EV Digest 4037
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) looking for low-voltage output charger with CAN functionality
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Tango's nationality
by Steve Gaarder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) FL EAA Meeting
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) 1966 Corvair
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) John's brain and EV costs, was Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist
Repossession
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) site: McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Retiring the E-woody, RE: Coilovers for Ghia's, bugs, was Batts in
Ghia's,
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: site: McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) regen...
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) OT: converting generator to natural gas
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Longer range thought.
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) battery voltage
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: regen...
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 92 geo tracker for sale
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: site: McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Fw: EVLN(Th!nk 'Public' EV 12k, launch later this year)Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: regen...
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: regen...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Next-Generation Nanotech Power Cell Batteries
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know if there is a charger with an output voltage range that
goes down as low as 50-60V and which has CAN functionality?
(The Brusa chargers have CAN functionality but don't go lower than 130V.
Rich's PFC chargers go all the way down to 10V, but I don't think they have
CAN functionality.)
BTW, this is for a test cycle evaluation we are setting up on some li-ion
batts, where we want to evaluate the performance of the integrated BMS,
which uses CAN bus to interface with the charger.
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Rick Woodbury has been in England for some time now, setting up the
> agreement with Prodrive to build the production versions of Tango.
Well, since it's only one seat wide, we don't need to worry about
left-hand vs right-hand drive :-)
Steve Gaarder
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Everyone - worth reading.
Remarkable was statement of Ford spokesman who said:
clearly, ZEVs could be easily built today if they wanted to.
This is actually publicly admiting that Ford doesn't want to.
Thanks for posting this link Danny.
Victor
Danny Ames wrote:
http://yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_17127.shtml
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--- Begin Message ---
To all the FL EV'ers, the FL EAA is having a meeting this Saturday January
22nd in Titusville. The meeting will be at the Roadhouse grill on Hwy 50 and
I-95 from 1PM to 3:30.
If anyone needs more info, please email me off-list. Hope to see lots of
folks there!
Thanks,
--
Shawn M. Waggoner
Florida Electric Auto Assoc.
http://www.floridaeaa.org
Custom Honda Electric Motorcycle 72V
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:10:06 -0800, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Everyone - worth reading.
Yaaa, busted my sides laughing. Where do they get this stuff? Better
than Comedy Central.
>
>Remarkable was statement of Ford spokesman who said:
>clearly, ZEVs could be easily built today if they wanted to.
>
>This is actually publicly admiting that Ford doesn't want to.
And the reason Ford doesn't "want" to? Because no company "wants" to
build a product that nobody will buy. A couple hundred lunatic fringe
don't count.
Actually that story explains quite well why major OEMs crush instead of
sell prototype vehicles like these EVs. Consider "rancher" Rayboy. What
does he do after Ford decides not to sell him a vehicle that belongs to
Ford? Why, he runs to the attorney general, of course.
With juries awarding one hundred million verdicts against the car
companies right and left for little more than the failure of 20/20
hindsight, do you REALLY think they're going to sell prototypes to the
class of people most likely to litigate? Ya, right.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
With juries awarding one hundred million verdicts against the car
companies right and left for little more than the failure of 20/20
hindsight, do you REALLY think they're going to sell prototypes to the
class of people most likely to litigate? Ya, right.
John
You answered your own question John - if they don't sell
prototypes, they will get sued anyway for not doing that.
So may as well sell - they will be sued in either case,
but at least can make some money on sale rather than
crush.
Suing was not for unwilingless to sell, but for clearly
stating on leasing contract that they will, and then after
signing that, baking off and revert decision they promised
to fulfill. Just like breaking any contract.
If ford would never promise to sell after lease, the case
would be much harger to make.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
532 volts using silver-zinc batteries. 115 hp AC-Induction
motor. Top speed of 80 mph. Range was 40 to 80 miles. All
that back in 1966??
http://www.corvaircorsa.com/monzapr7.html
http://www.cardatabase.net/search/search.php?model=Electrovair%20II
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This story was related to me by one of our local EPA reps. I hope I am
getting the details correct.
Our local EPA office PURCHASED (not leased) a Ranger EV several years
ago. They also purchased a long-term service contract for the Ranger, I
think with the option to buy more Rangers and add them to the
contract. Last year Ford informed them that they would no longer be
honoring the service contract and not to bring the Ranger in for any
further servicing as they would no longer support it. When it was pointed
out that a contract is supposed to be a contract, Ford basically said ,
"too bad". The EPA office responded by informing them that if Ford
intended to do any further business with any branch of the US Government
they might want to reconsider their position. Ford then purchased the
Ranger back from the EPA, and transferred the service contract to existing
ICE vehicles in the EPA fleet.
Maybe I an naive, but I find it staggering that a corporation can feel so
empowered that it doesn't feel it should have follow the terms of a signed
contract. Personally, I would think that a lease with option to buy
contract should be absolutely binding. When is the last time you saw the
average Joe allowed to abuse the concept of a contract this way?
I am also curious why no-one has pointed out that Ford SOLD a number of
those Rangers, so they aren't really prototypes. Several have moved
thought the EV Tradin' Post. Once you sell one then it should be hard to
justify not selling another. Off-course, that didn't stop GM either. A
few S-10EVs were sold and still survive, but the rest are long gone. It is
stupid really. Either you are selling something or you aren't. Changing
the rules in the middle of the game is not supposed to be an option.
FWIW, while I feel Ford's action is inexcusable, this protest is probably
not going to make EVers look any more mainstream. The day may come when
energy costs, environmental concerns, and or technical advances put more
EVs on the road and maybe even on Ford's assembly lines, but this doesn't
seem to me to be the way to make that happen any sooner.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Neon John <jojohngdebellsouthet> wrote:
> Actually that story explains quite well why major
> OEOEMsrush instead of
> sell prototype vehicles like these EVEVs Consider
> "rancher" Rayboy What
> does he do after Ford decides not to sell him a
> vehicle that belongs to
> Ford? Why, he runs to the attorney general, of
> course.
I was a leasee of the Ford Ranger as well and I resent
you trying to paint "rancher Rayboy" as the one who
won't live up to the lease terms. Ford is the one that
did not live up to the terms of the lease. Mine
allowed a lease renewal on a yearly basis as long as
there were no major repairs required. Ford violated
that term. Also at the end of a lease, I was sent a
letter offering to sell me the car, an offer I
immediately accepted and sent a check. Ford then broke
that promise too.
> With juries awarding one hundred million verdicts
> against the car
> companies right and left for little more than the
> failure of 20/20
This is a ridiculous argument that is continually
recycled by the automakers. Ford and GM both got
letters offering purchases of their EV's with an offer
of a legal contract releasing them from any and all
future and past liability for the product. That's a
sweetheart deal they don't have on a single other
vehicle. Did it make any difference? Of course not,
because this argument is a mere distraction designed
to resonate with people's dislike of trial lawyers. It
has nothing to do with their real motivations.
> hindsight, do you REALLY think they're going to sell
> prototypes
This is another bit of automaker spin you have bought
into. The Ranger EV, the EV1, the Toyota RAV4-EV, the
Nissan Altra etc, etc, were all PRODUCTION vehicles.
The automakers never sell or lease any "prototype" or
"experimental" vehicles to the public. Just try buying
one at any auto show. They are just using these terms
to add an air of mystery to what is in reality a very
simple yet revolutionary product. It's all just a PR
game to confuse the public.
As far as their claims that nobody wanted production
EV's, that too doesn't hold any water. Every single
production EV had long waiting lists for leases and
purchases. Their was never one "sitting" on a dealers
lot waiting for a buyer. All of the automakers selling
or leasing to the public stopped making the EV's with
people still on the waiting list.
-Sam
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 18 Jan 2005 at 17:31, Neon John wrote:
> What
> does he do after Ford decides not to sell him a vehicle that belongs to
> Ford? Why, he runs to the attorney general, of course.
Raboy (correct spelling) took legal action when Ford reneged on its
option-to-purchase
contract. I'm not an attorney, but if the story is accurate and I understand
it correctly,
I'm fairly sure that is indeed legally actionable.
> Because no company "wants" to build a product that nobody will buy.
Of course not, but to state that "nobody will buy" these EVs is a reckless
exaggeration. The evidence shows that customers existed and still exist for
these
vehicles. Whether it's a sufficient number to make a viable business depends
on a
great many factors - including the seller's commitment to building the
business.
Hybrids didn't sell themselves; they had to be sold to potential buyers. The
same has
been true for every newly introduced vehicle. Any auto dealer will tell you
that sales
jump dramatically when a vehicle line receives national television advertising.
How do
you think that so many of those mediocre Hyundai Excels were sold in the late
1980s?
They put 'em on TV, and suddenly the dealers could barely keep them in stock.
It was through extensive advertising (and some feature tweaks) that the
automakers
built a market for trucks and SUVs - which used to be regarded mostly as
vehicles for
tradesmen and off-roaders - among middle- to upper-income suburbanites.
Of course, one could argue that the immense profits to be made from each such
unit
sold easily justified the investment in marketing. But Toyota invested in
advertising
and promoting the Prius when they were still losing money on each unit. They
did so
because they were reasonably sure that early losses would return their
investment,
and then some, later. That's called vision.
This level of marketing was never done with Ranger EVs and GM EV1s. Whether
their
market research (if indeed it really was ever conducted) accurately gauged the
potential long-term market for these EVs, or whether someone had his thumb on
the
scale, we'll never know, unless someone succeeds to open up GM's and Ford's
research results and methodology to public scrutiny. That's very unlikely.
> A couple hundred lunatic fringe ...
Presumably Mr. DeArmond is qualified to label them so because he's personally
acquainted with all of them. <grin>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
John, you are pretty smart in a lot of
things but your views on this are not well informed.
Every EV that's been offered for sale has
been snapped up quickly.
So how can you say the bull you do? The
auto companies have hired many PR flacks to put out
false info as they themselves have like no one wants
to buy them without bothering to say that they won't
sell them to be bought.
Every EV available for lease has been
snapped up and the owners beggging to keep them as
they love them dispite hugh obstacles put in their
way.
Big corps are afraid of change and why they
are going downhill in market share by not giving the
public what they show they want, EV's in many cases.
As a boat builder I know how to put things
into production and there is nothing in the way of
producing a good, low cost EV with 100 mile range and
80 mph top speed using with the exception of
controllers, 1970's tech.
I could do one for under $15,000 with a
$5,000 profit in 10 lot quanities and will as soon as
I can raise the $30,000 start-up capital. But that's
hard with all the lies that the auto companies put out
and people like you who know little about these
things.
You know electrical, what are the obstacles
to the EV drive part? What would a production EV drive
for a 2 passenger, 2,000lb commuter cost?
My studies say it's under $3,000 in 100 lot
quanities including batts. That's about equal to what
an ICE drive system would cost if you include
radiator, gas tank, exhaust, transmission, ect that an
EV doesn't need, maybe less .
Priced out it comes to $400 motor, $200
charger, $400- 96vdc, 1,000 amp controller, $70dc/dc,
$200 wiring, $1,000 for 1,000lbs batts for 50% batt
weight is only $2,270 with $730 for anything else
needed and if costs are a little more than planned in
100 lot buys, no? If in 50,000 unit lots the price
drops farther, No?
Since they sell gas cars for under $10,000
with an engine, the whole thing should cost under
$15,000 with a $3-5,000 profit. No?
The rest of the costs are the same so
what's the holdup of them selling these? There are
many demonstrated buyers out their just waiting for a
company to sell EV's to them.
Many, 10,000 plus are so desperate to get
them they even build their own! No? How many would
want them if they could buy a reasonably priced one
off the showroom floor? At least 200,000 a yr to
retirees, students, commuters, eco-nuts, ect are just
a few of those needing, wanting them.
Many of our seniors down here in Fla are
golf cart owners for transport, they would love to
have an EV that could go outside their limited area
they can use their GC, NEV's in. Probably 50,000yr of
EV's just for them!!
You just need to look at Sam's post below for
how EV owners feel.
I look forward to your answer,
jerry dycus
--- Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- Neon John <jojohngdebellsouthet> wrote:
>
> > Actually that story explains quite well why major
> > OEOEMsrush instead of
> > sell prototype vehicles like these EVEVs Consider
> > "rancher" Rayboy What
> > does he do after Ford decides not to sell him a
> > vehicle that belongs to
> > Ford? Why, he runs to the attorney general, of
> > course.
>
> I was a leasee of the Ford Ranger as well and I
> resent
> you trying to paint "rancher Rayboy" as the one who
> won't live up to the lease terms. Ford is the one
> that
> did not live up to the terms of the lease. Mine
> allowed a lease renewal on a yearly basis as long as
> there were no major repairs required. Ford violated
> that term. Also at the end of a lease, I was sent a
> letter offering to sell me the car, an offer I
> immediately accepted and sent a check. Ford then
> broke
> that promise too.
>
> > With juries awarding one hundred million verdicts
> > against the car
> > companies right and left for little more than the
> > failure of 20/20
>
> This is a ridiculous argument that is continually
> recycled by the automakers. Ford and GM both got
> letters offering purchases of their EV's with an
> offer
> of a legal contract releasing them from any and all
> future and past liability for the product. That's a
> sweetheart deal they don't have on a single other
> vehicle. Did it make any difference? Of course not,
> because this argument is a mere distraction designed
> to resonate with people's dislike of trial lawyers.
> It
> has nothing to do with their real motivations.
>
> > hindsight, do you REALLY think they're going to
> sell
> > prototypes
>
> This is another bit of automaker spin you have
> bought
> into. The Ranger EV, the EV1, the Toyota RAV4-EV,
> the
> Nissan Altra etc, etc, were all PRODUCTION vehicles.
> The automakers never sell or lease any "prototype"
> or
> "experimental" vehicles to the public. Just try
> buying
> one at any auto show. They are just using these
> terms
> to add an air of mystery to what is in reality a
> very
> simple yet revolutionary product. It's all just a PR
> game to confuse the public.
>
> As far as their claims that nobody wanted production
> EV's, that too doesn't hold any water. Every single
> production EV had long waiting lists for leases and
> purchases. Their was never one "sitting" on a
> dealers
> lot waiting for a buyer. All of the automakers
> selling
> or leasing to the public stopped making the EV's
> with
> people still on the waiting list.
>
> -Sam
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
>
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those in northerly climes, this site shows some pretty detailed
pictures of their conversion effort.
This may have been reported on before, but I can't remember it.
link:
http://www.electricsnowmobile.mcgill.ca/English/snowmobile.htm
--
Paul Wujek
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve, Neon and All,
--- Steve Marks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jerry,
>
> The shocks are Strange Engineering Double Adjustable
> shocks, with 200lbs
> springs. While I'm confident you can get them at a
> better price, mine
> was around $650 per pair with springs.
Wow! That's about what I paid for building my
whole E-woody in parts with the first set of used
batts!! Bet they are nice ones though. Thanks anyways,
maybe someone esle will benefit fron the info.
As for Neon's suggestion, my bottom tube is
encased with wood/epoxy so cutting into it for an
adjuster is isn't possible. I'll do that on the next
one and tilt the tubes aft some to get more batt
weight ability.
I guess I'll give up on ever making it work and
put my money on building a better one. Cheaper and
about the same work as refinishing the old one.
Building a 1 front wheel version from wood/epoxy
based on a golf cart transaxle so put my cash into it.
The old E-woody was going to be hard to make look
decent as it has been out in the weather for 9 yrs. It
had a good run though and I've got my money's worth
out of it. Still runs but limited to 45mph and 35 mile
range without more batts. I went 60 mph with 4 12v
batts but range was short, batts didn't last.
But I need a great looking EV to show off and
promote EV's so a new one is the best bet now. It will
have a provision for a generator for long distance
travel when needed which, because of weight
restrictions the old one couldn't use while driving.
Thanks,
jerry dycus
>
> Steve
>
> -------
>
> The site describes the distribution of batteries
> around the vehicle in
> the Current Tasks page. On the Pictures page
> there's a 3D model you can
> rotate to get a visual on where everything goes -
> you'll need to
> download a VRML viewer to view it but a link to a
> free one is supplied
> on that page.
>
> The Ghia has a four link to adjust the ride height
> but I'll have to look
> up the information on the coilovers and get back to
> you.
>
> Steve
Hi Steve and All,
> --- Steve Marks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > The Ghiamonster ( http://www.ghiamonster.com )
> will
> > have 84 of the 11 lb
> > SVR batteries in it for a total of about 924 lbs.
> > We used coilovers and
> > should be under 3000 lbs total for the vehicle
> when
> > it's finally
> > completed.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> This is another bit of automaker spin you have bought
> into. The Ranger EV, the EV1, the Toyota RAV4-EV, the
> Nissan Altra etc, etc, were all PRODUCTION vehicles.
> The automakers never sell or lease any "prototype" or
> "experimental" vehicles to the public. Just try buying
> one at any auto show. They are just using these terms
> to add an air of mystery to what is in reality a very
> simple yet revolutionary product. It's all just a PR
> game to confuse the public.
>
> As far as their claims that nobody wanted production
> EV's, that too doesn't hold any water. Every single
> production EV had long waiting lists for leases and
> purchases. Their was never one "sitting" on a dealers
> lot waiting for a buyer. All of the automakers selling
> or leasing to the public stopped making the EV's with
> people still on the waiting list.
>
> -Sam
I was lucky enough to lease a Ranger until 2003, when they towed it off our
street! I was never offered an extension of the lease or an option to buy. In
my one town of Vacaville, there were over 200 people waiting to buy an EV, but
there were too few vehicles for them to even get a lease, and only a handful
were able to buy a RAV4 EV from Toyota before that, too, was cancelled.
I think the 2 Ranger EV leasees protestors are out-of-step with the proper way
to get things done -- their way *does* peg them as the lunatic fringe...like
that guy in the Mid-West who is already camping in front of a movie theater to
be the first to get in to the final Star Wars movie (despite not even knowing
if it will be shown there and 4 months wait if it is).
It becomes a political discussion if you start calling people names for their
desire to drive electric cars, and does not belong on this list.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> For those in northerly climes, this site shows some pretty detailed
> pictures of their conversion effort.
>
> This may have been reported on before, but I can't remember it.
>
> link:
>
> http://www.electricsnowmobile.mcgill.ca/English/snowmobile.htm
>
> --
> Paul Wujek
I can't find anywhere on their site a listing of the batteries they are using --
looks like a good candidate for NiCd or NiMH, or would lithium work at -40C and
below?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is sort of a question for Rich but others can
chime in. Part of my drive is going up a mountain
road, down through a valley then up the other side.
with a bit of regen I could get the range I need and
not have to ride my brakes for miles. I'm putting it
in a small light weight car. I'm looking for a simple
and cheap regen solution. I'm thinking of putting a
10k alternator in line with my ADC drive motor and a
set of contacts to engage the alternator when the
pedal is released. could I just put PFC charger on the
output of the alternator? would it control the output
well enough with the variety of voltages/frequencies
coming out of the alternator?
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I sent this Sunday, and again Monday, but it doesn't look like it took!
Rod,
I recently converted my 10kW Honda to LPG (or CNG) using a US Carburetion
kit (www.uscarb.com). I've been using it as a range extender while pulling
a trailer, and the propane is soooo much cleaner. In fact, I don't mind the
exhaust smell as much, which I hated when I was using gasoline.
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:44:25 -0800 (PST)
>From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>A couple people have mentioned converting their
>gasoline power genset to operate on natural gas.
>Does anybody have links that show how to do
>this?
>Thanks,
>Rod
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I sent this Sunday, and again Monday, but it doesn't look like it took!
All,
For me, having more than one EV means driving more electrically, and less
with gasoline. I highly recommend having one long range lead-sled, and one
short range kick-in-the-pants EV. For example, while the lead-sled is bulk
charging after a long trip, I have the quick and nimble car for local
trips. If you're looking at getting your first EV going, shoot for
something attainable, but keep in mind, the more EV's the merrier!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:09:29 -0800
>From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>I often thought of setting up 2 EV's to solve long day problems.If your house
>is in the middle of the day, like mine: home->work->home->(errands or
>school)->home, you can just switch cars mid-day
>
>But what about if you had to commute 60 miles each way and time was the
>limit on chargeing at the destination or you had to charge a distance
>from work, like at a garage or a fellow EV'ers.
>Why not have 2 EV's leave one at or near destination and just drive the
>few miles to pick it up after work and swap.
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005
>
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--- Begin Message ---
All,
Having "opened" over 400 EVDL posts over the weekend to play catch-up, I'm
a little burned out on it because of the LED lighting thread ad-nauseam,
and the same newbie questions over and over again, but I would like to make
some comments about the politics and the charter. Unlike Wayland, I don't
mind the "Backdoor Politics" that come from long time members and
contributors like John Bryan and Bob Rice. If they are like myself, I only
subscribe to this Internet list and all of you make up my EV family. And
just like Dave Davidson mentions, I also have friends (and non-EV family
members) from both ends of the political spectrum, and I like to know their
political stances to better communicate with them. Since this list is my EV
family, knowing the individuals and there political stance seems normal to
me, even if it's against the EV charter. I don't want to join another list
and become PC (politically correct) by only interacting with people that
share the same political beliefs that I do. Besides, I haven't found many
progressive rednecks like myself! The little town that I live in is
becoming more PC all the time, like Boulder were I was born, and it makes
me sick. Years ago a hippie and a redneck could hang out together in
Boulder, but it has become a lot like this list lately, way too polarized.
Anyway, what makes me want to quit this list is when someone starts
attacking long time members like Lee Hart, who contributes a wealth of
information to help anyone and everyone, including newbies, instead of just
telling them to go read the archives or go read an EV book, which is what I
feel like saying sometimes. I've asked Lee questions off-list and actually
gotten responses, which I can't say about other long-time list members! I'm
trying not to be negative so I'll stop here. I usually take David Roden's
advice and just walk away instead of responding, but I've contributed both
on and off this list and rarely waste band-width, and needed to talk with
my EV family before we become more dysfunctional!
I just read Chris Tromley's post on this thread, and it's balls-on!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
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--- Begin Message ---
Sorry if this appears twice. I sent the first one 10 hrs ago and it never
appeared.
While winter in the bay area isn't cold when compared to some parts of the
country, it's colder than summer and with that, down goes my range. My pack is
72v and when I get to work it's at 71.14 (or so) immediatly after stopping.
Within 10 or 20 seconds it's back to 72.2 (or so). I've just climed a 5 story
parking structure. I know that I need to let it rest to get a true state of
charge but am I dragging it down too low? I remember Lee making a comment once
about returning to 2v / cell pretty quickly but I don't know if that's
seconds or minutes.
thanks,
Steve
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Gadget, On our two ton plus Land Rover I was smoking the brakes going
down the 6% plus mountain grades out of Jerome, Arizona. I took a 100 amp
Delco truck alternator and had the it rewound with much more windings and
isolated the negative from the frame and installed a Negative external post.
I also put in much larger diodes. It was mounted with an electric clutch
from an air conditioner. It was activated by a switch on the dash or the
brake light switch which would engage the pulley and full field the
alternator. When going down the hill it would hold the beast back while
dumping 20 plus amps at 240 volts back into the 192 volt pack. This is about
5 kw. This is a fairly inexpensive regen system for series motors which can
be accomplished by most back yarders. If you wanted more regen control you
could vary the field strength. 100% politic free post :-)
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:39 PM
Subject: regen...
This is sort of a question for Rich but others can
chime in. Part of my drive is going up a mountain
road, down through a valley then up the other side.
with a bit of regen I could get the range I need and
not have to ride my brakes for miles. I'm putting it
in a small light weight car. I'm looking for a simple
and cheap regen solution. I'm thinking of putting a
10k alternator in line with my ADC drive motor and a
set of contacts to engage the alternator when the
pedal is released. could I just put PFC charger on the
output of the alternator? would it control the output
well enough with the variety of voltages/frequencies
coming out of the alternator?
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I read my mail too late and the auction already closed at $1875, but out
of curiosity....
Anyone know what type of drive train might be found in a Geo Tracker?
billb wrote:
Hi Folks,
I noticed a 92 geo tracker for sale on the gsa site
http://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/gsaauctions/
get in and search by state for Massachusetts. Other than a broken
windshield appears intact.
bidding is at $1000 and will close on the 18th.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.electricsnowmobile.mcgill.ca/English/team.htm shows a box on top
of the tunnel behind the seat. It looks like an insulated pizza delivery
oven. That may be how they keep the batteries warm.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: site: McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team
> > For those in northerly climes, this site shows some pretty detailed
> > pictures of their conversion effort.
> >
> > This may have been reported on before, but I can't remember it.
> >
> > link:
> >
> > http://www.electricsnowmobile.mcgill.ca/English/snowmobile.htm
> >
> > --
> > Paul Wujek
>
> I can't find anywhere on their site a listing of the batteries they are
using --
> looks like a good candidate for NiCd or NiMH, or would lithium work
at -40C and
> below?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Didn't go the first try, again!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Th!nk 'Public' EV 12k, launch later this year)Comments
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "evlist" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 7:46 PM
> Subject: EVLN(Th!nk 'Public' EV 12k, launch later this year)
> > Snip a Bit_
>
> > The Norwegian electric city car manufacturer saved in 2003 by a new
> >
> > Swiss owner from closure by former owner Ford has developed a new
> > Th!nk Public model.
> >
> > Th!nk Public, due for launch later this year, is a four-seater with
> >
> > a maximum speed of just 30mph, intended mainly for passengers
> > transferring from airports and stations to city centres.
> >
> > An > -
> > Hi EVerybody;
>
> Just as I thought, Gees! A GOOD thing in the E mail to wake up to
this
> AM, .....til I read again and deeper. NUTS! ANOTHER @#$% slow NEV! We
> need more of these like flat tires! Maybe the new Think Poke- ick ,4
seater
> could be tuned to the old Thinks' 60 or so top end, so ya could do a cross
> town burst on the freeway? Like our conversions.
>
> THINK!,..... Think, the car we all know and loved, hiway capabable,
> don't let it die!! Gussy it up with newer batteries, we know it works as a
> concept, don't hafta re-invent the EV!4 seater, so you can haul the kids
to
> school, on and on. There's a whole World waiting!
> >
> > Thanks to George Clooney, for your support, actually stepping up to
the
> plate and BUYING an EV!! Bet he'll love the Tango! I would! Others will
> follow, wait and see? Jey Leno? He's a car buff?How many Tangoes will fit
in
> a Jets' cargo hold?Or you could get in a stripped out, used,
Concorde<g>?Or
> empty supply planes coming back from Iraq??
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
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What is the frequency of the alternator? How fast will you be spinning it?
The doubt that the PFC works correctly at 400 Hz. It has never been tested
over 60 Hz.
If the alternator is three phase, you can rectify all three phases and put
the DC rail into the charger.
Make sure the DC rail never goes over 400 VDC or the logic power supply goes
bang.
An aircraft generator might work better since they put out DC and work up to
8000 RPM. By adjusting the field, you can get almost any output voltage you
want.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:39 PM
Subject: regen...
> This is sort of a question for Rich but others can
> chime in. Part of my drive is going up a mountain
> road, down through a valley then up the other side.
> with a bit of regen I could get the range I need and
> not have to ride my brakes for miles. I'm putting it
> in a small light weight car. I'm looking for a simple
> and cheap regen solution. I'm thinking of putting a
> 10k alternator in line with my ADC drive motor and a
> set of contacts to engage the alternator when the
> pedal is released. could I just put PFC charger on the
> output of the alternator? would it control the output
> well enough with the variety of voltages/frequencies
> coming out of the alternator?
>
> Gadget
>
> =====
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> This is sort of a question for Rich but others can
> chime in. Part of my drive is going up a mountain
> road, down through a valley then up the other side.
> with a bit of regen I could get the range I need and
> not have to ride my brakes for miles. I'm putting it
> in a small light weight car. I'm looking for a simple
> and cheap regen solution. I'm thinking of putting a
> 10k alternator in line with my ADC drive motor and a
> set of contacts to engage the alternator when the
> pedal is released. could I just put PFC charger on the
> output of the alternator? would it control the output
> well enough with the variety of voltages/frequencies
> coming out of the alternator?
>
> Gadget
Sounds like something Roland has the most experience with.
Speaking of regen, has anyone on the list every implimented the scheme from the
pamphlet "Regenerative Braking with DC Series Motors" by G.L.Jackson? I've had
a copy for 7 years and just don't have the skills to impliment it. It was
intended for use with AdvDC motors, Curtis controllers, and a flooded pack, but
would even better suit SLA packs.
A contactor separates the field out between S2 and A2 and diodes with snubber
circuits are fed by a separate battery. His design used a 6V with its own
charger, but I wanted to use 2V or 4V Hawker(s) (since, even with this low of
voltage, they can supply high current) and use dc-dc to recharge them
constantly. When the button is pushed, he controlled regen via the accelerator
pedal, which means it became a *decellerator pedal*.
I can't guess at the efficiency compared to your
alternator-feeding-a-PFC-charger idea, and don't know if the equipment can
stand it. One drawback is the regen needs high enough rpms to charge, so you
either have to do a lot of shifting, or engage additional contactors to cut the
pack voltage in half.
Is this idea out-of-date, dangerous, or damaging (brushes, comm, or controller)?
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--- Begin Message ---
Nano-based batteries may have the potential for infinite shelf life and rapid
power-up
capability. In addition, batteries based on this technology may deliver a new
and unique
component for system design across many fields, including defense, industrial
and
consumer electronics.
http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=3122
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--- End Message ---
