EV Digest 4047
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Trimuter EV?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) FYI: 10% off Optimas. Orbitals, and Intimidators
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: regen...
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Terminal Type? Re: FYI: 10% off Optimas.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Wow - Congrats to getting the Ford Ranger story on the news!
by Jorg Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVLN(Clooney's Electric car is the star!)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: EVLN(Clooney's Electric car is the star!)
by "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Terminal Type? Re: FYI: 10% off Optimas.
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Mellow Yellow for sale?
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Specs on SW192 contactors
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Terminal Type? Re: FYI: 10% off Optimas.
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Terminal Type? Re: FYI: 10% off Optimas.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Ford Ranger EV Drivers Resist Repossession
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: people willing to buy EV's
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Trimuter EV?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: regen...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Don Cameron's New Beetle EV
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Specs on SW192 contactors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: people willing to buy EV's
by Dee Dreslough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Building, Finishing custom EV's ideas, Re: Trimuter EV?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Bowden's Hobby Circuits
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: EVLN(Clooney's Electric car is the star!)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) New 2005 German e-Max
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark and All,
--- Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm looking to build a ground up EV instead of doing
> another conversion. I like the looks of the doran
> but I really like this trimuter ev.
> http://www.rqriley.com/tm.htm Sure it'll take
> forever to build but my new job doesn't require a 5
> hour commute everyday so I gotta find something to
> do with my spare time. Are there any serious issues
> with this idea or these plans? Anyone done this or
> have any good advice?
While it's a cool design, it takes quite a while
to do right, almost all in the body finish. I'd bet
that while Riley has sold thousands of plans, over
40,000 of them, few are finished, probaly under 100.
However it, like all Riley's designs, could be
done in plywood/epoxy fairly easily and either painted
or finished clear. I'd do it clear then after 4-10 yrs
depending on where it was parked, paint it.
They all use conical projections for the curves,
basicly a bent flat panel which ply conforms to
easily. You just make the same size panel as the foam
though you need to take the thinner ply thickness into
account and make the corners sharper or make corner
laminated frames from thin wood strips and round them
off..
At the same time it would be a good bit stronger
as glass cloth over urethane foam while great for
parting air, it isn't very good for anything else.
If the body is done in wood/epoxy, it would take
about 1/3 the time to build and weight about 30 lbs
more.
It's handling as an EV should be fairly good
because of the batts reasonably low CG though not
great with 1 wheel in the front.
If considering a 3wh EV, join the
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]< list For good info on all
3wheelers, not just the Vortex.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
> I just want something fun and quick in contrast to
> my S-15 Pickup. I was originally thinking about
> getting the rodster kit at www.rodster.com but that
> is expensive for any improvement it might offer.
>
> Mark Hastings
>
> S-15 EV
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out the monthly special on the lower right part of the
page:
http://www.remybattery.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Ranger owners will get the trucks from Ford for 1 dollar. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I understand but this was how it was explained by an instructor from Hyster.
Mike G.
Lee Hart wrote:
M.G. wrote:
In my information it is regen the panel is an ev-100 and plug braking
was always there and regen was an option.
I dont think much energy went back to the battery but brush life
increased by three times.
I've never heard of regen *increasing* brush life. It usually decreases
brush life, because they now carry current more of the time, and the
motor timing has to be a compromise between motoring and generating
action.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
humm, is that a good deal?
Optima Yellow Top D31A/T for $159 less 10% discount? $143?
( Plus shipping I'm sure, Probably look for some locally first )
Anyway, which type should I get, when I go to get some?
The D31A has standard SAE Posts, and
the D31T has 3/8" Studs (cleaner?, more secure?, easier?)
But how will the terminal choice effect current capabilities?
Can you draw more through the Post or the Stud, or are
they both capable of dealing with Drag Strip currents?
L8r
Ryan
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Check out the monthly special on the lower right part of the
page:
http://www.remybattery.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hope more than just 2 "owners" take advantage of this good news!
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
The Ranger owners will get the trucks from Ford for 1 dollar. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was driving home today and the Ford Ranger turn-around story was
mentioned twice (once in brief, once in detail - and I was only
listening for about 20 minutes) on the local news-only station, KCBS!
Really brightened up my day!
Congratulations to all for a successful vigil! If only we had done
this for the EV-1, maybe one of those would still be in private hands.
(sigh)
Wonder if this will make it to the nightly news...
jorg
--
Tired of 200MB limits on your free e-mail?
Want to search your mail in seconds, not minutes?
Want to read your mail by conversation, not one at a time?
Want a gmail account?
I love mine! Just send me mail and I'll send you an invite!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That xenarc screen is great, use one in my insight, the
serial touch functions are even Linux X86 compatible! But...
You may find that you need another secondary (or primary) input.
I'de go for a touch pad, but they are tough to find anymore.
Luckilly I found some, unfortnuently you have to supply the PS/2 cable.
.oO( using a MS PS/2 cable, #1-white, #2-orange, #3-yellow, #4-blue )
.oO( #1-V+, #2-Ground, #3-Data, #4-Clock, At least I think so ? )
.oO(of the 16 possibilities, I found the right one on the 3rd try )
.oO(but then I wrote it down and soldered it wrong, had to do it again )
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G1283&variation=&aitem=6&mitem=14
I went with this for the PC:
http://www.ibuypower.com/product-pc/pocket-epc.htm
Gotta have gps:
http://www.deluo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DE&Product_Code=GPSU&Category_Code=GR
Eventually I'll get to use this setup for more than GPS and Music.
Like programing my motor controllers, or collecting E-Meter data!
L8r
Ryan
ps. also looking forward to more 'intimate' A/D hardware tricks!
Steve Marks wrote:
Lee,
o Gauge types (Motor Amps & Volts, Controller Amps & Volts, Battery
Amps & Volts - perhaps interfacing with Rudman Regs here, Tachometer,
etc with limits and warnings for values out of appropriate ranges) that
can be drawn.
o An appropriate graphical interface to access all this information as
well as controlling the Zilla controllers.
o A/D input hardware that can digitize all the relevant analog inputs.
...and whatever else seems relevant.
It seems like you might've given this area lots of thought and I'd love
to get your ideas on it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excellent info! Thanks Ryan!
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Lightning Ryan
That xenarc screen is great, use one in my insight, the
serial touch functions are even Linux X86 compatible! But...
You may find that you need another secondary (or primary) input.
I'de go for a touch pad, but they are tough to find anymore.
Luckilly I found some, unfortnuently you have to supply the PS/2 cable.
.oO( using a MS PS/2 cable, #1-white, #2-orange, #3-yellow, #4-blue )
.oO( #1-V+, #2-Ground, #3-Data, #4-Clock, At least I think so ? )
.oO(of the 16 possibilities, I found the right one on the 3rd try )
.oO(but then I wrote it down and soldered it wrong, had to do it again )
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G1283&variatio
n=&aitem=6&mitem=14
I went with this for the PC:
http://www.ibuypower.com/product-pc/pocket-epc.htm
Gotta have gps:
http://www.deluo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DE&Pro
duct_Code=GPSU&Category_Code=GR
Eventually I'll get to use this setup for more than GPS and Music.
Like programing my motor controllers, or collecting E-Meter data!
L8r
Ryan
The information contained in this email message is being transmitted to and is
intended for the use of only the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If the
reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby advised
that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately
delete.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you know anyone with a leased Ranger, nows the time to get in touch
with Ford.
On Jan 21, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Lightning Ryan wrote:
I hope more than just 2 "owners" take advantage of this good news!
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
The Ranger owners will get the trucks from Ford for 1 dollar.
Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>hmm, is that a good deal?
>Optima Yellow Top D31A/T for $159 less 10% discount? $143?
>(Plus shipping I'm sure, Probably look for some locally
>first)
You might be able to get free shipping by filling out this
form since Interstate seems to be a distributer for Optima
batteries:
http://www.ibsa.com/estore/business_new2.asp
http://www.ibsa.com/www_2001/content/products/product_optmain.asp
Check with your local Interstate distributer and see if they
will sell directly to you considering the amount of
batteries:
http://www.ibsa.com/estore/dealer_locator.asp
Post back here on what you find out. I'd be interested to
know since I'm going to have to buy 20 or 25 batteries at
some point in time.. I'm still looking for the best price.
Thanks
------
I've wondered why the battery companies aren't more
supportive of the EV hobby scene considering the amount of
batteries that need to be purchased. I've seen the Exide
Orbital ad in that LowRider magazine for example. "Official
Sponsor 2004 LowRider Evolution":
http://www.exideworld.com/products/automotive/exide_select_orbital_XCD.html
~OT
Is it just me or is there nothing holding these batteries
down?
http://img111.exs.cx/img111/9227/yt3hd.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you try to balance a garden rake vertically on your fingertip,
it's easier when the rake head is on top. That means a high center of
gravity is *more stable*.
Think about this for a second. A top heavy object is always less stable than
a bottom heavy object. In your example, it's easier to balance because with
a top heavy object the CofG has more lateral movement. This gives more
feedback, which makes it easier to balance; for the person doing the
balancing.
OTOH, you need to move the position of your
finger farther on each correction to maintain balance. Translated to a
motorcycle, this makes it feel kind of darty, and since you're leaned over
while this is going on, these motions tend to lift the wheel off the
pavement. Not a good solution in practice.
Here you seem to be saying that a high CofG is a bad thing?
The other thing to consider is that leaning into a turn or making
corrections in a turn requires you to roll (as in pitch/roll/yaw). It's a
rotation that wants to be centered on the cg and is made much easier with
a
low polar moment. Get your cg too low and the polar moment increases too
much because the rider didn't move. And the whole bike/rider combination
has to move in a big arc around the cg. It makes the bike feel ponderous
and sluggish, as if everything was pivoting around the contact patches.
With a bike at rest and off it's stands, try leaning it over; It rolled
around its contact patches. Whilst the mass 'wants' to roll around it's roll
CofG the forces to generate that roll come from the contact patches. When
riding those contact patches can be deflected sideways and the roll axis
will be closer to the roll CofG. The height of the roll axis is therefore
dependent on the rate of roll, but is close to the contact patches.
"My long-standing assertion that a high CG can result in wheels coming off
the ground during rapid direction changes has produced some quite agitated
dissent."
Indeed, and with good reason. I side with the dissenters.
Do you never watch bike racing? It's very common to see one or both wheels
come off the ground in a chicane. Twist And Go magazine took a Yamaha T-Max
superscooter (500cc twin 44bhp) to the race school at Rockingham
International Raceway. The T-Max proved itself more than a match for any of
the superbikes there around the tight infield race-school course.
Occasionally an R1 or CBR600 would get past on the longest straight, but the
superior braking performance would get it into turn one first and its
superior turning ability would stretch that advantage slightly through the
rest of the course.
For example, the author we're reviewing here boldly dared any employee of
a
motorcycle manufacturer to rebut what he had proposed. One did, and
rather
effectively. To which the author responded, "Which I feel it's
unnecessary
to reply to."
I have some issues with Royce's descriptions, but not his basic
understanding and Arnold Wagner's response has it's own problems. Motor
vehicle suspension is usually critically damped, if not stiffer, so
unloading the suspension wouldn't launch the vehicle.
Tony Foale's first book was mainly practical. In the intervening years Tony
has analysed the practical and formulated theories than fit.
My experience with recumbent bicycles is that there is no downside to a low
CofG and some of the racing 'bents' are VERY low.
I ride Moto Morinis on the street and their low CofG makes it possible to
embarass a lot of supposedly high performance machinery.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Bebbington
> For the past 5 years, I've dreamed of making it
> electric, with enough power to lay rubber,
> and enough range to get it into work in the summer
> ( so I can enjoy that big Webasto sunroof )
> There's a pile of used Optimas on the driveway,
> just begging to be (ab)used again...
>
If I saw a body like your Mini pickup , I'd Probable buy it , Small and
light is the way to go ,
>
> I'd rather sell the pickup as an EV, seems a
> shame to de-convert a fully functional EV.
Yes , once its together , it should stay that way . I'm not even much for up
grading if it takes a lot of work like a new adaptor plate and new battery
boxes , best do a new one and start trying to sell the other. Having an ad
somewhere also is a good way to introduce people to EV's .
Here's what I'm thinking about putting in my local paper
Wanted : somebody to participate in all electric car program , Must be able
to plug car in , not exceed 70 mph , drive less that 40 miles between
charges.These are full size cars not golf cars For
More Info call Steve Clunn at 772-971-0533
Now when people call , and why not call , I can have them come over and
drive one of my EV's around , get to know them , I can ask what they could
afford , .even if they don't get on the program they will have ridden and
seen a EV and will talk about it ,
> But I'd need to get enough for it to buy
> the remaining peices of my red Mini's EV puzzle -
> - a baby Zilla, and new batteries!
>
NO NO NO you need and should get a lot more , enough so you think , I
should be converting cars not xxxxx , . I know I've said this before but I
think we are right on the edge , things will start to pick up , at some
point , a person who can fix , build , and convert a car , should no WILL
make more than a plane auto mechanic , ( even if he can't spell) .
> So, is anyone in the UK interested in a working
> Mini pickup EV, with useable ( though tired )
> batteries?
>
Fishing not to good here , looks like a lot of fish , but with 3 lines in
the water ,no bits , . I'd try the local paper and ev album ( but keep bring
it up here also, like I just did) .
>
> I'd prefer the "EV sale" option, as it increases the
> world's EV count by one...
>
When there are so few everyone counts, Having one for sale , not matter what
price is a invite to let others see what we are doing .
> Richard Bebbington
> electric Mini pickup
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 2005-01-17 at 13:30 -0600, Mark Farver wrote:
> Does anyone know the amp rating on the Curtis/Albright SW-192 reversing
> set? A couple were given to me in a box of parts. They seem a bit
> small for EV duty, but I'd love to use them to do electric reverse on my
> Z1k 180VDC MR2. They might be ok given that average current on the MR2
> is pretty low (rarely more than 250 battery amps in normal driving) and
> they would never be switching under load.
Looks like they may be too small. The SW2xx series of contactors
commonly used for our EVs are rated 400 amps in continuous duty. The
SW1XX series are rated 200 amps continuous duty.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 01:19 -0600, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Check with your local Interstate distributer and see if they
> will sell directly to you considering the amount of
> batteries:
Call your local interstate battery store and ask who his regional
distributor is. The Regional stores (which usually still sell to the
public) will be able to give better deals by selling at the local
store's wholesale price for large purchases.
For my first EV project we bought 28 Optima YT's. The best price from
any local store was about $119/each. The regional Interstate
distributor made it down to $99/each. From the same distributor I paid
$155/each for group 31's while buying 16 about 1 yr ago.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Make sure, that the stud type will withstand a pull out force of at least
100 inch lbs and the top pad area is at least 3/4 inch in diameter.
I had both Exide and Trojan batteries with the stud type, that were spec for
95 to 105 inch lbs. I had studs pull out and the post mushroom. The torque
would keep reducing to below 75 inch lbs.
When ordering batteries, I specific that both post shall be a heavy duty
taper type, that both are the same size and are little larger than the
standard positive post. I also spec a 3/8 stainless bolt stud that has a
L-lug that is in bedded in the offset connector at the bottom of the post.
It is best to used a plated brass taper post connecter with stainless steel
bolt and a shoulder type nut. I also found that the standard plating would
some times would be strip or discolor with the acid fumes that may vent at
times. After installing these post connectors on your cables and before
installing heat shrinking, clean the terminals, remove the bolts, roll up a
paper towel and install tightly in the post connector hole.
I paint these battery connectors with epoxy paint, the type used for
appliances that is in standard spray cans. Some battery terminal companys
are doing this, but it's only on lead connectors.
After paint is dry, than install the heat shrink. I normally have to
install the 2 inch length of heat shrink onto the cable first, than shrink
it after it's painted.
Also, you could paint the base and/or offset links with the same epoxy
paint. Could paint the negative BLACK and positive RED.
Torque this battery connectors to a minimum of 110 inch lbs. You could
torque it at a higher value, but you should test the maximum torque value of
the connectors. You will destroy a connector to do this test.
First measure the diameter of the test post and height. Install the test
connector and torque the connector to 100 inch lbs. Increase the torque
value every 5 inch lbs and take a measurement of the battery post.
You will see the top of the battery post starting to rise. You should be
able to get to 12 ft lbs or 144 inch lbs or sometimes get to 15 ft lbs or
180 inch lbs with a larger heavy duty connector.
For addition holding power, I also install a stainless steel washer, lock
washer and nut on the top stud, to prevent the lead from shrinking inside
the post terminal.
Now that you have done all that, it is time to test out the torque value
during load running test.
Run the EV under load for 1 mile and check the torque of the connectors. It
will be normal to loss about 5 inch lbs and sometimes up to 25 inches lbs on
this first run.
The cleaning of the battery terminals, leave a lot of non-contact areas.
You then torque the terminals and than run 2 miles and check again, and
retorque as required.
Then double the miles each time to do this test. When you reach about 16
miles, these battery terminals should be set. I than check the torque value
after driving 100 miles or 30 days. I had found some have shrink back to 75
inch lbs.
It seems like they making the lead connectors too soft these days. Not
enough antimony in the lead. Back in the seventy's this lead was very hard
and would have a different sound when hit.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lightning Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 9:18 PM
Subject: Terminal Type? Re: FYI: 10% off Optimas.
> humm, is that a good deal?
> Optima Yellow Top D31A/T for $159 less 10% discount? $143?
> ( Plus shipping I'm sure, Probably look for some locally first )
>
> Anyway, which type should I get, when I go to get some?
> The D31A has standard SAE Posts, and
> the D31T has 3/8" Studs (cleaner?, more secure?, easier?)
> But how will the terminal choice effect current capabilities?
>
> Can you draw more through the Post or the Stud, or are
> they both capable of dealing with Drag Strip currents?
>
> L8r
> Ryan
>
> Ryan Stotts wrote:
> > Check out the monthly special on the lower right part of the
> > page:
> >
> > http://www.remybattery.com/
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marc Geller wrote:
If you know anyone with a leased Ranger, nows the time to get in touch with
Ford.
On Jan 21, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Lightning Ryan wrote:
> I hope more than just 2 "owners" take advantage of this good news!
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>> The Ranger owners will get the trucks from Ford for 1 dollar. >>
Lawrence Rhodes.......
>
If Ford is willing to sell ANY others than just these two I would be very
surprized.
They are doing the absolute minimum to end the sit-in and the media
attention it has generated, that means selling to the folks involved only.
Now Ford will be hoping the story just quietly fades away.
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ivo Jara G. wrote:
>> Ah Hell, let's do it! ... Let's get a domain, and start gathering
>> info to post, such as plans, drawings, calculations etc.
keith vansickle wrote:
> THIS IS A GOOD IDEA
> The organization of it may be a problem though. There are so many
> ideas and perspectives that go into building an EV that collecting
> the data seems to take forever.
I agree; it's a great idea. It will take a lot of work, though.
The BIG problem is that as we all sit here at our computers reading and
looking at the pretty pictures, we aren't really *doing* anything!
Gathering information and learning is great. But we need some sort of
"magic spark" to leap out of the screen and zap the reader into turning
off the computer and going out into the garage to actually BUILD
something!
I think part of the problem is that most websites (and TV programs for
that matter) simply document what someone else did. "This is what I
did..." We watch it passively. No input or response or action is
expected from the viewer -- so none is given.
"How To..." books are a lot more likely to be structured to encourage
you to actually *do* something. Step-by-step instructions, with
illustrations, lots of reference data and charts, and none of the
chattiness or storytelling. "This is what YOU do..."
Websites or videos could (and occasionally are) structured like this;
but it's pretty rare. I think websites offer some *real* opportunities
to do "how to" instructions very well. Pictures don't need to be static
like a book; they can include video snips ("move it like this..."). The
reference data can have links (here is a battery chart; click on one for
more data on it).
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus wrote:
> While it's a cool design, it takes quite a while
> to do right, almost all in the body finish.
I agree. I did some a fiberglass-foam body panels, and found that there
are two ways it works. A) Make it fast, easy, and ugly, or B) Make it
beautiful, but spend forever doing it.
So, I think it is a great technique for interior panels, structural
parts, or external parts where you don't care how it looks or it will be
covered up.
But if you are expecting the kind of super-smooth glossy finish found on
most cars, forget it!
> However it could be done in plywood/epoxy fairly easily and
> either painted or finished clear.
I think this is a great idea, and would try it the next time. Wood is
strong, light, easy to work with, and its natural variations and
irregularities are considered "beautiful" rather than hideous or
deformed.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
M.G. wrote:
> I understand but this was how it was explained by an instructor
> from Hyster.
I'll bet Roger Stockton had the answer. He was comparing plug braking to
true regenerative braking, and saying regen has 3 times the brush life
of plug braking. I still doubt that the difference is 3:1, but I can
understand the life being longer.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Jerry McIntire wrote:
> Don's project looks to be a stellar performer....If it's just gonna be a
> two-seater, why
>
> not an MR2, a Miata, a Del Sol... an RX8?
Mild correction...the RX8 is a four seater.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Farver wrote:
> Does anyone know the amp rating on the Curtis/Albright SW-192
> reversing set? ... I'd love to use them to do electric reverse
> on my Z1k 180VDC MR2.
The SW-192 is only rated 96vdc, 150a continuous, 500a for 1 minute. You
can easily exceed this with a Zilla, and would destroy it if you tried
to break 180vdc with it. You might be able to use it if you turned the
Zilla current way down, and had another contactor for emergency
disconnects.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
The BIG problem is that as we all sit here at our computers reading and
looking at the pretty pictures, we aren't really *doing* anything!
Gathering information and learning is great.
Too true!!! I agree wholeheartedly. I'm struggling with my own
laziness. Then again, it's 10 degrees outside, and my garage isn't
heated, so that's also playing a role here...ah, Connecticut.
But we need some sort of
"magic spark" to leap out of the screen and zap the reader into turning
off the computer and going out into the garage to actually BUILD
something!
Free beer(coffee,soda) and pizza? It has been my experience that when
you get people together to work on something, they get stuff done
*before* the meeting to impress the other folks coming to the meet. A
social excuse is a great focusing point to get people into their
garages. And, one of the best way to get people together, I've found,
is free beer and pizza. :) Single women help get the guys there, but
I'm fresh out of unmarried sisters and friends. The perils of growing
old and respectable, I guess. :)
I'll buy the pizza, but I don't drink beer, so I'll also buy the coffee,
and for those of us with kids, I'll also provide babysitting. :)
-Dee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee and All,
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> jerry dycus wrote:
> > While it's a cool design, it takes quite a while
> > to do right, almost all in the body finish.
>
> I agree. I did some fiberglass-foam body panels,
> and found that there
> are two ways it works. A) Make it fast, easy, and
> ugly, or B) Make it
> beautiful, but spend forever doing it.
Never have there been more true words! Most have no
idea just how hard it is to make a good looking panel
this way as the eye can see a 1/10,000" variation!!!
If one was to go this route, get it really close,
then find a good auto body person to do the final bit
in prep for painting. They can do in a couple hrs what
it will take you weeks or even yrs!!! It's diffinently
worth it. I even do it that way and I've done many!!!
A good way to do this in glass is to make glass
panels on a 1/8" gloss formica covered 1/2" ply for a
mold.
Spray on gelcoat or feather fill fairing compound
for what will be the outside and then lay up the
glass. Then cut to shape of the panel needed, glass
the inside corners and you just need to finish the
outside corner, saving much work with either the
gelcoat finish or to paint the fine sanded
featherfill.
>
> So, I think it is a great technique for interior
> panels, structural
> parts, or external parts where you don't care how it
> looks or it will be
> covered up.
Naugahyde, vinyl, carpet, ect, other coverings do
wonders to get that EV finished and looking good on
interiors in much less time, labor if using glass.
>
> But if you are expecting the kind of super-smooth
> glossy finish found on
> most cars, forget it!
>
> > However it could be done in plywood/epoxy fairly
> easily and
> > either painted or finished clear.
>
> I think this is a great idea, and would try it the
> next time. Wood is
> strong, light, easy to work with, and its natural
> variations and
> irregularities are considered "beautiful" rather
> than hideous or
> deformed.
Depending on which ply, finish type you start with,
it can be easy or hard.
The E-woody was done in BC yellow pine but finished
clear, it looked great!! But if you are going to paint
it, it would look terrible. And when it dries
completely, it will crack. So keep it out of the sun
whenever not being used.
A finer grain ply like Ash, birch, ect looks great
clear and when painted still looks great. And it would
only take an undercoat and 2 layers of paint with good
drying, fine sanding inbetween to have a first rate
finish and unlikely to crack.
Make sure it's waterproof glue, don't take the
salesperon's word for it. Take a piece of it and boil,
dry it twice before using it!!! Aircraft rated ply is
cool.
While some finer plys are costly, just how much do
you need? Not much, my e-woody, the size of a compact
car only uses 5 sheets.
And ply when bent, takes perfect curves thus self
fairing, saving many hrs there giving great looking
curves, with little work. And a lot stiffer, stronger
when bent!! That's why you never see flat panels on
cars as it would take 3x the thickness to keep them
from flexing.
For really tight curves there are special plys
like hoop, ect that can be bent in a 10" circle!! You
can get them from aircraft building supply stores like
Aircraft Spruce, ect.
Many aircraft are still built from wood as it's
hard to beat in strenght to weight ratio's so
important in them.
As 95% of cars use conical projections in their
surfaces to save time building them, you can adapt
these technics to most any body type.
Also there are many car parts like whole 1 piece
front ends for race cars done in glass that can be
used to save time.
And last, almost any car you can wax real well and
take a cheap mold off of or the whole car, truck to
get a easy body that looks good and light.
An EV that takes much less time to do is much more
likely to get done and be enjoyed!!!
A lightweight, built as an EV will get much better
speed, range for the same EV parts, batt pack really
makes it worth it.
Once you do it once, it's much easier to do the
second time so maybe start an EV business!!
Think of how well a good, aero ply body on a S-10
or old 70/80's small pickup frame would be! 150 mile
range, 80 mph on lead batts!!
Just a few idea to get you thinking on these cold
nights, Spring is coming ;-))
HTH's,
jerry dycus
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of
> thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only
> thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Battery charger, LED's, DC/DC converters etc..... Lots of nice circuits
that could be used in Electric Vehicles.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/homepage.htm#menu
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Marks wrote:
> The central computer idea is also what I have planned for the
> Ghiamonster though I'll probably run with Win3k for the OS.
This is possible; however, don't underestimate how horrible the
automotive environment is. EVs are particularly bad, due to the very
high electrical noise levels. Most consumer-grade electronics are just
not reliable in such an environment.
Also, with the speed and computing power come high power consumption and
heat problems. Things to watch out for!
> using one of these systems with a touch sensitive screen like
> http://www.xenarc.com/product/700ts.html to display all the
> gauges and diagnostic information relevant to an EV as well
> as providing an interface to the controllers and whatever else.
This could be fun. Remember, though that you'll need a display that is
visible in direct sunlight, but not overpoweringly bright at night. This
is surprisingly hard to do. Vacuum fluorescents or LCDs with powerful
backlights are generally used.
> I'd be very interested in any information you could give me on the
> following:
>
> o Gauge types (Motor Amps & Volts, Controller Amps & Volts,
> Battery Amps & Volts - perhaps interfacing with Rudman Regs
> here, Tachometer, etc. with limits and warnings for values
> out of appropriate ranges) that can be drawn.
You aren't asking for much, are you! :-) Seriously, that's a major
research project. You should probably start reading the EV list
archives, as much of the information is in there. Also, it would be
easier to answer specific questions instead of a "tell me everything you
know..." type question.
> o An appropriate graphical interface to access all this information
> as well as controlling the Zilla controllers.
"Appropriate"... now, that could mean a lot of things! People spend
whole careers designing human interfaces.
Notice that despite all the style-over-substance design of car
dashboards, the basic controls all look the same. The speedometer is a
pointer moving around a dial (about 270 deg. sweep) and the gas gauge is
a pointer moving on a dial (about 90 deg. sweep). You see digital
speedometers and gas gauges, but they are generally harder to use.
The engineers like lots of meters; but frankly, rarely do anything with
all that data and precision. The real challenge is to "boil down" all
that data into a few easily-read indicators. This doesn't take a
Windows2k screenful of data. In fact, too much data will just distract
you from driving.
Here is what I think you need for EV instrumentation:
1. A "fuel gauge". It tells you about how much *useful* charge is left
in your batteries. Note that *useful* battery capacity depends on
a lot of things; the speed you are driving at, the temperature and
age of the batteries, etc.
Some of the auto-company EVs implemented this as a "miles to go"
at the present speed indicator. This gave the driver immediate
feedback. If it's 40 miles to home and the gauge says "30 to go",
you know you're in trouble. But slow down, and the gauge immediately
increases to "40" or even "50" miles, showing you can make it if
you drive more conservatively.
2. A "battery warning" idiot light. It warns you that something is
wrong *before* you murder the batteries. There can then be
diagnostics to provide additional data as to what the problem is.
In the Toyota Prius for example, they light up a "turtle" to tell
you that the electric drive is unavailable due to some temporary
problem; it's too deeply discharged, or too hot or cold, etc.
In an EV, this "warning" would light if you are trying to drive
too fast or at too high a discharge rate for the battery's present
condition. It may be too deeply discharged, or too cold, or too
hot, or needs water, or some other temporary condition. Back off
on the throttle or let the batteries rest before you wreck them.
3. A set of "fault" lights. Things like motor overheat, ground faults,
or failures in the EV system that make it *dangerous* to continue.
In some cases, there will be "limp home" capability. In others,
you will need to disable the car to prevent the driver from hurting
it or endangering himself.
Most people who drive cars have developed some degree of common
sense with ICEs. They no longer try to start engines that are
already running, or drive around in 1st gear all the time, or
ignore "hot" or "oil" idiot lights. (Some do of course; and they
destroy their cars as a consequence). But with EVs, you have to
assume that *NO* driver has any common sense! Even experienced EV
drivers (who should know better) will say, "Yes, I see that the
battery voltmeter says the pack is dead. But, it's only a little
farther home..." And they turn $1000 worth of batteries into $100
worth of scrap to avoid walking 1 mile.
> o A/D input hardware that can digitize all the relevant analog inputs.
A/D input hardware is cheap and common, but almost none of it is
isolated. The traction pack in an EV is operating at very high power,
and is very noisy. Most PC-grade A/D boards won't work.
I chose to use a commercial multimeter with an optically-isolated RS-232
serial port (about $50-100). It provides the isolation, is UL listed (so
someone actually confirmed that it works safely), and already has the
noise immunity and filtering to work in an EV environment.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.texaserider.com/escooters_emax.php This thing uses Silicon
Batteries with double the range of lead. Anybody know of this technology?
Thanks
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
