EV Digest 4096
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 500A battery load tester
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) RE: 1970s cars
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 42-volt starting batteries an' stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) gmail - EVDL
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EV snow blowers?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Solectria / Sunrise was AC Motors and Reverse
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: 1970s Cars
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 500A battery load tester
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: RE Current Eliminator News.
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: 1970s Cars
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Honda, Nissan join suit against CA
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Red Beastie specs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: 500A battery load tester
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: AC Motors and Reverse and the Dragstrip
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I'm new to EV, so excuse the ignorance, but why test the 'pack'? Don't you
really want to know which individual battery is bad?
thanks
Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
snipped
It was designed to capacity test golf cart battery packs. It would hook
up with clamps across 36 volts worth of batteries, then discharge them at
75 Amps until they reached the cutoff voltage.
snipped
but it could only do one 12 Volt battery at a time.
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--- Begin Message ---
Well guys, that's a sumbeam tiger, you could get it with a 4, 6 ,8 and V12
engine, the V12 (Just one produced for racing) rated 1000 Hp, and reached
327 km/hr.
That's a neat little vehicle, but as hollywood usualy does, they look nice
but are totally unreal for the lady in the movie to own, that car is scarce,
really expensive, and a classic.
You can also see it as Maxwell's Smart's car in the television series Get
Smart.
4 cyl: 1.725 cm3 & 100 cv at 5.500 rpm
V8 : V8 Ford Fairlane 260, 4.261 cm3 & 164 cv a 4.400 rpm.
2nd. V8: Mustang 289, 4,75 Litre.
Total production figures 7.100
Years of production 1955 - 1964
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Ryan Stotts
Enviado el: sábado, 12 de febrero de 2005 23:19
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: 1970s cars
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Is the car Arnold uses in "Commando"
>(tears out the driver's seat with his bare hands)
>similar or was that a Tiger?
Since I happen to have that DVD.. Here are some shots of
that car:
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/1779/commando16fm.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/2355/commando26dv.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/3087/commando35ji.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/6821/commando46sb.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/2921/commando56qa.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/4459/commando63ma.jpg
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
J Mac wrote:
> Looking for electric vehicle with good range (50 miles +) & that can tow
> around 900 lbs.
>
> Please send suggestions/links/ideas/contacts.
Midsized pickup, 9 inch series wound motor, 5 speed tranny, 40, T-105 6V golf
car
batteries @120V. A real 120 miles range under ideal conditions, 80 or so under
less than
ideal conditions, and able to tow 4000+ lbs. for 45 miles at 50-55 mph.
See the EV photo Album and check out Red Beastie in the Toyota section:
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/037.html>
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: 42-volt starting batteries
> On 11 Feb 2005 at 17:37, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> > If there was /any/ kind of advantage in building your own batteries
> > /someone/ would be doing it.
>
> That statement might be a bit narrow. After all, Bob Aronson built his
own
> over 30 years ago, and he continues to carry the torch for "lead cobalt"
> batteries. Over the years he's apparently tried to interest several
> manufacturers in putting his design into serial production - 6 or 8 years
> ago I remember he was over in China trying to find someone - but I don't
> think any production relationship has ever really come to fruition.
>
> It's never been entirely clear to me what measurable and verifiable
effect,
> if any, his cobalt doping really had. Maybe Bob Rice has some thoughts on
> that, since he worked for Aronson in the EFP days.
>
> Would I try rolling my own? I doubt it. Most batteries are made with
> fairly nasty chemicals. Renewing the electrolyte in a lead acid battery
is
> about as far as I want to go with handling hazardous materials. I don't
> think I'm qualified to tinker with much more battery chemistry than that.
>
> Hi Dave an' All;
Ah! Yes! The Good Olde EFP Daze, or building your own batteries. Well,
we DID put together a few experimental, small, Hawker size 2 volt cells,
Tripolar construction. They were unconventual "Clamshell" I called it
configuration. The plastic cases were slid together and GLUED together, the
cases were vinel like PVC plunbing today, the glue sorta welded together.
As the battery place Bob delt with was too busyto do this for us, Ron
Gremban and I were dispatched over to the battery factory to assemble these
cells. We had plates especially made for this design, and seperators, a
plastic stuff. Wish I saved a few , EVen just for referance. You really
don't see these battery components nice and new and clean! The discusting
glop you pull out of a dead battery when it dies is something else<G.!
When yur doing it two volts at a time, it is @#$% tedious work. You set
the plates up poz-neg-poz neg seoeraters in place between, of course! This
all goes in a frame to hold it together to solder, or burn together, as the
battery folks call it, THREE times , yes, folks a Tri Polar battery! Two on
the bottom and one on top. I can't rightly remember, it was about 35 years
aho HOW the lead was formed to connect all the plates together, except it
was tricky at first but we DID get good at it.At that time I realized that
you COULD design the battery to carry more amps if you beefed all this up
INSIDE the cell, and used fatter terminals, coming through the case. This
would hafta be done at the plate leval, beefier tabs up to the part where
they are soldered to the common buss, and up to the post. OK ,go drop and
bust open a golf Cart battery, Ya see what I mean? Gees! Wimpy inside, isn't
it? I skillsawed a Trogan T 105 open a few month ago, Surprised me how, Im
MY opinion wasn't really heavey enough for the amps I wanted, although if
you drive arounf@ 75 amps(BORING as hell) you don't get much voltage sag. I
brought these thoughts to Bob's attention, he sorta agreed, but said thast
since we were running about 150 volts, not a problem. Gees 150 volts in THE
SIXTIES! Most EVers were playing with 48 or 60 in those daze! Over a period
of a few weeks we hand built enough for the "Copper Chassis" a running EV
chassis fior the Copper Development Association, a copper trade group, they
had deep pockets were willing to fund a few chassis and later on a car or
two? I think they are still in biz?
Another feature of these cells was an electrolyte recirculation system,
all these little cells were fitted with nipples to hook up plastic lines to
to pump the electrolyte around. What a nightmare! After the cells were
fitted into thre car, EVERYthing leaked! the #$%^ seams on the cases, the
plastic lines SWEATED acid! The pump didn't like the acid diet, Damn car
DRIPPED acid over time, a Drip Pan under it at a show! We surely didn't have
the right stuff to contain the acid. I guess plastics are better, today? I
mean we spanned back then the old tar sealed 6 volters that made Bob's fame
with the Mars Two Renault car. It acheaved stunning miliage figures, with
the tripolars, Hell ANY EV with that battery ratio to car weight would.
Renault weighed in at 4200 lbs BEFORE I got in! Over 2000 lbs of lead
aboard. This is the car that people remember breaking up from fatigue, body
poping rivits wtc. As you know Renaults were barely enough in GAS form, 3
lug nuts per wheel, all that. Wasn't designed for doubling the curb weight.
He would trot the Mars off to a track and run around at fixed speed for
HOURS doing 120 miles@ 30 or so, Series Parallel, 60 volts on the
controller. On the more practcal side I DID drive Mars from Detroit to
Chicago, about 300 miles, to visit and old Army buddy, EACH way! I traveled
the Electric Car Expressway, actually I - 94 to you gas folks. Bob had set
up 240 three faze voltage drops at select Holiday Inns EVery 40-50 miles.
Charger aboard and Anderson 3 prong plugs at the Holiday Inns. I swear it
was/is the same system Amtrak adapted when THEY set the 480 volt standard
for RR lighting heating from the locomotive that EVerybody uses on RR's
today. If you own a RR passenger car and wanna travel via Amtrak you MUST be
fitted with all this wiring, at least pass through, but if you are passing
it through, may as well tap in for YOUR heating and lighting. No extra
charge. It's fun, I hava few friends into the Private RR car thing. Damn
Expensive hobby! But fun. Like a boat, 85 foot hole in a siding to dump
money! But fun in a elegently restored 1914 observation car, sitting out on
the observation platform as you glide down the rails, with your "20th
Century Limited "drumhead sign lit up to impress the commuters as you pull
away in regal splender!
Back to the story, it was a LOOOONG afternoon, first stop was Ann Arbor,
MI about 40 miles? from Detroit, long cuppa coffeeabout half hour charge at
200 amps, on the way again Jackson, about 80 miles? from Detroit. Lunch. On
ward to Kalamazoo, more than a Glenn Miller song, charge ...EAT again,
raizes havoc with any diet! A few other stops along the way. Michigan City
IN I think was a port of call. Was a long day but fun, doing show and tell,
yes folks in the sixties would be interested in EV's Assuring them that by
the turn of the Century EV's would be common. Hah! Still waiting like
EVerybody else. Sigh!
Arriving at Chcage we put Mars in the garage plugged it into a ancient
plug for a Looong overnight [EMAIL PROTECTED] or less charge. Bob's system ,
light
years ahead of it's time, higher voltages, dump charging, was, we felt
leading the way, but not paying the bills. Sorta fast forward to today,
James Worden, HE to believes in pure EV's but doesn't have the $ clout to
just" DO IT "like the Nike folks say. Bob had a dream car, too, IT never
ran, or got built beyond a fiberglas mock up, ready to show to potential
investers. Hell, as James found out it takes BIG bux to turn dreams into
reality. James at leased DID build and drive Sunrise. We all owe Jim a tip
of the hat for DOING something, like Boston NY on ONE charge, a few years
ago with his faithful Ninh battery. I would suppose that if somebody with
deep pockets stepped up to the plate, Bill Gates ,Sadamn Housain, Osama Bin
Laden, OOPS the're in the Oil Biz, bad guess! Somebody in Show Biz? James
could would dust off Sunrise. A more practical 4 seater sedan, than the
EV -1 With Sunrise on the Detroit Chicago run you coulda stopped at ONE
holiday inn, about half way ,for a leasurly dinner, topped off the Nimh's,
and sailed off on your way. The infrastructure was in place, COULD be in
place. After all ,electricity is pretty common nowadaze.
Picked up a great little book at a used book store for 5 bux; "Charging
Ahead" An Electric car that Goes the Distance , by Joe Sherman. Oxford
University Press Pub date Sept. 1998. Basicly the story od Solectria in it's
formative years.the ISBN is 0-19-509479-4 A great read! goes into the heady
days of possable EV production, before the todayz political scene. Read it
and weep!
OK I'll quit, OT enough for now.
On last few racing figures. Acela trainset 0 to 60 in 40 seconds,120 mph
in two minites. I can hear J Wayland growning! Didn't have room to time 150!
I'll hafta hand pick a level streight spot for 0-to 150 times<g>!That's at
28k volts. There is a cool readout screen for volts and amps on the FIREMANS
side, not MY side so I can SEE it! If you have somebody with you to read it
out for you.
In Training
Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have Gmail invites available if anyone wants one. Gmail is very
good for storing and searching the EVDL (1 Gigabyte of space), and
it's free, and you can even retrieve all your mail with a POP reader,
if you want to. Reply privately if you want one.
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the Nov/Dec issue of "Current EVents" there is a picture of an EV
snow blower at the Ottawa Canada EAA's MUTA show in 2004. Anyone know
about this unit? Is it battery or corded? The accompanying text
(excerpts from the EVDL) discussed corded snow blowers and the
ElecTrak.... has anyone done a large-ish battery powered blower? Albeit
expensive, something like the Valence LiIon units might be a good match.
I know someone interested in using an ElecTrak for his driveway after
bad experiences with ICE snow blowers that conk out when most needed.
However the ET strikes me as a bit oversize for the space so I was
trying to figure out other options like a regular self-propelled snow
blower converted to electric.
PS Another page in the same newsletter has a typo that makes it look
like I'm with the NY times... rest assured I'm not!
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whar bums all this is the second law of thermodynamics, but you can try, in
fact, the transformation of one kind of energy to another (i.e. from
electtric to kinetic, to pump a fluid, will have a large efficiency loss.
Other than that in will work.
Ivo.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Dave
Enviado el: domingo, 13 de febrero de 2005 14:57
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
Exactly. This reminds me of a car I saw on "Junkyard Wars". They used a
hydraulic pump with an ICE engine to power 4 hydraulic motors at the wheels.
I am thinking an EV with this type of setup (Mandatory EV content) might
have some merit. The motor would run constantly, with the variation in speed
differential being controlled by hydraulic means. Any thoughts?
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"I'm figuring out what's good for me, but only by a process of elimination"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 09:19:19 -0800, Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> On some of the old B-52G aircraft engines, the hydraulic pump was a
>> variable
>> pressure type with a wobble plate that would compress the pump cylinders
>> in
>> various amounts, depending on the load required . Sorry if this sounds
>> light
>> on specifics, but I AM old and forgetful. Anyway, the pump would run
>> continuously, being geared to aircraft engine, but would have variable
>> output.
>
> It's called a variable swash plate pump. The plate is usually driven
> by a special valve that maintains a preset pressure, so the flow will
> vary in accordance with demand. IIRC, you want to use this with a
> closed centre valve block (very little oil flowing when there are no
> spools activated).
>
> This too would be a good addition for Raymond's application, that way
> the motor can be chosen so that it will run all the time.
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Seth Allen wrote:
> The expense of that car had nothing to do with AC drive. The
> fact that
> a whole car was made and crash tested and only 3 fiberglass
> bodies were
> made, probably figures into the price. And I have no idea if that is
> the real number.
Hi Seth,
Was the Sunrise merely crash tested (the results of which were rather
impressive, as I recall), or did it go through the full FMVSS certification
process?
I almost hope the answer is "crash test only". To have such a car designed,
proven and *certified for production*, only to have the program discarded,
would be too much to bear.
There was a discussion some time ago that the Sunrise (as viewed/driven at
EVS14?) was rather rough around the edges. Was the program truly at a stage
where a manufacturer do a minor polish of the results of Solectria's efforts
and be ready for production? Or are we talking about nothing more than an
operational concept car? Is Solectria still looking for someone to produce
it?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't forget the fiat 600
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/206.html
Sturdy little midget.
Ivo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Lawrence Rhodes
Enviado el: lunes, 14 de febrero de 2005 3:07
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: 1970s Cars
Anyone see a Subaru 360 or a Honda 600. Fiat 500 - 750. Three wheeled
Cushmans. Subaru 600. Mini's. VW pan with anything on it. I saw a 7
pound fender for a VW. I bet you could really reduce the weight of a VW by
getting a synthetic body. Maybe even a cool oval 50's rear window.
Lawrence Rhodes.......
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: 500A battery load tester
> I'm new to EV, so excuse the ignorance, but why test the 'pack'? Don't you
> really want to know which individual battery is bad?
> thanks
> Rush
>
Hi Rush;
You're right on. You want to find the bum battery BEFORE you're
stranded. I guess if you're patient and want to stand by, voltmeter in hand
,checking who is losin it, battery wise, faster than doing each battery, one
at a time. Bad batteries always heat up under load. If you suspect week
cells, when you get more voltage sag than usual, feel around after a good
long run, yul find it!
Seeya
Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> snipped
>
> > It was designed to capacity test golf cart battery packs. It would hook
> > up with clamps across 36 volts worth of batteries, then discharge them
at
> > 75 Amps until they reached the cutoff voltage.
>
> snipped
> > but it could only do one 12 Volt battery at a time.
> >
>
>
>
> --
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> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 2/13/2005 09:39 PM, you wrote:
we had
already WON.
Congratulations!!!
Dennis Berube 4000+ EV qt.
miles in 15 years
4000+ miles, one quarter mile at a time. That's a lot of runs. Impressive.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not to beat a dead horse, but sort of losses are we talking about? Heat,
noise? What sort of ewfficiency, I wonder, would such a rig have. I suppose
measurments made at the electric drive motor, and at the traction motor
would give us a quick and dirty of the %.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"I'm figuring out what's good for me, but only by a process of elimination"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 7:51 AM
Subject: RE: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
Whar bums all this is the second law of thermodynamics, but you can try,
in
fact, the transformation of one kind of energy to another (i.e. from
electtric to kinetic, to pump a fluid, will have a large efficiency loss.
Other than that in will work.
Ivo.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Dave
Enviado el: domingo, 13 de febrero de 2005 14:57
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
Exactly. This reminds me of a car I saw on "Junkyard Wars". They used a
hydraulic pump with an ICE engine to power 4 hydraulic motors at the
wheels.
I am thinking an EV with this type of setup (Mandatory EV content) might
have some merit. The motor would run constantly, with the variation in
speed
differential being controlled by hydraulic means. Any thoughts?
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"I'm figuring out what's good for me, but only by a process of
elimination"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 09:19:19 -0800, Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
On some of the old B-52G aircraft engines, the hydraulic pump was a
variable
pressure type with a wobble plate that would compress the pump cylinders
in
various amounts, depending on the load required . Sorry if this sounds
light
on specifics, but I AM old and forgetful. Anyway, the pump would run
continuously, being geared to aircraft engine, but would have variable
output.
It's called a variable swash plate pump. The plate is usually driven
by a special valve that maintains a preset pressure, so the flow will
vary in accordance with demand. IIRC, you want to use this with a
closed centre valve block (very little oil flowing when there are no
spools activated).
This too would be a good addition for Raymond's application, that way
the motor can be chosen so that it will run all the time.
--
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--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:42:22 -0800, Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not to beat a dead horse, but sort of losses are we talking about? Heat,
> noise? What sort of ewfficiency, I wonder, would such a rig have. I suppose
> measurments made at the electric drive motor, and at the traction motor
> would give us a quick and dirty of the %.
On the big machines I'm familiar with, they are definitely inferior to
torque-converter / gearbox setups, but are used anyway given the other
advantages.
It's in the low 70% range. Big, fan cooled radiators on any
hydrostatic machine give the game away. You'd do better on a road
vehicle but probably still worse than a CVT or anything else.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I suspect an Electravan 750 could do it. I just got mime going. It is very
torquey. It never draws more that about 150 amps. No wonder every one of
the Jet Industries vehicles I have seen still work. The charger needs
divorce papers to come with it (very loud transformer)and the vehicle is
loud at low motor speeds but they are durable and seemingly powerful.
Lawrence Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Mac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
Looking for electric vehicle with good range (50 miles +) & that can tow
around 900 lbs.
Please send suggestions/links/ideas/contacts.
Thanks!
Mac
_________________________________________________________________
Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
... The charger needs divorce papers to come with it (very loud
transformer)and the vehicle is
loud at low motor speeds but they are durable and seemingly powerful.
Lawrence Rhodes.........
Would isolating the transformer with rubber padding or similar material
help? I assume it is vibrating against a solid metal object.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"I'm figuring out what's good for me, but only by a process of elimination"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Though the car would never turn heads
driving down the street, once it's parked and he lifts the hood or pops the
trunk, it
demands respect. Ralph's EV Prism has been a great machine to show others
how a nice home
built electric conversion can be assembled with pride and integrity.
See Ya.......John Wayland
That's a compliment that means a lot comming from someone who is a total
neat freak conserning his EV's. Ralph could you comment on how you are
charging your pack of NiCads with a PFC charger. Rich wouldn't sell me one
to charge my NiCads saying the chances of a spectacular battery launch and
resulting superfund site would be too high. Do you use a timer or software?
I'd really like to know and is it available to the general EV public?
Lawrence Rhodes..........
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
All have to look the same...
Darn!! I wanted to use high speed Areo space hydrualic actuators, Seattle
and Boeing, kind have this figured out...
New and spiffy ! sets the crowd off.
> instead of bus bar.
> Just nervous about it as I have never seen it done before. This also
> brings up another question in my mind. I am building custom saddle bags
> (sort of) to hold one set each of three batteries. The one side's negative
> will go to the motors negative post, about 12" away. The positive of the
> same set will go 16" to the negative of the other set in the saddle bag,
on
> the opposite side. It will then go 24" to the next set of three batteries.
> The next set is only six inches from the last set. Which then will have to
> travel about 4feet through fuses, disconnects, and contactors. Does the
> distance between the strings have to be all equal?
>
In a perfect world yes. In racing use a clamp on peak recording amp meter
Like Rod has.
If you get the packs to make within 50 amps of each other I would say you
mave it well in hand.
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On 14 Feb 2005 at 13:11, Ivo Jara wrote:
> Don't forget the fiat 600
I recall that some respectable conversions were carried out in the 1970s
using the Fiat 850 Spyder - a very nimble, light chassis, but fairly sturdy,
and
(IMO) a sexy little number.
>From the factory it came with an 850cc engine in the rear, driving a swing
axle (I think) rear end with very low gearing. It wound up to something like
4500 rpm at 70 mph.
Yet another object of my teenage motor lust, entirely redeemable with
electric drive. <g>
http://www.motorbase.com/vehicle/by-id/843/gallery.ehtml
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Ryan,
Huge power supplies are already available and used extensively in
the competition stereo world. Another problem would exist once all the
weight of the batteries was removed. Most battery banks are in the trunk, on
the outside of the rear axle. Guys use this weight to help off set the
weight of the front end. Removing weight from the car is good, but removing
the weight of the batteries might have a negative effect.
These guys have sort of come full circle. It used to be no holds barred, and
you would see cars 8 feet high in the air. Now it is sort of back to its
roots. My customer won with a 36" hop. There was another guy capable of 40+"
but he broke, and his car weighs half as much as Eric's 74 LeSabre. So even
if he hopped higher, he might still have lost. Eric's goal is to have a set
up that looks the same, does the same as the others, but with lower voltage.
If he can do that, he will be envied by guys that are a few inches higher
than him.
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Lawrence...
You were talking about surplus Military NiCads... Ralph has or had Safts
that were EV desinged.
Ralph is also a tech head and working on Evilbuss controls and interfaces.
So... he has some pretty good design and control theory behind him. And he
has melted down a Nicad or two with heavy loads.
He has paid the price and knows what to look for in Nicad charging cycles.
I don't think you do.....And I fear a heavy hand a with on of my
chargers, and having the operator learn the Do's and don'ts in a hard fast
way.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
> Though the car would never turn heads
> driving down the street, once it's parked and he lifts the hood or pops
the
> trunk, it
> demands respect. Ralph's EV Prism has been a great machine to show others
> how a nice home
> built electric conversion can be assembled with pride and integrity.
>
> See Ya.......John Wayland
>
> That's a compliment that means a lot comming from someone who is a total
> neat freak conserning his EV's. Ralph could you comment on how you are
> charging your pack of NiCads with a PFC charger. Rich wouldn't sell me
one
> to charge my NiCads saying the chances of a spectacular battery launch and
> resulting superfund site would be too high. Do you use a timer or
software?
> I'd really like to know and is it available to the general EV public?
> Lawrence Rhodes..........
>
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Ralph no longer charges NiCads. When he did he used a Brusa Charger I
believe. His Saft NiCads began failing, and I eventually inherited them.
They are the modules strapped on my motorcycle on the EV Album.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/497.html. I think he gave me about 18 of
them, and I was hoping that 8 of them would last. I only have 2 of his
original pack that have not failed. I also have 3 left from Gary Granuke's
pack. None of Gary's modules have failed on me. My last failure was just
last week after posting about mounting the 6 good modules back on the bike
with some individual cells in series to bump up the voltage. One of the
Saft modules ruputered during charging after a test run. This is the way
all of the ones I have had fail have went. Ralph's originaly failures were
a bit more dramatic (IIRC) when under full load pulling a hill he heard a
serious of loud bangs. He bought some replacements from Gary, and started
to reinitialize the pack and suffered the same type of "on charge" failures
I have experienced. These failures are consistent with a manufacturing
defect documented in Europe.
I redid my pack this weekend and now have 5 100 ahr STM modules and 13 sets
of Saft 400VM 34 ahr buddy pair cells in series. This puts me at 45 volts
nominal which limits me to about 52mph. I expect a range of 15 - 20 miles
out of the 60 ahr the full string contains, with a creep home mode of about
10 more miles on the 100ahr batteries alone( I wired the pack so that I can
easily jumper around the individual cells and run on the 30V worth of STMs
if needed). I'm still hoping to try a trip to Wayland's house some day
soon. Of course I do not expect the Saft STM modules to last much longer,
but playing with reject batteries is still lots of fun and educational. I
have managed to ride my motorcycle over 2000 miles with nothing but hand me
down batteries :-)
If the STM modules last long enough, I will have at least some anectdotal
evidence of how charging buddy paired flooded NiCad cells works. I'm not
detailed oriented enough to do any real science, but I'll note whether
anything dramatic happens or if they lose capicity. Each individual cell
was discharge tested and they were paired together to make sure that each
pair should have at least 60ahr. In one case this meant pairing up my best
cell 38ahr with my worst 27 ahr. This one should be interesting to watch.
I believe Ralph got a new set of Optimas.
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Ralph Merwin's Jelly Bean
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:37:27 -0800
Though the car would never turn heads
driving down the street, once it's parked and he lifts the hood or pops the
trunk, it
demands respect. Ralph's EV Prism has been a great machine to show others
how a nice home
built electric conversion can be assembled with pride and integrity.
See Ya.......John Wayland
That's a compliment that means a lot comming from someone who is a total
neat freak conserning his EV's. Ralph could you comment on how you are
charging your pack of NiCads with a PFC charger. Rich wouldn't sell me one
to charge my NiCads saying the chances of a spectacular battery launch and
resulting superfund site would be too high. Do you use a timer or
software? I'd really like to know and is it available to the general EV
public? Lawrence Rhodes..........
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Somehow I missed the news on Feb. 4 that Honda and
Nissan have joined the suit by other automakers
against California's clean-air laws.
You can send a letter to Honda easily from the web
site of the Union of Concerned Scientists:
http://www.ucsaction.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=22412
=====
Sherry Boschert
President
San Francisco Electric Vehicle Association
415-681-7731
www.sfeaa.org
There are 941 electric vehicles and neighborhood electric vehicles in San
Francisco (DMV statistics). No gas, no oil, no noise, and no emisssions -- no
kidding!
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
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Check out Feb 2005 popular science page 17. volvo has such a car , but I
don't Know if you can get it in the states.
Larry 72 Datsun Elec TK
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John,
Just the kind of EV I want
I am in Tucson AZ, actually outside in 3 Points and so if I go into town,
shopping, movie whatever, then it is about a 80-100 mile trip. Coming back
to my place I have a slight incline, 1% for about 4 miles. The truck I am
looking for can be anything, S-10, Ranger, Toyota... I plan to take the bed
out, lower the batteries as much as possible and put in a flat bed (wooden?
no sides, just stake holes) so that if I want I can put stuff on top.
So John, you use the FB-4001, not the 4001A? Is the cost of the dual shaft
not worth the potential of hooking something up to it? And 40 T-105's, wow,
2,400 lbs, so obviously a set of HD springs. Have you ever considered using
L-16's? they are about the same in AH, but only 6 inches taller (420 AH at
20 hr rate, 11.5" x 7" x 16.75" and weight 121 lbs each, much heavier to
move around....) so you save about 3 cu ft and that would mean only 1 string
instead of 2 strings at 120 VDC. Does hooking up 2 strings mean more
hardware? it means more cable/metal/lugs/crimping/$/etc. Also the footprint
of the batteries is much smaller, 20.5 sq ft for the 105's vs 11.35 sq ft
for the L16's, 35% smaller.
What about your controller? The description of the 'Beastie' says a
DCP-1200, but one of the pictures shows a liquid-cooled Auburn Kodiak MPC
controller. Here in AZ it gets pretty hot in the summer and under the hood
even hotter, so I guess liquid cooled components are the best way to go if
they don't drain too much power for the pumps. Or a Zilla?
I also see that the battery connections are bus bar types. Is that a better
connector for the amps than a cable and lug? easier to make?
Charger - at home I can use 240 so what is a good 120/240 charger?
Also I still don't grasp the concept of not shifting, leaving it in 2nd gear
and letting the rpms do the work - on the highway, wouldn't it be better to
shift up to 3rd or even 4th or is it that the torque would not be enough to
sustain the speed? And I understand that it is possible to shift with out
using the clutch?
Anyway, all and any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Midsized pickup, 9 inch series wound motor, 5 speed tranny, 40, T-105 6V
golf car
batteries @120V. A real 120 miles range under ideal conditions, 80 or so
under less than
ideal conditions, and able to tow 4000+ lbs. for 45 miles at 50-55 mph.
See the EV photo Album and check out Red Beastie in the Toyota section:
See Ya......John Wayland
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005
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John Wayland writes:
>
> Oh-oh .....the last thing I want to do, is offend fellow EVers, especially
> a good friend like Ralph.
No offence taken! Thanks for the kind words. I hope my current rebuild
lives up to the billing...
Just to bring people up to date, the next version of the Prizm will have
a 156v pack of 26 Optima Yellow Tops in buddy pairs, a Zilla Z1K controller,
a PFC-20 charger, a set of Mk2 Rudman Regulators with the regbus wired up
between the regulators and charger, and heated/insulated battery boxes.
Progress has been slow but steady.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> That's a compliment that means a lot comming from someone who is a total
> neat freak conserning his EV's. Ralph could you comment on how you are
> charging your pack of NiCads with a PFC charger. Rich wouldn't sell me one
> to charge my NiCads saying the chances of a spectacular battery launch and
> resulting superfund site would be too high. Do you use a timer or software?
> I'd really like to know and is it available to the general EV public?
I don't have NiCads any more. When I did have them, I used a Brusa NLG412
most of the time. I did use the PFC-20 sometimes, but then only for bulk
charging and then only when I could watch the pack voltage closely. I had
plans for a SAFT-aware controller for the PFC-20 but never built it. When
the NiCads blew up (literally) I sold the Brusa charger.
Ralph
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David Roden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My policy on tools is that life is too short to frustrate myself with
> inferior ones. I'd rather buy a high quality tool that's skimpy on
> "features" than a feature-laden tool that's poorly made and
> won't last.
Not to mention that a carbon-pile tester is of limited value for
determining the health of batteries for EV use anyway. A more useful
device is the sort of 75A load tester than Mike Chancey mentioned,
available from our good friends at Lester (yet, the same Lester that
makes chargers):
<http://www.lesterelectrical.com/products/batterytester.PDF>
Cheers,
Roger.
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Seth Allen wrote:
Siemens is the only inverter that I am aware of that has a charger built
in.
Unless you meant integrated DC-DC, I'd like to know which
Siemens inverters gave integrated charger in them.
Victor
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