EV Digest 4067
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: pusher trailer info
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Prius Batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electromatic motor
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Reduction gear for electric motor in direct drive setup without
differential
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(Davis pih objective: "get the car companies to build these things")
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EVLN(Virginia hybrids clog hov lanes in Wash D.C. suburbs)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: pusher trailer info
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: pusher trailer info
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: pusher trailer info
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: serial terminal - zilla
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: pusher trailer info
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Ampabout ... smaller, lighter, meaner and greener
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Semicad nicad
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: pusher trailer info
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Zinc batteries that get consumed
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: pusher trailer info
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: pusher trailer info
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) data acquisition kit info
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Electromatic motor
by "Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Semicad nicad
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: pusher trailer info
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: data acquisition kit info
by "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
To give you some ideal of what it takes to drive a certain weight at a
certain speed at a generator KW input. My car was tested with this set up
back in 1977 at Detroit, Michingon.
The car call TRANSFORMER I weighs 7850 lbs. Plug in a engine-generator
which consist of a 3 phase 37.5 KW alternator which can deliver 180 volts at
300 amps to a 165 volt GE motor that ran at 92 mph.
This increase the range from 80 miles to 500 miles on 20 gallons of gas.
With a control console in the car, we can start up the generator unit,
running the power directly to the controller and/or charge the battery while
running the power to the controller at a lower ampere. Remember, you cannot
charge the battery and used it at the same time.
This takes a multiple of double pole selector type of contactors to do this.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lockwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:35 AM
Subject: pusher trailer info
> application... add a pusher trailer to a small ev pickup weight of approx.
> 2700 lbs, need to add another 60 miles to distance
> traveled...using a wisconsin air cooled 65 h.p. engine, belt or chain
> drive
> for highway use.
> any ideas or problems seen?
> thanks
> jim
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Frank,
Yes, they are available via the used car parts companies many of which are on
the web. I used one to get a quote of $600 for the batteries from a gen 1
Prius. I searched for "electric motor" then sent an email out for scrap heap
parts companies to bid on. Got a response in 24 hours with the name of the yard
and price. I didn't look to hard to see if I could beat it elsewhere.
The source for these parts are wrecked (HEV) cars and there are plenty. In
fact there is a 2004 model at a junk yard near my house that will be auctioned
off in the next couple of weeks.
Mike Bachand
www.DEVC.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What applictations are those two motors currently used for
in the industry(non ev)?
Someone on this list has used one or both of them. What is
the story on those motors vs's an 8" or 9" motor?
Is saying an 8" or 9" are "small blocks" and the 11" and 13"
are "big blocks" accurate?
Anyone have any hp/tq numbers on the two bigger motors? How
much voltage can they take?
Do the 8" and 9" motors redline at like 5,000rpm? What do
the two bigger motors redline at?
Are DC motors currently as advanced as they are ever going
to get? Are these four motor choices the only foreseeable
choices as far as DC motors go?
Why are there like 15 different AC motor choices? What are
those motor/controller/gearboxes currently used for in the
industry(non ev)? Is it possible to get an AC car in the
"100 mph club"?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The concept is flawed. If it was applied to a
frictionless vehicle in a vacuum it would still have
the losses acquired in transforming batt electricity
to motor energy so it is an impossibility even in
those "ideal" circumstances. For sure when CD and
rolling resistance are added to motor losses it would
never work. I think this is a joke.
--- NMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How do you think about the electromatic motor
> (presented at www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com).
> It is a hoax or it could work? Seems to be an very
> simple and efficient EV. I couldn't find additional
> information on the Internet about that matter.
>
> Sorin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I was curious if somebody had found a single gear reduction gearbox
for e.g., the 8" ADC motors such that one motor could be used to drive
one wheel via a half-shaft in a 2 motor vehicle setup with an "electronic"
differential. All the motor-gear combinations I found are the AC
motors with a built-in differential from solectria on the Electro
Automotivewebsite and the MES motors from metricmind. But both already
have differentials and the price&size would prohibit a 2 motor setup.
The Tango must use something like what I am looking for.. are the
gear boxes they use purpose built? Are they available from somewhere
directly? I called Commutercars but the friendly lady I talked to
didn't know such technical details and I was unable to locate the
information on their webpage.
Ideally I'd like to have a reduction that would provide enough torque
at low speeds to move a mid-sized car swiftly in in-city traffic but does
not damage the motors if the car is propelled to highway speeds (max. 80mph)
via another propulsion mechanism (hybrid). If something was out there that
would just bolt on to the front of an ADC motor that'd be perfect.
I would like to use all electric for in-town operation up to at least 40mph,
ideally 65mph for short distances on normal streets (in Germany) and
rely on ICE power if I have to go longer distance or higher speed
(I hardly ever go above 80mph on the Autobahn, so that would be a
suitable top RPM for the electric motor)
Is the efficiency loss of two motors and two gear boxed much greater
than that of a single motor and a differential? Is the reduction a
standard rear differential provides enough to propel a mid-sized
or small mini-van with a single 8 or 9" motor up to in-town speeds?
(I think thats what J. Wayland uses for white zombie, but I would
not have the same torque due to single motor, smaller controller)
Markus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Even better, an AC EV has gone 315 mph on the Salt Flats.
It is hard (impossible?) to find a high power AC system for cheap.
Metricmind ~100kw ~$5k http://www.metricmind.com
EMS ~150kw ~$12k http://www.fluxvector.com
ACPropulsion ~150kw ~$25k* http://www.acpropulsion.com
*price includes built in charger.
DC:
Zilla + DC motor up to ~300kw ~$7k to $9k
http://www.cafeelectric.com
The only thing that comes close to DC for sheer power and cost would
be two Metric Mind systems, like the electric imp is doing
(http://www.proev.com/). I actually considered doing that but the
size and weight of a 2nd system would be tough to cram into a little
car.
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Why are there like 15 different AC motor choices? What are
> those motor/controller/gearboxes currently used for in the
> industry(non ev)? Is it possible to get an AC car in the
> "100 mph club"?
> ...
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Davis pih objective: "get the car companies to build these
things")
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.californiaaggie.com/article/?id=7245 UCD engineering
students display hybrid SUVs Team to compete in national
sustainable mobility competition By JESSICA SPRINGGAY / Aggie
Staff Writer Posted 01/31/2005 Sarah Voosen/Aggie
Andrew A. Frank, professor of mechanical and aeronautical
engineering and co-director of UC Davis' Challenge X team,
gestures towards one of three hybrid vehicles on display at the
Bainer Hall workshop on Friday.
Members of the media got the chance on Friday to view and ride in
several hybrid vehicles built by the UC Davis engineering student
Challenge X team.
As part of a three-year competition sponsored by General Motors
and the U.S. Department of Energy, the "Team Fate" Challenge X
team must convert a stock automobile into a fuel-efficient hybrid
electric vehicle.
UCD is one of 17 North American student teams that will
re-engineer a GM crossover sport-utility vehicle to minimize
energy consumption, emissions, and greenhouse gases while
maintaining or exceeding the vehicle's utility and performance.
"At UCD, we set our own design goals a little higher than the
competition goals," said Team Fate co-team leader Rob Kaminsky.
These furthered goals include a fuel economy of 35 miles per
gallon, an all-electric range, and the ability to go from 0 to 60
miles per hour in eight seconds.
During the first year of the competition, the team generates a
computer model of the vehicle design. Years two and three consist
of implementing the team's designs and delivering a "showroom"
vehicle. The team is judged at the end of each year on their
execution, progress toward meeting the Challenge X goals, and
ability to predict their performance using math-based tools.
June will mark the first year of the competition. The teams that
demonstrate a mastery of the key aspects of modeling their power
train -- an assembly of gears and associated parts that converts
energy and turns the car's wheels, as well as construction and
control of the power train, will receive a donated Chevrolet
Equinox.
In addition to the donated Equinox, each team will also receive
$10,000 for a base budget, up to $25,000 in additional production
parts from GM, and software and hardware donations from other
sponsors.
On display were three previously converted hybrid vehicles -- a
1994 Mercury Sable, which gets 50 miles per gallon; a 2000 Chevy
Suburban, which gets 25 to 30 miles to the gallon and won overall
in the 2001 FutureTruck competition; and a 2002 Ford Explorer,
which gets 25 to 30 miles to the gallon, goes from 0 to 60 in
seven seconds, and placed second in 2002 and third in 2003 in the
FutureTruck competitions.
The interior of the Mercury Sable is exactly the same as the
stock vehicle, except for a red "stop" button -- an emergency
disconnect knob. The car is absolutely silent; listeners cannot
tell that a motor is even running.
"The natural noise is no sound," said Andy Frank, professor of
Mechanical and Aeronautical Engineering. "When you get on the
road, the only thing you hear is tires."
Dean of Engineering Enrique Laverdia said the average Californian
drives 40 miles each day. The hybrid vehicles built by the team
can be charged directly from a grid, and travel 50 miles without
a subsequent charge.
Kaminsky added that the team is working on a trifuel hybrid, one
that uses hydrogen, electricity, and ethanol.
Beth Solik, a junior Mechanical Engineering student, said she
joined the team because she wanted to get involved in hybrid
energy, and no undergraduate classes are offered on hybrid
vehicles.
"They're working with some really neat technologies," said Junior
Matt Verbrugge, a Chemical Engineering major and new Team Fate
member.
Also on display was Test Bed Bus-1, one of only five liquid fuel
fuel-cell buses. UCD inherited it from the University of Florida
in 2003.
According to Paul Erickson, assistant professor in the Mechanical
and Aeronautical engineering department, it is the world's oldest
operating liquid fuel fuel-cell vehicle. UCD now uses it as a
research vehicle.
Frank said one of the team's objectives is to "get the car
companies to build these things" because of their fuel
efficiency.
He added that the fuel emissions for the hybrid vehicles are
reduced to 10 percent of that of conventional cars.
"We could greatly reduce our imported gasoline if car companies
would make these cars," he said.
And consumers needn't worry about price. Co-team leader Aaron
Singer said the converted Explorer would sell at only $3,000 more
than Ford's V-8 model, and in addition to better fuel efficiency,
would have the added advantage of more power.
JESSICA SPRINGGAY can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
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EVLN(Virginia hybrids clog hov lanes in Wash D.C. suburbs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/10772488.htm?1c
Posted on Sun, Jan. 30, 2005 HYBRID PERK UNDER FIRE
By Gary Richards KNIGHT RIDDER
Solo drivers in certain hybrid cars may soon enjoy a great
commuting perk on California freeways: using a car pool lane to
zip to work.
But is it a good idea?
There is growing angst over the hybrid-car pool issue, after a
recent study in Virginia where hybrids have clogged the car pool
lanes in the suburbs around Washington, D.C., to the point of
rendering them useless.
Bay Area transportation planners fear a hybrid exemption will
kill a parallel attempt to charge solo drivers to use car pool
lanes.
And some environmentalists loathe the idea, saying the point of
diamond lanes is to keep cars off the roads, not encourage them.
By a 6-1 ratio in an informal survey, San Jose Mercury News
readers, including many hybrid owners, say solo drivers of
hybrids such as the Toyota Prius or Honda Insight should be kept
out of car pool lanes.
"Owning a hybrid is its own reward," said Ed Simon, a 57-year-old
software programmer from San Jose who owns a 2001 Prius and a
2004 Prius. "I doubt there are many who would make this
investment solely to shave a few minutes off their commute, and
if they did, Virginia's experiment demonstrates the failure of
this approach."
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a bill into law last year that
would allow hybrids getting 45 miles per gallon or better to use
the state's car pool lanes, regardless of how many people are
riding. But California law needs approval from Washington because
car pool lanes are funded by the federal portion of the gas tax.
That approval may be tucked into a transportation spending plan
going before Congress this year. Also, Rep. Brad Sherman,
D-Sherman Oaks, may introduce a bill this week allowing states to
set their own rules for hybrids in car pool lanes.
If approved, some hybrid drivers could be cruising in the diamond
lane by this time next year.
But the Virginia experiment has caught the worried eye of traffic
managers. So many hybrids are using the car pool lane on
Interstate 95 that speeds have fallen into the creep-and-crawl
category, angering car poolers and leading some to call for an
end to the hybrid experiment next year.
Virginia opened its car pool lanes to hybrids five years ago, and
the number of cars with clean-air plates jumped from 32 statewide
in 2000 to 6,800 last year.
In California, where there is a six-month waiting list to buy
hybrids, the law would limit the number eligible to drive in a
car pool lane to 75,000 statewide. And it would give Caltrans the
right to ban solo drivers in hybrids from any car pool lane if
the hybrids noticeably slowed traffic.
Currently, only the Prius, Insight and Honda Civic meet
California's 45-mpg requirement.
For transportation leaders, the issue is more economic. Momentum
is growing to allow solo drivers of any car to pay a fee to drive
in car pool lanes. Those fees would help cash-strapped transit
projects.
Dubbed HOT lanes for High Occupancy Toll, they will be tried on
Interstate 680 between Fremont and Milpitas in a few years, while
the Valley Transportation Authority is considering HOT lanes on
Highways 85, 87 and 101.
If hybrid drivers gain access to diamond lanes, it would
"absolutely" kill HOT lanes, said Randy Rentschler of the
Metropolitan Transportation Commission in Oakland.
Auto manufacturers also have emerged as an opponent. They are
threatening to block hybrid legislation in Congress because none
of the 10 new hybrids that will soon be unleashed on the market
meet California's 45-mpg requirement. The hybrid Ford Escape, a
sport-utility vehicle that came out late last year, is expected
to be a big seller, but it gets only 36 mpg.
Another caveat in the California law, the discretion to close car
pool lanes to hybrids on certain highways, also is drawing fire.
"The idea of 'oh, we'll just say no on certain freeways' is just
begging for driver confusion, and is sure to be a disaster," said
John Beck of San Jose.
-
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roland Wiench [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 07:43 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: pusher trailer info
>
. . . snip . .
> Remember, you cannot charge the battery and used it at the same time.
>
> This takes a multiple of double pole selector type of contactors to do this.
>
Why? Can someone give a detailed explaination of this statement?
Are you assuming a completely unregulated generator?
It seems to me that if the generator output was regulated to at or just above
the battery's resting voltage, the current would come entirely from the
generator until it's voltage sagged, with some current going into the battery.
This would give the appearance of a very stiff pack, up to the current limit of
the generator.
How is this different from the heavily discussed Lion/Pb-acid hybrid packs?
Mike Shipway
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Remember, you cannot charge the battery and used it at the same time.
>>
>> This takes a multiple of double pole selector type of contactors to do
>> this.
>>
>
> Why? Can someone give a detailed explaination of this statement?
How about a simple explanation? You can't have energy flowing into the
battery at the same time it's flowing out of the battery. Ok, maybe it's
possible for some electrons to flow into the battery while others are
flowing out...I am of course talking about at the same pole.
Naturally electrons flow in one side of the batter and out the other
whenever there is a current running through the battery, which side they
go in and which side they come out depends on whether it's charging or
discharging.
Anyway it's a moot point because it's certainly possible to hook up the
charger/generator to the battery while they are both connected to the
motor/controller.
Just like you point out, if the motor/controller require less power then
the charger/generator is putting out, the surplus power will flow into the
battery. If the motor/contr requires more power then charger/gen is
putting out, the the extra power will flow out of the battery...as long as
there is energy left in the battery.
P.S. Hello everyone.
>
> Are you assuming a completely unregulated generator?
>
> It seems to me that if the generator output was regulated to at or just
> above the battery's resting voltage, the current would come entirely from
> the generator until it's voltage sagged, with some current going into the
> battery.
>
> This would give the appearance of a very stiff pack, up to the current
> limit of the generator.
>
> How is this different from the heavily discussed Lion/Pb-acid hybrid
> packs?
>
> Mike Shipway
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When charging a battery, lets say of a lead acid battery, the current flows
from the NEG plate which is PB with some SO4 (sulfate) that is inter
changing with the electrolyte (H20+SO4) to the POS plate which is PB+O2.
When discharging a battery, the currents then flows from the POS to the NEG
reversing the action and SULFATING the NEG plates.
Therefore you cannot make electricity go both ways at the same time. Even if
you do high speed switching or pulsing, you still have one cycle that is off
and one cycle that is on.
Even a 12 volt system with a 12 volt charging system does this on a ICE.
When you turn the key to the ON or IGN POSITION, you are providing 12 volt
battery power to the R-Terminal on a Alternator, Ignition system and any
other 12 volt load that may be on.
Now, when you turn to the START POSITION, the 12 volt battery power is shut
off to the R-Terminal of the alternator, so it does not operated while the
battery is RUNNING A MOTOR to START the engine (which we call a starter)
causing the battery to DISCHARGE FROM THE POS TO THE NEG PLATE.
After the engine starts and comes up to speed, you now switch back to the
IGNITION POSITION, turn on the R-Terminal (or Regulator), the alternator now
excites and provides 12 volt power to all loads and CHARGES THE BATTERY FROM
NEG TO POS. The battery is not being used while it is charging or a
alternator is connected to it.
A motor generator unit, can run a EV motor and charge the battery at the
same time. The battery does not provide any current while it is charging.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: pusher trailer info
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roland Wiench [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 07:43 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: pusher trailer info
> >
> . . . snip . .
> > Remember, you cannot charge the battery and used it at the same time.
> >
> > This takes a multiple of double pole selector type of contactors to do
> > this.
> >
>
> Why? Can someone give a detailed explaination of this statement?
>
> Are you assuming a completely unregulated generator?
>
> It seems to me that if the generator output was regulated to at or just
> above the battery's resting voltage, the current would come entirely from
> the generator until it's voltage sagged, with some current going into the
> battery.
>
> This would give the appearance of a very stiff pack, up to the current
> limit of the generator.
>
> How is this different from the heavily discussed Lion/Pb-acid hybrid
> packs?
>
> Mike Shipway
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stay a way from my To Ba Fir!!!
I was ...errr exploring the fine points of Ot's programming menus on GP.
Wellllll...... Yes his 1k/2K toggle DID work....
they are NOT sacred...!! they published....
Their are some things he just won't let me adjust....A Pic programmer...
would get me in real trouble....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: serial terminal - zilla
> Madman wrote:
> >NOPE!!
> > you set the the hair ball for 1000 amps, and then flip the 1k/2K bit
> and
> >you get 2000 amp on the 2K... Ummm this I know about .....
> >Setting the 1k to 2k specs won't work, it rejects your inputs.
> >But ware of jumping to a 2k when the Hairball was setup for a 1k.
>
> WHAT where you doing playing with Otmar's sacred bits?
>
> Nevermind...
>
> WHAT where you doing with 'Zilla 1k parts -- you know you can handle that
> little power!
>
> Hand over your 2x4...
>
> ;-)
>
> Neon
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
snip
it's certainly
> possible to hook up the
> charger/generator to the battery while they are both
> connected to the
> motor/controller.
>
> Just like you point out, if the motor/controller
> require less power then
> the charger/generator is putting out, the surplus
> power will flow into the
> battery. If the motor/contr requires more power
> then charger/gen is
> putting out, the the extra power will flow out of
> the battery...as long as
> there is energy left in the battery.
>
> P.S. Hello everyone. Hello Pete welcome back.
missed your input.
>
> >
> > Are you assuming a completely unregulated
> generator?
I think I am. I am working on an all electric bicycle
where the alternator will put out a rectified but
variable amount depending on how hard I pedal and what
load I establish to go to either the controller or
battery. when moving my little contribution goes to
the controller but I will never be producing enough to
move the bike at its design speed so what I fail to
generate will come from the battery . However when
the bike is stopped I will continue to pedal and add a
little to the batteries and when I am going down hill
I can continue to pedal and add some regen to build
the batts back up. It may not be as effecient as the
standard chains and gears but I just want to do it to
see for myself.
> >
> > It seems to me that if the generator output was
> regulated to at or just
> > above the battery's resting voltage, the current
> would come entirely from
> > the generator until it's voltage sagged, with some
> current going into the
> > battery.
> >
> > This would give the appearance of a very stiff
> pack, up to the current
> > limit of the generator.
> >
> > How is this different from the heavily discussed
> Lion/Pb-acid hybrid
> > packs?
> >
> > Mike Shipway
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
A week back was pack changing time. My new PFC-30 charger also
came just in time.
I had planned to pull the old US145 pack (22 batteries), and put
in a new pack of US125s.
The cost savings between the purchase of US145s to US125's was a
good deal. The weight reduction was only about the weight of a
battery, and the amphour capacity loss (145 minutes @ 75amps,
down to 125 minutes @ 75 amps) was a range loss of about 10
miles). So I now have a 40 to 45 mile range.
Saturday, an EAA member picked up the homemade battery lift from
another member and bring it over to my place. It was made by a
former Electrovan owner who was getting up in years (in his 70's)
and lifting was an issue. So he got a medical people lift with a
hydraulic hand pump on it.
The design was quite simple. A large U shaped tubular frame on
the bottom with four wheels. And a L shaped hoist and pump
assembly that mounted into the U shaped base frame. The long arm
was extended by 15 inches to almost the length of the two wheels
at the end of the U shaped base. The end of the arm had a easy to
use clip (similar to what rope climbers use: a large ring with a
side latch to release a rope).
This arrangement/design allowed a person to roll the lift quite
close to the battery to be lifted, and the U shaped frame and
wheels just slid under the car.
With the two of us acting as a team, he operating the pump, and I
man handling the batteries, & with the both of us pulling and
pushing the lift, we were able to yank all twenty-two US145s in
an hour. !WOW!
I spent 20 minutes cleaning the rear battery box, and front
battery racks. Then we started putting the US125s in the EV.
Total time to pull and put was 2.5 hours, and our backs were not
aching!
I recommend that each chapter consider building a lift like this,
and let it be loaned out to the EVr replacing their PbSO4 pack.
Perhaps a crank instead of a hydraulic lift, might make is
simpler less costly design.
Saturday evening I was cabling it all up as I began to lose the
sun light.
Sunday morning, while I was finishing the cabling, one of the
visiting Oregonians to my park just could not control themselves,
and had to see what this guy was doing.
But as soon as they find out, "Its an Electric ..." they look at
me like I am weird and walk off shaking their head (dang
Cali'fornians). I do not even get to tell them of all the good
EV deeds being done by EVr's in 'their' state. Oh well, their
loss.
With the pack cinched up, I read 139 VDC on my Emeter. My poor
Emeter, I think it has seen better days. I am pretty sure I have
gotten my money out this one. It might be time to consider an
upgrade.
I pulled my new PFC-30 out of the shipping box. It came with a
14-30 plug on the AC input side, and a SB-50 (grey) connector on
the output side. Well all my 10-3 extensions are set up with
14-50 receptacles and plugs. I guess there is a law that these
can't come with a 14-50 on the end. But that is not a big deal.
All PFC chargers are only using the ground (the round prong) and
the two hot lines (the two flat blades near the ground). The
neutral prong is not used by the PFC-30.
A 14-30 plug would fit into a 14-50 receptacle if it weren't for
the unused L shaped neutral prong. I solved that real quick, by
taking a hack saw to the L shaped prong and sawed it off close to
the surface of the molded plug. Now I have a plug that fits my
14-50 cords.
The PFC-30 case seems smaller and lighter than a PFC-20. The case
is a deep green, and there is quite a bright green LED that now
shines out the back of my blazer.
The dip switches on the PFC-30 are up-side down so, when the
paper instructions says switch number 1 is on, make sure -one-
you are setting the correct dip switch, and -two- on is the right
way round (on is down, not up).
I set the PFC-30 to do a timed finishing charge after the pack
has reached the set point. This means the PFC-30 will pump power
up to the voltage I set it to, then let the charge current taper
off, and do a minor over charge for a timed about of time.
The new pack completed its charge cycle in less than an hour. I
was able to set my new 132 VDC pack of US125s to do a finishing
charge at 171VDC ( http://usbattery.com/faq.htm : 2.583 V per
cell * 66 Cells = 171 VDC ).
That afternoon, I did my first break-in cycle. I drove my fully
charged pack to Palo Alto to drop off a battery lifting strap I
had borrowed.
I stopped by Otmar's and plugged in the PFC-30. I was only
drawing 26 amps AC from Otmar's 220 VAC. But I was putting in
36 amps DC with a 142 VDC pack voltage. That is quite good.
IT will be interesting to see how much power I get out on a
sagging 208 VAC source.
I also connected my Zivan NG5 and was pumping 76 Amps DC into
my pack. This is less that I could have gotten out using a
PFC-50, but my access to a 50 amp 14-50 is rare. The PFC-30
seems to be the best fit for an AVCON world.
I made it home fine, and all was well. No hot posts. I plan
to see if I can get some cupped stainless steel wasters on
my bolts. With washers, the nuts just sink into the lead posts
(not good).
I also have to do some research to learn how to reset my Emeter
from thinking it has a US145 pack to knowing it has a US125
pack.
ta
=====
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
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Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone know anything about these?
http://semicad.totoi.com/html/1.html
David Thompson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I think I am. I am working on an all electric bicycle
> where the alternator will put out a rectified but
> variable amount depending on how hard I pedal and what
> load I establish to go to either the controller or
> battery. when moving my little contribution goes to
> the controller but I will never be producing enough to
> move the bike at its design speed so what I fail to
> generate will come from the battery . However when
> the bike is stopped I will continue to pedal and add a
> little to the batteries and when I am going down hill
> I can continue to pedal and add some regen to build
> the batts back up. It may not be as effecient as the
> standard chains and gears but I just want to do it to
> see for myself.
Yes, it works and yes you end up with much lower efficiency than a
standard bicycle drivetrain. Even if you use high efficiency
motor/generators you will probably end up with lower efficiency that one
of the old three speed bikes with the internal hub gears (probably the
lowest efficiency bicycle drive commonly used).
However, if you spend a lot of time in stop and go traffic, this type of
system can be advantageous. You can bank energy while stopped and produce
more power from the e-motor than most folks can so you can accelerate
faster and keep up with traffic.
Definitely go with the high efficiency motor/generators if you can afford it.
Another idea you might investigate, using some sort of clutch to
mechanically link the pedals to a drive wheel when cruising. This would
eliminate the double conversion looses. Of course, unless you add a
multispeed drive train, this means that you'll have to pick a specific
gear ratio which will limit you to a small range of cruising speeds, say
25-35 mph.
I say "a" drive wheel, because it doesn't necessarily have to be the same
wheel that the e-motor is connected to.
The trike I'm currently in the planning stages of, will be a tadpole
design (single front wheel) with electrically driven rear wheels and
steering similar to the flevo bike. This would allow me to pedal-drive
the front wheel and avoid the long chain to the rear that most recumbents
have as well as avoiding the twisting chain setups that most front wheel
drive recumbents have.
Now all I have to do is figure out a simple, efficient, and light weight
method of connecting and disconnecting the pedals front the front wheel.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw a booth at EVS20 by a chinese company that had a zinc battery on
a bicycle. The one battery was about the size of a large car battery,
it had preformed zinc plates that hung in the tank of the battery. By
the end of it's use the zinc plates where nothing but mush
oat the bottom of the tank. They said you just needed to add new plates
to continue.
I remember this booth and spoke with the company president at length,
though I don't recall seeing the cells built into a bicycle.
I don't have the company name in front of me (I'm mobile at the moment),
but these guys were marketing the product to locations where there was
no electrical infrastructure, but UPS delivery. If someone REALLY wants
the data, I'll dig it up when I am back at the office.
The idea was that you install a bank of these to power your house, then
when the plates are dissolved, you collect the slurry and trade it for
new plates to install. UPS would pick up the used slurry containers and
deliver new plates which would then revitalize your batteries.
Even with the cost of reconsituting the plates and international
shipping, they were quoting something like 11 cents a KWh. They were
selling the electrons, not the batteries.
Kind of an awkward way to do things, but maybe it really is cost
effective for some remote locations not serviced by the grid
infrastructure.
It certainly was a novel approach.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No-one else mentioned this, so I guess I'll have to ask:
<< The car call TRANSFORMER I weighs 7850 lbs. Plug in a engine-generator
which consist of a 3 phase 37.5 KW alternator which can deliver 180 volts at
300 amps to a 165 volt GE motor that ran at 92 mph. >>
So, wasn't the generator's output actually 54 KW (180V * 300A)?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
snip
25-35 mph.
I was thinking 20mph max speed
Fancy that: I too am working on a tadpole opposite
configutation though-- two driven side wheels and a
caster rear wheel (robot stearing) very low to the
ground- full faring--possibly some solar panels-
whole thing to weigh less than 200lbs 36/48v
2-500watt motors li-ion/caps
do you have any drawings/engineering calks as to
performance/computer inerface ideas etc
> will be a tadpole
> design (single front wheel) with electrically driven
> rear wheels and
> steering similar to the flevo bike. This would
> allow me to pedal-drive
> the front wheel and avoid the long chain to the rear
> that most recumbents
> have as well as avoiding the twisting chain setups
> that most front wheel
> drive recumbents have.
>
> Now all I have to do is figure out a simple,
> efficient, and light weight
> method of connecting and disconnecting the pedals
> front the front wheel.
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee, (or anyone ) awhile back you posted about getting a acquisition kit
from www.mpja.com or Marlin p jones . I was looking at there 4-input
8418-KT ,
available for $55 . I don't remember which one you talked about or in the
end what you did with it . I am thinking about using opto couplers (for the
isolation) set up to measure voltage on four batteries in a traction pack .
I am also thinking about putting a heat sensor on each one , and logging
that also ( it says 8 multiplexed analog inputs) . The inputs are 0 to 4
volts but as I'll be using the opto couplers I'll have to have some king of
power supply on the output side of the opto couplers and resistors to make
the output right and a 10v ziner diode and resistor on the input as will
only be interested in 10 to 15v range . any thoughs
Steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got a great bridge for sale! Sorry for the sarcasm, no it will not
work. You cannot get something for nothing and any vehicle has friction
which will slow it down. Trying to charge batteries will only slow it
down more...The design is probably 100 years old.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of NMS
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 7:41 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Electromatic motor
How do you think about the electromatic motor
(presented at www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com).
It is a hoax or it could work? Seems to be an very
simple and efficient EV. I couldn't find additional
information on the Internet about that matter.
Sorin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yeah, where can you get them?
Gadget
--- James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyone know anything about these?
>
> http://semicad.totoi.com/html/1.html
>
> David Thompson
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is 37.5kw per phase. The alternator is connected for 250 VAC Delta
going through a 3 phase 900 amp bridge. Each phase leg of 125 volts or 250
volts phase to phase inputs into the three phase bridge, has a output of 280
VDC.
37,500/125 = 300 amps per phase alternator rating.
Three phase has a current ratio of 1.00 time the direct current, so:
300 amps times 280 volts = 84kw which is the total output of all three
phases from a 3 phase rectifier.
Three lines of 125 VAC at 300 amps into a 3 phase rectifier then has a
output of 280 VAC at 300 Amps at DC.
When we install a 3 phase bank of 25 kva transformers, it means 25 kva per
phase. The ampere per phase is about 25000/125= 200 amps.
If we connected them all up in parallel for 125 volt single phase than it
would total about 75000/125 = 600 amps .
When you install a 250 volt 50 amp 2 pole circuit breaker in your house
panel, this means 50 amp per line. At a 250 volt load Line 1 to Line 2 or
Phase to Phase, the maximum rated amperes is at 50 amps.
If you split the two lines in 125 amps load, the maximum ampere is still 50
amps per line or a total of 100 amps of circuit loads.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: pusher trailer info
> No-one else mentioned this, so I guess I'll have to ask:
>
> << The car call TRANSFORMER I weighs 7850 lbs. Plug in a engine-generator
> which consist of a 3 phase 37.5 KW alternator which can deliver 180 volts
> at
> 300 amps to a 165 volt GE motor that ran at 92 mph. >>
>
> So, wasn't the generator's output actually 54 KW (180V * 300A)?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.kitsrus.com/kits.html#k118 shows you the schematic, specs and
download SW.
I bought one from a place in Canada, for more money, but at least they
_would_ take my money!.
It's tiny and so easy that any common idiot could build it. Roger
Stockton designed a multiplexer for me so I can cycle and test up to 32
NiCad cells. And he's writing the SW. And fixed my assembly fuckup
(switched the only 2 IC's - I'm a most uncommon idiot.) Roger's such a
great guy!
-John Foster
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Clunn
Sent: January 31, 2005 6:33 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: data acquisition kit info
Lee, (or anyone ) awhile back you posted about getting a acquisition
kit
from www.mpja.com or Marlin p jones . I was looking at there 4-input
8418-KT ,
available for $55 . I don't remember which one you talked about or in
the
end what you did with it . I am thinking about using opto couplers (for
the
isolation) set up to measure voltage on four batteries in a traction
pack .
I am also thinking about putting a heat sensor on each one , and logging
that also ( it says 8 multiplexed analog inputs) . The inputs are 0 to 4
volts but as I'll be using the opto couplers I'll have to have some king
of
power supply on the output side of the opto couplers and resistors to
make
the output right and a 10v ziner diode and resistor on the input as will
only be interested in 10 to 15v range . any thoughs
Steve clunn
--- End Message ---
