EV Digest 4168
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EV1 Vigil - Dave Goldstein's conversation with GM Mouthpiece
Chris Preuss
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 9' ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Bendy batteries: the MIT Slimcell
by David Navas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal group buy?
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Jeep EV Update (New Controller!)
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Chatting With GM
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) energy density comparison
by Carl Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
by Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV1 Vigil - Latest News from Chelsea Sexton
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Fw: Las Vegas NEDRA Wicked Watts Head Count
by "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: all chapters EV conference in Austin TX - Please RSVP
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal group buy?
by Bryan B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Tire pressure for lower rolling resistance?
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Peukerts for TS LI-Ions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) SAFT energy density comparison
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: AC Bandsaw motor questions
by Jim Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: SAFT energy density comparison
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Jeep EV Update (New Controller!)
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: 9' ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I telephoned GM's Communication Director Chris Preuss in Washington this
afternoon, who, surprisingly, answered his own phone! When I identified
myself as Dave Goldstein, President of EVA/DC, he immediately said,
"Didn't you call me before?"
I assured him that I had never spoken with him before (but took this as an
indication that he has been receiving so many calls on this that he cannot
keep his callers straight!)
I briefly let him know that the Burbank EV1 protest is spreading, that GM
should not crush the remaining EV1s, and that loyal GM customers across the
country would like to own these EV1s and would like to see GM restart
production of these exceptional cars.
He responded with the usual corporate line: that GM appreciates the feelings
of its customers but that there was just no way that GM could make a
sustainable business from the few cars that were sold (i.e., - leased.).
I agreed that "no manufacturer can make a profit on 1,000 cars," but added
that I had spoken to GM engineers who had worked on the EV1 project, who
told us that GM has made a corporate decision to only build 500 of the Gen 2
cars (now in Burbank) regardless of customer demand, and that EV1 customer
service reps had told us that they had ten customers for every EV1 that was
built!
Preuss said that he "wasn't going to engage in a debate" with me, and said
in effect that he was sorry, but the decision had been made.
I told him, "I understand what you are saying, but we know the numbers and
we know the Truth, and we are not going to let this thing drop! It's time
for GM to start listening to its customers again!"
He thanked me for my comments; I thanked him for his time, and we hung up.
Dave Goldstein
President
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ben;
Yur motor is probably the same vintage as mine. I hear you, Figgured I'd
throw in my Rabbit setup. I drilled and tapped mounting holes for a , maybe
one eight or so steel plate, which I welded the top part of an old shock,
the round donut rubber part, hacked it off just below the donut, where it
flairs out to the tube-ie part, so It wouldnt melt the rubber when stick
welding it. bolted to the end of the motor, and supported by the new
brackets I welded to the Rabbit chassis. Like somebody suggested, jacked
everything into place, put all the other Rabbit tranny mounting bolts in so
everything was where it had to go. Made and tacked the new motor mount,
pulled it away, unbolted, and welded it up tight, that was like 6 years ago,
been fine EVer since.I was just lucky as the 9 inch motor was a perfect fit,
like not too long, fat or whatEVer. This was the only mod. To hold up the
end of the motor. The torque issues were already provided for by the other
mount bolts, all I had to do was hold the motor up!
In the Porsche, I guess yur set with a similar setup, the Teutonic
heritage of the car, the engine tranny mount are set up similar to the
Rabbit? Hold the end of the motor up, the tranny mounts take care of the
torque thing? Not like the old Beatle, you just hang the motor there.Best
that ya take the end bell off the motor before drilling holes in that, so
you don't drill into the brushes! Well..Duh! Didn't hafta tell ya that<g>!
I'm running two 3 eighths bolts, I think? There are lugs cast onto the
aluminun, THATS what I'm tapped into, a but meatier than the flat part.
Good Luck!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Apollonio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: 9' ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
> On Mar 9, 2005, at 5:33 AM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> > Here is what I would do.
> > Use a trolley jack to hold the motor/tranny in the proper position.
> > Attach the bolts at the rear of the transmission.
> > Attach the front motor mount to the car.
> > Use a grease pencil/etc. to mark the position of the front mount on the
> > motor. Probably good idea to add an index mark that goes across the
> > motor
> > onto the mount.
>
> What kind of precision is required in aligning the motor in the car?
> Is this enough? What happens if the motor goes in slightly crooked,
> will things tear themselves apart? If this is good enough, it's almost
> tempting to buy a tap and just use my cordless drill with a 3/8" bit,
> though I guess I'd need to be *very* careful I was going at it straight
> and didn't mess it up. I'd probably still take it to a machinist just
> to be sure.
>
> Does anyone know where I can find the dimensions of that back plate and
> where the holes should be online, perhaps if I contact ADC? If I could
> get the proper dimensions, I could take those (rather than a couple
> grease marks) and the end piece to a machinist and get the holes
> drilled/tapped where they're supposed to be. That would probably be
> the easiest, cheapest, and safest solution.
>
> Thanks again! Your responses have all been great
> -Ben
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jay writes:
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0%2C13026%2C1423451%2C00.html
Paul writes:
>>Another new cell design, giving 250 wh/kg:
>>http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/03/bendy_batteries.php
Sadoway's cells are interesting. As I recall, they have higher than
250 in the lab and are aiming at 400wh/kg. The thing is, though, that
in attempting to create a battery that is cheap to manufacture (or
mayhaps for other reasons), they've foregone Co. LiVOx suffers from
low-rate, and the best they've done is get 1.6C out of it. You'd need to
have some kind of assist to put this in an EV.
Voltaflex is attempting to make them using a roll-2-roll, which should
make them pretty affordable. Assuming they are successful. Take
a peek at:
http://www.voltaflex.com/tech.wp.html
-Dave
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At that weight, it may be time to shop around a bit as well.
Where in NorCal are you? Maybe I can arrange a buy in SoCal and
pick them up from your place (I get up there a few times a year.)
In fact, I'm driving a truck from Sacramento to San Bernardino the
first weekend of April, so if this all happens pretty quickly, I can
combine trips.
Anybody else in SoCal interested in a group buy?
Tim
---------
> > Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:14:09 -0800
> From: Bryan B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
>
>
> I went back to freightquote and checkbox hazardous material, seems all
> they wanted contact info.
>
> I increased the shipping weight to 2000 lbs, 4 pallets (4'x4')
> non-stackable gives a quote of $865. Not too bad compared to $525 for
> half the weight. Cuts shipping to $432.50 /1000Lbs.
> I would have to pick up from Old Dominion terminal unless I pay extra
> (maybe a good idea considering 2000Lbs - about $75-100 for delivery)
> More weight may offer a greater individual $ savings on shipping.
> I can firm up the quote once the number of cells being transported is
> known.
> Why do the good buys always seem to be located on the east coast?
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
Well that sure is odd.
I wonder if it's the load of the contactor on the 12V system, or some
of the top secret Alien sourced parts from outer space that I use in
the Zilla causing the problem? :-)
My experience:
The fuse generally blows when the DC/DC is under high load,
headlights, windshield wipers, etc.
The fuse blowing is often proceeded by 5-10 minutes of the emeter
resetting whenever accelerating (back to blinking digits) implying that
the 12v rail is being pulled especially low. The emeter is powered from
the DC/DC second 12v output. The Hairball does not log any SLI faults.
The fuse has twice blown when the car was idle (zilla off), in both
cases the DC/DC was struggling to recharge a greatly discharged 12v battery.
The DC/DC is wired always on. The DC/DC and charger are connected
to a 6awg line run for most positive and most negative poles that is
seperated from the main 2/0 controller wiring.
In my case the DC/DC has been back to Alltrax twice, the first time
they replaced an exploded component near the main filter cap (the small
transistor close to the terminal edge of the board I think) The second
time Alltrax replaced the fuse and it ran on their test bench under full
load for 48 hours without fault.
It is probably not a heat issue, my unit does not generally get too
hot to touch, Nick's unit did until he added a fan. (MR2 Power steering
pump)
My battery Voltage cutback is set at 150VDC, well above the DC/DC
minimum of ~85VDC. I am not sure what Nick has set his to but he has
blown the fuse with the battery voltage well above 140VDC. Nick did
make two changes, he had another filter cap (about the size of the
internal one) in parallel with his DC/DC until he installed the Zilla.
He is going to reinstall that cap and see what effect it has.
Yesterday my fuse blew for the first time in several weeks. The MR2
took a slighty longer than normal trip with a friend behind the wheel
who drives a shade more aggressively than I. The DC/DC was under
minimal load (no lights or wipers AFAIK)
My suspicion is still that the battery pack is momentarily dropping too
low, or is seeing large spikes due to the Zilla. Otmar has a lot of
caps in the Zilla, but how much ripple makes it back into the batteries?
Basically it is still too intermittant to get a good feel for what the
triggering event is. In Nick's case he is blowing fuses nearly daily,
and yesterday sparks shot out of his DC/DC (but no obvious damage to the
DC/DC.) I don't know if he has reconnected power to it after that event.
While I doubt the Zilla is to blame I'd like to get a larger sample.
Who else on the list is running a Zilla and DCP DC/DC? If it seems to
work well for you how large are the wires in the system, and how large
is your 12v battery?
The DCP DC/DC is basically no longer available. I understand that a
dozen or so are still around but that the current owner is hesitant to
put them into the retail channel. This leaves the EV industry with no
high voltage capable DC/DC products. Someone needs to start thinking
about repackaging an Vicor or Meanwell device.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Jim,
I've forwarded this to the "Save The EV1" folks who may be interested in
attending.
Chip Gribben
Save the EV1
http://www.saveev1.org
On 3/9/05 10:27 AM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> wrote:
> From: "Jim Waite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 23:06:57 -0800
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Cc: "Sherry Boschert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: chatting with GM
>
> Hi Sherry & All,
>
> Subject: SAE 2005 World Congress
> April 11-14, 2005
> Cobo Center, Detroit, Michigan
> Host Company: General Motors
>
> Unless you're already an SAE member (& live near Detroit or can get cheap
> airfare), the attendance price is pretty steep. But there's probably
> something for everyone at next months SAE meeting. It's of course geared
> towards ICE-heads, but *maybe* this is your chance to get up close &
> personal with auto industry movers and shakers (including Mr. Lutz hisself)
> to understand where they're coming from (and perhaps inject an alternatiEV
> approach:-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Somebody posted an energy density comparison table for a bunch of different
batteries a while back but I can't find it in the archives. If anyone knows
where I can find it, please let me know. Hopefully it has Saft 34Ah cells!
Thanks
Carl Clifford
Denver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On my E-scort, the end of the motor is not supported at all. It is bolted
directly to the bell housing of the transaxle. With all this talk about aft
mounts, should I install some sort of support or motor clamp type support?
This E-scort has been this way for years without any problems but I recently
upgraded to a larger controller and had to turn down the amps due to main
circuit breaker tripping. Need to upgrade this breaker.
Does Electro Auto or anybody else still make the clamp type mounts?
Gabe Alarcon
Cienaga Solar, Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Electro Automotive<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
>I was all set to hoist my 9" ADC into my Porsche 914 this week so that I
>could design my battery boxes around it. I've bolted on my adapter plate
>from Electro Automotive and went to bolt on the mounting bracket (also
>from electro auto), which attaches to the tail end of the motor and a
>cross-bar in the engine compartment, when I discovered that my motor has
>no mounting holes.
>The aft end of the motor (the end opposite the transmission; the end with
>the commutator) has a tail shaft, four bolts that hold the face onto the
>motor, four *tiny* holes (1/16th inch?),
These are what hole the brush rigging to the case from the inside.
> and no places to attach the mount using a pair of 3/8" bolts Even the
> little tiny holes aren't spaced correctly to match up with my electro
> auto adapter. Until today, I had thought I was just supposed to take out
> two of the bolts that mount the aluminum face of the motor to the rest of
> the case and replace them with longer ones, but alas, I was quite wrong,
> as those holes don't line up either.
Where did you get your motor? These motors have come standard with two
mounting pads, 90 degrees apart, drilled and tapped 3/8-16, on the
anti-drive end for many years now. Our mount was designed to mate up to
these factory mounting holes.
I would suggest buying just the correct factory end bell from whoever sold
you the motor. You can probably get this without the brush rigging and
just swap yours over. Any of the other suggestions offered will only lead
to grief.
We always recommend, whenevery you have a problem with a part, go FIRST to
the people you bought the parts from. They will be in the best position to
help you.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com<http://www.electroauto.com/> [EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It seems like there are enough people in CA looking at buying some of
Tim's cells that a group buy might have some advantages. Personally, I
wouldn't mind picking up the batteries if they were in a central
location. The Bay area or Sacramento seem like they might be the most
central locales. Hopefully Tim has a good idea of where everyone is and
can try to let us know how the geographics of a group buy could work
out. Count me in!
Nick Aronoff
Tim Clevenger wrote:
At that weight, it may be time to shop around a bit as well.
Where in NorCal are you? Maybe I can arrange a buy in SoCal and
pick them up from your place (I get up there a few times a year.)
In fact, I'm driving a truck from Sacramento to San Bernardino the
first weekend of April, so if this all happens pretty quickly, I can
combine trips.
Anybody else in SoCal interested in a group buy?
Tim
---------
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:14:09 -0800
From: Bryan B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
I went back to freightquote and checkbox hazardous material, seems all
they wanted contact info.
I increased the shipping weight to 2000 lbs, 4 pallets (4'x4')
non-stackable gives a quote of $865. Not too bad compared to $525 for
half the weight. Cuts shipping to $432.50 /1000Lbs.
I would have to pick up from Old Dominion terminal unless I pay extra
(maybe a good idea considering 2000Lbs - about $75-100 for delivery)
More weight may offer a greater individual $ savings on shipping.
I can firm up the quote once the number of cells being transported is
known.
Why do the good buys always seem to be located on the east coast?
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chip,
Would you forward me Chelsea's contact info (email or phone). I'd
like to contact her regarding the offer to GM to buy the EV1s.
Thanks,
Richard
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 23:32:18 -0500, Chip Gribben futurev-at-radix.net
|vehicle/1.0-Allow| <...> wrote:
> Today has been a big day. A major Washington newspaper is doing a story
> within the next couple of days.
>
> We did get an article in the Daily Breeze on Sunday (which covers LAX to LA
> Harbor) http://www.dailybreeze.com/columnists/bogert/1339217.html
>
> And the Voice Yourself piece got picked up and reprinted by EV World:
>
> http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=815
>
> But here's my personal favorite of the day... Wednesday I will be doing
> Eco-talk w/ Betsy Rosenberg, on Air America. Up against GM Spokesman Dave
> Barthmuss
>
> Chelsea Sexton
> Save the EV1
> http://www.saveev1.org
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry Chip , I'm not sure if we are going to make it this year with the
Bikes, If I do come it would be with ICE Breaker, I'm now raising the
voltage and want to get a few runs in at the local track before this April
event happens.
Brian
> That's cool Gadget!
>
> So far, Brigham Young University will be there with their ultra capacitor
> powered EV-1.
>
> NEDRA VP, Brian Hall will be there with his record setting bikes.
>
> Brent and Ken Singleton will be racing with their record setting electric
jr
> dragster.
>
> William Keuhl will be racing his NEDRA record breaking Pontiac Fiero.
>
> I think Richard plans to race his RX7 but may have some battery issues
with
> it.
>
> There are some folks flying in from California to spectate.
>
> That's what I know off hand. We'll know more towards the end of March.
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA Webmaster
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
>
> On 3/7/05 12:18 AM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> wrote:
>
> > From: Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 11:17:05 -0800 (PST)
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Las Vegas NEDRA Wicked Watts Head Count
> >
> > Gadget will be there with camera and crew. we would
> > like to get some footage to use in our upcoming pilot.
> > I'd love to know who's going.
> >
> > Gadget
> > --- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey everyone,
> >>
> >> There's been a lot of discussion about NEDRA classes
> >> lately but now its time
> >> to start doing some racing!
> >>
> >> Our NEDRA Season opener will be at Las Vegas April
> >> 9. Just a month away.
> >>
> >> We need a head count of who is going.
> >>
> >> Please respond to Stan Hanel, Richard Furniss or
> >> myself if you plan to race
> >> or visit.
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> So dust off those battery caps and get on out to Las
> >> Vegas April 9.
> >>
> >> Chip Gribben
> >> NEDRA hat on
> >> http://www.nedra.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
keith vansickle wrote:
Hi all,
I intend to go to this all chapters meeting in Austin.
As a note, if you are planning on attending the EAA Event in Austin
April 1-3rd AustinEV would appreciate if you RSVP'd at our website. It
helps with planning meals and transportation. The Event is free for all
(we will probably charge a small fee for catered meals), and there will
be shuttle and overnight accomodations.
More info:
http://austinev.org/events/index.html
RSVP form:
http://www.mindbent.org/4eaa/
Thanks
Mark Farver
AustinEV.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm 2 hours north of Sacramento, about 4 miles from I-5.
bryan
---
Tim Clevenger wrote:
At that weight, it may be time to shop around a bit as well.
Where in NorCal are you? Maybe I can arrange a buy in SoCal and
pick them up from your place (I get up there a few times a year.)
In fact, I'm driving a truck from Sacramento to San Bernardino the
first weekend of April, so if this all happens pretty quickly, I can
combine trips.
Anybody else in SoCal interested in a group buy?
Tim
---------
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:14:09 -0800
From: Bryan B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
I went back to freightquote and checkbox hazardous material, seems all
they wanted contact info.
I increased the shipping weight to 2000 lbs, 4 pallets (4'x4')
non-stackable gives a quote of $865. Not too bad compared to $525 for
half the weight. Cuts shipping to $432.50 /1000Lbs.
I would have to pick up from Old Dominion terminal unless I pay extra
(maybe a good idea considering 2000Lbs - about $75-100 for delivery)
More weight may offer a greater individual $ savings on shipping.
I can firm up the quote once the number of cells being transported is
known.
Why do the good buys always seem to be located on the east coast?
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Both the tires I have to choose from have the same maximum weight
rating: 1047 lbs. Assuming that the tread compound is the same (I know
it's not, but I have no way to test the potential differences between
them), do I want the one that takes 51PSI @ 1047 lbs, or the one that
takes 44PSI @1047 lbs? I'm going to get 4 of whatever I buy so that I
can rotate them from front to rear, so I don't think the weight
differential front/back is an issue.
Thanks,
Patrick
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3/8/05 8:32:44 PM >>>
You will have to weigh your EV front to rear and calculated the
weight on each wheel. The closer the weight is to the maximum weight of
the tire, will have the lowest resistance.
Lets say you have a tire rated for 50 PSI at 1000 lbs and you have
1200 lbs on that tire, then it will have a higher resistance than 1000
lbs on that tire because you will have too much deflection.
Normally the lower PSI tire at the same weight will ride harsher
because the side walls are more stiffer. My Dunlap tires at 65 PSI
rating has a less stiffer sides which balloon out more, than the
GoodYears I had on that was rated a 40 PSI at 2500 lbs.
Do not used a nylon/steel belted type tire, as they will tend to
become out of round while they are setting. It is best to used the new
poly belt type.
Roland
Try to get as close as possible.
On my EV, I have 65 PSI at 2500 lbs rated tires of which I have 2376
lbs on each rear tires and 1188 lbs on each front tire.
Therefore:
(65 x 2376)/2500 = about 62 lbs on the rear and
(65 x 1188)/2500 = about 31 lbs on the front.
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 3/8/05 3:34:13 PM >>>
The tire pressure for a certain weight per wheel is the calculation
of
the deflection rate of the tire.
A standard deflection rate is about 5 percent of the side wall
height
of the tire, which is measure from the road surface to the lower rim
of
the wheel.
For Example:
If the rating of a tire is 50 PSI at 1000 lbs then:
1. Jack the tire off the road surface.
2. Air up the tire to 50 PSI.
3. Let the tire down until it just touches the road surface
4. Measure from the road surface to the bottom of the
wheel rim. Lets say it is 5 inches.
5. Take 5 percent of 5 inches or is 0.25 inches.
6. Let the total weight of the tire on the road.
7. Measure again, and if it is 4.75 inches, then you have
0.25 inch deflection and the weight is at 1000 lbs on
that wheel.
If you have too much deflection, than the tire type is wrong. With
too
much deflection at high speeds for long period of time, the tire
wire
overheat.
If you are driving at lower speeds or short period of time at
highway
speeds, you could get by with a higher deflection rate of 0.50 inch.
Large semi rigs used about 0.385 deflection rate on there 20 inch
tires
for highway driving.
Also how rough a ride do you want. A low deflection rated will give
you a harsh ride, but the tire will last longer.
Or if you want a softer ride, for town driving only, a deflection
rate
of up to 0.75 will work. This is what they did to those Firestone
Tires
when the car manufacture tire specific a low PSI at 22 lbs for a
soft
ride, but the tire could not withstand the higher deflection rated
at
higher speeds. The air pressure recommended by the Firestone was at
least 32 lbs.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Maston<<A
href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<<A
href="mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: Tire pressure for lower rolling resistance?
Will I have lower rolling resistance with a higher pressure tire
in
the
same size and weight rating as a lower pressure tire? The tires
I'm
considering are 175/70-13: Sumitomo HTR 200 @ 51 PSI max and an H
speed
rating, and Goodyear Integrity @ 44 PSI max and an S speed rating.
Both
have an 82 load rating (1047 pounds) at max pressure.
Thanks,
Patrick Maston
1981 Jet Electrica
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Gary,
Yo can have two new (never used, from recent "reolacement" batch I got)
cells to try to determine their Peukert effect. I plan to install them
at some point to replace bad ones in ACRX, but it will likely be few
month before I'll do that.
I thinl you can test them safely up to 0.5C (45A) rate. Minimum 3 points
(15A, 30A and 45A) will allow you to determine any dependency.
'Course finer increments will yield more accurate fit curve.
Victor
Gary Graunke wrote:
I'll be glad to do the experiment. My cells are older (just like
yours--no new ones yet). I did notice a fairly large variation in the
internal resistance and capacity at the 25A load. I stopped discharge
for about 1 minute every 10 minutes in an attempt to measure the
internal resistance as a function of SOC.
However, I mostly noticed the large variation in internal resistance and
capacity between cells. (I guess I need to get that data on my website).
I would be glad to run cycles at various loads (say 5A increments to 25A).
There might be a break-in effect, so perhaps I should run a few cycles
first just to get them going.
I measure the temperature--I guess I could try to control it as well.
(Someone (whose name escapes me) visiting from AC Propulsion suggested
keeping them in the 20-30C range for best life).
Any other considerations?
Gary
================
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A good central point might be Manteca/Lathrop for NorCal and
Pomona for SoCal. Manteca is equidistant from the Bay Area,
Sacramento and (almost) Fresno, and Pomona at the 57/210
split is equidistant to LA, Orange and San Bernardino/Riverside
counties. I happen to pass through both those points on my
trips, so this might just work out.
So how 'bout it? Anybody else?
--------
From: Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 8:37 am
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
It seems like there are enough people in CA looking at buying some of
Tim's cells that a group buy might have some advantages. Personally, I
wouldn't mind picking up the batteries if they were in a central
location. The Bay area or Sacramento seem like they might be the most
central locales. Hopefully Tim has a good idea of where everyone is and
can try to let us know how the geographics of a group buy could work
out. Count me in!
Nick Aronoff
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ORIG SPECS-
http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5004.pdf , look for item 20
20. Battery, Storage:
SAFT AMERICA INC.
P/N 017371-000
Nickel Cadmium aircraft battery.
MSDS: CFCTF, SC0400 4266UAA4.
NSN 6140-00-881-6887
DEMIL CODE A
CONTACT: GWEN CHERRY PHONE: 804-279-6206
Inside - H050110A0
Boxes on 6 banded wooden pallets.
Unused - Containers in good condition
Total Cost - $249664.00
Est Total Wt - 32096 lbs.
DOT HAZ CLASS: 8
236 PACKAGE
as per Tim Humphrey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
They are 1.2 volts and 34ah per cell.
The cells used are 9 13/32 inches high, 3 9/64 inches wide, and 1
25/64 inches deep. Each cell weighs approximately 3 1/2 pounds
So I worked up a 300 cell pallet size using the follow numbers per cell - 9.5h
x 3.25w x 1.75d
300 x 3.5 lbs = 1050 lbs + 25lb for pallet = 1075lbs
300 cells = 12 rows x 25 cells
= 39" x 43.75" x 9.5 " high, which leaves room for wooden sides
on a 48 square pallet.
rate as per freightquote.com is $514.67 by
Carrier Name: OLD DOMINION FREIGHT LINE
Terminal City: SYRACUSE, NY
Terminal Phone: 315.463.0029
This would be to 85736 with no lift gate required, I then added the lift gate
(residence del) and got $680.
I've written Tim to ask how he plans to reship them. From the orig specs it
seems that they come in containers. Are they the same alum containers that
Philippe showed us
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Aprilia%20Eproject%20001.jpg ? If
so then it makes sense to get them in groups of 20 like in the photo, which
would ease his repacking process.
I want 300 cells, so anybody in my area that wants some, let me know and we can
get them shipped together. Or if feasable I can join the SoCal group and pick
them up there, or even pick up mine and somebody elses shipment. Let me know on
or off list.
Rush
Tucson AZ
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.0 - Release Date: 3/8/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Carl and All,
While SAFT batt modules have densities of
aboutr 1.5x lead acid, their cells have about 1x lead
acid so the same energy as lead batts.
Where they shine is 20-30 yr life, ability to
discharge 95% without lost of life, sit discharged
without lost of life, no downgrading in cold weather
which cuts leads by as much as 1/2 and for these
particular cells, very high dischage rates with little
voltage sag and stif voltage until 90% discharged.
So even with the same energy/lb, you can use
more of it without problems and all of this in cold
weather.
You can plan on getting at least 34amphrs from
them as SAFT generally run about 110% of ratings so
with their weight of 3.4 lbs? each you could figure it
out. If this weight is correct it would be 10wthrs/lb
or 100lbs/kwhr useable but I'm not sure of the weight.
My 14amphr cells are 30 yrs old and still put
out over rated power!
HTH's,
jerry dycus
--- Carl Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Somebody posted an energy density comparison table
> for a bunch of different batteries a while back but
> I can't find it in the archives. If anyone knows
> where I can find it, please let me know. Hopefully
> it has Saft 34Ah cells!
>
> Thanks
>
> Carl Clifford
> Denver
>
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a little experience with three phase converters. My
friend used a couple to drive a CNC mill and a lathe. The
mill worked fine, but the lathe would only work on low speed
(gear change). I think it was the additional inertial load
on the high speed gear that made it impossible to start. He
finally fought with the power company and got real three
phase at a reasonable cost.
When I looked at on a scope I could see that it was a VERY
crude 3-phase. It cost a lot, too. In addition to the
converter, you needed an unloaded three phase motor in
parallel, just sitting on the floor.
I would recommend using a variable frequency electronic
motor controller. That would also give you the variable
speed, too, without changing pulleys :-)
Otherwise, mail me, I think I could get you a good deal on a
couple almost new converters :-)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I just got a old bandsaw (Moak, 36 inch, made in 1967). It has a
Baldor 3 phase, 5 HP, 230/460V motor on it, with a GE 300 In line
>Mag starter switch. I don't have 3 phase, so I can get a
static
>phase converter for about $125 from
andersonconverters.com. But it
>will only give me about 3 HP instead of the 5 HP of the
motor,
>I also understand that it will really use amps.
Which is my best option?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:47 AM 3/9/2005, jerry dycus wrote:
You can plan on getting at least 34amphrs from
them as SAFT generally run about 110% of ratings so
with their weight of 3.4 lbs? each you could figure it
out. If this weight is correct it would be 10wthrs/lb
or 100lbs/kwhr useable but I'm not sure of the weight.
Any chance of them working if they aren't oriented vertically? i.e. can
they be used on their sides? (I'd guess not, since they are flooded cells.)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I might be interested in getting a 200 or so of these. I may have to lift
the Sparrow seat a bit to get them to fit though...
Note:
I'm replying On-List since any email I send to [EMAIL PROTECTED] gets bounced
back with this msg:
I'm beginning to suspect that it doesn't like his email address...
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SMTP error from remote mailer after end of data:
host mail.interwebber.com [208.186.97.227]: 554 Message could not be
sent due to inappropriate content
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Farver said:
> My battery Voltage cutback is set at 150VDC, well above the DC/DC
> minimum of ~85VDC. I am not sure what Nick has set his to but he has
> blown the fuse with the battery voltage well above 140VDC. Nick did
> make two changes, he had another filter cap (about the size of the
> internal one) in parallel with his DC/DC until he installed the Zilla.
> He is going to reinstall that cap and see what effect it has.
>
> Yesterday my fuse blew for the first time in several weeks. The MR2
> took a slighty longer than normal trip with a friend behind the wheel
> who drives a shade more aggressively than I. The DC/DC was under
> minimal load (no lights or wipers AFAIK)
Perhaps I should take the opportunity to invoke a somewhat notorious Mark
Farver quote -- "I wasn't driving that hard; I straigtened the wheels
before I floored it..." In my defense, I did spin the tires in the
parking lot, but I did it in second gear to keep the amps low. :o)
Seriously, for what it's worth I made sure not to drop the volts below 160
when I was ... er, having fun, and it was during the day so the lights
weren't on. On the way home I used the headlights, but I drove very
conservatively at that point (honest!). The volts never dipped below 150
even at the end of the drive. I also never actually noticed the
headlights dim while I was driving home, and I know they were very bright
when I left the office. Assuming the fuse blew while I was driving the
car, it definitely happened during a very normal, casual evening drive and
the only significant 12V load was the headlights as far as I know.
> The DCP DC/DC is basically no longer available. I understand that a
> dozen or so are still around but that the current owner is hesitant to
> put them into the retail channel. This leaves the EV industry with no
> high voltage capable DC/DC products. Someone needs to start thinking
> about repackaging an Vicor or Meanwell device.
I've complained about it before so I won't add too much here, other than
my agreement. This is a hole in the market that would guarantee at least
a temporary monopoly to the party that fills it.
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For what it's worth...I don't need any batteries yet. The closest to an EV I
have is a robomower and a rototiller I plan to install an electric motor on.
BUT I am located about 100 miles South of sacramento, 100 miles East of San
Jose and 100 miles North of Fresno. I would be happy to act as a "depot".
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
A good central point might be Manteca/Lathrop for NorCal and
Pomona for SoCal. Manteca is equidistant from the Bay Area,
Sacramento and (almost) Fresno, and Pomona at the 57/210
split is equidistant to LA, Orange and San Bernardino/Riverside
counties. I happen to pass through both those points on my
trips, so this might just work out.
So how 'bout it? Anybody else?
--------
From: Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 8:37 am
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
It seems like there are enough people in CA looking at buying some of
Tim's cells that a group buy might have some advantages. Personally, I
wouldn't mind picking up the batteries if they were in a central
location. The Bay area or Sacramento seem like they might be the most
central locales. Hopefully Tim has a good idea of where everyone is and
can try to let us know how the geographics of a group buy could work
out. Count me in!
Nick Aronoff
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ben Apollonio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What kind of precision is required in aligning the motor in the car?
> Is this enough? What happens if the motor goes in slightly crooked,
> will things tear themselves apart? If this is good enough,
> it's almost tempting to buy a tap and just use my cordless drill
> with a 3/8" bit, though I guess I'd need to be *very* careful I was
> going at it straight and didn't mess it up.
If you go to Home Depot or similar and buy a 3/8-16 tap, you should be
able to find a package that includes the tap and the appropriate drill
bit (it will not be 3/8"). You will also need a tap handle.
If you bolt the rear mount in and bolt the front mount in, then shift
the motor as required to get the monting pads centered under the bolt
holes in the front mount, this should be good enough.
You can certainly use a handheld drill, though a drill press would be
best. Some drills have bubble levels in them, so if you drill the holes
with the motor out of the car and standing on end so that you can drill
straight down you can probably do just fine.
> Does anyone know where I can find the dimensions of that back
> plate and where the holes should be online, perhaps if I
> contact ADC?
Gordon Wong's online journal of the rebuild of the 9" in his Fiero
<http://gwinfo.net/e-fiero/re-clutching/index.htm#sep19> has lots of
good pictures of the insides and outsides of the ADC 9".
Here's a good picture showing the location of the holes. It appears as
if they are pretty much centered in the two pads:
<http://gwinfo.net/e-fiero/re-clutching/040927-07-endbell.jpg>
Note that the 3/8-16 holes don't go all the way through the endbell.
The information you need (and that perhaps EA can provide you) is how
deep the 3/8-16 holes need to be. If the mount came with appropriate
3/8-16 bolts, then you can determine this yourself. Provided you don't
drill the hole all the way through the endbell you don't have to worry
about aluminum shavings getting into the motor.
Good luck,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
