EV Digest 3865
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Scooter battery balancer
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Scooter battery balancer
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Lightened flywheel
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: battery hold down
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: expert advice needed
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Lightened Flywheel vs. Lightweight Flywheel?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: expert advice needed
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Scooter battery balancer
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Curtis 1231C Heatsink
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: expert advice needed
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: expert advice needed
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Scooter battery balancer
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Curtis 1231C Heatsink
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Scooter battery balancer
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Curtis 1231C Heatsink
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: expert advice needed
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Scooter battery balancer
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: K&W Website
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Damon,
That certainly would one solution. I paid $69 for my 24v 3amp charger. Four 12v 3 amp
chargers would be $160. My 11 year old will be using this as well and I don't think I
can count on him to hook up 4 chargers. I'd be afraid that I would have be bigger
balance problem. I can carry 1 Soneil around with the scooter but not 4.
Joe,
If I put 2 batteries as buddy pairs would I put the best matched or the worst matched
pair together? Does one hold the other back?
Thanks,
Steve
In a message dated 10/21/2004 10:32:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Markus Lorch <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]> writes:
>damon henry wrote:
>
> > If it were me, and I just had 4 lead acid batteries to charge, I'd
>get >4 of the Soneil chargers. The cost is around the same as the regs,
>and >each battery will get exactly the charge it needs everytime.
>
>
>I agree with damon, but was that idea mentioned about a zener diode and
>a light bulb.... are there (affordable) zener diodes that could shunt a
>real charging current, i.e. 25A?
>
>In my elec-trak I don't worry about balancing my 3 batteries 100% but I
>would like to prevent the internal charger (about 25A) from cooking my
>SLA batteries.
>
>I.e., would it be possible to use a zener and a high wattage resistor to
>limit the charge current to my batteries once the batteries reach
>13.8-14V? It seems to me that in the worst case I have do dissipate
>15V*25A per battery....thats 375Watt .. the largest zeners I find go up
>to 50W and they seem to be expensive.
>
>I guess it would be easier to have a "voltage detector" that shuts off
>the unregulated charger and turns on my three 12V 3A "smart" chargers
>once the first battery comes up to say 13.5V or so.
>
>Markus
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I love it! A charger worth 10x the cost of the toy jeep, and 50x the cost
of the batteries!
Can't say enough good things about my PFC-30 :-)
- Steven Ciciora
> My son's Jeep uses two SVR-14 batteries. I normally charge them in
> parallel
> and discharge them in series with no problems. I have been experimenting
> with two Rudman Mk2-b Regulators feeding back into a PFC-20 to turn it
> down
> at the end of charge. It reduces the charge time by a third. Series
> charging
> is faster because 20 amps of bulk current is a higher wattage at 24 Volts
> than it is at 12 Volts.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I was autocrossing my mitsubish PU I lightened the flywheel from
22+ lbs to about 14lbs. Trucks start out with heavy flywheels.
I layed it face down on the mill and hollowed out the back leaving ribs
radiating from the center to the outer edge. I was very unsure about it
but it is still going after 100,000 miles.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my old non-isolation system, The battery charger was a 3 phase 250 volts
AC input on a 200 amp fuse disconnect straight off three 25 KVA oil
fill transformer tap at 7200 volt primary and connected up in Delta for
120/240 3 phase 60 Hz.
A three phase full wave bridge was used, which would put out 280 volts DC
through a One Henry reactor coil to the batteries. Half of the diodes in the
bridge was 300 amp SCRs, control by a trigger circuit to dial up the ampere
as need.
A Size four Sq D 3 pole contactor was used to turn on the power to the
bridge.
The batteries at that time were two volt cells, technically call jars. Are
separate units, Cells are part of a battery pack.
These cells, were install in a aluminum box and the jars post were link
together and welded. A battery sealent compound was than pour between the
jars top to seal it.
After running this car 1056 miles on a test track for 24 hours, using this
fast type charging to 80% which took 15 to 20 minutes, the battery
connections started to conduct to the aluminum battery boxes. These then
were change to apoxy type fiberglass type boxes and built a complete
isolation system, a onboard battery charger of 50 amps at 120 or 250 volts
VAC was also install in a fiberglass enclosure so as to isolated from the
frame of the vehicle.
Its like a off board battery charger, as where if you are charging the
batteries, there is no battery volt reference from the battery terminals to
the frame of the EV.
There is only a potential of voltage from the battery terminals while
charging to very wet ground surface, if you are standing on that surface
bare footed.
Never done that, but this should trip the double up 60 amp SQ D 120/240
Ground Fault Circuit Breakers.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: battery hold down
> Wow, that's quite involved from my erector set 1.5" angle bolt together
> battery frames. What voltage are you running to see arcing? I'm at 120Vdc
> with a 20A breaker center tapped to the frame similar to the Canadian
> standards I saw when working with battery backup Magnetic Bearing natural
> gas installations. There is a sonalert with resistor on a diode bridge
> across the 30A breaker so if a terminal or cable rubs through somewhere,
> you
> get a Beeeeep but can still keep driving until you get home. The battery
> voltage from the uP shows approximetely where (which battery) the short to
> ground is so it can be quickly fixed. Thus the maximum voltage with
> respect
> to ground ia 1/2 pack or 60V at the ends, no weird floating HV problems
> and
> also allowes an emergency tap to get home if the DC-DC converter fails, my
> favorite feature, as this has been used a couple times in the last 30
> years.
> Mark www.solectrol.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 2:16 PM
> Subject: RE: battery hold down
>
>
> > Roland, a couple of questions:
> >
> > 1. where did you get the "acid proof" fans
> >
> > 2. what is the make of the "acid proof" rubber coating?
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> > Sent: July 6, 2004 8:19 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: battery hold down
> >
> > The best design I found for battery hold downs, is the battery enclosure
> > structure itself. My old battery racks or boxes were made out of metal
> and
> > aluminum. This was NOT GOOD, THERE IS TOO MUCH CONDUCTANCE FROM THE
> > BATTERY CASES TO THE METAL RACKS OR CONTAINERS.
> >
> > No matter how much you clean the batteries with all the battery cleaning
> > solutions, I can still measure a voltage leak from the battery case to
> > the
> > frame.
> >
> > I place a rubber mat for the batteries to set on, but I found that the
> metal
> > which was acid proof epoxy painted, was corroding the metal.
> >
> > With the lights out, while charging, I could see some arking between the
> > battery cases and frame. AGAIN NOT GOOD.
> >
> > So on my next redesign and modifications of the EV System, I made
> > battery
> > boxes enclosures that would ISOLATED the batteries from any metal frames
> or
> > the frame of the car by using 1/4 to 1/2 thick fiberglass material.
> >
> > Also all AC inputs and Battery charger components are also ISOLATED in a
> > fiberglass containers.
> >
> > The fiberglass enclosures are coated with that same type of epoxy
> > coating
> > that is applied to bath tubs and showers which you can pick up as a kit
> > at
> > any home improvement center.
> >
> > The size of these containers is the size of the battery dim. plus
> > allowing
> > for a 1/4 to 5/15 inch space around each battery.
> >
> > Before I set the batteries in these containers, I place about 1 inch
> thick
> > bed of baking soda in the bottom for the batteries to set on.
> >
> > To hold down the batteries, I used aluminum TEE-ANGLE which is 2 inch
> > wide
> > by 2 inch stub that goes down between the batteries.
> >
> > THIS T-BAR IF FIRST COATED WITH THAT RUBBER TOOL DIP STUFF WHICH IS ACID
> > PROOF. or
> >
> > Take it to the place where they apply coatings to pickup beds. They can
> > apply it in a smooth coating.
> >
> > The ends of the T-BAR's have a welded on flange that butts against the
> sides
> > of the battery boxes. Make this flange long, so it will go all the way
> up,
> > In my case, just about to the fiberglass hinge covers, which are also
> > seal
> > down with double groove gaskets.
> >
> > The T-Bar flanges are bolted through with a 3/8 or 7/16 stainless bolt
> > in
> to
> > a nut plate which is mounted on the outside of the box. The long flange
> on
> > the T-Bar allows for different battery sizes.
> >
> > The nut plate that is mounted on the outside of the box, is a long flat
> > steel bar stock of 3/16 thick by 2 inches wide with 3/8 or 7/16 nuts
> welded
> > to it.
> >
> > This nut plate assembly is then fiberglass and build up to where it may
> > be
> a
> > 1 inch thick and 4 inches wide.
> >
> > These battery enclosures have a high pressure filter intake air input
> > and
> a
> > low pressure exhaust air with acid proof fans and 1/4 PVC acid proof
> > flex
> > hoses.
> >
> > After two years of this installation, The batteries are dust free,
> > clean,
> > no conductance to ground.
> >
> > In a isolated ground system, where the vehicle frame is not AC ground, a
> > ground detection system is used as when any Line wire is shorted to the
> > non-grounded frame, it will indicated this or will not allow startup of
> any
> > AC input.
> >
> > These units are normally used in explosive proof areas and made by
> > Crouse
> > Hinds Company. A cheaper why to do this, is to used a Ground Fault
> > Recepticle circuit to a control relay which will shut down a AC
> > contactor
> > that provides power to the EV.
> >
> > In stalling the Ground Fault Recepticle, just install the AC input to
> > the
> > FEED screw terminals and the relay circuit to the LOAD screw terminals.
> > No connector plug is required.
> >
> > Also do not connected up a ground wire coming out of the recepticle to
> > the
> > frame of the vehicle. Install the recepticle as so it will not be self
> > grounding to any metal if using a input or feed ground to it.
> >
> > A Ground Fault Recepticle does not need a ground wire to it for it to
> work.
> > The recepticle reads the voltage differences between the two lines, Hot
> and
> > Neutral or L1 and N or call ungrounded lines.
> >
> > If this voltage difference is greater then what is desired for maximum
> > safety, it will open the circuit, open the control relay, which inturn
> open
> > A AC contactor or shut down the battery charger.
> >
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 12:03 AM
> > Subject: Re: battery hold down
> >
> >
> > > thanks all,
> > >
> > > seems like i need to do a little re design. i must
> > > have some metal around here someplace. but metal that
> > > is as strong as 3/4 ply is so heavy unless it is
> > > aluminum and i can't weld alum. what about
> > > fiberglassing the ply and using threaded rod in the
> > > existing t-nuts with wing nuts and fender washers on
> > > top. won't look as clean as those bolts on mr
> > > waylands car but would probably suffice for the year
> > > or two i am going to use these batteries. stil
> > > thinking on it and will not be able to work on the car
> > > again till next week end so if any one has any more
> > > ideas i'd appreciate them
> > >
> > > thanks
> > > kevs
> > >
> > >
> > > --- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > At 10:18 PM 5/07/04 -0700, Lee Hart wrote:
> > > > >keith vansickle wrote:
> > > > > > I drilled the plywood bases <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > >Reading this, my first concern is that you are
> > > > using plywood <snip>
> > > >
> > > > Which will also possibly (depending on thickness)
> > > > allow your batteries to
> > > > move relative to each other, If you use flexible
> > > > interconnects, not a
> > > > problem, but if buss bars, may be. Also the weight
> > > > of the strong-enough
> > > > plywood is probably more than the weight of my
> > > > constructed steel
> > > > fabrication. And NASA have has enough embarrasments
> > > > from Australians, they
> > > > would't want me ;)
> > > >
> > > > >Next, T-nuts are pretty weak fasteners.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what the vehicle design rules state
> > > > where you are, Australian
> > > > Rules want the batteries to stay put in 20G. My
> > > > hold-dows won't keep them
> > > > there for that, but if my vehicle is undergoing 20G
> > > > I would't survive
> > > > anyway. So the hold-downs that I used (two 8mm
> > > > threaded rod) should be
> > > > adequate for the life of the vehicle, or at least
> > > > the batteries.
> > > >
> > > > >If it were me, I'd make a metal floor for the
> > > > battery box, or at least
> > > > >locate metal where these bolts need to go. Use
> > > > threaded rod with nuts
> > > > >and fender washers (large diameter washers) to make
> > > > studs sticking up
> > > > >from the floor of the battery box. Slide the
> > > > batteries down over these
> > > > >threaded rods.
> > > >
> > > > Which is exactly what I am in the process of doing.
> > > > When they don't line
> > > > up, you can steer the battery over the ends of the
> > > > rods, easily. But I'm
> > > > also putting an aluminum heating plate onto the
> > > > rods, spaced off the base
> > > > of the box. Base-spacers-plate-batteries. Simple
> > > > when you say it quickly.
> > > > But because of the spacers and desire to use some
> > > > buss bars, I also instead
> > > > of using individual washers on top of the batteries,
> > > > a plate across the group.
> > > >
> > > > >Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> > > > leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > James Massey
> > > > Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
> > > > '78 Daihatsu 1300kg truck under conversion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thanks for that
i can't get alltrax in the uk and you get a huge
shipping and import duty bill when you order from the
us
i found this out when i bought the etek motor online
i wonder why the curtis is so bad ?
if there isn't a better curtis available than yours
then i will have no choice than to buy from the US and
pay up then wait 3wks for delivery
regards
richard
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would get an Alltrax. I have the AXE-4844 on my
> motorcycle which replaced
> aCurtis 1204. In my opinion, Alltrax's are much
> better then the Curtii in
> both performance and configurability. Not sure if
> you can get one in the UK
> easily, but it would definitely be worth the
> trouble. My alltrax has no
> problem pushing me (250lbs) plus the steel framed
> motorcycle with 200lbs of
> batteries up to 60+ mph with no transmission. I
> never have any problems
> keeping up with traffic. The Curtis was awful with
> the same setup. It was
> only a 275amp model, but it would take forever to
> ramp up to that 275 amps.
> The Alltrax gives me full power right away.
>
> damon
>
> >From: richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: expert advice needed
> >Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:56:30 +0100 (BST)
> >
> >hi guys
> >i'm making progress with my etek powered ebike
> >i now am at the expensive "buying controller stage"
> >i need some help choosing which curtis controller
> to buy
> >the system is 48v 350A max
> >which model do you all think is most suitable ?
> >regards
> >richard
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features -
> even more fun!
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events
> for advice on how to
> get there!
>
http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
>
>
___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger -
all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many thanks John, this is great info. I'll report before and after
weights to the list.
--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello David and All,
>
> David Dymaxion wrote:
>
> > Help like this is what makes the EVDL so awesome.
> >
> > I'm impressed you could machine away 1/2 the weight.
>
> Yeah, it's a nice reduction in unwanted rotational mass.
>
> > John did you thin your flywheels beyond spec? Is the limit having
> enough
> > threads for bolt purchase? Or is it strength? Or is it enough
> mass to
> > keep the ICE turning smoothly?
>
> Having worked with metal experts over the years, here' my take on
> these questions:
>
> (1) Is the limit having enough threads for bolt purchase?
>
> When sizing metal thickness and bolts to be threaded into that
> metal, the rule of thumb is
> the metal cannot be thinner than the diameter of the bolt if you
> want to be able to fully
> tighten and torque-down that bolt. If you have a 1/4 - 20 bolt, you
> want the metal to be
> at least 1/4 inch thick. In the case of Meanie's flywheel and the
> pressure plate perimeter
> bolts, we are way beyond spec there, as the the bolts are 6mm but
> the metal is still ~ 3/4
> inch thick.
>
> (2) Or is it strength?
>
> That's very important. Yes, you don't want to thin it down so that
> you can warp the outer
> perimeter from tightening any bolts. You also need it to stay
> intact under high revs, so
> this all has to be considered. I used a machine shop that's been
> doing flywheel lightening
> and balancing for decades, a shop that caters to hot rodders and
> 1/4 mile drag dudes. I
> also had them balance the flywheel after it had been chopped down.
>
> (3) Or is it enough mass to keep the ICE turning smoothly?
>
> Ahhh...this is the primary reason why the flywheel is as thick as
> it is, and, is as large
> in diameter as is practical. It's common that a small four cylinder
> engine will have a
> heavier flywheel than a smoother running six cylinder, and many
> times, it's even heavier
> than a V8's flywheel! Some four banger flywheels tip the scales at
> over 30 lbs.! The heavy
> mass makes an otherwise rough running engine smooth out
> considerably. Higher compression
> engines often have heavier flywheels, too, to help the
> reciprocating action take place.
>
> In a nut shell, if one is looking to shave down their vehicle's
> flywheel, take it to a
> shop well versed in such things. Make sure to tell them in detail,
> that it's going in an
> electric car where vibration damping, momentum effect (for help in
> the reciprocation
> area), stored inertia (for help with launching from rest), and
> starter ring gear
> placement, are all not needed. Tell them that the 'only' reason for
> the flywheel, is to
> accommodate the clutch system. Any quality racer's machine shop
> will know what to do, and
> how to do it while keeping all safety aspects in tact. I've had the
> flywheel mods done to
> too many conversions to list, and have never had a problem with any
> of the flywheels, but,
> I've always used racer's type machine shops, shops well versed in
> high rpm safety and
> reliability.
>
> Note; you'll have trouble getting them to accept that you have an
> 'engine' that doesn't
> need help from a flywheel's stored inertia to launch the vehicle,
> and they'll argue that
> your EV will have sluggish take-off power without it....that's when
> you educate them about
> your electric motor's effortless ability to make 250-300 ft. lbs.
> at zero rpm!
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon, that's odd - are you sure that the throttle ramp wasn't turned
right up or something?
Richard: There are plenty of different Curtis controllers available,
pick one that's suitable for you. Also, check out 4qd.co.uk. Their
bigger controllers have an "speed control" characteristic when used
with a PM motor though, which might not be fun on a bike.
Evan.
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:31:37 +0100 (BST), richard ball
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> thanks for that
> i can't get alltrax in the uk and you get a huge
> shipping and import duty bill when you order from the
> us
> i found this out when i bought the etek motor online
> i wonder why the curtis is so bad ?
> if there isn't a better curtis available than yours
> then i will have no choice than to buy from the US and
> pay up then wait 3wks for delivery
> regards
> richard
>
>
>
>
> --- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I would get an Alltrax. I have the AXE-4844 on my
> > motorcycle which replaced
> > aCurtis 1204. In my opinion, Alltrax's are much
> > better then the Curtii in
> > both performance and configurability. Not sure if
> > you can get one in the UK
> > easily, but it would definitely be worth the
> > trouble. My alltrax has no
> > problem pushing me (250lbs) plus the steel framed
> > motorcycle with 200lbs of
> > batteries up to 60+ mph with no transmission. I
> > never have any problems
> > keeping up with traffic. The Curtis was awful with
> > the same setup. It was
> > only a 275amp model, but it would take forever to
> > ramp up to that 275 amps.
> > The Alltrax gives me full power right away.
> >
> > damon
> >
> > >From: richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: expert advice needed
> > >Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:56:30 +0100 (BST)
> > >
> > >hi guys
> > >i'm making progress with my etek powered ebike
> > >i now am at the expensive "buying controller stage"
> > >i need some help choosing which curtis controller
> > to buy
> > >the system is 48v 350A max
> > >which model do you all think is most suitable ?
> > >regards
> > >richard
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
> > > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features -
> > even more fun!
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events
> > for advice on how to
> > get there!
> >
> http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
> >
> >
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger
> - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:04:11 +0000, "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>If it were me, and I just had 4 lead acid batteries to charge, I'd get 4 of
>the Soneil chargers. The cost is around the same as the regs, and each
>battery will get exactly the charge it needs everytime.
I think Soneils are highly over-rated and over-priced. I fell for the
hype a couple of years ago and bought a 24 volt version for my Currie. It
under-performs an EV Warrior charger by a significant margin.
If a 1 amp charge rate will suffice, one can get a wall-wart-based 1 amp,
12 volt smart charger from batteriesamerica.com, AKA "Mr NiCad" for
$19.95. Quantity discounts apply. This charger comes with alligator clip
leads but the wart itself has screw terminals so any desired connection
can be made.
I have a couple dozen of these chargers are am very pleased with the
performance. I keep all my spare/unused batteries connected to maintain a
full charge. I have 4 of them plugged to an outlet strip and connected to
a Cannon plug to charge the 4 batteries on my homemade 48 volt scooter.
The 1 amp rate is adequate for overnight charging since I rarely remove
more than half the charge from the 17 ah batteries.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
leeahart wrote:
>For example, the Curtis heatsink is 12" x 9" x 2" = 209 cu.in.
So we get to count the void space between the fins of the heatsink as
part of the volume needed?
Thanks,
Patrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard you can contact Alltrax directly they are very helpful:
I bought mine this summer on Ebay, it was a never used 72V450Amp 2002 model.
asked alltrax about using it with 60V Lynch motor, they said: "never this
one ! but we solved the back emf problem on new design"
After agreement, i send it back to them 1,5 month ago and received this week
a brand new (07/30/2004) one.
they charged me $22,55 dollars for shipment (effective shipment cost is $32)
so
thumb up for so helpful international support.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "richard ball" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: expert advice needed
> thanks for that
> i can't get alltrax in the uk and you get a huge
> shipping and import duty bill when you order from the
> us
> i found this out when i bought the etek motor online
> i wonder why the curtis is so bad ?
> if there isn't a better curtis available than yours
> then i will have no choice than to buy from the US and
> pay up then wait 3wks for delivery
> regards
> richard
>
>
> --- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I would get an Alltrax. I have the AXE-4844 on my
> > motorcycle which replaced
> > aCurtis 1204. In my opinion, Alltrax's are much
> > better then the Curtii in
> > both performance and configurability. Not sure if
> > you can get one in the UK
> > easily, but it would definitely be worth the
> > trouble. My alltrax has no
> > problem pushing me (250lbs) plus the steel framed
> > motorcycle with 200lbs of
> > batteries up to 60+ mph with no transmission. I
> > never have any problems
> > keeping up with traffic. The Curtis was awful with
> > the same setup. It was
> > only a 275amp model, but it would take forever to
> > ramp up to that 275 amps.
> > The Alltrax gives me full power right away.
> >
> > damon
> >
> > >From: richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: expert advice needed
> > >Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:56:30 +0100 (BST)
> > >
> > >hi guys
> > >i'm making progress with my etek powered ebike
> > >i now am at the expensive "buying controller stage"
> > >i need some help choosing which curtis controller
> > to buy
> > >the system is 48v 350A max
> > >which model do you all think is most suitable ?
> > >regards
> > >richard
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
> > > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features -
> > even more fun!
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events
> > for advice on how to
> > get there!
> >
> http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo!
Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know that some models of the curtis have a throttle ramp up pot. If mine
does it is not accessable from the outside. The curtis also runs much
hotter then my Alltrax, so I had it go into thermal limiting on multiple
occasions. The curtis is not a bad controller, it just wasn't quite up to
the task I was trying to use it for. In fact I have considered saleing it,
but for the ~$150 I might be able to get for it, I would rather keep it
laying around in case I want to throw together a quick go cart or something
for the kids. (John Wayland, if your listening, I've still got my eye on
that minbike frame in your garage!)
From what I've seen as far as brand new pricing I would say you get a lot
more for your money with an Alltrax. I also haven't spotted any used
Alltrax's for sale. Don't know if this is because they haven't been as
widely used as Curtis's or if all their customers are as satisfied as me :-)
My guess is a bit of both. I know on this list I often see Curtis
mistyped Cursit.
damon
From: Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: expert advice needed
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:51:39 +0100
damon, that's odd - are you sure that the throttle ramp wasn't turned
right up or something?
Richard: There are plenty of different Curtis controllers available,
pick one that's suitable for you. Also, check out 4qd.co.uk. Their
bigger controllers have an "speed control" characteristic when used
with a PM motor though, which might not be fun on a bike.
Evan.
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:31:37 +0100 (BST), richard ball
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> thanks for that
> i can't get alltrax in the uk and you get a huge
> shipping and import duty bill when you order from the
> us
> i found this out when i bought the etek motor online
> i wonder why the curtis is so bad ?
> if there isn't a better curtis available than yours
> then i will have no choice than to buy from the US and
> pay up then wait 3wks for delivery
> regards
> richard
>
>
>
>
> --- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I would get an Alltrax. I have the AXE-4844 on my
> > motorcycle which replaced
> > aCurtis 1204. In my opinion, Alltrax's are much
> > better then the Curtii in
> > both performance and configurability. Not sure if
> > you can get one in the UK
> > easily, but it would definitely be worth the
> > trouble. My alltrax has no
> > problem pushing me (250lbs) plus the steel framed
> > motorcycle with 200lbs of
> > batteries up to 60+ mph with no transmission. I
> > never have any problems
> > keeping up with traffic. The Curtis was awful with
> > the same setup. It was
> > only a 275amp model, but it would take forever to
> > ramp up to that 275 amps.
> > The Alltrax gives me full power right away.
> >
> > damon
> >
> > >From: richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: expert advice needed
> > >Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:56:30 +0100 (BST)
> > >
> > >hi guys
> > >i'm making progress with my etek powered ebike
> > >i now am at the expensive "buying controller stage"
> > >i need some help choosing which curtis controller
> > to buy
> > >the system is 48v 350A max
> > >which model do you all think is most suitable ?
> > >regards
> > >richard
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
> > > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features -
> > even more fun!
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events
> > for advice on how to
> > get there!
> >
> http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
> >
> >
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW
Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't be scared to use smaller wire and longer distances with a Rudman reg.
I put huge wires and short lengths and had connections break because the
wire acted as a lever. Size wire by amp draw. I don't think the regs drain
more than two amps. I could be wrong but I think Rich has a chart somewhere
on his site for wire length and size.. Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "cristin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Scooter battery balancer
>
> I just bought 4 Rudman regs to prevent premature battery death on my
> evt-168.
>
> Now I'm just trying to find a place to mount them where they can:
> stay dry
> get some air (doing the cooling fan load trick)
> not have too much wire between them and the batteries
> be seen (or at least route some fiber optic from the LEDs to some
> place I can see them)
>
>
>
> -C
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2004, at 9:49 PM, Joe Smalley wrote:
>
> > My son's Jeep uses two SVR-14 batteries. I normally charge them in
> > parallel
> > and discharge them in series with no problems. I have been
> > experimenting
> > with two Rudman Mk2-b Regulators feeding back into a PFC-20 to turn it
> > down
> > at the end of charge. It reduces the charge time by a third. Series
> > charging
> > is faster because 20 amps of bulk current is a higher wattage at 24
> > Volts
> > than it is at 12 Volts.
> >
> > You can get by with only two regulators if you put a wire between the
> > midpoints of the two strings. This is called hooking up the batteries
> > as
> > buddy pairs. Each regulator protects a 12 volt segment of both strings.
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 3:50 PM
> > Subject: Scooter battery balancer
> >
> >
> >> I just installed 4 10.5ah 12v batteries in my scooter in series
> >> parallel
> > for 24v. I've only got 2 cycles on them but 2 of them get to 14.5v
> > while the
> > other 2 are still near 13.8v. I've aborted both cycles manually and
> > charged
> > each battery seperatly to 14.5v and 200ma. Do people just ignore this
> > on
> > scooters? I can't find any info on somone installing regulators on
> > their
> > scooters. Is this an application for a zener and lightbulb (x4)?
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Steve
> >>
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Patrick - If KTA no longer has the heat sink, I have one new one
and one used one (used one is black anodized with some extra holes,
not pretty but very functional). The used one I could sell for $15,
the new one $50. Shipping from Portland, OR 97232 extra...
Make sure the air has someplace to go after passing the heat sink.
Fins at the back of a closed cavity, open only on one side, won't be
able to do their job. Also, try to keep the intense heat that's close
to the asphalt (when parked or stopped) off of the controller.
-GT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since most of the regulators people discuss on this list are only used
during charging, I am surprised that more people don't use these off the
shelf low priced charges as a means to finish charge each battery
seperately. Simply use your bulk charger to charge the entire pack in
series up to a certain voltage level where you are confident no batteries
are cooking, but all the batteries should be nearing finish, then switch of
the big amps and finsih up with modular charging.
I think Soneils are highly over-rated and over-priced. I fell for the
hype a couple of years ago and bought a 24 volt version for my Currie. It
under-performs an EV Warrior charger by a significant margin.
If a 1 amp charge rate will suffice, one can get a wall-wart-based 1 amp,
12 volt smart charger from batteriesamerica.com, AKA "Mr NiCad" for
$19.95. Quantity discounts apply. This charger comes with alligator clip
leads but the wart itself has screw terminals so any desired connection
can be made.
I have a couple dozen of these chargers are am very pleased with the
performance. I keep all my spare/unused batteries connected to maintain a
full charge. I have 4 of them plugged to an outlet strip and connected to
a Cannon plug to charge the 4 batteries on my homemade 48 volt scooter.
The 1 amp rate is adequate for overnight charging since I rarely remove
more than half the charge from the 17 ah batteries.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great. I'd like to buy the used one. That's for the 1231C, right? How
do I pay you? Do you have a PayPal account?
Thanks,
Patrick
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/21/04 10:48:10 AM >>>
Hi Patrick - If KTA no longer has the heat sink, I have one new one
and one used one (used one is black anodized with some extra holes,
not pretty but very functional). The used one I could sell for $15,
the new one $50. Shipping from Portland, OR 97232 extra...
Make sure the air has someplace to go after passing the heat sink.
Fins at the back of a closed cavity, open only on one side, won't be
able to do their job. Also, try to keep the intense heat that's close
to the asphalt (when parked or stopped) off of the controller.
-GT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi evan
i tried 4QD and they were quite cheap but i haven't found anyone who has used one yet
i've had a flood of recomendations for the alltrax axe unit which has the added
benefit of rs232port and adjustable parameters by a pc
curtis has taken a bit of a battering from people on the list and when i spoke to
their engineers in the uk they had never heard of an etek motor
i guess i might just order the alltrax from the states and be get a unit that lots of
people have had success with before
regards
richard
Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
damon, that's odd - are you sure that the throttle ramp wasn't turned
right up or something?
Richard: There are plenty of different Curtis controllers available,
pick one that's suitable for you. Also, check out 4qd.co.uk. Their
bigger controllers have an "speed control" characteristic when used
with a PM motor though, which might not be fun on a bike.
Evan.
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:31:37 +0100 (BST), richard ball
wrote:
> thanks for that
> i can't get alltrax in the uk and you get a huge
> shipping and import duty bill when you order from the
> us
> i found this out when i bought the etek motor online
> i wonder why the curtis is so bad ?
> if there isn't a better curtis available than yours
> then i will have no choice than to buy from the US and
> pay up then wait 3wks for delivery
> regards
> richard
>
>
>
>
> --- damon henry wrote:
> > I would get an Alltrax. I have the AXE-4844 on my
> > motorcycle which replaced
> > aCurtis 1204. In my opinion, Alltrax's are much
> > better then the Curtii in
> > both performance and configurability. Not sure if
> > you can get one in the UK
> > easily, but it would definitely be worth the
> > trouble. My alltrax has no
> > problem pushing me (250lbs) plus the steel framed
> > motorcycle with 200lbs of
> > batteries up to 60+ mph with no transmission. I
> > never have any problems
> > keeping up with traffic. The Curtis was awful with
> > the same setup. It was
> > only a 275amp model, but it would take forever to
> > ramp up to that 275 amps.
> > The Alltrax gives me full power right away.
> >
> > damon
> >
> > >From: richard ball
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: expert advice needed
> > >Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:56:30 +0100 (BST)
> > >
> > >hi guys
> > >i'm making progress with my etek powered ebike
> > >i now am at the expensive "buying controller stage"
> > >i need some help choosing which curtis controller
> > to buy
> > >the system is 48v 350A max
> > >which model do you all think is most suitable ?
> > >regards
> > >richard
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
> > > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features -
> > even more fun!
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events
> > for advice on how to
> > get there!
> >
> http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
> >
> >
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger
> - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
---------------------------------
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve, Welcome to the world of AGM battery charging. The imbalance
charging problem that occurs with strings of AGM batteries has been
discussed many times on the list; but, thought I, all that concern is for
people with long 120v strings. Surely my two batteries in series would not
get out of balance. WRONG! They stay in balance for a while, but then
start drifting apart, a few mV further with each charge cycle. Eventually
one starts going over 15v and the other doesn't get over 14v. My solutions
is to check each battery somewhere in the middle of the charge cycle. If
the difference is more than 0.1v, I charge each battery individually. This
balances everything again, and I am good for another week of charging in
series. This works ok with only four batteries involved.
Question: The EVlist recommends monitoring AGM's individually while
charging to prevent the imbalance problem. What about those six 1.5v cells
in each of the AGM's? What keeps them from going out of balance and
destroying a battery prematurely? Thanks, Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 5:50 PM
Subject: Scooter battery balancer
> I just installed 4 10.5ah 12v batteries in my scooter in series parallel
for 24v. I've only got 2 cycles on them but 2 of them get to 14.5v while the
other 2 are still near 13.8v. I've aborted both cycles manually and charged
each battery seperatly to 14.5v and 200ma. Do people just ignore this on
scooters? I can't find any info on somone installing regulators on their
scooters. Is this an application for a zener and lightbulb (x4)?
>
> thanks,
> Steve
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I had to contact K&W about my blown BC-20 charger back in
2000, I sent email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] On a very
quick search just now, I could not find their webpage. There was
one quick mention of a URL in the solstice archives (but that did
not work).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 12:17 PM
Subject: K&W Website
> Does anyone have the web address for K&W? I cannot find a
working URL in
> the ev list or on google.
>
> thanks
> Don
>
>
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
--- End Message ---
