EV Digest 4131
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery Exchange (The beauty of bendable batteries)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Minitrucks
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Solar was Re: Battery Exchange
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Minitrucks
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: OT: Solar was Re: Battery Exchange
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: GVMR weights
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Minitrucks
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Direct drive - how to do it right
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Motor constants
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Fast and Fun!
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: OT: Solar was Re: Battery Exchange
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) REvisited: More bumper sticker thoughts
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Welding Aluminum and another question
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Welding Aluminum and another question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania!
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
I used a small piece of 2/0 with crimped eyelet ends (each double crimped
with proper hex crimper). I ran three tests, the average being 80 Amp with
a 5.0mV drop, thus a resistance of 0.00063 ohms.
However, there are two major differences:
1) this short cable is 5" from centre to centre, and the straps are 2.25"
centre to centre.
2) The lug holes on this short cable are 5/16" and **not** the proper 1/4".
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: February 26, 2005 7:06 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
>Don Cameron wrote:
> I tested 2 types of straps (tinned and just crimped) as well as the
>flattened copper pipe, I ran each test 3 times. Two batteries were
>wired in series using the strap/bar to be tested, with a 80Amp load.
>The current was measured from a 500A shunt. The voltage drop was
>measured at the posts where the strap/bar was connected.
Just for additional comparison, I wish I had a short length of 2/0 or 4/0
with the ends crimped on that I could send to you to run that same test on
to see how it fairs to the 3 types you tested. I'd really like to know the
results.
Anyone have a spare interconnect you could send him if he would like to do
it for comparison reasons?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Looking for some ideas on how to Maximize efficiency when using
> a 3-phase PM alternator to charge batteries. 30V nominal battery
> voltage.
>
> Simplest way would probably be to use a 6-way bridge. I know I'll
> lose about 2% in the diodes
Lots more than that! The diodes have about a 1v drop at rated current,
and there are two in series. 2v/30v = 7% lost to the diodes.
At 30v, you can easily cut this in half with schottky diodes (3.5%). You
could cut this loss in half again with synchronous rectification
(complicated) or germanium diodes (hard to find).
> how much will I lose do to power factor issues?
That's harder to estimate. With a simple 3-phase rectifier bridge, the
alternator coils see about a 0.7 power factor. Improving this to 1.0
basically reduces the winding current to 70% for the same power output.
You'd have to know the winding resistance to estimate what your I^2R
losses are now, and what 70% less current would reduce them to. Then,
add the losses of whatever circuit you use for power factor correction.
> Is it worth the extra cost to go with something like synchronous
> rectification with power factor control? Is this the "Best" option
> efficiency wise?
The best option, efficiency-wise at 30v, is probably a brushed PM
generator. For instance, a Lynch/Lemco/Etek type motor used as a
generator, with high silver content brushes and brush timing properly
set for generator operation. You can certainly do better than 90%
efficiency.
> The second option also has the advantage that I could buck/boost
> voltage as neccessary, plus being able to control the charing
> current without having to vary the RPM.
Yes; this is a problem with a PM generator or alternator, if you need a
fixed or controllable output voltage despite rpm changes.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
>
> I tested 2 types of straps (tinned and just crimped) as well as the
> flattened copper pipe, I ran each test 3 times. Two batteries were wired in
> series using the strap/bar to be tested, with a 80Amp load. The current was
> measured from a 500A shunt. The voltage drop was measured at the posts
> where the strap/bar was connected.
>
> Braided, tinned strap: 80Amp load, 1.9mV drop = 0.000024 ohms
> Braided, crimped strap: 80Amp load, 2.2mV drop (this strap is 0.25" longer
> than the other strap and copper bar) = 0.000028 ohms
> Copper Bar 80 Amp load, 1.8mV drop = 0.000023 ohms
>
> I estimate absolute max amperage draw of my 312V system will be 300Amps. I
> will be using 6 of the straps in the packs (among other connectors). So
> these 6 straps will draw, at worst, P = I^2 x R = 300^2 x (6*0.000028) =
> 15.1 Watts
>
> Sounds not too bad...
Sounds excellent! Good work, Don.
PS: if you are trapping your copper braid inside a pipe, you may want to
fill the pipe with something to keep water (and especially acid!) out.
Solder of course where you don't mind stiffening the braid; or vaseline
or grease in areas where you want it to remain flexible.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> With a spare set of batteries at home, sitting on a drop in charger, you
> could manually swap the pack in less than 2 minutes.
>
AND .... you could have one pack charge from a solar array during the day while
you use the other
one. No oil. No coal. No CO2. No nukes (except the Sun).
Dave Cover
By the way, I just learned that the State of Connecticut has a reimbursement
program for
installing solar systems (PV). I'm not sure what the requirements are but they
will pay you $5 per
watt up to $25k. I'm sure there are some gotchas, but still!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Don Cameron wrote:
> I used a small piece of 2/0 with crimped eyelet ends (each double crimped
> with proper hex crimper). I ran three tests, the average being 80 Amp with
> a 5.0mV drop, thus a resistance of 0.00063 ohms.
>
> However, there are two major differences:
>
> 1) this short cable is 5" from centre to centre, and the straps are 2.25"
> centre to centre.
> 2) The lug holes on this short cable are 5/16" and **not** the proper 1/4".
>
If the 2/0 had 1/4" holes and was the same length as the straps, what
do you think the ohms might have been for it? Same or better or
worse?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave, I am on a newer version this evening.
I used a home made solder pot (before reading Lee's warning) to tin the
copper tubes before inserting the straps (all the way through). Then I
crimped the tubes onto the braided straps with a vice and drilled a hole. I
experimented with dipping them in the solder pot again, but this caused the
braid to become rigid (which defeats the purpose). So in the current
version, there is some exposed copper.
I will leave it to others to comment about NiCd, copper and corrosion.
Here is a picture of all the straps/cables I have tried.
a) the flattened copper tube,
b) the tubes with a braid and no tinning
c) Tin, crimp then tin again (but causes the braid to stiffen)
d) Tin, then crimp (Current version)
e) The last is the 2/0 cable I tested for Ryan.
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/VariousBatteryCables.JPG
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Cover
Sent: February 26, 2005 7:22 PM
To: EVList
Subject: RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Here is what I have come up with:
> http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/BatteryStraps.JPG
>
> Since I cannot find any connectors commercially available (locally
> anyways) with 1/4" stud, I used Victor's suggestion of braided cable
> with crimped copper pipe on either end. The braid goes through the
> entire pipe, so when they are bolted to the batteries this will ensure
> a good solid connection, but still allow flex.
Will there be any corrosion issues using this method with NiCad batteries?
Is there an easy way to coat/tin/protect the ends to prevent corrosion?
Also, do NiCads have issues with corroding the battery enclosure like lead
acids do from venting?
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have come accross a 64 or 68(I'll have to double check) datsun PU that
leaks/burns oil (looks like baby blue) Needs paint but body looks good
I can pick it up for $500.00 Or anyone else on the list that needs
one, let me know, I already have one conversion in the works and Ijust
had a we bit of a setback. I transposed 2 numbers and scraped my
adapterplate, gotta make it over. :-( ( 6.968 != 6.698 )
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 2/25/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Dave Cover:
> By the way, I just learned that the State of Connecticut has a reimbursement
> >program for installing solar systems (PV). I'm not sure what the
> requirements are >but they will pay you $5 per watt up to $25k.
I've often heard about this over the years:
If a person has solar and or turbine power, they can feed what they
produce back into the grid and sell it back to the power company?
Is that true? Does it "run the meter backwards" or slow it down? If
I was away from home all day and my solar cells are producing away..
Has anyone ever looked into these somewhat "low cost" solar panels for
powering a house?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90599
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40083
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40084
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40086
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90860
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40095
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90717
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It would be nice to be able to drive a little car, but at 6'8" tall and 350
Lbs, I gotta have more room. Maybe a '70 Imperial with 4 ea 9"-ers?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVlist" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:56 PM
Subject: Minitrucks
I have come accross a 64 or 68(I'll have to double check) datsun PU that
leaks/burns oil (looks like baby blue) Needs paint but body looks good
I can pick it up for $500.00 Or anyone else on the list that needs
one, let me know, I already have one conversion in the works and Ijust had
a we bit of a setback. I transposed 2 numbers and scraped my adapterplate,
gotta make it over. :-( ( 6.968 != 6.698 )
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 2/25/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Net metering laws vary by state. In many cases the utilities throw up as
many financial and legal barriers as they can. There are accordingly some
PV users who "spin the meter backwards" clandestinely. This of course is
illegal and, if done with the wrong gear, can result in the violator being
responsible for electrocuting utility workers, killing or injuring himself
or family members, and/or setting his house afire. Grid intertie PV is not
something to casually fool around with.
If one wishes to purchase PV panels, there are many legitimate sources -
from installing dealers to cash-and-carry DIY suppliers - which provide high
quality, long-lived panels suited to producing utility grade power. See
http://www.homepower.com for lots more information, a dizzying array of ads
for dealers, and interesting classifieds.
All that said: I hate to be a nag (again), but please note that this thread
has wandered off topic. Except as it applies directly to fueling an EV,
solar energy is more properly discussed on the Alternative Energy list.
There are many other suitable venues on the net, too - a Yahoo groups search
for "solar energy" turns up almost 200 groups!
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents,
more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some
great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach
their hearts' desire at last, and the White House will be
adorned by a downright moron.
-- H L Mencken, 1920
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found the following in a list of links on the EVDL Album links page.
It has some weight info.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca/nhtsa_inertia_database_english.xls
On Saturday, February 26, 2005, at 06:15 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Where can I find old GVWR and curb weights of trucks? are there any
online sites that anybody knows of or is it just hit all the goggle
sites or get a blue book?
Want to know the weight of a 86 toyota, 5 speed, reg truck now and
will want to know others later.
Found this for Chevy's
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/3001/gvwr.html
Thanks
Rush
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 2/25/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave wrote:
> It would be nice to be able to drive a little car, but at 6'8" tall
> and 350 Lbs, I gotta have more room.
I will say that my 1974 Datsun was pretty small inside.
But, size inside cars and trucks is pretty idiosyncratic. There are huge
SUVs that even I feel cramped in (and I'm only 5'6"). And there are
small cars that have huge amounts of room (my 1965 Corvair, for
example).
You simply have to "try one on" to see what fits. In some cases, just
moving the seat tracks back helps a lot.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Christopher Robison wrote:
> I've looked at what pictures I could find of the one very successful
> direct-drive setup I'm aware of (Wayland's White Zombie) and it appears
> that there's a custom-machined fitting that fits on the motor shaft, this
> bolts to a strange-looking, flat-mating U-joint on a short shaft with a
> male spline at the other end, which is supported by a crossmember and a
> what looks like a large pillow block. I would guess that from there to the
> rear end would be a pretty typical driveshaft setup.
>
> John, do I have this wrong?
Nope, got it exactly right....well, almost, the 'custom-machined fitting that
fits on the
motor shaft' isn't custom made, rather, it's an off-the-shelf item I got from a
driveline
shop. They are common in industrial electric motor drives that have to run
driveshafts.
For a while, I simply called it a '1 and 1/18 inch keyed shaft -to- universal
adaptor
hub'.
> I really wish I'd paid more attention on the
> occasions I've seen the car in person! Are such parts available, or was
> this all totally custom-made?
Remember the stories all about 'The Dutchman', the guy with the custom axle
machine shop
here in Portland, Dutchman Motorsports, the guy who built the trick rear end
setup now in
White Zombie? Anyway, when he and I were under the car, he explained to me that
the '1 and
1/18 inch keyed shaft -to- universal adapter hub' affixed to the rear motor's
shaft was
called a 'Dutchman'....cool, huh? He went on to explain, that when he first
started up his
machine shops years ago, they specialized in making dutchmans, hence, his
nickname 'The
Dutchman'. Anyhow, dutchmans are widely available in different hole spacing
arrangements
on the face side, so you can bolt stuff up to keyed electric motor and or
hydraulic torque
generator shafts.
Speaking of the dutchman in White Zombie....Tim and I are looking at that part
as being
the source of the car's incessant vibration problems. It fits a bit too loose
on the motor
shaft, and has about 2/1000 of a wobble to it. The keyway is also starting to
wear, as is
the keyway of the motor-to-motor adapter in between the front and rear
motor...just too
much power, I guess.
This is why I'm redesigning the motors. With tons of support and help from Jim
Husted, the
motors will be different from one another when finished in regards to their
shafts. The
front motor will no longer have a rear output shaft, as space is an all
important thing
for the mods being done and it hasn't been used anyway, so that motor's shaft
will only
exit the front of the motor, and the shaft will be splined. The rear motor
'will' have a
rear shaft, also splined to couple to the front motor via a female splined
solid coupler.
> Short of doing the above, I'm guessing all I might need is something that
> acts like the tail housing on a tranny, to support the output spline. This
> would require that I can mount the motor just right, which might be why
> John's using an additional U-joint (?)...
Interesting that you bring all this up, as it's very timely. The only reason
White Zombie
has a two piece driveline, is because with the old Ford nine inch rear axle
setup, the
input flange of the third member's pinion was offset 4 inches towards the
passenger
side....I bought the rear axle setup used from someone else's project and never
changed
it. In order to keep the driveline from rubbing against the tunnel wall on the
passenger
side, I had to use small diameter tubing. I also had to use really thick gauge
steel (read
that 'heavy') to handle the torque. Because it was so small in diameter and due
to the
long total driveline length, it required a center carrier bearing and extra U
joints, as
one long and small diameter driveline would have turned into twisted rubble.
However, now
that I have the all new Dutchman competition axle set up just right with the
pinion dead
center in the tunnel, I am going to a 4-5 inch diameter one piece aluminum
driveline...no
carrier bearing, no support brackets for it, and one less U joint. The biggest
change, is
the rear motor's front output shaft, the one that faces the rear end. It will
be a custom
made unit that is splined and that protrudes farther from the end bell. It will
mate into
the driveshaft's slip joint female splined section. The driveline will simply
slide onto
the rear motor shaft, then bolt up to the input flange of the rear
end....simple,
reliable, stronger, lighter, and hopefully, the absolute end to all the
vibration.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am trying to find the motor constants of the Etek motor so I can put them into
the EV Calculator; using the motor calculation page and the 48V curve at
EVParts, I figure c=3550, d=48, k=1.14, and n=1. No matter what I do, though, I
can't get (a) and (b) constants that give a correct output. Any ideas?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Y'all,
I just went for a late night doughnut run to the store that's about 1/2
mile away. When the pack is full, and I'm only going a mile, I can give
up the amps freely. It is so sweet!! For all of you that have driven a
1K+ amp Zilla/Orbital powered EV, (or any EV for that matter), the
feeling is awesome! I've got to get more people in the car for rides so
they can get the EV grin too. That smooth acceleration without having
to clutch on the takeoff is such a cool sensation. I used to love
driving the 200sx in its gas days, but this beats it hands down. Today,
I finally got the stereo wired up again...that makes it all the more fun.
For all of you in the process of converting an EV, keep it up. It will
get there, and you'll be writing us all about the driving experience.
For everyone else contemplating a conversion - it's worth it! Of course
the range issues are there, and it takes *tons* of time, dedication, and
money, but it's worth the sacrifices.
Still grinning from ear to ear after 1+ months of driving,
Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Renewable Energy for EVs-The Moral High Ground?
It seems to me that it would be difficult to charge EVs without the
grid. If you have renewables at home (I have 3kW of PV & no grid
connection for 13 years) you will not be able to charge because your EV
will be away from home. A renewable scheme designed for sufficiency in
spring & autumn (fall for you New World folk) will have XS in summer
generally speaking. This could be your credit for EV charging. It would
be nice to power ones EV from renewables at least net over a few years
but it will be expensive. I have a country property in a sunny part of
Victoria that has a much better solar regime than
Melbourne........anyway I have to go now. The men in white coats are at
the door.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Sunday, 27 February 2005 3:59 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: OT: Solar was Re: Battery Exchange
Net metering laws vary by state. In many cases the utilities throw up
as
many financial and legal barriers as they can. There are accordingly
some
PV users who "spin the meter backwards" clandestinely. This of course
is
illegal and, if done with the wrong gear, can result in the violator
being
responsible for electrocuting utility workers, killing or injuring
himself
or family members, and/or setting his house afire. Grid intertie PV is
not
something to casually fool around with.
If one wishes to purchase PV panels, there are many legitimate sources -
from installing dealers to cash-and-carry DIY suppliers - which provide
high
quality, long-lived panels suited to producing utility grade power. See
http://www.homepower.com for lots more information, a dizzying array of
ads
for dealers, and interesting classifieds.
All that said: I hate to be a nag (again), but please note that this
thread
has wandered off topic. Except as it applies directly to fueling an EV,
solar energy is more properly discussed on the Alternative Energy list.
There are many other suitable venues on the net, too - a Yahoo groups
search
for "solar energy" turns up almost 200 groups!
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents,
more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some
great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach
their hearts' desire at last, and the White House will be
adorned by a downright moron.
-- H L Mencken, 1920
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: Regenerating a series wound motor
> Lee
> Thank you for your informed views on series motors. It seems to me that
> if you were using a straight shunt wound dc motor (without interpoles or
> any other windings) then you have a situation similar to the series
> motor regenerating when forced into it by overexcitation or higher revs
> etc. Are we then saying that we can't let the dc motor generate either
> because of brush sparking? There may be solutions here anyway such as
> brush composition. I have also seen motors where the brush carrier can
> be moved to another position. This could be done using small actuators.
> Braking is only going to be a short time thing cw motoring.
> Can the standard buck converters work as boost converters too? My motor
> is a 9 incher & a DCP-1200 controller.
> David
>
Look folks the DCP-1200 Ratpor is NOT going to Regen. it's a simple buck
controller.
Yes if you are really good at controllers and motor designs you can MAKE it
happen.
But NOT with the current parts and controllers.
I run a AvDC 8 incher as a Generator in my Dyno, I drive it with a 8 incher
that is power from a Raptor 1200, that I helped build and design. SO.. I
know it can be done.
I have movable brushes on the GENerator end, they do not keep the arcing
down very well and I am taking on damage to the motor.
Do.. you can do this, but at a great cost and and with lots off power
electronics and controls.
Well the Buck controllers won't Boost, the freewheel diode has to be tied to
Batt+. and the control loop has to watch the current ramp up to a Max then
shut off the shorting action. The resulting positive pulse has to be wired
back to the Batt + rail.
Folks have tried this, and had mixed results. You really need a compound
wound motor that is designed to do this. Once you get all the swtich gear
and controls working , you might as well just do w 3 phase AC drive, it
would be easier.
Also take this from somebody who has made and driven a DC motor drive with
massive regen using a World War 2 aiplane Starter Generator. It had all
those nifty windings and control lines...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just clearing out some old sends, and came across
this...
Hey, did you know you can go to www.makestickers.com,
upload a picture of your choosing, or select theirs,
and design your own bumpersticker?
It's a hoot, and I've already done several!
--- James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Someone else on the list suggested a few weeks ago:
>
> Starve a terrorist, drive an electric vehicle.
>
> I still like this one and it is the one I'm going to
> make up for my car,
> It's going to be next to the one that says:
>
> 100% electric since 1959
>
> James
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
>
> There's nothing new under the sun, but there are
> lots of old things we don't
> know. - Ambrose Bierce
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland,
There is also a method for torch welding aluminum that utilizes a special
flux and goggles. I have heard that this leaves the aluminum nice and
malleable.
David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum and another question
My first battery boxes where made out of 0.25 inch thick aluminum plates.
There was two boxes which measure 40 inches square by 20 inches deep to hold
16 inch long 2.2 volt battery cells.
The aluminum of which I don't know what the grade is, but there was soft
enough, so it can be bend with a slight radius without cracking.
Two sides and the bottom was all in one piece with the other two sides
welded on. Because of the 0.25 thickness of the aluminum, there was no
problem of warping and heat sinking.
The aluminum was welded with Mig Welding, using a 0.035 aluminum wire using
helium gas. The welds are nice and smooth.
A aluminum angle that was 0.25 by 4 by 4 inches was welded on the bottom,
over the bottom weld bead and extends 4 inches from the box for mounting.
Another method of welding aluminum which I just learn last year, was a low
temperature aluminum welding on thin material, is call aluminum soldering.
You used aluminum flux coat rods or aluminum wire with a acetylene and
oxygen with a No. 1 or No. 2 torch tip.
Radiator shops used this method for welding aluminum radiators. This is the
only source, I can get the aluminum wire. Many welding shops do not know
about this type of welding.
Roland
W
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 4:46 AM
Subject: Welding Aluminum and another question
Rod Hower wrote:
I have no mechanical experience with Al, but the last
time I took a commuter plane all of the panels had
rivets. The panels may not be Aluminum, but they did
have rivets, not welds. Perhaps the mechanical
inclined could explain this.
Rod
One of the reasons for this is maintenence. A riveted panel can be thought
of as only semi-permanent. The rivets can be drilled out and the panel
removed for repairs or inspections. And since a lot of areas under panels on
aircraft have fuel and hydraulic lines under them, it's safer to drill out
rivets than grind out a section and weld it back. In many areas of the wing
it would be impossible. And from what I've learned from this thread about
welding aluminum, the results of welding the panels wouldn't always be
uniform and would involve a lot of rework or in-flight failures. Also, I
don't know how smooth a bead on aluminum can be made but rivets can be just
as smooth as the skin of the aircraft.
And while I have the attention of the aluminum experts, how thick does the
aluminum sheeting have to be to support eight (arranged 2 by 4) T-125s and
what type of aluminum should I use? The sides would need to be bent at 90
degree angles so it couldn't be too brittle. Thanks.
john
__________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Don Cameron wrote:
> >
> > Here is what I have come up with:
> > http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/BatteryStraps.JPG
what 's difference between braided tinned and braided crimped please ?
i don't see it looking at your pictures.
Is first braided crimped tinned and second strap braided crimped no tinned ?
if i understand right there is another solution to test: braided strap just
tinned (no copper) then drilled
seems to me simpler construction but probably less effective solution
(contact area are not perfectly flat)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 3:11 AM
Subject: RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
> I tested 2 types of straps (tinned and just crimped) as well as the
> flattened copper pipe, I ran each test 3 times. Two batteries were wired
in
> series using the strap/bar to be tested, with a 80Amp load. The current
was
> measured from a 500A shunt. The voltage drop was measured at the posts
> where the strap/bar was connected.
>
> Braided, tinned strap: 80Amp load, 1.9mV drop = 0.000024 ohms
> Braided, crimped strap: 80Amp load, 2.2mV drop (this strap is 0.25" longer
> than the other strap and copper bar) = 0.000028 ohms
> Copper Bar 80 Amp load, 1.8mV drop = 0.000023 ohms
>
> I estimate absolute max amperage draw of my 312V system will be 300Amps.
I
> will be using 6 of the straps in the packs (among other connectors). So
> these 6 straps will draw, at worst, P = I^2 x R = 300^2 x (6*0.000028) =
> 15.1 Watts
>
>
> Sounds not too bad...
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:09:44 -0800, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, this scheme has a problem at high motor rpm. The equation requires
> low field current to get Varmature = Vpack. But then you can only allow
> low armature current; thus low regen current.
>
> As the vehicle slows down, you need to increase Ifield to increase
> Varmature so it still matches Vpack. So, you can have more armature
> current, i.e. more regen current. In other words, you get the least
> regen at the highest speed, and the most at low speeds -- backwards of
> what you normally want.
Hi Lee, what I tried was to drive the field seperately, but leave it
in circuit with the armature. That way, the current in both always
balance, and generally always have the same value: whatever the small
conrtoller's current limit is set to. (80A in my case).
Or that was the theory anyway - although it slowed the car down I
didn't notice whether it was generating into the pack or at what
current!
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello David,
I think this is the last method I listed where you do used a torch and welding
goggles.
One thing, I forgot to add, is after you make your aluminum boxes, you should
coat them with a material that is acid resistance.
The first method, is to used expoxy paint, that does not need any primer. A
high gloss type will clean better than a flat type. The acid fumes effect it
some what.
The second method, is to take it to a place that does those bed liners for
pickups. A industrial fiberglass company near where I leave, does this. That
can mix the compounds in any color and spray it on very smooth, instead of a
rough surface.
The third and best method, is to have it porcelain coated as they do on
fiberglass shower stalls. I bought a sink and tub recoating kit and apply that
to the boxes. To get it to flow smoothly, I added more thinner to it.
The last method, stood up the best. The gloss white color is still a high
bright white color as the day I put it on back in 2000.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: David Chapman<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum and another question
Roland,
There is also a method for torch welding aluminum that utilizes a special
flux and goggles. I have heard that this leaves the aluminum nice and
malleable.
David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum and another question
My first battery boxes where made out of 0.25 inch thick aluminum plates.
There was two boxes which measure 40 inches square by 20 inches deep to hold
16 inch long 2.2 volt battery cells.
The aluminum of which I don't know what the grade is, but there was soft
enough, so it can be bend with a slight radius without cracking.
Two sides and the bottom was all in one piece with the other two sides
welded on. Because of the 0.25 thickness of the aluminum, there was no
problem of warping and heat sinking.
The aluminum was welded with Mig Welding, using a 0.035 aluminum wire using
helium gas. The welds are nice and smooth.
A aluminum angle that was 0.25 by 4 by 4 inches was welded on the bottom,
over the bottom weld bead and extends 4 inches from the box for mounting.
Another method of welding aluminum which I just learn last year, was a low
temperature aluminum welding on thin material, is call aluminum soldering.
You used aluminum flux coat rods or aluminum wire with a acetylene and
oxygen with a No. 1 or No. 2 torch tip.
Radiator shops used this method for welding aluminum radiators. This is the
only source, I can get the aluminum wire. Many welding shops do not know
about this type of welding.
Roland
W
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To:
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 4:46 AM
Subject: Welding Aluminum and another question
Rod Hower wrote:
I have no mechanical experience with Al, but the last
time I took a commuter plane all of the panels had
rivets. The panels may not be Aluminum, but they did
have rivets, not welds. Perhaps the mechanical
inclined could explain this.
Rod
One of the reasons for this is maintenence. A riveted panel can be thought
of as only semi-permanent. The rivets can be drilled out and the panel
removed for repairs or inspections. And since a lot of areas under panels on
aircraft have fuel and hydraulic lines under them, it's safer to drill out
rivets than grind out a section and weld it back. In many areas of the wing
it would be impossible. And from what I've learned from this thread about
welding aluminum, the results of welding the panels wouldn't always be
uniform and would involve a lot of rework or in-flight failures. Also, I
don't know how smooth a bead on aluminum can be made but rivets can be just
as smooth as the skin of the aircraft.
And while I have the attention of the aluminum experts, how thick does the
aluminum sheeting have to be to support eight (arranged 2 by 4) T-125s and
what type of aluminum should I use? The sides would need to be bent at 90
degree angles so it couldn't be too brittle. Thanks.
john
__________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> what 's difference between braided tinned and braided crimped please ?
> i don't see it looking at your pictures.
> Is first braided crimped tinned and second strap braided crimped no tinned ?
>
Don mentioned that tinning the copper with the strap already crimped wicks the
solder into the
strap, making the strap fairly rigid. Can you tin the copper, crimp it to the
strap, and then hit
it with a torch to make a solder connection between the copper and the strap?
Will this keep the
flexibility of the strap?
Don, what did you use for the straps?
I'm looking to make short (2") straps and need a flexible connection.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are very popular in Arizona and rust is nearly
non-exsistant in the Phoenix/Tuson area. No snow-no
salt an no close by oceans to place salt in the rain.
Many are still running but be put aside for newer
ones.
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John Wayland wrote [snip]
>
> Great stuff on the Datsun minitrucks, John. You are
> a fountain of wisdom
> on all things Datsun!
>
> One little detail that might help anyone
> contemplating converting one
> into a long-range EV, though. Where do you think one
> would FIND one in
> good enough condition to convert? Anywhere up here
> in the Rust Belt,
> they are long, long gone!
>
> I think it would be fascinating to see what one of
> them could do as a
> smaller version of Red Beastie.
> --
> Ring the bells that you can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
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