EV Digest 3904
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Spain says solar power is mandatory
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Zivan K2 bites the dust
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Ford Ranger Adapter Plate Dimensions?
by Dragan Stancevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Power wheels breakdown
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Spain says solar power is mandatory
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hello
by "Rmanzan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re:
by "Rmanzan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Noob rolls.........(@ last !) from Ed. Gordon in Plymouth, Devon, UK
by "jeanedd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Equaliztion Sites
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) variac turn-on?
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Noob rolls.........(@ last !) from Ed. Gordon in Plymouth, Devon, UK
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Treadmill motor for lawn tractor?
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) SS Brakes Corporation vaccum pump
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: variac turn-on?
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: variac turn-on?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: ruminitions on energy
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: variac turn-on?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Noob rolls.........(@ last !) from Ed. Gordon in Plymouth, Devon, UK
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Digi shots of Goldie
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Zivan K2 bites the dust
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: ruminitions on energy
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay
by David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: ruminitions on energy
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Digi shots of Goldie
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: variac turn-on?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: variac turn-on?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Digi shots of Goldie
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: variac turn-on?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Digi shots of Goldie
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Roger Herick, Arcata Electricar?
by Nick Aronoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Roger Herick, Arcata Electricar?
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) Re: variac turn-on?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
35) Re: variac turn-on?
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
36) Re: ruminitions on energy
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
37) Re: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---It sounds like they are talking about thermal collectors rather than PV: http://avantgo.thetimes.co.uk/services/avantgo/article/0,,1350946,00.html whereas in Germany they have some strong subsidies on PV: http://www.barcelona2004.org/eng/eventos/dialogos/docs/ponencias/156p_hgirardeteng.pdf ===== . _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD [EMAIL PROTECTED] (_ | |_) http://ecloud.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] __) | | \______________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---Rich Rudman wrote: > Try replacing the Dead and fried MOVs on the input circuits. > They over heat, and they handle precharge issues as well as > main current limits. Rich, don't you mean the surge limiters, not MOVs? -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---On Tuesday 09 November 2004 08:24, Mark Farver wrote: > I need to check my files, but I have the measurements for a 99 Ranger 4 > cylinder somewhere. That would be great if you can find them. Thanks. -- Peace can only come as a natural consequence of universal enlightenment. -Dr. Nikola Tesla
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--- Begin Message ---As I found out, when you upgrade the wiring, the switch fails from the increased inrush current. I have been using a marine starter switch in our Jeep and it lasts about a year before melting. I tried the contactor idea but found the noise annoying. If you put the contactor coil and switch in the circuit ahead of the forward/reverse switch, you can use a conventional diode (1n4001) across the coil. Make sure the diode is oriented in the blocking direction with the switch closed. That would mean the cathode (bar end) is connected to the positive terminal of the battery. Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:45 PM Subject: Re: Power wheels breakdown > Chris Zach wrote: > > Question: Should I put an MOV across the switch anyway to act as > > a spark snubber? Will an MOV do that (act as a spark supressor) > > when placed across any switch? > > Generally, yes. An MOV works like a cheap, soft high-power zener diode. > Since you are using it at 12v, you'll have to find an unusually low > voltage MOV. They are hard to find below about 33v. > > But, the real problem in the Powerwheels is not the spark when the > switch opens; it is the peak motor starting current. Those PM motors > look almost like a short circuit when starting. The main thing limiting > the peak current is the wimpy gauge wiring. > -- > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever > has!" -- Margaret Mead > -- > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net >
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Zappy List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: Spain says solar power is mandatory
Just hunted down the story....
Jose Montilla, the Industry Minister in Spain made the announcement that beginning next year (less than two months from now), ALL new construction and even ALL renovations MUST include and install solar panels in the design.
Did the story say whether the required solar panels would be
photovoltaic panels? If the story didn't say otherwise I'll assume the
panels would be collectors for heating hot water. Do tell us the source
of this story. I'd like to read it.
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--- Begin Message --- :)
<<attachment: price.scr>>
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--- Begin Message --- :)
price.cpl
Description: Binary data
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--- Begin Message ---Just a little step, but happy days(-ze?) Sunday evening, (7th Nov. 04), on a private road, the Two Wheel Electric Vehicle carried 2 people for just under a mile (much of it c.10% gradient) Not a huge result as yet, I know, but big grins all round. You guys are right, it's loadsa fun Now the real work begins Develop, Improve, Learn, Evolve, (find the limits of some things, even....) Next step is a trailer............... To retrieve it when I discover the real range........... & so on Keep on electrifying (Burble, Burble, etc.,) PS Need to add a 2nd. (Small, / "Polite"?) horn, - because............... Scared the ### out of a neighbour, - because........ I didn't want to use the present LOUD item, hoping to avoid scaring her, - so.......... cruised up gently past, - .......and............ When she finally saw (in the gathering dusk) a silent, low, yellow & white object, with two grinning idiots on board............. She sure took instant notice........... Heh, Heh, Ed.
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--- Begin Message ---Does anyone have a good web site on equalization / BMS for lead acid? other battery types? TIA Peter
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--- Begin Message ---Hi EV list,
I have been using a 20A variac for charging a few batteries and I'm having a heck of a time plugging it in without tripping the breaker (to be expected). Once it's going it's fine of course. Usually if I try enough times I can get lucky enough to catch the AC at the right part of the waveform and it doesn't pull enough to trip the breaker. Any ideas for a "soft" turn-on? I was thinking about trying to use some capacitors or something, but I'm fresh out of good ideas this morning. Cheers,
Seth
-- '72 Datsun 240Z Electric Conversion http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
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--- Begin Message ---Not a huge result as yet, I know, but big grins all round. You guys are right, it's loadsa fun Now the real work begins Develop, Improve, Learn, Evolve, (find the limits of some things, even....) and some pictures for the ev album :-) , steve clunn
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--- Begin Message -------- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:18 AM Subject: RE: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay > Hi, > > I did use an MR2 power steering pump in my Jeep. As Chris said, I've > found that it works well. Are you running it with out those control boxes , straight to the 12v , ? Thanks Steve Clunn
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--- Begin Message ---> >ENCL: OFC > Enclosure: open frame construction (no protection against water, insects etc.) > Some common motor enclosure designations: OFC Open Fan Cooled ODP Open Dripproof OAO Open Air Over ODPAO Open Dripproof, Air Over TEAO Totally Enclosed, Air Over TEFC Totally Enclosed, Fan Cooled TENV Totally Enclosed, Non-Ventilated Air Over means the motor is used to power a fan or blower, and must be mounted in the air stream for proper cooling. Mark T.
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--- Begin Message ---Does anyone have any experience with the SS Brakes Corporation vacuum pump?
http://www.martelbrothers.com/customer/product.php?productid=SSB28146&cat=&page=1
It looks promising - designed for automotive use, includes isolators, and is set up to switch on at 15 inches and off at 20 inches of vacuum, so it shouldn't cycle on and off too much.
Occasionally one is for sale on Ebay. My goal with this project is to buy as few new parts as possible : in the spirit of recycling, and also to save money. But, I'd like to hear if anyone knows anything else about these before I bid on one the next time one comes up for sale.
Phil Marino
_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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--- Begin Message ---Nick wrote; > > A DC/DC (30A output) and an Everstart U1 battery powers my 12 volt system, > and the voltage does sag into the 10 volt range if I have the wheel turned > a > lot or have many accessories on. I'm still trying to decide how I want to > get more power into the 12-volt system so it'll stop "browning out." > > -Nick > 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV > http://Go.DriveEV.com/ > Ditch the Everstart. Put in a Hawker GP13EP, or an SVR14, or an Odyssey PC545, or an Exide 34XCD(which is bigger than all the preceding). Just for a little test, I took the Everstart U1 out of my snowmobile and tried it with the Hawker GP13EP. The difference was amazing the engine spun over with a zip instead of turned over slowly until it fired. There was much less voltage sag with the little Hawker. And this was done with a NEW U1 vs. an OLD Hawker. The Odyssey is on Ebay right now for $55 ("Buy It Now"). Plus $14 bux shipping. You may get it cheaper local, check with your local Motorcycle/Jet Ski dealer (these are starting batteries for those applications) -- Stay Charged! Hump "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford
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--- Begin Message ---___ / \ Light Bulb S1 | xxx | ---- \| |/ ____* *_____| |_________ | | \ | | \____ * * ____ To variac ----- S2 / _________________________/ Turn on S1 then S2. Thanks, Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Seth Murray Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 6:32 AM To: EV List Subject: variac turn-on? > Hi EV list, > > I have been using a 20A variac for charging a few batteries and I'm > having a heck of a time plugging it in without tripping the breaker (to > be expected). Once it's going it's fine of course. Usually if I try > enough times I can get lucky enough to catch the AC at the right part > of the waveform and it doesn't pull enough to trip the breaker. Any > ideas for a "soft" turn-on? I was thinking about trying to use some > capacitors or something, but I'm fresh out of good ideas this morning. > Cheers, > > Seth > > -- > '72 Datsun 240Z Electric Conversion > http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
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--- Begin Message ---Hi Seth; Howbout a looooong ' stench cord,as I need it to reach beyond two thousand SUV's to get to "my" plug, like a few hundred feet, thats overkill for you, though<g>! like I use at the RR to charge the Rabbit withm I can crank the Variac ALL the way out of the [EMAIL PROTECTED] amps. When I come back it has tapered down to about 4-5 amps. Don't know why that went blue, 'twasn't me. Yeah! I know the cord is just a dropping resistor, but it works for me. When I get home I plug in the PFC-20, which is a hellova lot faster to charge the car. Go to Job Lot or Wall Mart , get a nice soft cordIE 16 ga or so. My two Watts worth Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seth Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:32 AM Subject: variac turn-on? > Hi EV list, > > I have been using a 20A variac for charging a few batteries and I'm > having a heck of a time plugging it in without tripping the breaker (to > be expected). Once it's going it's fine of course. Usually if I try > enough times I can get lucky enough to catch the AC at the right part > of the waveform and it doesn't pull enough to trip the breaker. Any > ideas for a "soft" turn-on? I was thinking about trying to use some > capacitors or something, but I'm fresh out of good ideas this morning. > Cheers, > > Seth > > -- > '72 Datsun 240Z Electric Conversion > http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/ >
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--- Begin Message ---This is a good concept and works in the electric power industry. A combined cycle electric power plant consists of a gas turbine powering a generator, exhausting into a steam generator, with the steam used in a steam turbine to power the same generator (single shaft design) or a separate additional generator. Commercially available units are over 58% efficient. For comparison, the simple cycle (gas turbine only) efficiency is 38%. See: http://www.siemenswestinghouse.com/en/combinedcycle/index.cfm. The same concept could be applied to the ICE in an automobile. One big problem is finding space for the steam condenser. The Howard Hughes steam car project solved(?) the problem by making the entire body of the car a network of radiators. See:http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Howard,%20The%20Amazin g%20Mr.%20Hughes.html. An even better concept is cogeneration. Here the gas turbine exhaust heat is not used to make mechanical energy or electricity, but for direct heating such as for hot water or building and residential space heating. Efficiency can be over 90%. For example, suppose you heat your home with natural gas. The hot gases from the combustion of the natural gas does the heating. Instead, first use the natural gas to power a combustion engine to turn a generator to recharge your EV. Then use the hot exhaust gas to heat your hot water and warm you house. Your home/transportation energy efficiency is over 90%, compared to the average electric utility at only 40%. See: http://www.gas.or.jp/english/pdf/ecowill.pdf All is takes is some extra capital $'s and a large enough heat load. Works well in the cold north, but not so good in the sunny south, where my yearly heating bill is less than $400/year. Mark T. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > If 75% of energy is thrown off of an ICE engine as heat then instead of > trying to recover the relativly smaller loss of regenerative braking, > shouldn't the hybrid manufactures look at regenerating the waste heat > from the exhaust? > > recovery technology efficiency hybrid drive > sterling 40%(max) 80-90% > .4*.85 = 32 - 36 of 3/4 waste heat(more time for heat > exchange) = ~ 27% increase in mileage > steam turbine (~75%) .75 > * .8 - .9 = 60 - 68 % of 1/2 waste heat = ~ 50-60% increase in > mileage > Thermo eletric ? 15% ? > = not worth it > > questions for us kiddies > How big would a steam microturbine built like a capstone be I wonder? > are these numbers even close. more energy is given off as heat than is > turned into shaft motion, why aren't we driving steam cars run on gas? >
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--- Begin Message ---Two easy methods. One is to use one of the inrush limiter thermisters used in switch-mode power supplies. Digikey has a wide selection. Another method is to insert a zero crossing solid state relay in the primary. John On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:32:03 -0500, Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hi EV list, > >I have been using a 20A variac for charging a few batteries and I'm >having a heck of a time plugging it in without tripping the breaker (to >be expected). Once it's going it's fine of course. Usually if I try >enough times I can get lucky enough to catch the AC at the right part >of the waveform and it doesn't pull enough to trip the breaker. Any >ideas for a "soft" turn-on? I was thinking about trying to use some >capacitors or something, but I'm fresh out of good ideas this morning. >Cheers, > >Seth --- John De Armond [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/ Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---any pics ed ? --- jeanedd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just a little step, but happy days(-ze?) > Sunday evening, (7th Nov. 04), on a private road, > the Two Wheel Electric Vehicle carried 2 people for > just under a mile (much of it c.10% gradient) > Not a huge result as yet, I know, but big grins all > round. > You guys are right, it's loadsa fun > Now the real work begins > Develop, Improve, Learn, Evolve, (find the limits of > some things, even....) > > Next step is a trailer............... > To retrieve it when I discover the real > range........... > & so on > > Keep on electrifying > (Burble, Burble, etc.,) > > PS > Need to add a 2nd. (Small, / "Polite"?) horn, - > because............... > Scared the ### out of a neighbour, - because........ > I didn't want to use the present LOUD item, hoping > to avoid scaring her, - so.......... > cruised up gently past, - .......and............ > When she finally saw (in the gathering dusk) a > silent, low, yellow & white object, with two > grinning idiots on board............. > She sure took instant notice........... > > Heh, Heh, > Ed. > ===== Regards Richard ___________________________________________________________ Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win 10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality. Get Yahoo! Mail http://uk.mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---Hey Ken We need to talk about getting me the high res shots of Goldie Shredding tires in Vancouver this Spring. And to the VEVA folks. I know sombody had a Vidoe camera rolling when Wayland and I were in Shred mode. I would really like to have that footage On DVD or at least a tape copy. I will cover all shipping and coping cost to get it into my hands. Ken the Stills are going to John Frost , for the SEVA Calender project. I know there are tons of shots that I have never seen. I would like to collect them, and get them on my site also. Thanks for help folks. > > -Ken Trough > Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite > http://visforvoltage.com > AIM - ktrough > FAX - 801-749-7807 > message - 866-872-8901 >
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--- Begin Message ---Well yea... I thought they were one and the same thing. They sure looked like it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: Re: Zivan K2 bites the dust > Rich Rudman wrote: > > Try replacing the Dead and fried MOVs on the input circuits. > > They over heat, and they handle precharge issues as well as > > main current limits. > > Rich, don't you mean the surge limiters, not MOVs? > -- > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever > has!" -- Margaret Mead > -- > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net >
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--- Begin Message ---This thread, while very interesting (at least to me), started rather off-topic, IIRC. Since then it's wandered still farther afield. If you want to continue it, please do so off line. Thanks, folks. David EV List Topic Cop
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The Odyssey is on Ebay right now for $55 ("Buy It Now"). Plus $14 bux shipping. You may get it cheaper local, check with your local Motorcycle/Jet Ski dealer (these are starting batteries for those applications)
--
Stay Charged! Hump "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford
I still have some SVR-14s and SVR-30s for sale, your choice $25.00 ea + shipping. David Chapman.
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--- Begin Message ---Better yet, take it to the Alternative Energy list, on this same server. [EMAIL PROTECTED] subscribe ae yourname > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of David Roden (Akron OH USA) > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 1:27 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: ruminitions on energy > > > This thread, while very interesting (at least to me), started rather > off-topic, > IIRC. Since then it's wandered still farther afield. If you want to > continue it, > please do so off line. > > Thanks, folks. > > David > EV List Topic Cop >
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--- Begin Message ---I've got some stills and video. The video is typical still-camera quality (320x240, quarter-VGA, 15fps, mono audio) but it at least captures the event. Suitable for posting on a website, at least. I'll dig up what I have and put it up somewhere, and post a link for those who want to grab it. hmm ... Somewhere I think I still have a small shred of tire too ... --chris Rich Rudman said: > Hey Ken > We need to talk about getting me the high res shots of Goldie Shredding > tires in Vancouver this Spring. > > And to the VEVA folks. > I know sombody had a Vidoe camera rolling when Wayland and I were in > Shred mode. > I would really like to have that footage On DVD or at least a tape copy. > I will cover all shipping and coping cost to get it into my hands. > > Ken the Stills are going to John Frost , for the SEVA Calender project. > > I know there are tons of shots that I have never seen. I would like to > collect them, and get them on my site also. > > Thanks for help folks. > > >> >> -Ken Trough >> Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite >> http://visforvoltage.com >> AIM - ktrough >> FAX - 801-749-7807 >> message - 866-872-8901 >> > >
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--- Begin Message ---Seth Murray wrote: > > Hi EV list, > > I have been using a 20A variac for charging a few batteries and I'm > having a heck of a time plugging it in without tripping the breaker (to > be expected). Once it's going it's fine of course. Usually if I try > enough times I can get lucky enough to catch the AC at the right part > of the waveform and it doesn't pull enough to trip the breaker. Any > ideas for a "soft" turn-on? I was thinking about trying to use some > capacitors or something, but I'm fresh out of good ideas this morning. Microwave ovens have the same problem. The standard solution is to program the microcomputer (which is always there nowdays) to only close the relay or triac at the time in the AC cycle that results in minimum inrush current. Paradoxically, it is at the *peak* of the AC line voltage, as I recall. So, I'll bet you can rig up a circuit that times the turn-on of a triac or relay based on the instantaneous AC line voltage. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Neon John wrote: > Another method is to insert a zero crossing solid state relay in the > primary. Zero crossing is actually the *worst* time to turn on a transformer, as it allows an entire AC half-cycle for the current surge. If you literally turn on the transformer at a zero-crossing of the AC line voltage, the surge current will be its worst. However, depending on the solid-state relay and the load on the transformer, it may work anyway. First, because most solid-state relays have only 2 AC terminals, and sense zero-crossing at them. If the load is highly inductive (like a transformer with no load on its secondaries), then the off-state voltage across the relay "contacts" is actually phase-shifted almost 90 deg, and crosses zero at the PEAK of the real AC line voltage. So, the solid-state relay will turn on near the PEAK of the actual AC line voltage. This is exactly what you want. But, this won't work if the transformer has some kind of load that looks like a short circuit when off. For example, a secondary with a rectifier and big filter capacitor. In this case, the transformer is in effect shorted, its inductance is minimal, and the solid-state relay will see a voltage that is essentially in-phase with the actual AC line voltage. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---I've got some stills and video. The video is typical still-camera quality (320x240, quarter-VGA, 15fps, mono audio) but it at least captures the event.
I've got copious shots the tire shredding session in relatively high resolution (at least compared to video), but I have been too lazy and haven't burned Rich a disc yet. I'll add it to my short term to do list. Sorry for the delay Rich!
-Ken Trough Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite http://visforvoltage.com AIM - ktrough FAX - 801-749-7807 message - 866-872-8901
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--- Begin Message ---I have a 7.5KVa Variac across my PFC charger power bench. Rule one is never turn it on while dialed up to full volts. I always crank it down to zero or 120 volts. I have it setup so I can dial it from 0 to 140 VAC, then I can move a jumper so it runs from 120 to 240. It's made as a 0 to 140 out. But I can use it in both settings across one or both AC lines. Forgetting and powering it up while dialed to 240 results in a couple of missing Cycles.....and a serious hum/thump from the 15Kva iso former. The routine is dial it down flip on the breaker, dial it up. dial down after use flip off breaker. Not doing this ate a bout $300 worth of 50 amp 240 VAC GFI breakers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:57 AM Subject: Re: variac turn-on? > Two easy methods. One is to use one of the inrush limiter thermisters > used in switch-mode power supplies. Digikey has a wide selection. > Another method is to insert a zero crossing solid state relay in the > primary. > > John > > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:32:03 -0500, Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Hi EV list, > > > >I have been using a 20A variac for charging a few batteries and I'm > >having a heck of a time plugging it in without tripping the breaker (to > >be expected). Once it's going it's fine of course. Usually if I try > >enough times I can get lucky enough to catch the AC at the right part > >of the waveform and it doesn't pull enough to trip the breaker. Any > >ideas for a "soft" turn-on? I was thinking about trying to use some > >capacitors or something, but I'm fresh out of good ideas this morning. > >Cheers, > > > >Seth > > --- > John De Armond > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/ > Cleveland, Occupied TN >
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--- Begin Message ---Oh great!! Thanks! Of all the stunts I have pulled off, this is one of the best. I gets harder and harder to Best your self. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > >
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--- Begin Message --- Has anyone on the list heard of Roger Herick and/or Arcata Electricar? A google search for electric vehicles in my area came up with his non-existant web site, and a lot of links to it, but I couldn't find any current info.
-Nick Aronoff
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--- Begin Message --- I haven't had any contact with Roger in probably a decade, but I can vouch for his character. When he was one of the owners of Alternative Energy Engineering (in Redway, CA) he and AEE sponsored my Kinetic Sculpture Racing team for several years. I'd heard that he was getting involved in EVs in Arcata some years ago, but I haven't heard anything recent.
hth,
Andrew
Nick Aronoff wrote:
Has anyone on the list heard of Roger Herick and/or Arcata Electricar? A google search for electric vehicles in my area came up with his non-existant web site, and a lot of links to it, but I couldn't find any current info.
-Nick Aronoff
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--- Begin Message ---On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:32:14 -0800, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Neon John wrote: >> Another method is to insert a zero crossing solid state relay in the >> primary. > >Zero crossing is actually the *worst* time to turn on a transformer, as >it allows an entire AC half-cycle for the current surge. If you >literally turn on the transformer at a zero-crossing of the AC line >voltage, the surge current will be its worst. This is completely wrong. There is no surge current because there is no voltage at zero crossing. Only after a half-cycle has flowed will there be current, flowing 90 deg out of phase with the voltage. The phenomena that causes high surge current into high quality inductors such as variacs and utility transformers, for example, has nothing to do with phase shift. The surge happens when the initial phase of the applied voltage is such that it adds to the residual magnetism left in the core when the power was previously interrupted at a current peak. This flux sums with that generated by the winding. The core saturates, allowing current limited only by the ohmic resistance and outside impedances to flow. It takes several cycles to degauss the core completely so the surge current decreases over several cycles. This gradual decrease is what causes the thump and then the tapered hum when a variac is energized under the wrong conditions. Energizing at zero crossing reduces the surge to almost nothing. I'm working on a new controller design that will energize the primary with low voltage AC and measure the polarity of the magnetization. It will fire the thyristor on the proper polarity to cancel the magnetism on the first half cycle. This works at the breadboard level now. This phenomena can be easily observed on a dual channel scope, one channel on voltage and the other measuring current across a shunt. This phenomena is also well documented in the utility press, as it is a major problem for utilities. As the core designs have gotten better with lower losses, the residual magnetism surge problem has track right alongside. The surge is sufficient to trip upstream breakers. The problem has been addressed by zero crossing breakers (vacuum breakers are fast enough to do that) and by complex protective relaying algorithms that can recognize the surge and ride it through. Closer to home, I make and sell a high current phase angle controller for neon bombarders. This is a device that produces controlled high voltage (25kv max), high current (3 amp max) power to heat neon tubes during processing. The usual high voltage transformer is a 20-50kva pole pig utility transformer. These very high quality transformers (percent impedance in the 1-2% range) exhibit this problem to a severe degree. I can trip the 200 amp main breaker by connecting the 240 volt terminals of a 20kva pig to the line at most any phase angle other than zero. How I deal with this problem I consider somewhat proprietary but in general, I bring up the voltage very slowly and include a small amount of resistance in series with the transformer to lower its Q. Back to the original question, I recommended a zero crossing solid state relay because I KNOW that it works, I know WHY it works and I've scoped out the circuit to verify the theory. I have a 50 amp variac in my shop that I use to control a furnace with. It would trip its 60 amp breaker almost every time. I now have a 60 amp solid state relay in series with the variac. It has a simple 6.3 volt transformer/diode bridge/cap unregulated power supply that supplies power to the relay anytime the line is energized. A mercury displacement relay upstream of the SSR controls the variac's supply because SSRs have too much leakage current for safety. John --- John De Armond [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/ Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message --- thanks lee that makes sense. I'll wire something up. and of course I always have it dialed down when I plug in and no caps.
seth
On Nov 10, 2004, at 2:25 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Seth Murray wrote:
Hi EV list,
I have been using a 20A variac for charging a few batteries and I'm
having a heck of a time plugging it in without tripping the breaker (to
be expected). Once it's going it's fine of course. Usually if I try
enough times I can get lucky enough to catch the AC at the right part
of the waveform and it doesn't pull enough to trip the breaker. Any
ideas for a "soft" turn-on? I was thinking about trying to use some
capacitors or something, but I'm fresh out of good ideas this morning.
Microwave ovens have the same problem. The standard solution is to program the microcomputer (which is always there nowdays) to only close the relay or triac at the time in the AC cycle that results in minimum inrush current. Paradoxically, it is at the *peak* of the AC line voltage, as I recall.
So, I'll bet you can rig up a circuit that times the turn-on of a triac or relay based on the instantaneous AC line voltage. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
-- '72 Datsun 240Z Electric Conversion http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
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--- Begin Message ---I believe you are mistaken. According to my 1907 book on "Self Propelled Vehicles", there were at least 2 (maybe 3, book isn't handy) cars that would warm up operating temperature in under 30 seconds, which was faster than the ICEs could warm up. They had gasoline burning "Flash" boilers that would inject just enough water into the boiler to maintain pressure, whilst tweeking the gasoline rate to maintain temperature. The multiple interlocking feedback control mechanisms are a wonder to behold, they really could have made good use of a microprocesessor! The big problem is that you needed 2 tanks, one for gasoline and another for water. That and the maximum efficiency (of a single piston stage engine) was lower, so lower mpg. A multi-stage engine is more efficient, but is much bigger, so they used them primarily in boats. Also, I've heard that the decline of horse use, caused a decrease in watering troughs, which the steamers used to refill thier water tanks. Don't know how much effect that had. This same book has fascinating diagrams for contactor controllers for EVs. One was a single unit that switched from 2 to 48 volts in 2X increments via a long wooden lever handle. On the bottom end of the handle was a bunch of spring loaded contacts that slid along multiple arcs of stationary contacts. I bet it sparked impressively! I'll see if I can find a scanner and put some of these pages on the web. "Mad" Mike Shipway (using a curtis PWM controller on my projects) > -----Original Message----- > From: Reinhard, Rick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2004 04:31 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: ruminitions on energy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Jeff Shanab > > why aren't we driving steam cars run on gas? > > For the same reason they stopped making them. > Nobody wanted to wait 20 minutes before you could to drive the car. > >
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--- Begin Message ---Hi, I'm running it straight to 12 volts. It runs anytime the ignition switch is in RUN. This is certainly not the best solution, but was a way to get everything set-up quicker and get the Jeep on the road! I am still looking for a way to make a smarter control circuit for the pump. I actually have the schematic for the Power steering electrical system for a 1995 MR2. It appears that a P/S computer, P/S "driver" module, and the main Powertrain Control Module from the MR2 are all involved with controlling the pump. -Nick 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV http://Go.DriveEV.com/ ----------------------------------------------- On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 07:31, Steve Clunn wrote: > Are you running it with out those control boxes , straight to the 12v , ? > > Thanks Steve Clunn
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