EV Digest 3850
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Solution for "Gone Postal's" broken tranny found
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) TS Price Increase
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Charging 8VGC-HC
by Nawaz Qureshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Adapter Questions
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Insurance idea: drive more, pay more
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: TS Price Increase
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Transmission noise question
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: TS Price Increase
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Adapter Questions
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: New Batteries Not So New
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Dog clutches
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Michelin Active Wheel
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) article: Segway: Concept Centaur
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Dog clutches
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Fuel Cell Tech. Job Opening
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: TS Price Increase
by Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) 34XCD
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Dog clutches
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: New Beetle Conversion Web Update
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: TS Price Increase
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Adapter Questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Fwd: Michelin Active Wheel
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) production of electric cars.
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Fwd: Michelin Active Wheel
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Michelin Active Wheel
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rod I have the Camera!!!
I bought it for looking at the back brushes of GP.
I have already spent the money.
Talk to me off line, it's here in my home shop.
RF remote... to the base then use a VCR or a recording camera to store it.
I bought it AFTER Joe and I did the single motor runs, and chickened out on
more amps.
Can we repower the back drives to get Gp at least running on the backs.
PLeeeease!!!
I will do the the work, you just need to say OK,. and find the reversing AND
parallel breaker sets.
Snide comment.
SO... man with Drag racing brains.. We gonna use a Bike type tranny on a
4700 lbs Truck??
What kinda a Nut case are you?
Where's the Muncie or the Np-833 Hemi gear set?? Where's the C6 or the
Th400.
Oh yea I forgot they are in the REAL Drag car the Mazda.
Ummm Yea, I can hear Real racers laughing and falling off thier chairs
already.
When are we going to do something Right for a change???
All the Indy cars and the F1 guys us dog clutch gears and slap shifters.
Nice we can't afford them......or the repairs on them when we twist them
into pretzels.
You get a $5500 tranny
I want a Turbine powered Genset for my monster charger....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: Solution for "Gone Postal's" broken tranny found
> The VW in question was running only 433 ft/lbs of torque and 516 HP
> when it ran 10s at 134 MPH with 15 inch wide wrinkle walls. It is
> most likely well above 500 ft/lbs in it's present 9 second
> configuration. This is no whimp car. It would eat a stock 1964 426
> Dodge hemi out of the hole like I eat Vipers with the "Maniac Mazda".
> As I said this car isn't even running the dog gear set up. Do you
> even know what I'm talking about Rich when I describe these gears? By
> your response on shifting, I think not. My brother used to drag race
> a Kawasocki Ninja. He had his dog gears bevel cut and all you had to
> do was barely touch the shifter and it sucked into the next gear
> without lifting your grip off full throttle. It really helps on your
> ET. You keep shredding tires and I'll keep setting records. Go do
> your homework on these gears before you talk about what kind of
> torque they can or can't take.
> By the way, did you bother to go to www.suckamps.com and look at
> the pictures of the brushes. If the front was on 1800 amps it doesn't
> show the signs of severe arcing that would indicate fireballing. I
> eventually would like to have the same fiber optic system that Bob
> Schneiveis had on the four 8 inch motored Tarus that allowed you to
> look at each motor's com. Come to think of it small remote cameras
> might just be the trick.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
> >And did you tell him we can make 500 ftlbs of torque 0 to 1000 rpm???
> >Mention that the Armature on a 9 incher is like 50 to 75 lbs, and that's
> >without a Flywheel.
> >And we have NO negative torque at all. We have no compression breaking
> >actions, to spin the motor down When shifting.
> > If in your clear and sober mind... you think the front drive train
can
> >take a 440 tunnel ram or a 460 with 850CFM and a stout 300deg Cam...Then
we
> >can talk about getting all the front drive is worth,
> > to the ground.
> >
> >I don't think the Dog clutches... will work well with the rotational
weight
> >that we have to deal with.
> >I would certainly like to be wrong on this point.... Bang shifting from a
> >stout first gear, would be a total blast to drive.
> >Rod as you know it's not the Hp, it's the torque that We should be
worring
> >about.
> > And getting that front motor to take 2000 amps without
fireballing....
> >
> >Some say it can't be done without movable brushes.....
> >And... and and.
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 12:15 PM
> >Subject: Solution for "Gone Postal's" broken tranny found
> >
> >
> >> While looking into options for our broken transaxle on "Gone Postal" I
> >> surfed to find the top FWD VW drag racers and what they run. I also
called
> >> one of our sponsors Autotech Sport Tuning www.autotech.com. It turns
out
> >> that Quaife makes a rather expensive but effective solution called a
six
> >> speed dog set. It includes all new gears except reverse. These gears
are
> >> like those on Japanese motorcycles where there are dogs that engage in
> >slots
> >> in opposing gears to engage the gears. They are 50% stronger than the
> >stock
> >> set up and 25% stronger than the Quaife synchro gear set. I spoke with
> >Hodi
> >> of Hodi's Performance who is a mechanic on the worlds quickest and
fastest
> >> FWD VW. It has 750 HP and turns 9.69 seconds at 145.16 MPH.
> >> http://www.gtrmotorsports.net/GTR_racing/bios/brianbio.html They just
run
> >> the synchro gear set up. They were breaking third gear when they were
> >> running 650 HP but now that they are running 750 HP they are breaking
> >fourth
> >> gear every ten runs. I asked why they didn't go to the dog set up and
he
> >> said it was because of the expense. The dog gear transmission gear set
> >would
> >> be sponsored to us for $5,500.00 which is and enormous amount of money
but
> >> redesigning, adding more weight and building a new transmission is
also
> >> expensive. We have no where near the horsepower they are running in
their
> >VW
> >> so I believe the dog gears would be the solution for our project. This
> >whole
> >> thing just reminds me of how far we still have to go to harness our
power
> >> and dial in this monster.
> >>
> >> Roderick Wilde
> >> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> >> www.suckamps.com
> >>
>
>
> --
>
> Roderick Wilde
> Vintage Golf Cart Parts
> Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other mature carts
> www.vintagegolfcartparts.com
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Phone: 360-385-4868
> Fax: 360-385-7922
> 107 Louisa Street
> Port Townsend, WA 98368
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It looks, effective Sept. 24, 2004, ThunderSky raised their prices quite
significantly. And they dropped their quantity discounts in favor of a
single pricing scheme:
http://www.everspring.net/product-battery-pricing.htm -- I had been hoping
that these batteries would be getting cheaper, not more expensive. Oh,
well.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Aaron Birenboim
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 7:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
Patrick Maston wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm finally going to get my Jet Electrica running this winter. I need
> new batteries and was wondering what are the pros and cons of using
> 6-volt vs. 8-volt batteries? My car will hold 20 T-105 batteries. So
> am I better off using 20 6-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of
> 120, or 18 8-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of 144? Will both
> battery packs last the same number of cycles?
I'm not the most experienced here, but it seems to me like I see
a lot of anecdotes where the range tables vs. lead weight
only seem to be true for the best batteries.
I seem to see a lot of 8v module cars on the tradin post that
are getting only 50-70% of their expected range, as compared
to cars using 6v cells. I'm starting to wonder if the 8v modules
actually under-perform w.r.t. their listed specs.
I have certainly seen this on my car too.
Most Solectria owners using east-penn gell batteries see
around 40 miles USABLE range. I bought my car with AGM
and 16 or 17 miles usable range. I got NEW floodies, and saw
range climb only to about 22. (Thats around 25 AH from 85AH rated cells)
Is it possible that I'd be able to get the expected 45AH out
of the ~75AH rated east-penn gells... instead of the 25AH I get
from G24 (85AH) trojans?
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 00:07, David Dymaxion wrote:
> This might be a wild idea, but what about machining a new flywheel
> that is 1/2 of the taperlock coupler? This should save some weight,
> be stronger, and might save a little overall length.
>
A good idea if you don't mind the extra machining involved. You might
also be able to switch to aluminum for the flywheel. Lighter and easier
to machine (might not last as long, but on an EV with minimal use of the
clutch it would be probably last longer than the car).
The Mike Brown/Electro Automotive taperlock design is a nice strong
connection, but can be difficult to machine and center during
installation, and can be tricky to remove later.
EVCC adapters used a straight thru hole and keyway, machined to .124"
diameter. (Sometimes a tight fit for ADC shafts) 1/4-20 setscrews above
the key lock it in place, and two more setscrews placed around the
circumference and tightened into small pockets drilled into the motor
shaft finish the job. At first glance it doesn't seem strong enough,
but EVCC never had a failure.
Doing the motor endplate sounds like more work than you want to get
into.
The raised ring is a good bet for centering, but an acceptable alignment
can be had by using countersunk flathead allen bolts for the four
mounting holes. Feel free to email me privately if my description is
not clear.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Insurance idea: drive more, pay more
> The problem I see with using the GPS is when the car is being towed behind
a
> motorhome. My car's odometer doesn't rack up miles when being towed, but
a
> GPS system would, and I would get charged for mileage not driven.
>
> I've always believed that an EV with 100 to 150 miles range would be the
> ideal towed car. Use it for all the local driving and recharge back at
the
> camp site.
>
> Dave Davidson
> Glen Burnie, MD
> 1993 Dodge TEVan
> Hi All;
GPS, another Big Brother infurnal device! If the insurance co's want to
do us ALL a favor, they can go after the @#$% uninsured driver! I get tired
of another 40-50 bux added to MY bill EVery 6 months, to cover him. Of
course it isnt politically correct. Recently New Haven CT cops got a
computer device to run checks on cars in the street, Run a number check to
see if THAT tag is really the one that belongs to THIS car, if it, the tag
or car is stolen? Worked great, they harvested 11 the first night!Towing
them in, YES!!! Swiping tags with up to date stickers is popular urban sport
here. NY got around this by windshield stickers as to current(legal)
registration, NOT the more portable tag. All this checking takes time and
money, and what are you gunna do with all those impounded cars, anyhow??You
sghoulda seen the howls of protest from the doo gooder folks in the
editorials in the paper!
Recently a New Haven car rental co put GPS'S in their cars, and if you
were speeding, fined you via your credit card, a horrendous amount. Folks
took then to court and won, not to mention the bad publicity they got. When
I rented a Thrifty car in Seattle to drive up to Vancouver, they alluded to
one of these devices as to they would know IF I took the car beyond the
geographical area, I was allowed. I was only goin' to Canada. They didn't
have a problem with that.
I sure could find them handy, as , a guy, I hate to just stop and ask
directions, takes the sport out of it<g>! But woulda liked in my recent
oddesy, to FIND a place without hunting.Get Onstar, I guess? Or a laptop and
Mapquest? I guess with the Patriot Act they could GPS yur car, and trak your
movements? As easy as the paper trail I left going out, gas, motels, ATM's,
to the Left Coast.
To comment on below. Yes this thing can/ will be used by folks, Govt and
their ilk to watch you, then spammers, ad folks for junk mail. "You passed
through our city on 2-6-04 and you didn't stop at our beautiful shopping
maul, heres a bunch of valuable coopons for your next trip!"Get enough of
that already, had two daze worth of wading through junk mail, stuff that
LOOKS important and stuff that IS important in junk mail format. IE no
return address, etc.
End of Rant!
Back to EV racing!
Bob
> >From: "Cameron-RR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Insurance idea: drive more, pay more
> >Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:00:57 -0400
> >
> >Everyone,
> >
> >The fact is, you already "pay as you drive" in a general sense. I'm an
> >insurance agent, and we always ask the question, "How far do you drive to
> >work/school one way?" Most of you have probably heard the terms
"Pleasure
> >Use" "Work Use" and "Business Use" These are rating scales based upon
how
> >much you drive.
> >
> >Progressive Insurance, I believe, is trying to use GPS systems in cars to
> >more accurately determine the amount of exposure (driving time) of their
> >insureds. I think this has 2 major pitfalls:
> >
> >1. It will be much more difficult for people to budget their insurance
> >costs. Every month you make an extra long trip to grandma's house,
you're
> >going to get a bigger bill. The fluctuations in the monthly bills will
> >undoubtedly catch some people off guard.
> >2. Once the GPS tracking technology gets spread throughout the
> >automobile/insurance industries, don't you think other parties will use
> >that
> >information too? i.e. Big Brother-Federal Government?
> >
> >I personally don't need to make public my whereabouts 24/7/365.
> >
> >What are your thoughts?
> >-Cameron
One more! Whythehell can't insurance co's sell me a policy on ME!
Not my car, it can;t drive itself anywhere, I pay a fortune as I have a
bunch of cars, big as I am, I can't drive more than one at a time. If I were
driving the Blue Meany and banged it up, it wouldn't be on John's nickel,
but mine.If EVERYbody was covered the same way? And NO car insurance co will
sell you more than a 6 month policy!! Well I can answer that. They can raise
yur rates twice a year, unlike, say, homeowners insurance.
> >Cameron A. Shandersky
> >9655 Waterford Place #207
> >Loveland, OH 45140
> >(Until our House is done)
> >H.
> >W. 513.870.2580
> >M. 513.708.2544
> >----- Original Message -----
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I emailed TS 6 months ago, they gave me a price which was quite a bit
cheaper than Everspring. Can people deal with TS directly, or is Everspring
the only distributor?
Don
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: October 13, 2004 9:08 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: TS Price Increase
It looks, effective Sept. 24, 2004, ThunderSky raised their prices quite
significantly. And they dropped their quantity discounts in favor of a
single pricing scheme:
http://www.everspring.net/product-battery-pricing.htm -- I had been hoping
that these batteries would be getting cheaper, not more expensive. Oh,
well.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Aaron Birenboim
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 7:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
Patrick Maston wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm finally going to get my Jet Electrica running this winter. I need
> new batteries and was wondering what are the pros and cons of using
> 6-volt vs. 8-volt batteries? My car will hold 20 T-105 batteries. So
> am I better off using 20 6-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of
> 120, or 18 8-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of 144? Will
> both battery packs last the same number of cycles?
I'm not the most experienced here, but it seems to me like I see a lot of
anecdotes where the range tables vs. lead weight only seem to be true for
the best batteries.
I seem to see a lot of 8v module cars on the tradin post that are getting
only 50-70% of their expected range, as compared to cars using 6v cells.
I'm starting to wonder if the 8v modules actually under-perform w.r.t. their
listed specs.
I have certainly seen this on my car too.
Most Solectria owners using east-penn gell batteries see
around 40 miles USABLE range. I bought my car with AGM
and 16 or 17 miles usable range. I got NEW floodies, and saw range climb
only to about 22. (Thats around 25 AH from 85AH rated cells) Is it possible
that I'd be able to get the expected 45AH out of the ~75AH rated east-penn
gells... instead of the 25AH I get from G24 (85AH) trojans?
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I went through two rebuilds of the Borg Warner T5 transmission in my '91
Chevy S-10 about 40k miles ago. Both were brought on by the lack of a
pilot nib on the end of the input shaft. The second rebuild replaced
the input shaft with a new one that included the nib and a new EVCC
coupler, including pilot bearing, and adapter plate.
All has been well, and still is as far as transmission function is
concerned. The problem is a new noise from the transmission. There is
a soft buzzing noise coming from the gear shift lever now. It is most
noticable in first and second gears. It has a harmonic peak in
amplitude about 3k rpm in second gear. Also, when I shift the
transmission while sitting still, it clicks with a more metalic sound
that it used to.
This transmission has been just plain noisy since I have owned it. Even
with all new bearings after the rebuilds, it still sounds like a mixmaster.
I think that there is some sort of ball detent system in the
transmission to keep the internal shift linkage tight so that it doesn't
rattle. Could this have failed?
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT Nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe to pay for their brand new web pages :^)
http://www.thunder-sky.com/en/index.htm
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:08 PM
Subject: TS Price Increase
> It looks, effective Sept. 24, 2004, ThunderSky raised their prices quite
> significantly. And they dropped their quantity discounts in favor of a
> single pricing scheme:
> http://www.everspring.net/product-battery-pricing.htm -- I had been hoping
> that these batteries would be getting cheaper, not more expensive. Oh,
> well.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Aaron Birenboim
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 7:59 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
>
> Patrick Maston wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm finally going to get my Jet Electrica running this winter. I need
> > new batteries and was wondering what are the pros and cons of using
> > 6-volt vs. 8-volt batteries? My car will hold 20 T-105 batteries. So
> > am I better off using 20 6-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of
> > 120, or 18 8-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of 144? Will both
> > battery packs last the same number of cycles?
>
> I'm not the most experienced here, but it seems to me like I see
> a lot of anecdotes where the range tables vs. lead weight
> only seem to be true for the best batteries.
>
> I seem to see a lot of 8v module cars on the tradin post that
> are getting only 50-70% of their expected range, as compared
> to cars using 6v cells. I'm starting to wonder if the 8v modules
> actually under-perform w.r.t. their listed specs.
>
> I have certainly seen this on my car too.
> Most Solectria owners using east-penn gell batteries see
> around 40 miles USABLE range. I bought my car with AGM
> and 16 or 17 miles usable range. I got NEW floodies, and saw
> range climb only to about 22. (Thats around 25 AH from 85AH rated cells)
> Is it possible that I'd be able to get the expected 45AH out
> of the ~75AH rated east-penn gells... instead of the 25AH I get
> from G24 (85AH) trojans?
>
> --
> Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
> Albuquerque, NM |
> aaron_at_birenboim.com |
> >http://aaron.boim.com |
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:21 PM 10/13/04 -0500, you wrote:
On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 00:07, David Dymaxion wrote:
> This might be a wild idea, but what about machining a new flywheel
> that is 1/2 of the taperlock coupler? This should save some weight,
> be stronger, and might save a little overall length.
>
A good idea if you don't mind the extra machining involved. You might
also be able to switch to aluminum for the flywheel.
Not if this is also part of the taperlock hub!
Lighter and easier
to machine (might not last as long, but on an EV with minimal use of the
clutch it would be probably last longer than the car).
The Mike Brown/Electro Automotive taperlock design is a nice strong
connection, but can be difficult to machine and center during
installation, and can be tricky to remove later.
There is no customer machining necessary with our adaptors. The centering
is built into the design. As for removing it later, loosening all of the
pull-in screws and tapping them gently with a brass hammer will usually
break the taper. If that doesn't do it, a large gear puller with a
threaded shaft smaller than 3/4" diameter will do it.
EVCC adapters used a straight thru hole and keyway, machined to .124"
diameter. (Sometimes a tight fit for ADC shafts) 1/4-20 setscrews above
the key lock it in place, and two more setscrews placed around the
circumference and tightened into small pockets drilled into the motor
shaft finish the job. At first glance it doesn't seem strong enough,
but EVCC never had a failure.
This type of hub DOES fail. We have replaced several of them for people
who bought their adaptors elsewhere. I have a gory example in my shop to
show why you DON'T rely on set screws.
Doing the motor endplate sounds like more work than you want to get
into.
The raised ring is a good bet for centering, but an acceptable alignment
can be had by using countersunk flathead allen bolts for the four
mounting holes.
Just because there is a raised ring does not mean it is precision machined
to be concentric. Confirm this before relying on it.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
16. If the performance of any one battery during
running test under the warrenty period, is not
equal to the other batteries in the same group
shall be replaced at no cost.
I am curious as to the wording of this. Did you mean that if one battery
does not meet spec, they will replace all batteries in that group? Or just
the individual battery? What was the running test? And did you pay a premium
for the extra service?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:51 PM
Subject: Dog clutches
> now now you two, you are both right.
> A standard gearbox retrofitted to have dog clutches requires a
> little lift to switch or they will start falling out under load in short
> order , but EV throttle lift could be electronic without moving your
> foot :-)
>
Nice idea, except I can't get my driver to lift until something breaks.
It's pretty clear Rod won't do this, so it's up to hardware and software to
make it really happen.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The third leap into the future comes with Michelin Active Wheel. This wheel actually
houses a traction engine. Drivers of cars fitted with four such wheels will be able to
select two or four-wheel drive.
Michelin Active Wheel also features an active suspension system which delivers
dramatically improved comfort, handling and stability. Indeed, this integrated
suspension
system will enable drivers to control vehicle behavior when breaking and turning.
This wheel is designed for battery or fuel-cell powered electric vehicles. With
Michelin
Active Wheel, such vehicles will no longer need any gearbox, clutch, transmission
shaft,
universal joint or anti-roll bar.
http://www.michelin.com/corporate/actualites/en/actu_affich.jsp?id=13730&lang=EN&codeRubrique=4&langue=EN
This is the type of advantage electric drive offers. 2 or 4 W drive but it could be 1
or
3 W drive and it could be both left wheels or one left front and one Rt. Rear. And all
as
fast and easy as flipping a switch. Sounds like all military vehicles should be using
this technology.
Problem with one wheel? Unplug it, take it off and put on a replacement.
A good example of how electric drive can produce not just cleaner but better vehicles.
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--- Begin Message ---
Concept Centaur, a new 4-wheel design study from Segway:
http://origin.www.segway.com/centaur/
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) h:(905)279-5885 c:(416)892-5885
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about get rid of the gearbox and just do a series/parallel switch on the
field of the front motor. If it's not there it can't break. There's enough
batteries, controllers, and motors in that thing you should not need a
transmission.
Or get rid of the gearbox to make room for two motors up front. Just need a
diff with a spur gear in place of the bevel ring gear, like the diffs on the
old steam cars.
Thanks,
Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Rudman
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 11:06 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Dog clutches
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:51 PM
Subject: Dog clutches
> > now now you two, you are both right.
> > A standard gearbox retrofitted to have dog clutches requires a
> > little lift to switch or they will start falling out under load in short
> > order , but EV throttle lift could be electronic without moving your
> > foot :-)
> >
>
> Nice idea, except I can't get my driver to lift until something breaks.
> It's pretty clear Rod won't do this, so it's up to hardware and software
> to
> make it really happen.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Saw this in the local Bakersfield, CA paper. Thought maybe someone on
the list might be interested.
Lonnie Borntreger
==============================
FUEL CELL ENERGY SERVICE ENGINEER/ TECHNICIAN TRAINEE Starting Salary:
$40,000+ DOE Fuel cell energy services co. seeks indiv to train &
qualify as a Fuel Cell Energy Services Technician. Req. 90-120 days of
annual travel. Work principally in CA & western states. Co. provides
training, travel expenses, service vehicle, competitive salary, benefits
& oppty for advancement. For additional min requirements & job
description please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just so you know, the price of all Lithium batteries
has started going up. The explaination I've received
from more than one Chinese supplier is "Iraq war" or
increasing petroleum costs have made their raw
materials price skyrocket. Turns out the Li-ion
batteries use lots of petro-chemicals to make :)
-Sam
--- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It looks, effective Sept. 24, 2004, ThunderSky
> raised their prices quite
> significantly. And they dropped their quantity
> discounts in favor of a
> single pricing scheme:
>
http://www.everspring.net/product-battery-pricing.htm
> -- I had been hoping
> that these batteries would be getting cheaper, not
> more expensive. Oh,
> well.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Aaron Birenboim
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 7:59 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
>
> Patrick Maston wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm finally going to get my Jet Electrica running
> this winter. I need
> > new batteries and was wondering what are the pros
> and cons of using
> > 6-volt vs. 8-volt batteries? My car will hold 20
> T-105 batteries. So
> > am I better off using 20 6-volt batteries for a
> total pack voltage of
> > 120, or 18 8-volt batteries for a total pack
> voltage of 144? Will both
> > battery packs last the same number of cycles?
>
> I'm not the most experienced here, but it seems to
> me like I see
> a lot of anecdotes where the range tables vs. lead
> weight
> only seem to be true for the best batteries.
>
> I seem to see a lot of 8v module cars on the tradin
> post that
> are getting only 50-70% of their expected range, as
> compared
> to cars using 6v cells. I'm starting to wonder if
> the 8v modules
> actually under-perform w.r.t. their listed specs.
>
> I have certainly seen this on my car too.
> Most Solectria owners using east-penn gell batteries
> see
> around 40 miles USABLE range. I bought my car with
> AGM
> and 16 or 17 miles usable range. I got NEW
> floodies, and saw
> range climb only to about 22. (Thats around 25 AH
> from 85AH rated cells)
> Is it possible that I'd be able to get the expected
> 45AH out
> of the ~75AH rated east-penn gells... instead of the
> 25AH I get
> from G24 (85AH) trojans?
>
> --
> Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
> Albuquerque, NM |
> aaron_at_birenboim.com |
> >http://aaron.boim.com |
>
>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does this battery have the two holes from top to bottom?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another wild idea for GP:
Get a single motor with output shafts at both ends. Hook up a torque
converter with a high stall rpm to each shaft, and hook each
axle-shaft to the torque converter. You'd lose some efficiency to the
torque converter slip, but would gain a bit back in that the motor
would be at a more efficient rpm for the launch, and no gear losses.
This would be smaller and lighter than any transmission, and would
provide equal power to each wheel like a limited slip, yet allow
turning.
=====
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Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
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--- Begin Message ---
Great site Don!
I hope you realize the white connector on the Bosch pot is
temporary one for testing. It is not vibration- or waterproof
Molex connector not suitable for automotive outdoor use. Same
applies to the mating connector on the harness.
Cut them off and hard wire the pot when you'll do real
installation.
Victor
Don Cameron wrote:
I have put a few neat things up on the web site:
* 3d CAD layouts of the front engine compartment showing general layouts of
the components
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_Layout.html
* a great big monster "TO DO" list of all the work completed, in-progress
and to be done.
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_HowTo.html
Check it out - the CAD stuff is fun to play with and look at. All helpful
feedback is appreciated.
thanks
Don
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
When I emailed TS 6 months ago, they gave me a price which was quite a bit
cheaper than Everspring. Can people deal with TS directly, or is Everspring
the only distributor?
Don
You can, but the outcome is in general unpredictable.
Therefore I don't, although offer TS cells.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electro Automotive wrote:
The raised ring is a good bet for centering, but an acceptable alignment
can be had by using countersunk flathead allen bolts for the four
mounting holes.
Just because there is a raised ring does not mean it is precision
machined to be concentric. Confirm this before relying on it.
Mike Brown
For a good motor the front flange centering ring is concentric.
For Siemens motors I'm familiar with the tolerance is H7 per ISO
standard. The whole point of centering ring is to center, and if
it is not round, it is a junk motor.
Do not rely on the mounting holes for centering - they are not
drilled with high enough precision (there is no need for it really).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One problem with these motor-in-the-wheel solutions: unsprung weight!
One of the biggest challenges with tires, wheels and suspension components has been
keeping the
weight as low as possible. Even at relatively low speed you can lose traction going
around a
corner on a rough road. Shock absorbers have to absorb/overcome the inertia of a tire
bouncing up
so the springs can try and push it back down to the ground. And a tire has no traction
unless it's
firmly on the ground. By adding the weight of a motor to the wheel weight you can
compound the
problem.
Having the motor in the wheel is great for a city bus (or NEV), but not a passenger
car.
Dave Cover
--- Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:e> Subject: Michelin Active Wheel
> To: EV world <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> CC: EV SJS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Brad Berman - hybridcars.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> The third leap into the future comes with Michelin Active Wheel. This wheel actually
> houses a traction engine. Drivers of cars fitted with four such wheels will be able
> to
> select two or four-wheel drive.
>
> Michelin Active Wheel also features an active suspension system which delivers
> dramatically improved comfort, handling and stability. Indeed, this integrated
> suspension
> system will enable drivers to control vehicle behavior when breaking and turning.
> This wheel is designed for battery or fuel-cell powered electric vehicles. With
> Michelin
> Active Wheel, such vehicles will no longer need any gearbox, clutch, transmission
> shaft,
> universal joint or anti-roll bar.
>
>
http://www.michelin.com/corporate/actualites/en/actu_affich.jsp?id=13730&lang=EN&codeRubrique=4&langue=EN
>
> This is the type of advantage electric drive offers. 2 or 4 W drive but it could be
> 1 or
> 3 W drive and it could be both left wheels or one left front and one Rt. Rear. And
> all as
> fast and easy as flipping a switch. Sounds like all military vehicles should be using
> this technology.
> Problem with one wheel? Unplug it, take it off and put on a replacement.
>
> A good example of how electric drive can produce not just cleaner but better
> vehicles.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BYD sales manager Wang Jianjun said the company believes it has mastered the technology
needed to manufacture electric cars, but cannot proceed until national rules are set.
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/thestandard/news_detail_frame.cfm?articleid=51477&intcatid=2
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--- Begin Message ---
A good point, but I think its sprung weight. Anything moving with the suspension is
sprung weight. All else is unsprung.
--- Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One problem with these motor-in-the-wheel solutions: unsprung weight!
>
> One of the biggest challenges with tires, wheels and suspension components has been
> keeping the
> weight as low as possible. Even at relatively low speed you can lose traction going
> around a
> corner on a rough road. Shock absorbers have to absorb/overcome the inertia of a tire
> bouncing up
> so the springs can try and push it back down to the ground. And a tire has no
> traction
> unless it's
> firmly on the ground. By adding the weight of a motor to the wheel weight you can
> compound the
> problem.
>
> Having the motor in the wheel is great for a city bus (or NEV), but not a passenger
> car.
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
> --- Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:e> Subject: Michelin Active Wheel
> > To: EV world <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > CC: EV SJS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > "Brad Berman - hybridcars.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > The third leap into the future comes with Michelin Active Wheel. This wheel
> > actually
> > houses a traction engine. Drivers of cars fitted with four such wheels will be able
> to
> > select two or four-wheel drive.
> >
> > Michelin Active Wheel also features an active suspension system which delivers
> > dramatically improved comfort, handling and stability. Indeed, this integrated
> suspension
> > system will enable drivers to control vehicle behavior when breaking and turning.
> > This wheel is designed for battery or fuel-cell powered electric vehicles. With
> Michelin
> > Active Wheel, such vehicles will no longer need any gearbox, clutch, transmission
> shaft,
> > universal joint or anti-roll bar.
> >
> >
>
http://www.michelin.com/corporate/actualites/en/actu_affich.jsp?id=13730&lang=EN&codeRubrique=4&langue=EN
> >
> > This is the type of advantage electric drive offers. 2 or 4 W drive but it could
> > be 1
> or
> > 3 W drive and it could be both left wheels or one left front and one Rt. Rear. And
> all as
> > fast and easy as flipping a switch. Sounds like all military vehicles should be
> > using
> > this technology.
> > Problem with one wheel? Unplug it, take it off and put on a replacement.
> >
> > A good example of how electric drive can produce not just cleaner but better
> vehicles.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> > http://vote.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Dekker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> A good point, but I think its sprung weight. Anything moving
> with the suspension is sprung weight. All else is unsprung.
Nope, it is almost exactly the opposite.
A simple way to consider it is this:
Envision a vehicle with one wheel slowly driving over a 6inch high
obstacle. The wheel moves up the entire 6 inches; the vehicle body
doesn't move up/down at all. The wheel is 100% unsprung weight, the
vehicle body is 100% sprung weight. Anything between the wheel and
vehicle body moves vertically some distance between 0 and 6 inches; if
it travels 3 inches up when the wheel moves 6 inches, then it is 50%
unsprung.
This is just a first approximation, it gets more complicated when you
consider things such as shocks and springs, one end of which moves a
considerable distance with the wheel, while the other end remains
'stationary' with the vehicle body. (One of the motivations, aside from
fashion, for inverted forks on motorcycles is to reduce the unsprung
weight by reducing the weight of the part of the fork that moves up and
down with the wheel.)
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
