB dillutes mandate again to please automakers)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: cut-n-crimp
by "tgleeman2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
by Jay Donnaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Charge across the Rockies
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: New EV Project
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: cut-n-crimp, Terminal Thing
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I have been told what I have is 2/0 cable
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--- Begin Message ---
2/0 and 00 are the same thing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: cut-n-crimp
> I have been told what I have is 2/0 cable
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking about John Lussmyer's battery heating problem (wants
higher temperature, no room for a thermostat), and had a rather odd idea
that might be just the thing.
Suppose you get some insulated resistance wire. Let's say (for the sake
of argument) that 20 feet of it happens to draw 200 watts when plugged
into your AC power, and that this amount of heat is more than enough to
warm your batteries to the desired temperature.
You could just string this wire around your batteries. But without a
thermostat, it would overheat the batteries. If you add a thermostat, it
would be blind luck to find a suitable place for it. Most likely, some
parts of the wire would seriously overheat, and others would underheat
the batteries.
But, suppose you string that wire through a 20' piece of plastic tubing.
Put a watertight "T" fitting on each end, with the electrical
connections coming out the side, and hose fittings on the end. Use a
small pump to circulate water through the tubing. If the flow rate is
reasonable, all the water in the tubing is at relatively the same
temperature. A single thermostat, located in the small reservoir
containing the pump (the windshield washer fluid?) would control its
temperature. And every battery that tubing wraps around will be pushed
to that same temperature.
I *think* such a system could be made very compact, simple, and
reliable, and would hold all batteries at the same temperature.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have any experience with this company
and its nEVs http://tigertruck.com
Looking at the specifications it is a direct drive
with a 72 VDC system. It did not specify a top
speed, but I assume it is a sub-highway design.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try asking Marc Kohler of EVs of Texas. I think they market them in Texas.
-Ed T
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 9:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Tiger Truck nEVs
Does anyone have any experience with this company
and its nEVs http://tigertruck.com
Looking at the specifications it is a direct drive
with a 72 VDC system. It did not specify a top
speed, but I assume it is a sub-highway design.
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
At 10:44 PM 1/12/2003 -0800, Lee Hart wrote:
But, suppose you string that wire through a 20' piece of plastic tubing.
Put a watertight "T" fitting on each end, with the electrical
A water heater is a possibility, except there isn't room for much over 1/4"
tubing. Some "flat" tube (yeah, oxymoron there) would probably be needed.
Just use a standard (on the small side) water heater element in a tiny tank
for the heat.
This would be another possibility to try, though I am getting tired of
removing/installing the batteries. It's a LOT of work. Especially in the
front compartment with several brackets, charger, hood, DC2DC, etc.. to
remove/install, and 2 of the batteries are quite difficult to maneuver into
their proper position.
I think I've done it about 3 times now. blech.
I'm testing running the self-regulating heat cable off the pack
voltage. (156V nominal)
It seems to draw about .8 A at 165V after it comes up to temp. That's 130
watts of heat, about 65 per compartment. The battery compartment
sides/bottom are pretty well insulated, so I think that should be enough
heat. After 3 hours the batteries were only up to 66 deg (from 45
ambient). We'll see what they are like in the morning. The cable itself
doesn't get terribly hot, there is one piece that is exposed, and I can
touch it for a while before getting "too hot".
We'll see what temp it evens out at.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My next project is to build a recumbent around a battery box(long and
skinny). This design uses only 2 hp to attain 60 mph. Look Ma I have a
battery box and it's not being used.
http://www.voidstar.com/bff/images/recped.jpg This is what I want to make
next. I believe I can make this little demon go 100 miles at Freeway
speeds. Lawrence Rhodes... I am sure Frank the metal god could weld this
up in one day...................
Ah! Julian Bond's Feet Forward motorcycle site. I love that picture.
The guy looks so goofy/happy. I want half the stuff pictured on that
site. Especially a Voyager or Quasar. Oh, well, can't have everything.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you using the cable shown at
http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/frameset.html?book=Heaters&file=SRF3_SRF5_SRF8
They make higher temperature versions like
http://www.omega.com/Heaters/pdf/SRME_HEATCABLE.pdf
Note that the watts per foot fall off linearly with temperature.
I would be careful with it. The low temperature is capable of 150F.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
> At 10:44 PM 1/12/2003 -0800, Lee Hart wrote:
> >But, suppose you string that wire through a 20' piece of plastic tubing.
> >Put a watertight "T" fitting on each end, with the electrical
>
> A water heater is a possibility, except there isn't room for much over
1/4"
> tubing. Some "flat" tube (yeah, oxymoron there) would probably be needed.
> Just use a standard (on the small side) water heater element in a tiny
tank
> for the heat.
> This would be another possibility to try, though I am getting tired of
> removing/installing the batteries. It's a LOT of work. Especially in the
> front compartment with several brackets, charger, hood, DC2DC, etc.. to
> remove/install, and 2 of the batteries are quite difficult to maneuver
into
> their proper position.
> I think I've done it about 3 times now. blech.
>
> I'm testing running the self-regulating heat cable off the pack
> voltage. (156V nominal)
> It seems to draw about .8 A at 165V after it comes up to temp. That's 130
> watts of heat, about 65 per compartment. The battery compartment
> sides/bottom are pretty well insulated, so I think that should be enough
> heat. After 3 hours the batteries were only up to 66 deg (from 45
> ambient). We'll see what they are like in the morning. The cable itself
> doesn't get terribly hot, there is one piece that is exposed, and I can
> touch it for a while before getting "too hot".
>
> We'll see what temp it evens out at.
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You need to heat it up and check every connection. There might be another
source for the smell. It might even be the 12v system. It just takes one
bad connection out of what 60 or so. Look hard, you are right when you
worry of a melted post. At the very minimum you might be under charging one
battery and it might be the toasty plastic burning thing as well as a basic
loose connection. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 4:22 PM
Subject: cut-n-crimp
> I had POSTed how my range is suffering when I drive on the
> rain wet highway. I noticed that if I drive on city streets
> (Middlefield Road) to get home, even though it is stop and
> go, I use less energy. Perhaps there is less loss on the
> city streets?
>
> But when accelerating from red light to red light to keep up
> with traffic, I smelled hot battery cables. My high current
> draw was heating cables .
>
> Saturday, when I drove South to the San Jose EAA meeting I
> purposely drove faster than usual. Instead of driving at 55
> mph drawing 100 amp at 125 VDC (on a 132 VDC pack), I turned
> the current up to 150 amps.
>
> Not that much more current but after 25 miles, when I pulled
> into the parking spot, I smelled the hot plastic cable
> insulation.
>
> I tapped on the meeting room window and motioned the members
> to come out and gander at my hot-n-toasty cables.
>
> The batteries were warm but not hot. Most of the rear
> battery posts and cables were hot to the touch. These are
> the original cables from when the EV was made ten years ago
> by Solar Electric (now defunct).
>
> I believe it is time to make new cables. Most of my cables
> are 00 gauge with automotive lug connectors.
>
> The other cables were replaced when Mike Slominski changed
> my pack voltage from 120 VDC T125's to 132 VDC T145s. Those
> do not have automotive connectors, they have lug connectors
> (flat with a hole in the center).
>
> Batteries now come as 'universal posts' unless you pay extra
> and wait. These are a funky half-n-half wannbe battery
> posts. They aren't quite a round post because the center is
> cut away to be flat with a hole through it.
>
> I plan to go buy 00 gauge cable and use the flat lug
> connectors to build replacement battery cables. I will
> borrow a cable crimper from one of our local gurus and buddy
> up with a guy who will need to know how to make cables
> anyway (he is building an E-cycle with a sidecar of
> batteries).
>
> I am concerned that these tired cables are wasting my
> energy, reducing my range and could melt a post.
>
>
>
>
> =====
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> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Seth,
Thanks for your comments.
Probably I'm ok on ball joints from what you say (11/77). We
redid the wheel bearings and hubs back in '94 at conversion time,
20,000 miles ago. I haven't had my mechanic tell me there's
anything like slop in the front wheels, which I think would be a
sign of worn wheel bearings. In the rears, when I was checking
them some years ago, there was occasionally a little sign of
burning, ie. some discoloration, but not much. I asked my
mechanic a few months ago to check those and he said they're ok.
(Actually, the mechanic as I call it is Swiss Garage, so there
are several mechanics down there. About a quarter to half mile
walk down Magnolia, so quite handy :-).)
I'll crawl under the rear one of these days and check that RR
strut. There was no oil/dampness inside the body where it mounts
up, but I don't think I'd expect any to be there. It would
naturally be bottom side where it's less convenient and harder to
see. The rear does not have any funky bounce on the bounce test.
I'd be curious as to your answer for upper front strut bearings.
My answer so far has been this summer when my P175/70R13 Invictas
wore out, I went up to P185/70R13 Goodyear Integrity tires.
Between the four tires, I have an extra 500 lbs load capability.
It makes the ride easier, soaking up the bumps better.
Thanks,
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: Rabbit based EV brakes WAS-Re: gimme a brake ...
> It has been a few years since I owned a (rusty) Rabbit here in
the
> NorthEast, but here is what I have so far. It looks like the
break was
> made 11/77 in manufacture, so maybe it is only some 1978 models
and earlier.
>
> 171-407-365 F is the part # for the later, (some say a "G"
suffix too)
> 171-407-365 C is the part # for the earlier.
>
> I might be wrong about the size, but they did revise the part.
And you
> are probably overdue. Along with the wheel bearings and hubs.
>
> The Golf II could get 17 or 19mm ball joints, and maybe I am
confusing
> this in my head with the rev C versus rev F Rabbit balljoint.
I will
> ask around to see if they are interchangeable.
>
>
> A Scirocco 16V (1987-1988) front suspension should bolt up,
which
> enables 10.1" diameter vented front brakes (and disc rear if
you really
> want it), which should help stop. You might want to play with
master
> cylinder diamter if you do this, though.
>
>
>
> The thump in the back might be a blown shock, is there more
than just a
> bit of dampness from oil around the shock shaft seal?
>
> I think there is an answer for upper front strut bearings. One
that
> doesn't involve camber plates, welding and heim joints.
>
> Seth
>
> Chuck Hursch wrote:
> >
> > Actually, large-diameter rotors might not be such a bad idea.
> > Everytime I look at the rotors on Preston McCoy's Porsche 912
EV
> > (www.geocities.com/nbeaa), I kinda go "Wow!". He says he can
> > haul his car down in a hurry...
> >
> > So what you're saying, Seth, is that I likely have the wimpy
15mm
> > ball joints, and that maybe, someday, those should be
upgraded.
> > I do not recall replacing the ball joints when we did the
> > conversion back in '94, although I remember looking at them
out
> > there in free space, as everything else around them was
rather
> > extensively disassembled. My main suspension problems have
been
> > pounding out the struts in the front (the bearings in the top
> > blew out), and also the steering rack got loose (that latter
may
> > have just been its time rather than from weight and
high-pressure
> > times), so new steering rack, but they didn't adjust it
> > correctly, so now thunka, thunka down the road with many
bumps.
> > So now have a set of nitrogen-filled struts and bigger,
cushier
> > tires to soak up the spikes on the struts a bit.
> >
> > I am a little worried/annoyed with a sound I've been getting
from
> > the passenger-side rear. A bit of a thunking sound with some
> > bumps. Checked the strut at the top where it bolts into the
body
> > in the "trunk" area, and it was solid as a rock, at least to
the
> > extent I could move it by trying to budge it with a hundred
> > pounds or two of force with my body, so nut not loose. I
suspect
> > the strut or a damper bushing needs replaced, but it's a
little
> > hard for me to diagnose. The mechanic said it was fine back
in
> > 2000, but I think that was before the noise started. Any
> > suggestions? The rear suspension components don't seem to
get as
> > hammered as their relatives up front.
> >
> > Please go ahead and post about the 15->17mm balljoint
upgrade,
> > enough so that those of us who might want to do it would have
a
> > fair idea of what's coming their way.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chuck Hursch
> > Larkspur, CA
> > NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
> > www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
> >
> > Seth wrote:
> > > A note about VW rabbits and front and rear brake parts and
> > suspensions.
> > >
> > > Early rabbits had smaller (15mm, IIRC) ball joints than
later
> > (17mm, I
> > > think). A heavier car like an EV might want the later
steering
> > knuckle
> > > and balljoint so they don't break. If they upgraded to the
17mm
> > on the
> > > stock rabbit, then an EV probably should have that also.
Around
> > 1980
> > > they went to the Kelsey Hayes MkII front caliper, the one
Chuck
> > has.
> > > This caliper lets you bolt in the inexpensive upgrade of
vented
> > rotors
> > > in the front, probably a good idea for a EV. I am pretty
sure
> > that the
> > > easiest way would be to change the knuckle, ball joint
caliper
> > frame,
> > > caliper, hub and wheel bearings as more or less one piece
on
> > each side.
> > > The knuckles and calipers are probably next to free at a
> > junkyard and
> > > the bearings, hubs, brake pads and ball joints are about
$20
> > each if you
> > > know where to look. Also if you want a high performance pad
> > that works
> > > on the street, try Hawk HPS compound. I know it has been
> > available for
> > > CRXs and VWs and it stops VERY well, hot and like a
semi-metal
> > when
> > > cold, and it's about $35. Don't get the black or blue
compund,
> > they ar
> > > race only, stop a bit better when very hot, but have poor
cold
> > performance.
> > >
> > > There is another level of upgrade, involving larger
diameter
> > rotors, but
> > > it is involved and probably not what an EV needs.
> > >
> > > I ramble, but I figure most rabbit EVs out there have old
> > balljoints in
> > > them, and some are probably in need of an upgrade. There is
a
> > similar
> > > upgrade for golf IIs, but I haven't heard of any on the
list.
> > If asked I
> > > can post about that.
> > >
> > >
> > > HTH
> > >
> > > Seth
> > >
> > > Chuck Hursch wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On the Rabbit, when we did the conversion back in '94, we
> > > > refurbished the brakes with organic linings. On my steep
> > (~20%
> > > > grade) hill coming down from the apt, I wanted to know if
I
> > could
> > > > stop myself in case my front hydraulic brakes failed. So
> > headed
> > > > down the hill and pulled up on the emergency brake handle
> > between
> > > > the seats. No stop. No fastah, but no stop. The rear
brake
> > > > linings were the first to go, inside of 10K miles. Hmm,
not
> > > > good, I thought EVs were supposed to have lower
> > maintenance...
> > > > So, Preston, the fellow EV'er who helped me convert my
> > vehicle,
> > > > had had good experience with carbon-kevlar linings from
> > > > Porterfield on his VW Vanagon. I ordered up a set of
shoes
> > with
> > > > carbon-kevlar street linings for the rear drums and we
> > installed
> > > > them. They have basically exceeded my expectations, and
> > they're
> > > > still going strong some 10K+ miles and several years late
r.
> > Back
> > > > to the hill test, and I was impressed! Yank, and come to
a
> > > > sliding stop, locking up the wheels. Can be done
repeatedly
> > and
> > > > rather reliably, although it's tough on rear tires :-|.
So
> > I
> > > > now felt safer against a runaway on my hill. Next up, my
> > front
> > > > organics ran out, except this time my inspection method
> > failed
> > > > me, since I was only seeing the outside shoes through the
> > hole on
> > > > the disc brakes up front. My mechanic had the car up on
the
> > > > hoist for the frequent CV boot replacement, and made a
> > emphatic
> > > > note to me that my linings (the insides) were nearly down
to
> > the
> > > > rivets. Not good! So I had to punt and take him up on
his
> > offer
> > > > (rather than what I was holding out for which was
Porterfield
> > > > carbon-kevlars on the front too), since he wasn't up for
> > letting
> > > > my vehicle out of the shop. He produced a nice set of
vented
> > and
> > > > grooved rotors (which was another upgrade angle I was
working
> > on)
> > > > and a set of semi-metallic "rotor eater" linings.
Installed,
> > and
> > > > I could feel the well-known warm-up time (which wasn't
long
> > > > considering the descent from my apt). Those linings have
> > been in
> > > > there several years by now, and he says they're doing
fine.
> > And
> > > > I also note that no sweat forms on my brow like it used
to
> > when I
> > > > had a big hill descent in front of my EV. I pretty much
take
> > it
> > > > like all the gas cars do. And when my car was down in
the
> > South
> > > > Bay last year for an "extended period", we had the
vehicle
> > out on
> > > > the freeway (Hi101) doing 70mph for some testing.
> > Unfortunately,
> > > > came up real fast on a traffic jam and all the brake
lights
> > lit
> > > > up. It was work, but I got 'er hauled down with room to
> > spare.
> > > > It would help a bit if I had the vacuum assist going, but
> > that's
> > > > another story...
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line is from experience I strongly recommend
getting
> > away
> > > > from the stock crap organic linings. Our EVs put a lot
of
> > heat
> > > > on their linings, especially if you are in hilly country.
Go
> > > > with carbon-kevlar (my first choice) or semi-metallics
(the
> > > > braking is not so good till they warm up). Porterfield
> > likely
> > > > does not have shoes for your S-10, but there are probably
> > shops
> > > > that do. Police vehicles at least used to run
semi-metallics
> > or
> > > > some such. Maybe your Kragen metallics would be a good
bet.
> > > >
> > > --
> > > vze3v25q@verizondotnet
>
> --
> vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(CARB dillutes mandate again to please automakers)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/mcherald/news/state/4924810.htm
Posted on Sat, Jan. 11, 2003 Zero-emission vehicle rules may
be delayed Standards slated for 2003
By DON THOMPSON Associated Press
SACRAMENTO - California would delay until 2005 requirements
for new zero emission vehicles such as fuel cell and hybrid
vehicles that were supposed to be adopted this year, if
state regulators adopt revised rules recommended Friday.
The California Air Resources Board's staff reworded the
state's proposed mandates to comply with two adverse court
rulings last year, but said the regulations keep pushing
manufacturers to develop a new generation of low pollution
vehicles while reducing the industry's cost.
Critics, however, said the proposed regulations would let
major manufacturers avoid putting any additional zero
emission vehicles on the road at least through 2009 by
relying instead on ''credits'' for existing low-pollution
vehicles.
''We need to get rid of some of these phony credits they've
built up,'' said the Sierra Club's V. John White.
''This program put zero emission vehicles on the road. Why
let up on the pressure?'' asked Jason Mark, director of the
clean vehicles program for the Union of Concerned
Scientists.
The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers and spokesmen for
Ford, General Motors and DaimlerChrysler had no immediate
comment on the regulations.
But GM spokesman Dave Barthmuss said the industry is pleased
by renewed negotiations with the board since a federal judge
in Fresno issued a preliminary injunction in June delaying
enforcement of the electric-car mandate in its old form for
two years. A state judge issued a second temporary
restraining order last month at the behest of the auto
industry.
While those decisions may eventually be overturned on
appeal, the board staff decided to remove the challenged
language and extend its own delay because ''removal of this
uncertainty is essential for the ZEV program to move
ahead.''
''It's certainly a heck of a lot better than where we were a
year ago in terms of legal issues,'' said GM's Barthmuss.
The intense lobbying produced regulations with ''something
for everyone -- except the public,'' countered the Sierra
Club's White.
After several earlier delays, the mandate was supposed to
start this year by requiring that 10 percent of new vehicles
sold in California have zero or near zero tailpipe
emissions, with a gradual increases to 16 percent by 2018.
Despite the delay and rewording, the recommendations keep
alive a drive that is crucial to keep air pollution from
worsening at a pace with the most populous state's spiraling
growth, said board spokesman Jerry Martin.
-
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 4:22 PM
Subject: cut-n-crimp
> I plan to go buy 00 gauge cable and use the flat lug
> connectors to build replacement battery cables. I will
> borrow a cable crimper from one of our local gurus and buddy
Why don't you cut-n-crimp-n-solder those cables for a better,
low ohm connection and seal? A propane torch and heavy guage rosin
core, electronic grade solder works well.
Happy EV'ing.
Tom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The RAV4 EV FAQ page mentions an upcoming "Partial ZEV" Camry. What the
heck is a PZEV...could it (not likely) be a plug-in hybrid?
A search on toyota.com yielded no other mention of PZEV.
Jay Donnaway
RAV4 EV (Electric Vehicle) - Toyota's Environmental Commitment
<<...OLE_Obj...>> Question Does the end of the RAV4 EV retail program mean
Toyota is abandoning its commitment to build environmentally advanced
vehicles? <<...OLE_Obj...>> Answer Quite the contrary, Toyota remains
committed to expanding our lineup of environmental vehicles. This commitment
is most clearly reflected in our development and expansion of
hybrid-electric technology: a no-compromise, cost effective solution for
customers who want high fuel economy and very low emissions. Already, our
environmental leader, the Toyota Prius, has sold over 40,000 units in the US
since its launch in June 2000, and sales are growing. At the 2003 Detroit
Auto Show, we announced that the new Lexus RX-330 luxury sport utility
vehicle will be available with a hybrid drivetrain within the next 2 years,
with more announcements to follow in the coming year. In addition to
hybrids, Toyota will be selling PZEV (partial zero-emission vehicles) Camrys
in California beginning in early 2003.
At the same time, Toyota has not abandoned its pursuit of offering customers
zero emission vehicles. On December 2, 2002, Toyota leased two hydrogen fuel
cell hybrid vehicles to the University of California, Davis and the
University of California, Irvine. While still in the very early stages of
commercialization, Toyota firmly believes that fuel cell technology - built
upon the hybrid drivetrains available today - will have a large part to play
in the passenger cars and trucks of tomorrow.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:48 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
>
> See
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RAV4_EV/message/3917
>
> -
> http://toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/index.html
> <http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/images/rav4e
> v2.jpg>
>
> Toyota Motor Corporation will discontinue production of the RAV4
> Electric Vehicle worldwide in the spring of 2003. Therefore, Toyota
> will no longer take orders for the RAV4 EV in the retail market in
> California. However, Toyota will honor all orders made on the RAV4 EV
> internet order system and finalized with a deposit at a dealership.
>
> Toyota wishes to offer a sincere "thank you" to our customers who
> purchased or leased a RAV4 EV. As always, customer satisfaction is
> our highest priority and we hope that your experience in owning a
> Toyota electric vehicle will continue to be positive. We understand
> you may be concerned about Toyota's commitment to your investment.
> Please be assured, Toyota will continue to ensure that dealers
> capable of servicing RAV4 EVs are located in each major metropolitan
> area in California throughout the 5-year powertrain warranty period
> of your vehicles.
>
> We also understand that many of our customers and supporters may have
> questions about the discontinuation of RAV4 EV production and sales.
> The linked Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) will provide answers to
> many of these questions. We plan to update this list periodically as
> new questions about RAV4 EV arise.
>
> Once again, thank you for your interest in the RAV4 EV.
> -
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- Begin Message ---
I had a call last night from Ken Norwick, who converted a Saturn
a couple of years ago in Calgary. He is keen to launch an EV
expedition to Vancouver for Rev2003. "A Road Trip, like we did
in college, expecpt without the pot", he said. I went to a
different college, where Road Trips were not a tradition, but I'm
thinking "goin' to Mardi Gras". Ken is planning to get a 10KW
charger on a trailer, either pulling it behind the EV or putting
it in a chase vehicle that would also have a tow dolly as a
fallback. I sorta had the idea of cutting apart my daughter's
old Accord into a pusher trailer, like Sharkey's VW pusher. But
the reality is that I've a lot of work to finish the restoration
of the Citroen, which is running far from street legal, and the
day job leaves me little time to work on it.
Does anybody have experience going cross country with opportunity
charging? Crumbs, I'd need between 25 and 30 charges to get the
1200 km (740 miles) from here to Vancouver.
Still, Ken's vision is not limited: he has students from U of C
organizing and fund raising, a media consultant, and plans for a
big sendoff complete with marching band. Hoo Hoo! Ken is a big
EV promoter, missing no opportunity to participate in local
environmental shows and media interviews. He was featured in the
Alberta AAA magazine a few months ago, and has had a couple of
interviews on CBC Radio, one of which included me.
Mike Hoskinson
-my other car is a PZEV, it only pollutes when the engine is on.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Although I hadn't mentioned it yet, I am considering the trailer idea.
For me the key really is going to be to build the bike first using the small
batteries that I already have then gather some empirical data. So far
everything I have bought has been at bargain prices, so I haven't had to
spend a lot of money (~$750) and I have all the major components sitting in
my garage. I think that this will change however when it comes to buying
the batteries/charger combo. I would expect my investment to easily double
or triple with that purchase. My worst fear is to make the wrong decision
at that point and feel like I have wasted money that was meant to give me a
nice clean commute. If I build the bike with all the parts I have now and
it doesn't look like it is going to be a solution for my commute, then I
won't feel bad about continuing to commute in my Honda Insight and having an
EV bike to play and make short trips on. I also wouldn't feel bad about
building the bike and waiting several months for the whole Evercell thing to
shake out. It really was the hope of being able to use Evercells that
started me on this project in the first place, but as time has went on, and
no one has been able to get them, I have become more skeptical that they are
going to become available.
I am also a little unsure of how extreme I want the bike to look. I really
like the look of it now, as a classic street bike. If I could keep that
original look and still make my commute that would be ideal. Of course with
motorcyles a lot of the original look is the engine and tailpipes so that is
a tricky one to do anyhow, but if I could have a nice clean electric motor
and some nice looking batteries on display with as much of the original trim
in place as possible that would be great. I am even consdering leaving the
tailpipes especially if I could put them to some clever use. I think a
small battery pack on board and a real motorcycle trailer with a larger pack
in it could accomplish this. If I went this route I might even be able to
use floodeds in the trailer.
Currently my two top ideas are to either shoot for less range and a quick
charger and make a short charging stop halfway to work, or wait on the
Evercells as they seem to have the most promise of doing what I really want.
The trailer idea would be my next choice.
There is still one other big unknown for me, and that is if I can make the
bike go freeway speeds on 48V. My original plan had been for 72V, but when
I started looking at the price of controllers it was clear that I could get
a 48V controller for much cheaper.
Certainly the feedback that I have gotten from the list has been helpful.
damon
From: Jay Donnaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'damon henry' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: New EV Project
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:04:12 -0500
Good Luck, and please keep the list updated on your progress. The 6.7
incher should give some real get up n go- what if you kept the bike set up
light, with a trailer or ...dareisay..?sidecar, to hold a commute-worthy
battery back?
Jay Donnaway
> -----Original Message-----
> From: damon henry [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 12:36 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: New EV Project
>
> I don't believe it will be easy, but I do believe I could do it with
> Evercells and perhaps some other batteries, although Evercells for me
are
> still unproven and unattainable. That is why I am going to build the
bike
>
> first then chose batteries.
>
> I do have backup plans. There is a public charging station I could
swing
> by
> at about the halfway point. This would be a bit out of the way and
would
> require me to get a charger that can do big amps as I wouldn't want to
be
> there all day. There are also other alternate routes that aren't all
> freeway. My first choice is to use the freeway (which of course doesn't
> always mean freeway speeds) and adjust from there.
>
> I really don't know what I will be able to do until after I see what it
> takes to move the bike. I haven't seen many examples of EV motorcycles
to
>
> compare to, but the ones I have seen have not met my range and speed
> requirements and I know there is a reason why they have not, but I'm
> willing
> to give it a go. If it is apparent that there is no way I will get the
> range I want, then I will get a few more Hawkers and keep it a short
range
>
> bike.
>
> I've talked this project over with John Wayland a bunch, and he seems
> confident we can get the range out of it. I am a bit skeptical, but do
> believe that it will work with either Evercells or Saft Nicads, and
could
> possibly work with the Group 31 Optimas. As far as getting enough
> batteries
> on, I can think of lots of creative ways to mount batteries on it, so my
> only real concern is weight.
>
>
> >From: Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: New EV Project
> >Date: 10 Jan 2003 21:02:56 -0700
> >
> >No way are you going to be able to fit enough batteries on a GT250 to
go
> >25 miles at freeway speed.
> >
> >Not unless you can afford LIons.
> >
> >Well maybe if it is seriously streamlined.
> >
> >On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 20:13, damon henry wrote:
> > > Well my first official EV project is underway. I did electrify one
of
>
> >the
> > > kids scooters a few months ago, but that doesn't count.
> > >
> > > I just brought home the donor vehicle today. It is a 1974 Suzuki
> GT250.
> > It
> > > has less then 5000 miles on it, and is in decent shape. There is
some
>
> >rust
> > > on some of the chrome, some scratches on some of the paint, the
lights
>
> >don't
> > > seem to work, and the front brake sticks. It seems to have a nice
> >strong
> > > frame and be in sound shape other then that. It even has the
original
> > > tires. I gave the kids some rides up and down the street, but the
> > > carberauter seems to need adjusting, and it is noisy, and stinky, so
> >rather
> > > then run the gas all the way out like I was planning, I think I will
> >just
> > > drain the tank and tear into it.
> > >
> > > The basic plan is this. ADC 6.7 inch motor. The main reason I
chose
> >this,
> > > is because I was able to get it for $125. John Wayland has a bunch
he
>
> >is
> > > selling at that price. The controller is a Curtis 1204 36-48V 275A.
> > > Batteries are still undetermined, but I have 6 Hawker GP13s that I
am
> >going
> > > to use to test with after I get it assembled before I make my final
> > > batteries decision. I want to build this to do a fairly long
commute,
>
> >25
> > > miles one way, mostly freeway, and I want to see what kind of
WH/Mile
> I
> >end
> > > up with before commiting to batteris. Right now I am thinking that
4
> >Group
> > > 31 Optimas are the most likely choice. I would love to do
Evercells,
> >but
> > > we'll see when anyone can actually get their hands on some. I am
also
>
> >still
> > > considering NiCads. If I go with AGM's I will probably use a
modular
> > > charger made up of 4 of the Toshiba Laptop chargers. After the
thread
> > > started about these being great for charging AGM's I realized I had
a
> >couple
> > > laying around. I have been playing with them on my Hawkers and they
> >really
> > > do well. I actually have two different versions, one rated at 2
amps
> >and
> > > one rated at 2.7 amps. John and I hooked one up to one of my
Hawkers
> >and
> > > measured it pumping in over 4 amps and it didn't seem to be breaking
> >much of
> > > a sweat, it did taper down after that.
> > >
> > > I would rather be doing a car then a motorcycle, but everything
about
> >doing
> > > a motorcycle costs less, and around here motorcycles get HOV access
> but
> > > electric cars don't. Also with the low budget I can buid a
> motorcycle,
> >and
> > > won't have to get rid of my Honda Insight, so I can have both an EV
> and
> > > Hybrid. If I were doing a car, I would have to sell the Insight.
> > >
> > > I would have loved doing a small truck. The problem is I was
> seriously
> > > considering buying Paul G (Neon)s VW truck. He only wants $7000 for
> it.
> > My
> > > wife was going to let me do it, until she caught me looking at
> pictures
> >of
> > > it. After making several disguested noises, she informed me that
she
> >hates
> > > Rabbits and VW trucks. We are working on 14 years of marriage, and
I
> >had no
> > > idea... Go figure. Anyway, knowing that I would probably have to
> spend
> >10K
> > > - 12K and many hours to DIY a truck when I could have bought one as
> nice
> >as
> > > Pauls for 7k spoiled those plans, so it is off to the motorcycle
races
>
> >for
> > > me.
> > >
> > > damon
> > >
> > > I put a picture of my donor here
> > > http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/suzukileft.jpg
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> > >
> >--
> >EVDL
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: tgleeman2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 2:36 AM
Subject: Re: cut-n-crimp
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 4:22 PM
> Subject: cut-n-crimp
>
>
> > I plan to go buy 00 gauge cable and use the flat lug
> > connectors to build replacement battery cables. I will
> > borrow a cable crimper from one of our local gurus and buddy
>
> Why don't you cut-n-crimp-n-solder those cables for a better,
> low ohm connection and seal? A propane torch and heavy guage rosin
> core, electronic grade solder works well.
>
Ho Bruce an' All;
I second those motions! If ya can get hold of a acthetelene torch, or
one of those the plumbers use for soldering copper plumbing together. Those
will make the solder really flow into the lug. A propane torch is too #$%^
slow, but yu CAN do it, if yur patient, retired, or just have alotta time. I
find that you did the shiny copper ends into the flux paste, stick it into
the terminal, and heat everything up til the solder flows into the terminal.
It IS tricky, as if yur too hot, yu'll "Wick" solder up the cable.Yuo will
get the hang of it in a few, though. Having a wet or damp washcloth to wipe
and cool things down, helps, too. For the Waylandesque touch, put the heat
shrink tubing, over the ends to cover the soldered joint. Looks nice, too. I
do them in a vice, on the bench, and if the cables long an' unwieldly, a
helper, or can prop things up on crap on the bench to hold it still while
soldering..
Yeah, it takes time, but when yur done and when running down the turnpike
with a 5 volt Sag@ 150-200 amps @120 volts is very heart warming, NOT Cable
warming.When ya got where yur going. Being able to touch all those Coool
connections, like after a 65-70 mph, 26 mile run, and EVerythings STONE
cold. One of lifes little pleasures! I did have a warm runner, short link
between two batteries this summer, just replaced it with a new soldered up
one. I don't know what I did wrong, but just replaced it. Advantage of not
crimping is ya can use yur lugs again! Just heat them up and pull cable out.
This is handy with the gaggle of @#$% terminals offered on replacment
batteries, just different enuf to NOT be a drop in bolt up thing at battrery
renewal.
I got around all that, last battrery replacment when I got Tony Ascrizzi
to recast me new automotive posts on my T 145's. He has taken battery
managment a step higher with his homemade casting molds , and special torch
head. He can make ya a NEW terminal on the battery! Just the thing if the
terminal is burned off, too. Tony had the molds made just a tad bigger than
stock, so when yur terminal goes on the post it is Open Wide! So when you
tighten it up, there is plenty of "Adjustment" left, so to speak Not ,as I
see too often, the bolt is tight, and the jaws odf the terminal are
together, tightning it doesn't do anything as they are bottomed out. The
Terminal jaws streatch, over time? And ya burn off a post!
This terminal and cell connecter thing I think is a learning process
with Newbees, smoking wires an' connecters is something EVerybody goes
through. But we know better! Ya need the 2/0 welding cable soldered in
terminals to get the juice ya paid for. I don't wanna start a soldering/
crimping war, but I have close to 50k miles, with no burnt posts or wiring!
It works for me! And those big beefy terminals an' cables look nice at car
shows<g>! "WOW! You need those big cables? "FAQ often at shows. I Say"
Theres no free lunch, ya gotta get that power to the motor somehow"
"Horsepower is horsepower, no matter how you carry it"
Not wanting to diss folks in the Crimping only crowd, it works, too. but
it HAS to be right! Proper crimper and wire size for it, makes the
differance. If it isnt tight enough, will get hot, under extreame current
draws, losten up in flite, oh, just a little, and ya got loss ,an' hot
terminals. Soldering has worked for me, got good at it, and try to share the
joy with EVerybody that will listen.
YMMV my two Ohms worth.
Seeya
Bob
> Happy EV'ing.
>
> Tom
>
--- End Message ---
