EV Digest 4165
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Insight aerodynamics (was GM Starts Hauling Away the First of 78 EV1s)
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Electric boat controls
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Electric boat controls
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: AC Bandsaw motor questions
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: potbox tolerance
by "Maki, Garret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) chatting with GM
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Pipe dreams - 1,000 mile EV (was Re: Introduction)
by David Navas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: potbox tolerance
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Tire pressure for lower rolling resistance?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Tire pressure for lower rolling resistance?
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Bryan B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) 3000W ceramic heater setup
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Jeep EV Update (New Controller!)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: GM Starts Hauling Away the First of 78 EV1s
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 600 Volt limit?
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Dave Cloud's Rules ideas
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: BB-600 NiCad Cells
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Electric boat controls
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Gary and All,
--- Gary Graunke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm not sure the Insight will quite catch the EV1,
> but as the most
> efficient car you can actually buy, it comes pretty
> close.
A great little car that will become a collectors
item for those kept stock. It's Alum frame means it
won't rust out either.
>
> I also rented a (Panasonic lead-acid) EV1 and drove
> it from LA to UC
> Santa Barbara, about 100 miles one way.
>
> I've also converted an Insight, and have been
> driving it for about 2
> years. The underbody has composite panels under most
> of the bottom, but
> there is a part down the middle where the hot
> tailpipe was that is not
> covered. So there is definitely a bit more
> areodynamic gain to be had.
Probably not that much though easy to put on some
cloroplast and find out.
> While I'm using the orginal radiator for water
> cooling for the motor and
> inverter, I could block off most of it--only the
> size of a motorcyle
> radiator is needed. I bet a tail would make it
> better as well.
I'd block it completely, remove the raditor and
run some alum tube heatsinked to a frame member or 2
will easily cool it enough.
An air dam up front and side ones may help more.
>
> While I haven't done much driving at freeway speeds
> (most so far has
> been 65 mph), I'm very pleased with the efficiency.
> It gets about 6-8
> mi/kwh for normal driving 35-45 mph. About 5 mi/kwh
> at 55 mph, and
> almost 10 mi/kwh driving around the block at school
> zone speeds (20-25
> mph).
I'd have thought it would do better at speed but
it's heavy for an alum framed car.
My E-woody gets about 100wt-hrs/mile about the
same size frontal area at 45 mph but only 1,000lbs and
3 wheels. It's not opimized aero wise though probably
.28-.30 CD
Thanks for the data points,
jerry dycus
>
> I'm trying to keep it light as I convert it. The
> biggest problem is the
> low weight capacity. However, as far as efficiency,
> its among the best.
> I think only John Bryan's VW Ghia does better.
>
> Gary
>
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
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--- Begin Message ---
I doubt a band clamp would work very well, since my
understanding is that it wouldn't do a very good job preventing rotation,
and there's really nothing else in the engine compartment to which one
could mount the motor.
The torque reaction in a 914 is around the driveshafts, so you really just
need to support the end of the motor vertically. I'm trying to remember how
we did it in No.13. I remember replacing the heavy Porsche front mounting
beam with a welded tube arrangement (part of our continuous efforts to keep
the wight down), but I can't quite remomber how it was atattched to the
motor and I don't think I've got any pictures. I spent enough time lying
underneath that damn car, you'd think I'd remember.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about tacking some nuts to the outside of the motor case? They could
take the place of the tapped holes you don't have.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Apollonio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
Thanks for your response.
The mount is a 90-degree welded steel piece with angle pieces on the sides
to add rigidity. The engine/tranny combo in the 914 has a total of four
bolts holding it in the car -- two on the far end of the transmission at
the rear of the car, and this piece, at the front of the motor ("front"
meaning the part of the motor closest to the front of the car). It's
definitely needed to hold the motor up, though *maybe* two tranny bolts
could hold it temporarily if they were tight enough. I doubt a band clamp
would work very well, since my understanding is that it wouldn't do a very
good job preventing rotation, and there's really nothing else in the
engine compartment to which one could mount the motor. I would have a
very tough time trying to machine a proper support that would attach to a
band clamp, but if it turns out that's the only solution...
-Ben
On Mar 8, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Dave wrote:
Can you use a band clamp (Similar to a hose clamp) to attach the motor
case to the bracket? Does the bracket support weight or is it simply an
anti-rotation mount? Could you weld studs to the motor case to line up
with the holes in the bracket?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Apollonio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:25 AM
Subject: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
*sigh* Yet another bump in the road to having an electric vehicle...
I was all set to hoist my 9" ADC into my Porsche 914 this week so that I
could design my battery boxes around it. I've bolted on my adapter
plate from Electro Automotive and went to bolt on the mounting bracket
(also from electro auto), which attaches to the tail end of the motor
and a cross-bar in the engine compartment, when I discovered that my
motor has no mounting holes.
The aft end of the motor (the end opposite the transmission; the end
with the commutator) has a tail shaft, four bolts that hold the face
onto the motor, four *tiny* holes (1/16th inch?), and no places to
attach the mount using a pair of 3/8" bolts. Even the little tiny holes
aren't spaced correctly to match up with my electro auto adapter. Until
today, I had thought I was just supposed to take out two of the bolts
that mount the aluminum face of the motor to the rest of the case and
replace them with longer ones, but alas, I was quite wrong, as those
holes don't line up either.
Has anyone else run into this problem? Any suggestions? I'm not a
machinist and I don't have the right tools to drill and tap the holes
myself.
If people need pictures, let me know and I'll go take some.
Thanks
-Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks
I have been looking for a while now to find a control unit that will do what
builders want it to do in an economy type eboat application.
Builders want to use an Alltrax or Curtis controller with either a PM or
series motor. Reversing contactors will be used.
I am looking for a control that can work like a single axis joystick,
forward/neutral/reverse.
It would need to provide 0-5K potentiometer input to the controller in both
directions, and have some type of switching device (like two microswitches)
that can actuate a reversing contactor.
It would be nice if it was tough enough to survive in a marine environment.
You would think something like this would be commonly available. Maybe I
just haven't looked in the right place yet.
Is this the right place? :^D
Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another thought. Can you use a crossmember, from one longitudinal member to
the other, and support the free end of the motor with this? Please excuse me
not being familier with the inside of the VW 914
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Apollonio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
Thanks for your response.
The mount is a 90-degree welded steel piece with angle pieces on the sides
to add rigidity. The engine/tranny combo in the 914 has a total of four
bolts holding it in the car -- two on the far end of the transmission at
the rear of the car, and this piece, at the front of the motor ("front"
meaning the part of the motor closest to the front of the car). It's
definitely needed to hold the motor up, though *maybe* two tranny bolts
could hold it temporarily if they were tight enough. I doubt a band clamp
would work very well, since my understanding is that it wouldn't do a very
good job preventing rotation, and there's really nothing else in the
engine compartment to which one could mount the motor. I would have a
very tough time trying to machine a proper support that would attach to a
band clamp, but if it turns out that's the only solution...
-Ben
On Mar 8, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Dave wrote:
Can you use a band clamp (Similar to a hose clamp) to attach the motor
case to the bracket? Does the bracket support weight or is it simply an
anti-rotation mount? Could you weld studs to the motor case to line up
with the holes in the bracket?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Apollonio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:25 AM
Subject: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
*sigh* Yet another bump in the road to having an electric vehicle...
I was all set to hoist my 9" ADC into my Porsche 914 this week so that I
could design my battery boxes around it. I've bolted on my adapter
plate from Electro Automotive and went to bolt on the mounting bracket
(also from electro auto), which attaches to the tail end of the motor
and a cross-bar in the engine compartment, when I discovered that my
motor has no mounting holes.
The aft end of the motor (the end opposite the transmission; the end
with the commutator) has a tail shaft, four bolts that hold the face
onto the motor, four *tiny* holes (1/16th inch?), and no places to
attach the mount using a pair of 3/8" bolts. Even the little tiny holes
aren't spaced correctly to match up with my electro auto adapter. Until
today, I had thought I was just supposed to take out two of the bolts
that mount the aluminum face of the motor to the rest of the case and
replace them with longer ones, but alas, I was quite wrong, as those
holes don't line up either.
Has anyone else run into this problem? Any suggestions? I'm not a
machinist and I don't have the right tools to drill and tap the holes
myself.
If people need pictures, let me know and I'll go take some.
Thanks
-Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Get a friend that's handy with tools, he'll have a drill and some taps,
don't worru, bummer it does not have mounts, in all the pics of conversions
I've seen, I always wondered about the mounting of the motors, since I did
not see any mounting bolts or brackets.
BTW while you are at it, mount it in rubber, it will help to dampen the
torque when you accelerate.
ivo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de Ben Apollonio
Enviado el: martes, 08 de marzo de 2005 16:26
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
*sigh* Yet another bump in the road to having an electric vehicle...
I was all set to hoist my 9" ADC into my Porsche 914 this week so that
I could design my battery boxes around it. I've bolted on my adapter
plate from Electro Automotive and went to bolt on the mounting bracket
(also from electro auto), which attaches to the tail end of the motor
and a cross-bar in the engine compartment, when I discovered that my
motor has no mounting holes.
The aft end of the motor (the end opposite the transmission; the end
with the commutator) has a tail shaft, four bolts that hold the face
onto the motor, four *tiny* holes (1/16th inch?), and no places to
attach the mount using a pair of 3/8" bolts. Even the little tiny
holes aren't spaced correctly to match up with my electro auto adapter.
Until today, I had thought I was just supposed to take out two of the
bolts that mount the aluminum face of the motor to the rest of the case
and replace them with longer ones, but alas, I was quite wrong, as
those holes don't line up either.
Has anyone else run into this problem? Any suggestions? I'm not a
machinist and I don't have the right tools to drill and tap the holes
myself.
If people need pictures, let me know and I'll go take some.
Thanks
-Ben
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 04/03/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Additionally on this subject...
I usually tell folks to use an existing dual-cable control hooked up to two
Curtis PB-6s.
This effectively keeps the sensitive devices away from the salt water.
Many builders are starting from scratch (and/or need it to be ridiculously
simple) and want something all in one unit that doesn't have to be
assembled.
Just wanted to clarify this further.
Thanks again for any ideas/advice.
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush,
Here's a 5HP, 220V motor for $120:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3068
I have one of these on my old planer and it works OK. Sometimes they
go on sale - I got mine for $80.
Patrick
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3/8/05 11:40:00 AM >>>
Hi,
This is not an EV question, but it does have to do with AC motors and
controllers, so I thought that someone might be able to answer my
questions.
I just got a old bandsaw (Moak, 36 inch, made in 1967). It has a Baldor
3 phase, 5 HP, 230/460V motor on it, with a GE 300 In line Mag starter
switch. I don't have 3 phase, so I can get a static phase converter for
about $125 from andersonconverters.com. But it will only give me about 3
HP instead of the 5 HP of the motor, I also understand that it will
really use amps. Or I can trade out the motor for a new/used 5 hp, 220 V
motor. It is a direct drive with a keyed shaft, so I might need a shaft
adapter.
Which is my best option? Use the existing motor and get a static
converter or get a new 1 phase motor?
Thanks for the help,
Rush
Tucson AZ
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.4 - Release Date: 3/7/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave, I've only been taking about the full on state. The throttle still
closes all the way, so when it is off, it is off and no current is coming
out.
I want to tweak the throttle curve a little because I feel like it doesn't
really go until it's twisted a good amount. Wait, I guess that won't work
since if I remember right there is a actually a mechanical problem where the
resistance didn't start changing until the good bit into the twist. It may
have been designed this way to have a safe margin where it is off as the
grip is in its rest position.
Still, as I turn it, it feels like "nothing, nothing, Bam here we go."
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 2:07 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: potbox tolerance
Wouldn't the lower final resistance mean that the motor still gets a little
juice even when all the way off?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maki, Garret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: potbox tolerance
>I am using an Alltrax. I found the manual and in case anyone else was
> wondering it states full on at 4.7k.
> Too bad, I thought I might have found some free horsepower hiding, guess
> not. Thanks for the help.
> -Garret
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:31 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: potbox tolerance
>
> Maki, Garret wrote:
>> I have a Magura twist grip pot for my motorcycle. I measured it the
>> other day and it is actually a 4.7k ohm pot. Should I be concerned
>> that I am not getting fully to 5K?
>
> The Curtis controllers specify 4.4k as "full throttle", so you should be
> ok. I'm not sure about other brands of controller.
> --
> "The two most common elements in the universe
> are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I called GM's Director of Communications Chris Preuss
today at 202-775-5008 and he picked up the phone. I
was surprised by how much time he was willing to spend
on the phone with me talking about the EV1s in
Burbank. If you call, be prepared to have a nice, long
chat with him. Ask him questions. Challenge his
statements. Have fun.
Of course, that exasperated him at times, but not
enough for him to hang up the phone. For instance, he
said GM had made a good faith effort to market the EV1
and had spent "over 100 times the amount per vehicle
to market the EV1" as it did for other GM vehicles. I
pointed out that this was not a fair comparison,
because so few EV1s were produced, so of course ANY
costs per vehicle would be higher compared with costs
for the hundreds of thousands of other GM vehicles. I
asked him instead to tell me the dollar amount that GM
spent to market the EV1, either per car or overall. He
said he'd have to ask Ken Stewart for those figures.
So, if you call Chris Preuss, ask him to get those
numbers from Ken Stewart and perhaps say you'll call
back to find out what they are.
He did say all the calls and letters are being "heard
at the highest levels of the company."
He said GM has no plans to make a plug-in hybrid, even
though the company sees hybrids as part of the future.
GM sees the rest of the future as hybrid fuel cell
cars, and when I started talking about how hydrogen
makes no sense for individual transport, Chris said,
"I could scientifically blow that argument out."
So I invited him to publicly debate the pros and cons
of hdyrogen fuel cell vehicles with a scientist of our
choosing. He suggested that I send him a written
request and perhaps a GM scientist could do that. (I
don't think he really meant it, but who knows...)
Wouldn't that be a nice Earth Day event?
That was so fun I think I'll call the other GM execs
to chat some more about saving the EV1s.
Sherry Boschert
President
San Francisco Electric Vehicle Association
415-681-7731
www.sfeva.org
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry Dycus correctly points out:
>Much better is a small generator of about
>4kw/1,000lbs vehicle along with 70-130 mile range
>gives you unlimited range at a much lower costs and a
>fuel mileage on the few times you need it of
>80-125mpg!
I agree, but you miss the purpose of pipe dreams. :)
There are many ways to push the limits of technology.
One way is to produce affordable, electric cars.
Another way is to build wicked-fast electric cars.
Another way is to build extreme-range vehicles.
Or rapid-charge vehicles.
...the most efficient vehicle.
...the lightest vehicle.
etc.
And there are battery technologies you can point to that, in theory,
could make most of those happen. Just not all at the same time.
There are lithium batteries today with 50C charge rates -- build a
vehicle with 100kwh, and tell Rich you need a 5MW charger. :>
Of course, those batteries are of the micro-variety, and likely won't
scale.
There are lithium-air batteries with theoretical, cathode-less energy
densities of a tad over 11kwh/kg (very close to gasoline). But, I bet
their rate of charge and discharge stinks (and the ones I've read
about are getting between 1kwh and 1.5kwh/kg).
There are lithium systems whose discharge rates are over 100C.
And then, there are the batteries that we can buy.
And then, there are affordable batteries :)
I see nothing wrong with someone building a 1000mi range electric car,
if that's what they want to do. I don't think anyone believes that
to be currently practical. I get a fantastic kick out of seeing all
the wicked-fast cars built and raced by people on this list, but I
also consider a car that needs to be hauled to and from the track to be
impractical.
Fundamentally, I agree with you, Jerry -- I like what Greg Hanssen has
done with the Prius. It wasn't clear to me how he runs the car at freeway
speed on electric, but the EVWorld interview didn't cover it (or I
missed it). Regardless, plug-in hybrids make a lot of sense, in my
opinion, given the current set of tradeoffs.
That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to put a 300HP monster into my
Saturn coupe at some point, though. Sometimes, practical isn't the
end goal. I'd equally applaud the madman that took an Elise, stuck an
Exige, carbon-fiber body on it, and stuffed as much electric horsepower
in there as would fit. The fact that it would cost as much as or more
than the last TZero just means I won't be the person doing that.
<shrug> :>
Waiting for FEVT pricing :) :),
-Dave
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like a non-linear pot. Perhaps a linear device is what you need?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maki, Garret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 2:37 PM
Subject: RE: potbox tolerance
Dave, I've only been taking about the full on state. The throttle still
closes all the way, so when it is off, it is off and no current is coming
out.
I want to tweak the throttle curve a little because I feel like it doesn't
really go until it's twisted a good amount. Wait, I guess that won't work
since if I remember right there is a actually a mechanical problem where
the
resistance didn't start changing until the good bit into the twist. It
may
have been designed this way to have a safe margin where it is off as the
grip is in its rest position.
Still, as I turn it, it feels like "nothing, nothing, Bam here we go."
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 2:07 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: potbox tolerance
Wouldn't the lower final resistance mean that the motor still gets a
little
juice even when all the way off?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maki, Garret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: potbox tolerance
I am using an Alltrax. I found the manual and in case anyone else was
wondering it states full on at 4.7k.
Too bad, I thought I might have found some free horsepower hiding, guess
not. Thanks for the help.
-Garret
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:31 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: potbox tolerance
Maki, Garret wrote:
I have a Magura twist grip pot for my motorcycle. I measured it the
other day and it is actually a 4.7k ohm pot. Should I be concerned
that I am not getting fully to 5K?
The Curtis controllers specify 4.4k as "full throttle", so you should be
ok. I'm not sure about other brands of controller.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The tire pressure for a certain weight per wheel is the calculation of the
deflection rate of the tire.
A standard deflection rate is about 5 percent of the side wall height of the
tire, which is measure from the road surface to the lower rim of the wheel.
For Example:
If the rating of a tire is 50 PSI at 1000 lbs then:
1. Jack the tire off the road surface.
2. Air up the tire to 50 PSI.
3. Let the tire down until it just touches the road surface
4. Measure from the road surface to the bottom of the
wheel rim. Lets say it is 5 inches.
5. Take 5 percent of 5 inches or is 0.25 inches.
6. Let the total weight of the tire on the road.
7. Measure again, and if it is 4.75 inches, then you have
0.25 inch deflection and the weight is at 1000 lbs on
that wheel.
If you have too much deflection, than the tire type is wrong. With too much
deflection at high speeds for long period of time, the tire wire overheat.
If you are driving at lower speeds or short period of time at highway speeds,
you could get by with a higher deflection rate of 0.50 inch.
Large semi rigs used about 0.385 deflection rate on there 20 inch tires for
highway driving.
Also how rough a ride do you want. A low deflection rated will give you a
harsh ride, but the tire will last longer.
Or if you want a softer ride, for town driving only, a deflection rate of up to
0.75 will work. This is what they did to those Firestone Tires when the car
manufacture tire specific a low PSI at 22 lbs for a soft ride, but the tire
could not withstand the higher deflection rated at higher speeds. The air
pressure recommended by the Firestone was at least 32 lbs.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Maston<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: Tire pressure for lower rolling resistance?
Will I have lower rolling resistance with a higher pressure tire in the
same size and weight rating as a lower pressure tire? The tires I'm
considering are 175/70-13: Sumitomo HTR 200 @ 51 PSI max and an H speed
rating, and Goodyear Integrity @ 44 PSI max and an S speed rating. Both
have an 82 load rating (1047 pounds) at max pressure.
Thanks,
Patrick Maston
1981 Jet Electrica
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, thanks for that. But which of the two tires I specified will have
lower rolling resistance?
Thanks,
Patrick
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3/8/05 3:34:13 PM >>>
The tire pressure for a certain weight per wheel is the calculation of
the deflection rate of the tire.
A standard deflection rate is about 5 percent of the side wall height
of the tire, which is measure from the road surface to the lower rim of
the wheel.
For Example:
If the rating of a tire is 50 PSI at 1000 lbs then:
1. Jack the tire off the road surface.
2. Air up the tire to 50 PSI.
3. Let the tire down until it just touches the road surface
4. Measure from the road surface to the bottom of the
wheel rim. Lets say it is 5 inches.
5. Take 5 percent of 5 inches or is 0.25 inches.
6. Let the total weight of the tire on the road.
7. Measure again, and if it is 4.75 inches, then you have
0.25 inch deflection and the weight is at 1000 lbs on
that wheel.
If you have too much deflection, than the tire type is wrong. With too
much deflection at high speeds for long period of time, the tire wire
overheat.
If you are driving at lower speeds or short period of time at highway
speeds, you could get by with a higher deflection rate of 0.50 inch.
Large semi rigs used about 0.385 deflection rate on there 20 inch tires
for highway driving.
Also how rough a ride do you want. A low deflection rated will give
you a harsh ride, but the tire will last longer.
Or if you want a softer ride, for town driving only, a deflection rate
of up to 0.75 will work. This is what they did to those Firestone Tires
when the car manufacture tire specific a low PSI at 22 lbs for a soft
ride, but the tire could not withstand the higher deflection rated at
higher speeds. The air pressure recommended by the Firestone was at
least 32 lbs.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Maston<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: Tire pressure for lower rolling resistance?
Will I have lower rolling resistance with a higher pressure tire in
the
same size and weight rating as a lower pressure tire? The tires I'm
considering are 175/70-13: Sumitomo HTR 200 @ 51 PSI max and an H
speed
rating, and Goodyear Integrity @ 44 PSI max and an S speed rating.
Both
have an 82 load rating (1047 pounds) at max pressure.
Thanks,
Patrick Maston
1981 Jet Electrica
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Anyone in the northern california looking to buy some? Shipping for 300
is over 525, but for more cells coming to california, the cost-per-unit
should go down.
Interested? We would pay Tim individually, then pay for the total
shipping using freightquote.com. Could store them here if needed for
pickup? I get a sizable discount through them. Or can someone get even
more of a discount? Any better ideas?
Bryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
I got the car going and the heater works well. I tapped an on-off
rocker switch into the fan + wire so that the heater can only come on
when the fan is running. From the on-off switch the wire goes to a 12V
relay that controls the old main contactor, which sends the power to the
ceramic heater cores through a fuse and #10 wire. The 12V relay will
only pull in when the fan is on medium or high speed (when it's on low
speed the voltage to the relay is too low). It's a pretty good
low-budget setup: 2 Heaters @ $16.88, 2 tubes of 3M Silicone 1 window
caulk (to seal around the cores in the heater box) @ $3.88, $6 for a 12v
relay, $7 for the fuse, $4 for the rocker switch, $2 for crimp
connectors, and about $4 worth of #10 wire. If you want I can post the
heater model # later.
Patrick Maston
1981 Jet Electrica
>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12/28/04 11:15:21 AM >>>
Please keep us posted!!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Maston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:45 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 1500W ceramic heater options at Target
Ken,
I got 2 1550W cubes @ Walmart for $16.88 apiece. I took them apart,
cut the fans off the ceramic elements with my angle grinder, then
wired
them both in parallel. For a bench test I set them up in my original
heater box with 120V AC to the cores and 12V DC to the fan motor. It
worked great. Those puppies really put out some heat! To make sure
the
cores were self-limiting, I shut the fan off with the cores still
plugged in. Nothing melted or went up in smoke. I installed the
heater
box in the car, but have yet to get it hooked up to the 120V DC power
(need to finish putting in the new batteries), which will be the
ultimate test.
Patrick Maston
1981 Jet Electrica
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/23/04 7:11:04 PM >>>
At Target for $50
30" tall ceramic heater tower 1500W max with digital control
Also at target for only $21
Square style ceramic heaters at 1500W
1500W seems to be about the max on these ceramic heaters in the retail
channel
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:29 PM -0600 3-7-05, Nick Viera wrote:
Since I installed my Zilla, my DC/DC converter has begun blowing its
input fuse. I own a DCP DC/DC converter. Basically, it appears the
DC/DC converter works fine when the Jeep is off. However, when I
turn on the Jeep (by taking the ignition switch to the start
position to activate the Zilla), the DC/DC converter's input fuse
would blow within a minute or two. This appears to be a repeatable
occurrence.
Well that sure is odd.
I wonder if it's the load of the contactor on the 12V system, or some
of the top secret Alien sourced parts from outer space that I use in
the Zilla causing the problem? :-)
A few questions:
Unfortunately this might cost you a few fuses to figure out...
Were you driving when it blew? If yes then what did you set your Low
Battery Voltage cutback to? (Battery menu, setting v) If it's too low
then the DC-DC might be trying too hard to keep up and draw too much
current. Since you have a 160V pack, I would try it at no less than
110V.
Does it blow if you start the controller and do not drive?
Does it blow if you do not start the controller, but just turn on the
headlights for ten minutes?
Is your DC-DC wired so it is always on, 100% of the time, or does it
have it's own relay for turning it on?
That's all I can think to ask at the moment.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:15 AM 3/6/2005, Otmar wrote:
Lets see, a quick webs search gets this:
The EV-1 numbers are 0.19 Cd and 1.89 sq.m for a CDA of 0.359.
Insight numbers of 0.25 and 1.9 sq for a CdA of 0.475.
Is there any place I could find the area and CdA for things like a Ford
F-250 truck?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
A 360 volt pack will charge up to a peak Voltage of about 450 volts. When a
motor chopper is operated with free wheel diode and ripple capacitor, the
Voltage overshoots about 50 to 100 volts on top of the peak input Voltage
producing about 500 to 550 volts peak Voltage on the IGBTs or MOSFETs which
are rated at typically 600 Volts.
It is a matter of engineering margin on how close to the rating you want to
run the devices. The closer you run them, the less reliable they become. I
personally like at least 15% overhead and typically 25% to be comfortable.
Motor controllers can be built with 1200 volt parts but they switch slower
and make roughly twice the heat as the 600 volt parts. A higher voltage
motor controller can be built but the noise is irritating and the box gets
quite a bit bigger to deal with the increased heat load.
They would switch slower and I agree with the capacitor issue but think
of what you could do if you had 4x250A 1200v devices you could have
1000v * 1000a = 1MW
(you could make a lot of sparks on the commutator) :-)
--
Martin Klingensmith
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cloud and All,
Comments inserted below:
>From: "Virtual Dave"
>Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 10:22:53 -0800
>
>John Wayland must not have read my last post...
I've mentioned this before, but I don't think my friend John Wayland is
reading my posts either. Maybe it's because I hang out with that John Bryan
character, who kept posting back-door political stuff on this list (was it
once or twice last summer when JB mentioned the Moore film?)! Speaking of
JB, he didn't make it to the mouth-watering Gondolier spaghetti Electric
Lunch today with four other local EV'ers. He was busy replacing the SLI 12V
battery in his electric Ghia, which was at least seven years old and a
hand-me-down wheelchair battery from Bill Dube', I believe he said. Sorry,
I digress with an amp-about post...
>John Wayland wrote "It's also irritating when the same people who want to
>change rules so that individuals can 'win', are often the same ones who are
>secretive about their designs, secretive about what
>worked or what didn't, and run around accusing others of doing this and
>doing that."
>
>I sure hope John was not talking about me. I have built 34 electric race
I don't know Dave Cloud very well, as I've only seen him once at a NEDRA
event up in Woodburn a few years ago, but when I first got into EV's there
was a very secretive guy with an electric rail at Bandimere's dragstrip in
Denver. This was back about six years ago before the event moved to 'Vegas,
so there was a huge turnout of NEDRA folk and local EV'ers. The guy I'm
thinking of didn't even park near the NEDRA group, and I couldn't get
anywhere near his vehicle when I first spotted it! As I recall, his
girlfriend was much more friendly than he was towards this newbie at that
time.
>I don't have the time to engage in on-going debate over my ideas so I won't
>continue posting. I am much happier in my shop trying to further develop
>electric vehicles in my own way.
What a concept, actually working on EV's! Are you off the blood soaked oil
and driving electric on a daily basis?
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Watering the Safts is the same as the Marathon's. Unscrew the valve cover,
and water with syringe, then repeat on next cell. It's not bad on my
motorcycle, because there are not that many cells and they are easy to get
at. For most cars it would be a real bummer though.
damon
From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: BB-600 NiCad Cells
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 13:11:22 -0500
Great! How do they work for watering?
These are probably the ones we have.
Chris
damon henry wrote:
I have Saft cells that are almost identical to the BB600. Usually when
Saft's are mentioned on this list people are referring to the 6 volt STM
modules, but Saft is a big player in the airline battery market and have a
whole line of high current sintered plate cells.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roy and All,
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Additionally on this subject...
>
> I usually tell folks to use an existing dual-cable
> control hooked up to two
> Curtis PB-6s.
>
> This effectively keeps the sensitive devices away
> from the salt water.
Yeah, right ;-))
As a boat electrician even before designing,
building them there is no such thing as keeping
saltwater away from any part of a boat!
Maybe if you put then in a sealed alum box for heat
conduction with all wires well sealed too.
The best, cheapest, most reliable would be 2 big
DPDT knife switches, one for series/paralleling the
batts for 2 speeds and neutral, the other for
reversing, both slathered with waterproof grease or
vasoline. They would probably have to be set up for a
45deg angle to look good and fit in a smaller space.
Buy some 100-200amp AC service disconnect switches or
it's replacement parts to make it from.
As a boat is so sluggish, 2 speeds are enough for
most anything unless it's a high powered planning
boat.
Or regular switches controlling enclosed
contactors.
If you are going to use controllers, only use fully
potted ones.
jerry dycus
>
> Many builders are starting from scratch (and/or need
> it to be ridiculously
> simple) and want something all in one unit that
> doesn't have to be
> assembled.
>
> Just wanted to clarify this further.
>
> Thanks again for any ideas/advice.
>
> .
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.cloudelectric.com
> http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
>
> Cloud Electric Vehicles
> 19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
> Kent, Washington 98032
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
