EV Digest 3910
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Switched Capacitor Circuit for Charge Equalization
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Car Title Help: WAS - RE: 1980 rabbit on the tradin' post, Free! see
below!
by D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electric Sailboat conversion
by Robert MacDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Zivan Charger Reprogramming
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: marketing hydrogen, really
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Switched Capacitor Circuit for Charge Equalization
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: marketing hydrogen, really
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
by Robert MacDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Low-resistance tires ... are they as safe?
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Gogo is a no-go...
by michael bearden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Lifeline batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Switched Capacitor Circuit for Charge Equalization
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) wanna be a tv star?
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: variac turn-on?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: wanna be a tv star?
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Precharge Resistor Questions
by JCT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Spain says Solar Panels mandatory
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: wanna be a tv star?
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Equaliztion Sites
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Equaliztion Sites
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Th!nk story on CBS
by "Mr23" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Equaliztion Sites
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) PB-6 Potbox Switches
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Equaliztion Sites
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Precharge Resistor Questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Switched Capacitor Circuit for Charge Equalization
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Switched Capacitor Circuit for Charge Equalization
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This type of circuit is well known and does bring the voltages
closer. It works if runs for a long time (24 or more hours) since
agressiveness of balancing naturally drops as the voltage
difference between individual cells or batteries is getting smaller.
This will work well for UPS stand by supplies but presents problem
for EV use: swithces must be powerful abd capacitors huge to move
appreciable amount of charge in reasonable time;
The main draw back (applies to the most of other approaches though)
is that you equalize voltages, not SOC which is really your goal.
Still, it is relatively simple and better than nothing.
As always and with everything, you get what you paid for.
Victor
Don Cameron wrote:
In researching the web, I stumbled across a paper called "Switched Capacitor
System for Automatic Series Battery Equalization", located on:
http://www.smartsparkenergy.com/pdf/batteq1.pdf
I looked through the archives but could not find any reference to anyone
using this type of a circuit for battery balancing. Has anyone tried this?
The company Smart Spark Energy builds a unit, but appears only for OEM use.
Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I live in Virginia, and titling can be a nightmare. I bought a car that was
left at a dealership for repair, and it was titled in Pennsylvania. The
dealership, and nobody else wanted to mess with trying to get an out of state
title. I have bought Virginia cars without titles, and have had them
researched and then cleared. But apparently an out of state car is almost
impossible to get titled in Virginia. But I bought it for the engine, and
after I robbed a few other parts off it, I called the junkyard, and they did
come and get it. They did ask me if I had a title, and I did tell them no, but
they came and picked it up for free anyway. I have heard it is worth their
while to come get a car for the scrap metal prices.
James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>I would be highly interested in
buying this car as my first road
>EV and have talked/emailed with Seth several times last week. Unfortunately
>Seth doesn't have a title and I can neither register nor scrap
>a vehicle without a title in Virginia (so what would I do with
>the empty shell if I did transplant the stuff?). Ideally I
>would like to play with the EV components in the current car
>and drive it over the winter for very brief trips before
>I tackle a transplant next spring.
What you'll probably have to do is fill out the Affidavit in Lieu of
Title, get it notarized, provide a Bill of Sale, and possibly fill out
some other forms. Ask the DMV for details. I wouldn't bother with all
that if the car is in bad shape, since you'd have to get it inspected to
drive it. If it isn't likely to pass inspection, I would just buy it for
parts and have a junkyard pick up the body when you're done with it (they
can get a salvage title for it).
David Thompson
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How much range Fortunat? It was 90 miles from Sacramento. The plates were
Michigan plates. It had the funny little Japanese mirrors up front on the
fenders. I'm assuming a 150 to 200 mile range. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
Lawrence,
was it greenish ?
I assume when you say dealer plates, you mean
M-plates, right ?
I think that is one of ours (not really ours, but we
did all the hard work :)). There are four of these X
trail vehicles that live at the California Fuel Cell
Partnership in Sacramento. I assume this is one of
them.
I am glad to hear it is getting some use.
~fortunat
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was driving across the Bay Bridge Wednesday night
and fell in line behind
a Nissan FCV. The name was X-Trail. It was big.
Michigan dealer plates.
Typical Japanese setup as far as the mirrors. A
real concept car. God
knows what they were doing driving it across
country. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Railroad signal batteries. Nickel-iron.
High capacity to weight ratio, thousands of deep discharge cycles,
won't ever freeze, nontoxic electrolyte, lasts 20 years.
Their weakness is poor discharge rate, not a problem in a
trolling application.
Neon John wrote:
Sulfuric acid and salt react to produce sodium sulfate and chlorine gas.
Sea water in contact with electrolyte is a deadly serious concern in a
closed environment like a submarine. Probably not such a problem with a
recreational vessel. I imagine that by the time sufficient sea water is
on board to reach the batteries, the captain has other things to worry
about. :-)
John
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:20:05 -0800, "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
What causes explosions on boats is gasoline. That's why they use diesel.
Diesel smells so electric is a real joy. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Sailboat conversion
Isn't there some sort of problem with batteries and salt water? I seem to
recall either explosions or poison gas.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:42 PM
Subject: RE: Electric Sailboat conversion
I am not affiliated with them but, there is a commercial company here in
FL that installs electric drive systems in boats (mostly sail). They are
up near Tampa, in Tarpon Springs. The company is Solomon Technologies
(http://solomontechnologies.com/).
They are installing BLDC motors and control systems. The company went
public last year and claims a lot of proprietary technology; however, I
have seen a couple of the catamarans they have installed drives in and
its all pretty straightforward stuff. They replace the existing inboard
engine(s) with a BLDC motor(s). Other than maybe the motor itself, all
the rest is off-the-shelf stuff for BLDC drives. They claim special
design considerations and magnet technology for the motors. They do nice
work though. They are currently working with two cat builders to install
the drives systems at the factories. This way you could order the boat
with an electric drive. The two-motor setup on the cats is quite nice
for maneuvering, two joystick controls make docking easy!
The boats still require a generator to keep the batteries topped off and
run all the heavy loads like reefers and A/C, but you can drag the props
under sail and use the motor to regen and charge the batteries as well.
Some builders are installing larger PV arrays to help with the
recharging.
One of the boats is built over in South Africa and I talked to one of
the crew members who sailed it over. They said normally the diesel gen
would run about 16 to 18hrs a day underway, with the PV and regen off
the motors under sail, the diesel only 4 to 6 hrs. He said they want to
increase the battery pack capacity and they only lost a little under a
knot of speed dragging the props.
It's almost perfect, the ability to travel, produce (or harness, in the
case of sailboats) the energy for travel, and recharge all with
alternative / renewable energy.
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MYLES ANTHONY TWETE
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 18:25
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Electric Sailboat conversion (was: RE: I love batts, Low
costs!! was Re: I hate batteries, comments)
Jerry Dycus stated:
So to conclude, while EV's and sailboats can cost too much, they don't
have to if done right.
There's a growing number of sailboat owners who are ditching their
diesels in favor of going electric w/generator backup. Several are
using ETEK or ADC motors, 1 or 2 banks of batts at 36-48v and a 2kw
Honda EU2000i genset. Most of the discussions are taking place on the
Electricboating and the Electricboats Yahoo Groups. Discussions also
occur at the EBAA (Electric Boating Assoc. of America) site.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ElectricBoating/
http://www.eboat.org/forum/
These conversions are occurring for all the right reasons: energy
efficiency, reduced noise and vibration, cost effectiveness and
reliability.
-Myles Twete, Electric Bargeboat "Reach of Tide"
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI folks,
Who is handling Zivan chargers and servicing now?
I am finally getting my Civic conversion back on the road and I think my
Zivan NG5 needs to be reprogrammed to better match the current battery
pack. I originally had the car equipped with 26 EV-1 Delphi 12 Volt
batteries in buddy pairs, for a 156 volt nominal setup. The Zivan was
programmed for a double string of Optima Yellow Tops. Charge at 22.5 Amps
until pack voltage reaches 188 Volts, (14.46 V per battery) then hold 188
Volts till the current drops to 4.6 Amps, then hold current at 4.6 Amps for
1 hour, max voltage limit 216 Volts (16.6 V per battery).
The car is now equipped with a single string of blem Dynasty 12-370 12 Volt
100 AH AGM UPS batteries. These show a max charge current of 20 Amps and
an "equalization and cycle service charging voltage" of 14.4 to 14.8
Volts. I suppose the 22.5 Amps isn't enough higher than the recommended 20
to produce too much of a problem, but what about equalization? What would
be appropriate? 4.6 Amps during equalization may have had something to do
with the problems I have seen with both my Rudman MK1 regs and the
PowerCheq equalizers and the early demise of the Delphis. Isn't that way
too much equalizing current? Anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:09 PM -0500 11-12-04, Christopher Zach wrote:
Correct. The 6.6 unit weighs a small ton. It's got iron in there.
Chris
They look like they are from the little 1.4kw portable unit. I was
referring to the big 6.6kw and 50kw units.
Nope. These are from the wall mount 6.6 kw unit. It's not light, but
it's not as heavy as a 60hz iso unit would be.
See the other pictures here:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/EV1Charger/
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This topic showed up on the BMS list. See the link below for an objective
review of this and other similar charge shuttling techniques
www.delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2001-01-0959.pdf
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: Switched Capacitor Circuit for Charge Equalization
> A good friend of mine is working on that system.
> Last time we talked he's not using it on EV size
> batteries yet. I'll let the list know when they start
> doing extensive testing with larger batteries.
> Rod
> --- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > In researching the web, I stumbled across a paper
> > called "Switched Capacitor
> > System for Automatic Series Battery Equalization",
> > located on:
> > http://www.smartsparkenergy.com/pdf/batteq1.pdf
> >
> > I looked through the archives but could not find any
> > reference to anyone
> > using this type of a circuit for battery balancing.
> > Has anyone tried this?
> > The company Smart Spark Energy builds a unit, but
> > appears only for OEM use.
> >
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>>> They look like they are from the little 1.4kw portable unit.
>>> I was referring to the big 6.6kw and 50kw units.
Christopher Zach wrote:
>> Correct. The 6.6 unit weighs a small ton. It's got iron in there.
Otmar wrote:
> Nope. These are from the wall mount 6.6 kw unit. It's not light, but
> it's not as heavy as a 60hz iso unit would be.
Strange! There must have been a second design. Yours looks similar in
spots, but is overall quite different from the ones we had at Schott
Power.
The ones we had weighed something like 80-100 lbs, and there was a huge
60hz isolation transformer at the base, which is also how they dealt
with 208/240/377/480vac inputs.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michigan manufacturer license plates are all digits with an M
in the middle. When I lived there they took the form 12M345.
The first 2 digits told you which automaker.
Somewhere on the Web must be a listing of those numbers, but
I couldn't find it. If I recall 00M-49M was General Motors,
and Ford and Chrysler split 50M-89M. That didn't leave much
room, and import automakers have been making a big presence in
Metro Detroit. I think that explains why we now see 123M45,
i.e. 3 digits x 2 digits.
Robert
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
How much range Fortunat? It was 90 miles from Sacramento. The plates
were Michigan plates. It had the funny little Japanese mirrors up front
on the fenders. I'm assuming a 150 to 200 mile range. Lawrence
Rhodes......
----- Original Message ----- From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
Lawrence,
was it greenish ?
I assume when you say dealer plates, you mean
M-plates, right ?
I think that is one of ours (not really ours, but we
did all the hard work :)). There are four of these X
trail vehicles that live at the California Fuel Cell
Partnership in Sacramento. I assume this is one of
them.
I am glad to hear it is getting some use.
~fortunat
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was driving across the Bay Bridge Wednesday night
and fell in line behind
a Nissan FCV. The name was X-Trail. It was big.
Michigan dealer plates.
Typical Japanese setup as far as the mirrors. A
real concept car. God
knows what they were doing driving it across
country. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
on dry roads there is a difference. But in poor weather, the
precipitate is the limiter (as is the tread pattern), not the tire
compound, in my experience up here in snowy NH.
Seth
On Nov 12, 2004, at 12:38 PM, W Bryan Andrews wrote:
Ye with much more experience,
I'm looking at putting some low-rolling-resistance tires on my
Voltsrabbit sometime in the near future. I'm concerned about this
idea, though, with a snowy mid-western winter around the corner.
Would these tires decrease my traction noticeably? It would seem
to give up resistance, you have to give up traction as well.
Thanks!
WB
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually that subject heading is misleading...but catchy, no? The Gogo
drives around ok, but
I have two problems to solve:
1) Charging-I have a Lestronic II 48v charger, and in testing, it seems
to have higher settings for both voltage and current than I want to use
on Optimas. I put a series of four Optimas with RudmanMk? (LastYear)
regs. Batteries were all about 12.6 resting voltage, and 3 out of 4
regs lit up immediately. I have these set for 15.35 or so. Short term,
I can substitute the PFC in the Gogo, but I will need it for the Bradley
at some point. I wanted to ask if anybody has looked at one of these
Lestronics to know if they can be tuned down at all?
2) Insurance....I never had a problem with WATTABMR because it was a
1983...The Gogo is a 1958, and it doesn't fit the requirements for any
insurance company I have found. I tried collectors specialty companies,
but they aren't interested, and the conventional companies won'e insure
anything over 25 years old or so. I can't re-register the car without
insurance, and I haven't found anyone to insure it. I thought " what do
people do for the NEVs?"
Any ideas?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Barber wrote:
> I've been researching what it would take to build an AC EV.
> So far I have settled on using one of the Siemens automotive
> motors (hopefully able to find a surplus one on ebay from Ford's
> EV ranger project).
If you do, be sure to get the motor *and* controller. AC system motors
and controllers are designed to work as a team. You don't have the kind
of "mix and match" capability you get with DC systems.
> The problem was that to get the rated max torque nd hp from these
> motors, you would need around 350V. I didn't want to have 2000 lbs
> of batteries, so I had a dilemma.
Battery weight is basically the size of your fuel tank. The percent of
the total vehicle weight that is battery defines your range. Assuming
lead-acid, 50% batteries (an 800 lbs pack in an 800 lbs vehicle = 1600
lbs total weight) gives you great range; like 50-100 miles/charge. 25%
batteries (an 800 lb pack in a 2400 lbs vehicle = 3200 lbs total weight)
gives you poor range; like 20-30 miles/charge.
So, you begin by looking at your range requirement. That tells you how
many pounds of batteries you need. Then, pick a type of battery that
gives you the voltage needed for your motor/controller.
> I found a solution in Lifeline's marine deep cycle AGM batteries...
> Has anyone ever used the Lifeline batteries before?
Yes, I'm using Concorde GPC-1295 AGMs in my EV. They are pushing 7 years
old now. Out of 12, I've had one failure (internal open) and one low
capacity (dropped to about half capacity), but the other 10 are still at
80% capacity and in use. My experience has been that their performance
is in between conventional floodeds and premium AGMs (Hawkers, Optimas).
They do not like high discharge currents.
cost power range life
---- ----- ----- ----
Hawker, Optima AGMs high high low low
Concorde AGMs medium medium medium medium
Flooded golf cart low low high high
Be advised that the ones I used were true deep-cycle batteries. "Marine"
is a euphemism for a compromise between a deep-cycle and a starting
battery. A marine battery generally has a shorter life, but higher power
rating than a deep cycle.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
> I stumbled across a paper called "Switched Capacitor System for
> Automatic Series Battery Equalization"... Has anyone tried this?
Yes, this idea has appeared many times, and has been discussed before on
the EV list. In general, I would say it is an interesting idea that
works, but not well enough to be practical. It is usually re-invented
every so often by people who do not yet have enough experience to
recognize its limitations.
The fundamental problems are low efficiency, and a low balancing rate.
At a casual glance, the efficiency seems like it would be high, but when
you actually measure the power transferred vs. the power lost, you find
it is rather low. The balancing rate is low because the transfer current
very quickly falls to a trivial level, so that it takes days to achieve
a good balance.
After working on it a while, developers come to realize that the same
number of parts could be used to build a much more effective balancing
system.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
greetings
this is Job B Johansen (Sam Uzi) at my new EV email address
I'm guessing you may have already seen the outline for the tv show "That
Electric Vehicle Grin" (currently in pre-pre-production) that Sherry sent
to the SFEAA list.
I was wondering
1) if you are interested/capable of turning your shop/bench into a set for
the show (shoots would be 1-2 days at a time; primarily tech closeups)
2) if you are interested in being an on-camera presenter
ttyl
jon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>>> Zero crossing is actually the *worst* time to turn on a
>>> transformer, as it allows an entire AC half-cycle for the
>>> current surge. If you literally turn on the transformer at
>>> a zero-crossing of the AC line voltage, the surge current
>>> will be its worst.
Neon John wrote:
>> This is completely wrong... The phenomena that causes high surge
>> current into transformers... happens when the initial phase of
>> the applied voltage is such that it adds to the residual magnetism
>> left in the core when the power was previously interrupted at a
>> current peak.
Rich Rudman wrote:
> The inrush being attributed the residual magnitizim from the last
> time it was operated is Bunk... Zero crossing solid state relays
> were designed to reduce the inrush in inductive loads.
Gentlemen, please! This is a serious topic. Let us discuss it without
the insults and arguments!
There have been a number of opinions expressed as to what causes the
inrush current, and the best time to switch a transformer 'on' to
minimize it. But, no one provided any concrete data to back up their
claims. The obvious thing to do is to experiment with a real
transformer, and describe the results in a repeatable manner.
I have a good collection of transformers and toroids, and will do the
test, and report back. My hypothesis is:
1. Where the transformer was in the AC cycle when it was turned off
will have no effect, i.e. there is no residual magnetism causing
saturation effect.
2. Where the AC line voltage is in the AC cycle when the transformer
is the major determiner of the magnitiude of the starting current
surge.
3. I predict the worst place to turn on is when the AC line voltage
is near its zero crossing, and the best place is near the peak of
the AC line voltage.
4. I predict that the off-state voltage across a solid-state relay
will NOT be in-phase with the AC line voltage, due to the
transformer's inductance. Depending on the relay and transformer,
the relay may just happen to see a zero crossing near the peak of
the AC line voltage; if this is the case, then a zero-crossing
solid-state relay would happen to switch "on" at the best time.
I would encourage others to do the experiment for themselves, too. Or
provide data to support your opinions.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
dangit - that was supposed to be private - sorry, please ignore
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An alternative I like is to use a light bulb as the precharge resistor.
When cold, their resistance is very low, so they precharge faster. if
the controller fails to precharge, the light bulb lights up as an
indicator. Its resistance also goes up dramatically, so it self-limits
the current.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
==============
Hi Lee,
I like the bulb idea in as much as it is not gigantic :-)
What bulb would you recommand for a
275 A 36-48 V 1204Z Curtis used in a 48V system?
I am interested by the smaller option in term of required space (volume).
Thanks, JCT
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--- Begin Message ---
I dug up a bit more data on this story:
Starting next year, some type of solar panel will be mandatory for all
new construction and renovation greater than 1000 square meters across
all of Spain. While the panels will be primarily the water heat panels
at first, the amount of installed photovoltaic panels is expected to
rise dramatically as well.
It is reported that some cities and/or regions are thinking to improve
those federal minimums with local orders for smaller houses and a
specific percentage of photovoltaic panels.
For example, the council of a village close to Madrid called Rivas
Vaciamadrid decided that all new builds from 2005 on must be equipped
with both thermal and photovoltaic panels in order to produce extra
electric power for sale to the power company.
7.10 percent of all photovoltaic solar panels are manufactured in Spain,
but so far local market penetration has been very poor. Strong PV
technology R&D programs for the silicon cells exist at several Spanish
universities. Spanish officials want to see the PV panels sales take off
as well.
http://www.asif.org/ for more details en espanol
http://world.altavista.com/ for bad Spanish to English translation of
the site
Thanks to V is for Voltage reporter Manuel Gonzalez of Madrid who
assisted with our man-on-the-spot research!
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Uzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I'm guessing you may have already seen the outline for the tv show "That
> Electric Vehicle Grin" (currently in pre-pre-production) that Sherry sent
> to the SFEAA list.
>
This sounds a little like what I'm doing with EVTV and my convert your gas
car to electric video. I didn't see your outline , Mine is we start with
the gas truck and end with a ride with the new owner , after showing
everything in between .
> I was wondering
>
> 1) if you are interested/capable of turning your shop/bench into a set for
> the show (shoots would be 1-2 days at a time; primarily tech closeups)
>
My shop is in the back yard with lots of home made tools
> 2) if you are interested in being an on-camera presenter
>
Having a video that one can offer to people after showing off there car is
a great idea , I have plenty of room on my cd's for other ev stuff , some
ev drag races , other peoples projects , .
Steve Clunn www.grassrootsev.com
>
> ttyl
> jon
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have a good web site on equalization / BMS for lead acid?
other battery types?
I found the data you are looking for. Basically, this is a major
emerging science.
www.delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2001-01-0959.pdf
Here is the main discussion group:
http://tinyurl.com/4gt45
Hope this helps!
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is the main discussion group:
http://tinyurl.com/4gt45
Sorry. That was supposed to be back channel. Too many hours in front of
the monitor....
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can someone record this, and create a downloadable video so we can all see
it?
Or will CBS/KPIX make it available?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 2:55 PM
Subject: Th!nk story on CBS
I just received the following from Steve Fyffe.
Feedback to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA4
79935
<link>
w w w . b r o a d c a s t i n g c a b l e . c o m
----------
30 Minutes with Don Hewitt
By Allison Romano -- Broadcasting & Cable, 11/12/2004 8:52:00 AM
Legendary 60 Minutes producer Don Hewitt is going local.
Hewitt, who retired earlier this year from the CBS news magazine he
pioneered, is taking a page from the late CBS correspondent Charles
Kurault
and taking his show, or at least the format, on the road. The result: 30
Minutes, a locally branded, half-hour news magazine to be produced at
various CBS stations.
His first stop is San Francisco, where CBS O&O KPIX will air 30 Bay Area
Minutes Nov. 14 at 6:30 p.m. PT.
The premiere episode will feature three stories: "Broken Promises," about
Ford Motor Company's environmental efforts with the city of San Francisco;
"Grow Your Own Facelift," about a tissue engineering drug that can
reproduce facial tissue; and "Investment of Champions" about HRJ Capital,
an investment company backed by former San Francisco 49ers football
players.
Hewitt plans to do four shows a year.
<<< Back | Print
© 2004, Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All
Rights Reserved.
Akilah Monifa
Director of Communications
CBS 5/UPN Bay Area
KPIX/KBHK Television
855 Battery St.
San Francisco, CA 94111-1597
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415 765 8842
415 760 0688 mobile
415 765 8860 fax
http://www.cbs5.com
http://www.upnbayarea.com
--------------------------------------------------
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95405 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
http://www.npcimaging.com
ex-Th!nk City EV driver
President, North Bay Electric Auto Association
"Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
***************************************************************
** CoachMe - Complete Opera/Soloist Roles on audio CD **
** 59 CD sheet music titles: thousands of pages from $18.95! **
** CD-ROM versions of Ted Ross and Stiller Handbook **
** Books by Powell, Stone, Ross, Gerou & Lusk, Stiller, etc. **
** Dover miniature & full-size orchestral scores in stock **
***************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken, the paper you cited is for "LiIon" batteries (and largely for Hybrid
Vehicles), Peter asked for lead acid. Here are some other papers of
interest. Watch out though, some promote the "switched capacitor" circuit,
which Lee and Victor discourage.
http://power.ece.uiuc.edu/Balog/images/intelec02.pdf Life Extension Through
Charge Equalization of Lead-Acid Batteries
http://www.smartsparkenergy.com/pdf/batteq2.pdf Equalization of VRLA -
issues and real life tests
http://www.smartsparkenergy.com/pdf/batteq3.pdf Equalization requirements
for Series VRLA Batteries
Here are some actual equalizers:
Lee Hart's balancer: http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/
A charge shuttle device: http://www.skiebus.com/bms.htm
PowerCheq charge shuttling:
http://www.powerdesigners.com/products/PowerCheq/PowerCheq.shtm
Rudman Regulators: http://www.manzanitamicro.com/parts.htm
AC Electric's shunt battery equalizer: http://www.acev.fi/bms.htm
Metric Mind's battery management system for Lithium:
http://www.metricmind.com/index1.htm
There is also BatPro and Badicheq, but I cannot seem to find web pages for
them.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ken Trough
Sent: November 13, 2004 5:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Equaliztion Sites
> Does anyone have a good web site on equalization / BMS for lead acid?
> other battery types?
I found the data you are looking for. Basically, this is a major emerging
science.
www.delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2001-01-0959.pdf
Here is the main discussion group:
http://tinyurl.com/4gt45
Hope this helps!
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On a PB-6 potbox, does the N.O. prong function just the opposite of the N.C.
prong? That is, does it pass current when the throttle is resting in the
full off position (pressing the microswitch), and block current when the
throttle is pulled away from the microswitch? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are some other papers of interest.
Sweet Don! Thanks for the links. I'll pass them along.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
JCT wrote:
>
> From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> An alternative I like is to use a light bulb as the precharge resistor.
> When cold, their resistance is very low, so they precharge faster. if
> the controller fails to precharge, the light bulb lights up as an
> indicator. Its resistance also goes up dramatically, so it self-limits
> the current.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> ==============
> Hi Lee,
> I like the bulb idea in as much as it is not gigantic :-)
> What bulb would you recommand for a 275A 36-48V 1204Z Curtis
> used in a 48V system?
The bulb voltage just needs to be higher than the pack voltage. Since
48v light bulbs are rare, I'd use a regular 120v light bulb. If you
install a regular Mazda lamp socket, you can try different wattage bulbs
until you get a quick enough precharge to satisfy you. I used a 75w
bulb.
> I am interested by the smaller option in term of required space
> (volume).
Light bulbs are small, but remember that they get HOT! Normally, the
bulb will just flash momentarily. But if your controller has failed
"on", or you have the throttle pressed when you try to precharge the
controller, the bulb will remain lit and can get hot.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee, thanks for the feedback, especially the explanation about how the
balancing rate works. I am curious about a couple of things:
1. Where does the power get lost in this system?
2. Do you know any more details about the more effective system they
designed or built?
3. I hate to ask, but wandering through the archives, I am curious to know
what is "state of the art" in AGM balancing for EV use? Is it still the
Hart Regulator, Rudman Regs, Hart Balancer, PowerCheq? Anything on the
horizon that shows promise?
thanks,
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: November 12, 2004 11:18 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Switched Capacitor Circuit for Charge Equalization
Don Cameron wrote:
> I stumbled across a paper called "Switched Capacitor System for
> Automatic Series Battery Equalization"... Has anyone tried this?
Yes, this idea has appeared many times, and has been discussed before on the
EV list. In general, I would say it is an interesting idea that works, but
not well enough to be practical. It is usually re-invented every so often by
people who do not yet have enough experience to recognize its limitations.
The fundamental problems are low efficiency, and a low balancing rate.
At a casual glance, the efficiency seems like it would be high, but when you
actually measure the power transferred vs. the power lost, you find it is
rather low. The balancing rate is low because the transfer current very
quickly falls to a trivial level, so that it takes days to achieve a good
balance.
After working on it a while, developers come to realize that the same number
of parts could be used to build a much more effective balancing system.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!"
-- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
> 1. Where does the power get lost in this system?
Ultimately, you have an RC network (the flying capacitor is the C, and
the R is the total resistance of all the parts; capacitor ESR, MOSFET
on-resistance, etc.). In an RC network, the R dissipates the voltage
difference between the battery and capacitor as heat. This is where
about half the power goes.
> 2. Do you know any more details about the more effective system they
> designed or built?
No. My own guess is that once they saw how many parts it took to make
their flying capacitor system work, they decided that one of the other
systems they discussed didn't look so bad after all.
> 3. I am curious to know what is "state of the art" in AGM balancing
> for EV use?
The "state of the art" is still in development. There are perhaps a
dozen methods in use, and none of them has achieved mass production or
market dominance.
I think one problem is that all mass produced EVs take the "overcharge
the batteries to balance, and let the user pay the price in more
frequent battery replacement" route. Manufacturers won't pay *anything*
for balancers, because it's not their problem.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
