EV Digest 4146
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Warning sound for approaching EV
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: 3 phase PM-long and heading OT
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: New EV Dragster
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: power transmission (was: Re: NEDRA rule changes)
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Compound wound motors
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: NEDRA rule changes
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: New EV Dragster
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Compound wound motors
by Michael Shipway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Dave Cloud's Rules ideas
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: EVLN (pih: the solution is already with us)
by "Will" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Compound wound motors
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: SiC Schottkys
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Warning sound for approaching EV
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Dave Cloud's Rules ideas
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: EVLN (pih: the solution is already with us)
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Warning sound for approaching EV
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Looking for an appropriately electric horn for my truck, Euro train
style?
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EVS-21 Monaco April 4-7
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Warning sound for approaching EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Compound wound motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Why bother saving factory EV's????
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Warning sound for approaching EV
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Disturbing energy use.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to Al,
djsharpe wrote:
> A vehicle inspector warned that my EV (Diahatsu Charade) poses a risk to
> pedestrians cyclists because it is too quite. It needs according to him
> a continuous sound. I seek comments from other EV or hybrid users.
> Perhaps we could amplify the sound the brush gear makes or replicate the
> horn of a main line loco. What do you think?
> David
David, it's simple...install a kick-ass sound system! What could be more
appropriate for a
warning sound, then the beat of AC-DC playing 'High Voltage' in an EV?
:-)
See Ya....John Wayland
Blue Meanie, world's audio competition EV
(everybody knows when this EV approaches!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wish I could give you efficiency numbers for alternators. All I have is
output curves, and I can measure temperature manually as well. We build a
Delco unit that is totally enclosed that runs at 22amps @ 14.7 volts. There
is a Leece Neville that puts out about 30amps at 14.2 (I think, it has been
awhile). Neither of these units get too hot to touch. I wouldn't want to try
and run either of them to 40amps, as they are enclosed. On my test bench a
regular fan cooled alternator will not get to hot too touch, barely warm, at
40amps, even after an hour. Mind you, the more I think about it could be
displacing 600watts of heat. But even when we try and warm them up by
blocking the air inlets, we need to get them over 60amps of output to really
raise the temperature.
The older style GM alternators were considered to need 1hp for 22.9amps of
output, times the pulley ratio. Newer alternators are of course more
efficient than these. The square wire Denso units produce extremely well in
low rpm and I would think are one of the more efficient units out there. The
new Bosch SAE J180 mount units and the EcoAir are the only two units I know
of that have published efficiency ratings over 70%.
If you want I can send you a CS130ACSE and you can test it, give it a try.
If you already have the brackets and pulley system for the old style GM, it
will bolt right in. If it works and seems efficient enough, you can keep it,
if not send it back. No harm down for trying?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was going to vote for your dragster, but I live in
Ohio.
Here's the rules
WHO CAN ENTER: This Contest is open to automobile
owners who are legal residents of the State of
Illinois, 21 years of age and older as of 1/27/05.
This Contest is void outside the State of Illinois and
where prohibited by law. The following are not
eligible for the Contest: (1) employees and agents of
Allstate Insurance Company ("Allstate" or "Sponsor"),
Community-Centric Marketing ("CCM"), Not Traditional
Media ("NTM"), Seismicom, Inc., and their respective
parent, subsidiary, and affiliate companies, and
advertising and promotion agencies; (3) persons
providing support services to any sales agent
authorized to represent Sponsor or its parent,
subsidiary, or affiliate companies (whether those
persons are employed by agent or not); and (4) the
"immediate family members" and/or "household members"
of any of the persons set forth in (1) or (2) above.
"Immediate family members" shall mean parents,
stepparents, children, stepchildren, siblings or
spouses. "Household members" shall mean people who
share the same residence at least three months a year,
whether related or not.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hello to the EV world,
>
> The time has come to introduce ourselves as future
> players in the
> Electric Vehicle arena. Many of you know us from
> our past association
> with a great group of guys ... NetGain Technologies,
> LLC.
>
> What was "almost" common knowledge was NetGain's 18
> month association
> with NASA, conducting in-vehicle testing of very
> large "Supercapacitors"
> under a government research program. That testing
> taught us a heck of a
> lot, but kept us away from the race track for two
> full seasons.
>
> After the successful conclusion of the NASA research
> program, three of us
> decided to pursue the aspects of EVs that are a lot
> less like work.
>
> While NetGain is diligently working to improve what
> are already the best
> electric motors on the planet - the WarP Motors -
> and developing other
> areas of advanced EV technology, we decided to have
> fun.
>
> We built a new Battery Powered Dragster -
> "Aggravated Battery".
> Although it has not seen the track yet, we dream of
> good things. We are
> anxious for the Chicago weather to break - ushering
> in the start of the
> drag racing season here in the Midwest.
>
> Meanwhile, we have taken it to a car show held once
> a year at McCormick
> Place in Chicago. The International Show Car
> Association's "World of
> Wheels". We are pleased to say it took a First
> Place award. We think
> that is a great coupe, considering the fantastic
> vehicles on display. If
> you have never been to one if the ISCA's car shows
> ... go! You won't
> believe your eyes!
>
> Want to cast your vote for an electric vehicle?
> Allstate Insurance
> initiated a contest where you can vote for your
> favorite vehicle from the
> Chicago "World of Wheels" car show.
>
> Show Allstate that alternative fuel vehicles ARE
> part of mainstream
> America by voting for our electric vehicle. The
> car that wins with the
> most votes earns a $2,500 cash prize.
>
> Click on this link to see our car’s profile page.
>
>
http://www.allstateautopride.com/details.php?image_id=211
>
> Registration of a valid email address is required to
> vote. One vote
> permitted per person per email address. Voting
> period ends March 12th.
>
> We thank you for your vote. Of course, we live by
> the Chicago motto ...
> vote early and vote often :)
>
> As the race season progresses, we will keep the list
> advised of our
> progress (and failures). Eventually we will have a
> web page up, showing
> photos and general info about the vehicle and our
> guys.
>
> Hope to see you trackside.
>
> John Emde, Karl Klein and Kevin Zak
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a page with some simple electric motors and a rail gun that kids
could build.
http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/electro/railgun/railgun.html
________________
Andre' B.
At 08:52 PM 3/2/2005, you wrote:
Sam Uzi wrote:
> speaking of blue sky:
> would it be possible to xmit power via a plasma conduit? perhaps
> guide the plasma with a beam of light (would that work? dunno my
> high-energy physics well enough)
>
> ...so maybe not practical for a moving vehicle, but - more
> realistically - I've been wondering recently if it is possible to
> use a plasma arc to power a free-floating (eg: magnetically
> suspended) rotor...
Sounds sort of like a rail gun... an electrically powered cannon that
propels the "shell" with a moving magnetic or electric field.
They sell a lot of solar-powered car kits to schools and hobbyists. Most
come with utter junk for the solar panels and motors, so they barely
work even in bright sunlight. One way around this (so the kids don't
feel like a complete loser) is to shine a bright light on them, or use
handheld mirrors to concentrate sunlight enough to make them work.
As for your solar motor; I once put two solar cells on the arms of a
"windmill" that was mounted on the shaft of a small AC motor. The solar
cells were wired back-to-back to the motor coil. When you positioned it
so the sun only illuminated 1 solar cell at a time, it ran! The solar
cells were alternately in sun/shadow/sun/shadow as it turned, and so
produced the AC needed to run the motor.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Say I have my 12 HP compound wound motor wired for cumulative compound. Is
there any way to get any more HP from this motor with different wiring?
Disconnect the shunt field maybe? Before some one says to buy a series
motor, consider there are a heck of a lot of individuals out there that want
to build an EV but can not afford the price of the ADC motors and Zilla
controllers and labor of having some company do a conversion for them. An
old forklift motor does quite well for experimenting and learning and can be
picked up pretty cheap on ebay and other places.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: NEDRA rule changes
> AND (Not to perpetuate a silly idea) the technology already exist in
> electric subway trains. Seriously, though, this kind of discussion is
good,
> in that we are thinking outside the box, and that is where all the good
> ideas come from.
>
And we're on a roll here! Temporary catenery poles and lines, good use
for the "Gates" Arches after the Central Park Art Show, you may have seen
it? Thousands of orange plastic curtains/arches all OVER Central Park in
NYC, the're taking it down now, looked at it with that in mind<g>!Overhead
catenery works well, ask any Acela train , French TGV or Japanese Bullet out
there, they go FASTER than many dragsters, but don't get up there quite as
fast.And ya only need a quarter mile!"Cat" arches maybe every hundred feet?
Batteries maybe about halfway down the strip or maybe closer to the start?
Wired for power
Bob
> David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
> Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
> - Harold S.
> Hulbert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 4:27 PM
> Subject: RE: NEDRA rule changes
>
>
> > Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> Could you imagine getting a bill for eletric usage at end of race?
> >> Certainly create a focus on regen in the higher brackets :-)
> >
> > Not really... consider that even if a car managed to consume a full
> > 600kW for an entire 10s run, this only amounts to 1.67kWh, or about
> > $0.10 worth of electricity.
> >
> > Look at it another way, the slot cars wouldn't have batteries to
> > recharge, and so this would be the total energy consumed for a run (no
> > charger/chemcical efficiency to account for). At the present time, the
> > racers all have batteries that get recharged in the pits largely on the
> > dragstrip's dime from outlets provided free of charge (e.g. at
> > Woodburn); the total electricity consumption for the day isn't
> > significant enough to show up on the track owner's radar.
> >
> > Just think how many runs you could get in for the cost of a gallon of
> > high octane fuel! ;^>
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger.
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Rod and all
The contest rules apply to the ENTRANTS ONLY. Anyone can vote
from anywhere in the world via e-mail.
Hope this clears up any questions.
John
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 Rod Hower writes:
> I was going to vote for your dragster, but I live in
> Ohio.
> Here's the rules
>
> WHO CAN ENTER: This Contest is open to automobile
> owners who are legal residents of the State of
> Illinois, 21 years of age and older as of 1/27/05.
> This Contest is void outside the State of Illinois and
> where prohibited by law. The following are not
> eligible for the Contest: (1) employees and agents of
> Allstate Insurance Company ("Allstate" or "Sponsor"),
> Community-Centric Marketing ("CCM"), Not Traditional
> Media ("NTM"), Seismicom, Inc., and their respective
> parent, subsidiary, and affiliate companies, and
> advertising and promotion agencies; (3) persons
> providing support services to any sales agent
> authorized to represent Sponsor or its parent,
> subsidiary, or affiliate companies (whether those
> persons are employed by agent or not); and (4) the
> "immediate family members" and/or "household members"
> of any of the persons set forth in (1) or (2) above.
> "Immediate family members" shall mean parents,
> stepparents, children, stepchildren, siblings or
> spouses. "Household members" shall mean people who
> share the same residence at least three months a year,
> whether related or not.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Knopf wrote:
Say I have my 12 HP compound wound motor wired for cumulative
compound. Is there any way to get any more HP from this motor with
different wiring? Disconnect the shunt field maybe? Before some one
says to buy a series motor, consider there are a heck of a lot of
individuals out there that want to build an EV but can not afford the
price of the ADC motors and Zilla controllers and labor of having some
company do a conversion for them. An old forklift motor does quite
well for experimenting and learning and can be picked up pretty cheap
on ebay and other places.
A series (field) motor has great low speed torque, but poor speed
regulation. It'll spin faster and faster until either the load equals
the power given it, or something breaks.
A fixed field motor (w/ shunt or permanent magnet field) has poor
starting and low speed torque, but very good speed control. It will have
a fixed favorite speed for a given armature voltage, and once it is spun
up to that speed, it'll draw extra current to maintain that speed if the
load increases.
So.., as quoted from the link below:
"The DC compound motor is a combination of the series motor and the
shunt motor. It has a series field winding that is connected in series
with the armature and a shunt field that is in parallel with the
armature. The combination of series and shunt winding allows the motor
to have the torque characteristics of the series motor and the regulated
speed characteristics of the shunt motor."
Have a look at the following web site on basic motor theory:
http://zone.ni.com/devzone/conceptd.nsf/webmain/2817049333698AAD862568400051C24E
and for those that want to get into the heavier theory and the math, the
same sites as pages on motor calculations starting at:
http://zone.ni.com/devzone/conceptd.nsf/webmain/0BBFA53F0255EF8F8625681E0072D648
"Mad" Mike Shipway
- Free range programmer...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger, a slight correction. Woodburn has always given prize money as far as
I can remember which was back to the first race in 1997. We also give out
valuable product prizes besides just certificates. As far as sponsorship
goes. People do not sit around and wait for sponsorship. It is just as hard
work to get sponsorship as it is to build a competitive machine.Most
sponsorship only comes in the form of product or a discount on product. The
quickest EV in the world has gotten very little sponsorship over the years
until recently. It has been his sweat equity and hard work at his business
that has made him competitive. What you call high dollar vehicles in NEDRA
palls in comparison to the money hobbyists put into their weekend gas racers
in this country. Most people in this country spend more money on a new car
than the cost of building a highly competitive EV. For a cost comparison you
can build a top competitive fuel rail dragster for only several million
dollars or you can build one of the quickest EVs on the entire planet for
the cost of a new car. Please let us have some perspective here. The fact is
we are an oil based economy and the EV Racing movement here is but a spec on
a fly's behind.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA President
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 6:30 PM
Subject: RE: Dave Cloud's Rules ideas
Ralph Merwin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What I don't inderstand is why anyone would want to enter
this type of race. What's the incentive? Do the racers win
cash in each division?
Same reason they would want to enter any NEDRA race: to try to set a
world record in their class.
That is the only incentive to race under NEDRA rules presently, there
are no cash prizes, just glory.
I think the additional incentive that $$ classes adds is that you can
show up at the track knowing that you are racing against vehicles built
with similar constraints as you faced building yours.
Let's face it, where is the incentive for people to go out and build a
vehicle that would end up competing against Maniac Mazda, Gone Postal,
White Zombie or the KillaCycle in order to win a record when setting a
record is the only (official) reward one gets?
The only reason for singling these vehicles out is that they all happen
to be fairly high dollar undertakings that most hobbiests simply can't
compete with. We can't all get sponsorship from a battery company or
motor company, or controller company and this makes it difficult to
compete with teams that can afford multiple motors and controllers, or
batteries the rest of us can't.
I certainly think there is an obvious incentive to see if you can build
the quickest 120V conversion for $5k or less, for instance, vs seeing
that the 120V class record is held by a multi-motored, perhaps
multi-controllered vehicle that you simply cannot compete with on a $5k
budget and therefore not bothering to try.
I think people are mistakenly focusing of the 'claimer' portion of the
$$ classes suggestion rather than on the $$ classes themselves. The
'claimer' aspect is merely a way to encourage/ensure that people are
honest about the class they compete in. It isn't meant to add/remove
incentive.
Cheers,
Roger.
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think this brings up an excellent point: It's not just dependence on
foreign energy sources that's the problem (although it is a big one); it's
also dependence on *fossil* fuels instead of renewables.
Of course, using methane hydrates from under the ocean floor and natural gas
will upset the crust/atmosphere carbon balance just as surely as burning
crude oil will. Doesn't matter whether you convert it to alcohol, hydrogen,
gasoline or diesel -- it matters that it came from a carbon sink in the
ground.
On the other hand, growing corn for ethanol is basically a net zero carbon
balance, since the plants remove CO2 from the air. Turkeys too, I guess.
Just don't be feeding your corn (or turkeys) any petroleum-based fertilizer
and everything will turn out okay.
-- WB
-----Original Message-----
From: Reverend Gadget [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 2:32 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EVLN(pih: the solution is already with us)
Read this article for an even better source of "oil".
far better than pulling energy from any of our
existing carbon sinks. Much less effect on greenhouse
gases.
Gadget
http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Anything-Into-Oil1may03.htm
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I realize all that, I have read it over and over again, I was looking for
some experience "Out of the Box" on a compound wound motor. Say I disconnect
the shunt leads, would the compound motor speed up like a series motor? I
have tried disconnecting the shunt leads under load (I had this motor in a
42' Yacht), I even had a switch on the bridge to do this, but could not tell
much difference, just slightly more amps. I thought maybe I might be missing
something that someone with a lot of experience on compound motors might
know about. What about adjusting the brushes, would this help increase HP
when adjusted at full load, no load? I currently have the motor in a 1959
Berkeley. Direct drive, no tranny. 400 amps on take off at 48 or 96 Volts.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Shipway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Compound wound motors
Jack Knopf wrote:
Say I have my 12 HP compound wound motor wired for cumulative compound.
Is there any way to get any more HP from this motor with different
wiring? Disconnect the shunt field maybe? Before some one says to buy a
series motor, consider there are a heck of a lot of individuals out there
that want to build an EV but can not afford the price of the ADC motors
and Zilla controllers and labor of having some company do a conversion
for them. An old forklift motor does quite well for experimenting and
learning and can be picked up pretty cheap on ebay and other places.
A series (field) motor has great low speed torque, but poor speed
regulation. It'll spin faster and faster until either the load equals the
power given it, or something breaks.
A fixed field motor (w/ shunt or permanent magnet field) has poor starting
and low speed torque, but very good speed control. It will have a fixed
favorite speed for a given armature voltage, and once it is spun up to
that speed, it'll draw extra current to maintain that speed if the load
increases.
So.., as quoted from the link below:
"The DC compound motor is a combination of the series motor and the shunt
motor. It has a series field winding that is connected in series with the
armature and a shunt field that is in parallel with the armature. The
combination of series and shunt winding allows the motor to have the
torque characteristics of the series motor and the regulated speed
characteristics of the shunt motor."
Have a look at the following web site on basic motor theory:
http://zone.ni.com/devzone/conceptd.nsf/webmain/2817049333698AAD862568400051C24E
and for those that want to get into the heavier theory and the math, the
same sites as pages on motor calculations starting at:
http://zone.ni.com/devzone/conceptd.nsf/webmain/0BBFA53F0255EF8F8625681E0072D648
"Mad" Mike Shipway
- Free range programmer...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Allen wrote:
> for power conversion with a higher PWM frequency, they start to make
> sense. 300V parts with some MOSFETs might be worth investigation for
> some DC-DC converters or a motor that has a very high fundamental
> frequency and not a lot of current.
But, reverse recovery in a diode is not loss per se. It is if you hard
switch, so a useless pulse of current shoots thru both the MOSFET and
diode. But high frequency, high efficiency designs don't do this anyway.
They use resonant or quasiresonant soft switching, or lossless snubbers,
or other techniques to effectively eliminate these losses even with
normal diodes.
The reverse recovery current in a schottky diode is charging a
capacitor, which is a lossless event. It only becomes a loss if your
circuit simply dumps or burns up the energy stored in that capacitor.
The only attraction I see with these SiC diodes is their ability to
operate at extremely high temperatures. This makes them attractive for
spacecraft and certain military hardware that must operate at these
temperatures. But I don't see EVs in their future.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Sharpe asks:
> I seek comments from other EV or hybrid users.
> Perhaps we could amplify the sound the brush gear makes or
> replicate the horn of a main line loco. What do you think?
Every good question deserves another.
Why settle for one sound?
With an onboard PC you should be able to play whatever you feel like when
you go down the road---tempered by the legal sound limits of course.
When in downtown traffic, join the crowd: boombox mode.
When passing cars: mainline steam locomotive
When cruising neighborhoods: classic old aircooled VW 'ping ping ping'
Context-sensitive vehicle sounds...hmm..this could be fun!
-MT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Thompson wrote:
> >Also any vehicle in the claimer division can be purchased at
> the end of
> >the
> >race not just the winning vehicle. This still excludes the
> unclaimable
> >division which no one can purchase ever.
>
> What would probably happen in practice is that guys (and
> gals) in the same money bracket would just swap cars around,
> which could be enjoyable in its own way. Victor could show up
> at Woodburn and take the Zombie home that night, while
> Wayland gets to play with AC motors and Hondas for a few months.
Hi David,
Having been involved in professional racing (though not where claiming rules
were in place), my take on what would happen is a little different.
Money can make you fast, but not always. Our modestly-financed team was
running Kawasaki KZ1000s (in the AMA Superbike series) and we beat the
Kawasaki factory team for the championship. Ingenuity counts. And it's
really hard to put a dollar value on it. In EV racing I believe ingenuity
would count even more, because the application of electric propulsion to
drag racing is still pretty young.
Wining becomes a mix of money, how well you do your homework and how
creative you are. I understand completely why Dennis Berube would refuse to
enter a claiming race. Not only would your hardware and your time be gone,
so would your innovations and creativity. Of course, there also exists the
likelihood that the claimer would run your car just as you left it and do as
well at first, but then as he has to keep it up he would lose ground. He
wouldn't know what's important and what's not, how it must be maintained,
what *has* to be included with that else, etc. He wouldn't get your history
or understanding of the car. Claiming a car only gets you so much.
Running in a claiming class is a different kettle of fish. It can make
sense when the technology has become fairly mature to add some interest. It
can also make sense to create new interest for people who'd like to race but
just can't invest huge amounts. I believe if a claiming class was added to
NEDRA, the most interest would be in the lowest-dollar range. That could be
a very good thing. Several people slapping together a $5k rail or
resurrecting an old door-slammer could actually get lots more people
involved. But the claiming class(es) should be in addition to the present
ones.
Because claiming classes require a different sort of mindset, I think most
people would not consider running what they already have. It's more
suitable to those who would think, "Y'know, I bet I could do some damage in
the $5k rail class if I dropped that old Presto in a quickie frame. Hmmm,
what else would I need?" If you go in thinking your car might be claimed,
you take a different approach than you would otherwise. And FWIW, actually
claiming a car is not that common. In most cases it's considered a sort of
extreme measure, but is exercised often enough to keep people honest.
I think it bears consideration. I personally think it could be an
interesting addition to the present classes, without taking anything from
them. I personally don't have time to get back into racing, but if I did
I'd be far more likely to build a low-buck claimer than risk my daily driver
or invest in a "real" racer.
HTH,
Chris
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Please remember Brazil, they've been growing sugar cane for years, and run
their cars on alcohol, it works great, the only inconvenience is that their
cities stink (literally, they smell wierd ). Even though they claim that the
only residue of alcohol combustion is water.
But all in all, it has been a drain to the brazilian govt. They had to give
grants to the sugar cane plantations, and the govt funds part of the cost of
the alcohol to the end user, it has been a bad deal after all. The real
issue here is that electric power seems to be the cheaper (up to now)
alternative energy to fossil fuels. Provided that it's generated on
hidroelectric plants, because most of our countries still burn fossil fuels
to generate electricity. I guess we're just going to have to wait until oil
runs out.
But, all in all it's good to have a bunch of "freaks" ready for that day, it
raminds me of amateur radio stations, everybody laughs at them until a
national emergency comes, communications are then established by those
"wierdos" with large antennaes at home, so this will happen for sure with
EV's, they will laugh at them until oil runs out, then govts will start
calling in all the "wierdos", to make vehicles for them.
And in that day, 80 miles per charge will not seem that short won't it ?
Ivo.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de Will
Enviado el: jueves, 03 de marzo de 2005 14:15
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: RE: EVLN (pih: the solution is already with us)
I think this brings up an excellent point: It's not just dependence on
foreign energy sources that's the problem (although it is a big one); it's
also dependence on *fossil* fuels instead of renewables.
Of course, using methane hydrates from under the ocean floor and natural gas
will upset the crust/atmosphere carbon balance just as surely as burning
crude oil will. Doesn't matter whether you convert it to alcohol, hydrogen,
gasoline or diesel -- it matters that it came from a carbon sink in the
ground.
On the other hand, growing corn for ethanol is basically a net zero carbon
balance, since the plants remove CO2 from the air. Turkeys too, I guess.
Just don't be feeding your corn (or turkeys) any petroleum-based fertilizer
and everything will turn out okay.
-- WB
-----Original Message-----
From: Reverend Gadget [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 2:32 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EVLN(pih: the solution is already with us)
Read this article for an even better source of "oil".
far better than pulling energy from any of our
existing carbon sinks. Much less effect on greenhouse
gases.
Gadget
http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Anything-Into-Oil1may03.htm
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have heard that robots in industrial plants in japan play classical tunes
to warn workers of their approach, why not play mozart or beethoven while
coasting down the street ?
ivo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de Myles Twete
Enviado el: jueves, 03 de marzo de 2005 14:39
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: RE: Warning sound for approaching EV
David Sharpe asks:
> I seek comments from other EV or hybrid users.
> Perhaps we could amplify the sound the brush gear makes or
> replicate the horn of a main line loco. What do you think?
Every good question deserves another.
Why settle for one sound?
With an onboard PC you should be able to play whatever you feel like when
you go down the road---tempered by the legal sound limits of course.
When in downtown traffic, join the crowd: boombox mode.
When passing cars: mainline steam locomotive
When cruising neighborhoods: classic old aircooled VW 'ping ping ping'
Context-sensitive vehicle sounds...hmm..this could be fun!
-MT
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My S-10 has a very anemic single tone horn. The stock unit. I have
been contemplating upgrading, but I want an appropriate sound for an
electric vehicle.
I seem to remember hearing the horn of a European electric railway
engine on a film or documentary. I think that it was a high pitched
minor second, very attention getting.
Does any one know of a source for an after market version of a horn with
this sound? I was thinking that Bob Rice might have come across one,
him being an electric train guy.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
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--- Begin Message ---
Is anyone going to Monaco? I could be a reporter again if anyone wants to send
me :-) Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
djsharpe wrote:
> A vehicle inspector warned that my EV (Diahatsu Charade) poses
> a risk to pedestrians cyclists because it is too quiet. It needs
> according to him a continuous sound. I seek comments from other
> EV or hybrid users.
Well, he is an inspector. Some inspectors are critics, and aren't happy
unless they find something to criticise. If there isn't anything, they
will make something up. If you find you are dealing with this type of
personality, then put a "red herring" in your design for them to find
and complain about, and that you can easily remove to make them happy.
:-)
On the actual problem -- lack of noise. He is correct that some people
depend on the noise from cars to warn them. They probably shouldn't, as
some cars are already very quiet. But, they do. I have startled
pedestrians many times with my EVs and Toyota Prius when a car they
though was off or parked moved!
The main answer is defensive driving. You (the driver) simply have to
watch out for pedestrians.
On noisemakers: I haven't added them on purpose, but most of my EVs have
had something that makes at least a little noise. My present EV has a
Curtis 1231C controller, which makes a slight whistle when it first
starts. My previous EV had a blower for cooling the traction motor that
sounded like a normal ICEs radiator fan motor. These sounds were
sufficient to warn people that the vehicle was in use.
I think the whistle is actually more effective than the fan noise. The
whistle is not loud, but it is distinctive. People notice unusual
sounds; otherwise they just fade into the background and will be
ignored.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Jack Knopf wrote:
> Say I have my 12 HP compound wound motor wired for cumulative
> compound. Is there any way to get any more HP from this motor
> with ifferent wiring? Disconnect the shunt field maybe?
Hi Jack,
A compound wound motor is more versatile than a series motor -- you can
do more with it to adjust its torque/speed/hp curves.
At what speed do you want more horsepower? If you want it at low rpm,
you strengthen the influence of the series field (probably by reducing
the shunt field current). If you want more HP at high rpm, then weaken
the series field (use the shunt field to control power).
Keep in mind that if you want more HP out, you have to put more HP in.
That means more amps from your battery. The controller must be able to
deliver more amps, too. The motor will also generate more heat, so you
have to improve its cooling.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Why bother saving Factory EV's when you can convert a VW to electric power
for around $2,000.00. I've been looking at the kit from
http://www.e-volks.com/about.html and the simplicity & logic plus the fact
that this would be a one weekend project makes me think that a simple plan
that could be followed by many people might be more powerful than support
from the big auto manufacturers. Just think if every conversion had a sign
on it saying to hell with big auto manufactruers I built this electric car
for 2k. Ask me how. Once people found out how siimple, practical &
efficient electric is a movement might be started. The VW is great because
here in the west and many other places (where they don't rust) there are
thousands of VW's in driveways collecting dust and guess what. They have no
motors. It is so easy to pop the motor out many owners take out the motor
resolved to fix it and wind up not doing anything because of the DMV saying
these are gross polluters. Many of these cars are in good condition with no
motor. Perfect for EV conversion. I think I could with very little in the
way of tools other than a drill make my own adapter. VW's are light and
shipping back east wouldn't be too bad. They are cute and fun to drive.
There is a huge business providing aftermarket parts for the myriad VW's
still running. Lets start a movement. Lets support something that an
average person can do. The VOLTSWAGEN. For people that want more range,
power or room the kit can be modified to use two motors or a more powerful
motor. A VW bus or transporter could be converted but these are more
valuable as collectables so the price goes up. Backyard mechanics could
turn out 5 of these a week creating jobs and people that didn't want to get
dirty could just buy one. What a great thing to do to take a resource that
is already there, that pollutes and turn it into a useful, and clean
transportation tool.
What you need:
VW BUG(or any rear engine VW, this includes exotic kit cars) to 1978
Kit http://www.e-volks.com/about.html $1495.00 Adapter only is $595.00 and
use your own parts. (I have no relation to this company)
Six 6v Golfcar batteries. 30 dollars used. New 55 to 70 dollars
One day work. Sweat equity.
Optional battery racks to put batteries in engine compartment or under
hood(under hood the gas tank can be used if you cut the top off)
More powerful versions using two motors and more batteries.
What you get:
A simple, practical & inexpensive vehicle that will go 20 to 30 miles on a
charge & have a 45mph top speed. Perfect for city use.
With modifications beyond the kit longer range and speed are available at a
price.
Lawrence Rhodes
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:17 AM
Subject: Warning sound for approaching EV
A vehicle inspector warned that my EV (Diahatsu Charade) poses a risk to
pedestrians cyclists because it is too quite. It needs according to him
a continuous sound. I seek comments from other EV or hybrid users.
Perhaps we could amplify the sound the brush gear makes or replicate the
horn of a main line loco. What do you think?
David
I'd ignore the inspector's comment unless he refuses to let you pass
inspection without a noise maker. That seems unlikely because surely
there's no law requiring noise. Being quiet isn't unique to EVs.
Modern ICEs are very quiet too except when accelerating. Their
sound is often masked by traffic noise and even wind noise.
Pedestrians and cyclists who depend on hearing approaching autos
and don't look are probably all dead already. Then there are those
who listen to a radio or CD player and couldn't hear a locomotive
or fire engine coming.
Quietness was one of the things I appreciated about my EV when I
had one. I can't imagine wanting to make an EV louder.
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I just checked my Electravan and the SOC meter read 89%. It had been
sitting in Garage 6 hours after charging . The temp there is 65°.
Yesterday the meter went down to 90% just coasting down a hill. I
frequently go 5 or so miles and I am down 50%. The car seems to
effortlessly glide along at 50 amps or less. What could be going on? I
thought I could go 30 miles and the SOC would be 50%. What could be
draining the pack? It loses voltage just sitting there. My golfcart never
did this. It's SOC stayed up till I drove. Same with all my other
EV's........
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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