EV Digest 4211
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Riker Electric Vehicles Website
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: French regulations
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Rabbit replacement
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Renault LeCar
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Range trailer
by "Ralph Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: American buisness model is wrong (on topic, eventually)
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: DC DC Converter, series in, parallel out?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Stirling Engine
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Power brakes (long)
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) New Beetle EV Pictures of Progress
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) TS Charging Rate
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) LM431 Mini-Me?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Getting more EV's on the road
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next
step
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Riker Electric Vehicles Website Address
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the
next > step
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next step
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: GE Motor specs?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next step
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next
step
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:42:54 -0800 (PST), Ivan Workman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- Ivan Workman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > Just want to let everyone know we have a website up
> > now. Please feel free to look around and let us know
> > of any improvements that we can make to it. We are
> > also want to gauge what the market demand is for a
> > city-class electric vehicle such as the Smart EV.
> > Any feedback would be great.
Very nice!
Any idea of the price yet?
Are you leasing the battery or selling?
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 19:45:53 +0100, Philippe Borges
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So converting to EV in Norway and importing it to France would be a solution
> though expensive, a true one.
We are certainly allowed to convert EVs here in the UK, even make from
scratch. We also have very cheap second hand car market at the
moment, and very expensive petrol (apparently it will soon be >£1 per
litre!). So it is a bit strange that there are very few conversions
running about.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it's a truck or pickup with a gross vehicle weight over 6,000 lbs, you
can write off up to $100,000.
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> Except they changed the tax laws and now (Heavy) SUVs have a
>> limited tax write-off, $25,000 IIRC.
>
> "Only" $25,000?!?
> --
> "The two most common elements in the universe
> are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have never seen the brakes on a renault le-car but if I remember
correctly from school, there are 2 kinds of disk brake calipers out
there, single acting and double acting
The single acting are the most common and have piston or pistons on one
side and a floating caliper, the whole caliper must move to release the
rear pad. On these, clean and well greased guide pins are important.
The dual acting are what most high end,racing,wilwood,brimboo style
calipers are like, they have 2 small pistons per side and square orings
to make it easier to retract the shoe and the caliper is fixed. This
also doubles the braking capacity for the same hydraulic pressure
There is also a third type of brakes, the el cheapo that had a fixed
caliper and a single piston that moved the rotor or flexed the single
disk rotor, but we will just ignore those, Yugo maybe. I don't remember.
I don't know if wilwood brakes can be retrofitted to the le-car, it is
not listed on their site. Does it share brake systems with other cars or
are there other models that have better calipers you can swap in?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
North Johnston High School in North Carolina entered a trailer full of
batteries behind their electric Triumph Spitfire in the EV Challenge in
2000. They were not allowed to compete with it since it violated a couple
of key competition rules. It was made out of a small trailer designed to
pull behind a motorcycle. The trailer was filled with Deka batteries and
had its own ZIVAN charger. Their design concept was centered around driving
the car to a autocross event powered by the trailer batteries, charging the
trailer while they raced with the Hawkers onboard the car, then travel home
on either battery pack. The Spitfire is listed at
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/167.html . There is also a pretty neat
picture of it autocrossing at www.evchallenge.org
Ralph Goodwin
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 12:46 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Range trailer
On 17 Mar 2005 at 18:04, Christopher Zach wrote:
> Anyone ever towed a trailer of batteries behind an EV for long-range
> trips?
Olaf Bleck and Team New England ran a Solectria Force with a trailerful of
batteries in the Tour de Sol a few years ago. IIRC, the first year he came
in first but was disqualified for some reason. He was back a year or two
later and I think took second place.
My memory of this stuff is foggy, so I may be getting the details wrong, but
at any rate he / they did it and it worked rather well.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above will be discarded. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats
tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read.
-- Karl Kraus
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Count me in, I can be pretty creative at times. :))
ivo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Jeff Shanab
Enviado el: sábado, 19 de marzo de 2005 14:46
Para: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Asunto: American buisness model is wrong (on topic, eventually)
Long ago it was the american dream to start small and grow ito something
big, it was something advertised about big companies, how they got
they're humble beginnings.
Now those same buisnesses seem to have manipulated the system to the
point where people don't even try anymore, they know some big buisness
will just legislate them out . We now teach our kids to sell-out when
they have an idea, to the first big conglomerant who would buy them. I
guess this IS a rant.
Who says we must hit the ground with 1/2 million cars on friday april
10th at 5pm simoultanously in the 25 major cities??? The ones who can
:-) we need to stop listening to them.
It is not just cars.
It is getting to the point where all the small startup companies and
even new jobs in big companies just "go over seas" because no-one in
american buisness will take them seriously, they won't return emails or
sell them product unless they commiit to 10 tons per month. It is not
that much cheaper to have something done in china becasue of delivery
issues it is the , dare I say, greedy american distributers that won't
do their job, they want to charge 100% markup to drop ship you a ton
from the factory. what is that???
http://www.predmaterials.com/ these guys have everything needed to
make batteries, but I only wanted enought material to make 100 to 200,
50ah to 200ah li-ion cells per month and the sales(and I think owner)
scoffed at me. it took multiple emails to get the no. I have had similar
luck with most american companies, no prices, they all ask what are you
going to use it for, how much, what will you comit to, what are you
willing to pay, grrrr. I already have 4 or 5 french, english,
austrailian replies with pricing, delivery, options.....
What if we took a hint from the open source movement with lots of people
working on an open design
First we choose a common donar vehicle to create a kit for, getting all
of us to agree on a particular model may be fun, but by the time we
wittle it down, it should be a well rounded choice.
Each "franchise" builds this "kit" and there would be approved people to
work on it in multiple cities for repairs or upgrades
we avoid car carriers because donars are aquired locally. We avoid
safety testing because it is done already, We don't sell cars, we sell
the conversion kit installed in the customers donar, which we also can
sell them as a component of the kit on a seperate invoice?
We avoid shipping batteries because of weight, but there are local
distributers. As a collective group we could make a deal with Exide for
example to standardise the price and make dated sets avail to the
frenchises.
After Joe's EV's of smallville gets established and sells a few and we
get the feedback, we go to work on the next model.
Maybe Classics is a great niche. We would be "saving" classics. There
are probably lots of people who would like the hi performance without
the fuel cost (environmental and $)
Say a small pu, a small sedan, and eventually a small SUV
maybe the first product to have done is the range extender trailer
genset allowing people faced with the one car delimma the open to make
that one car an EV.
When the Li-ion comes of age, it becomes an upgrade or a new model.
Each model will allow the diverse expressions of designs that this list
has to offer
Warning: Model brainstorming ahead.
There will be the clean muscle cars , the evette, stallion?
a 68 mustang with z2k, ford 9" and a t5
Fiero, camaro, corvette
Low cost performance
above with zilla 1k stock drive train add Z cars the ZEV (maybe
that is what I should call my eletric Z car!)
The nicad "rice rocket" lowered airbagged acura
The environmentalist
the 4 door AC sedan with litium ion
The weekender/sleeper
Dual motored , Z2k, 25 orbitals, primer and a kickass stereo
I wonder if we could come up with a battery box dimension that would
house either litium ion,nicad, or exides.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<geekmode=on>
A little off topic but I happen to bs a little into computers
and Derrick is right , it is the difference between RISK and CISC
the pentium takes between 5 and 253 cycles for each instruction and uses
a deepl pipeline get high throuput , all kinds of tricks like
speculative processing and dual pipelines are used to compensate for the
flushing of the pipeline that is requred when a branch is executed.
Risc chips get basically 1 instruction per cycle comapred to the
pentium's average of about 14 cycles per instruction
However, not 14 times faster because the simpler instructions require
longer code.
it works out to be about a 2.5 to 1 ratio , they used to say 3 to 1.
the RISC is cooler, uses less power and simpler to build, multiprocess,
task swap but the code is 30-50% longer
If you want to ruin a Csci party pick one and state it is best, the
evening is shot.
<geekmode=off>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Robison wrote:
Thanks -- this makes sense, except I'm not sure what you mean about the
diode. A Google search for the quoted phrase "commoning diode" yields 2
hits, each of them in EVDL discussions involving you. :o)
Is this a normal diode serving a particular purpose, or a special type of
component?
Each power supply should have a series diode on its output, and outputs
of the diodes can be connected in parallel. This prevents one supply
from sending power into another supply.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Andrea and All,
--- Andrea Bachus Kohler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Please don't hold back Andrea, tells us what
you really think ;-))
>> or EV dependent.
> To get the ultimate in acceleration
> 'performance'...,
> To get the ultimate in handling 'performance'...,
> Why must you separate acceleration and handling out?
> I think Lee's point was that the vehicle needs to
> be overall good at everything. Sure, one can build
> a fast EV, or one that handles well, or one that
> goes a long range, but hardly ever one that can do
> all three.
I agree it should be an all around good EV in all
areas. This is no problem though if you are building
them as you can put in anything you want in the way of
power, handling, ect. We have the talent, experience
on this list to do it all! In the EV part probably
more experience that anywhere in the world!
> For a long time, I've held my breath every time
> someone, including Lee, raves about the
> Solectria Sunrise, all because it ran so far on a
> charge using hand selected,
> cherry-picked, hand built NiMH Ovonics' best
So! We have never even said we would use NiMH as
they have way too many problems not to mention high
costs.
But by the time this gets built, Li-ions would
easily match this range at an optional cost that's
reasonable.
Though for planning, Ni-cads would be better
suited for their long life of 20+ yrs, hardiness, cold
tolerance, good pricing of less than AGM's, along with
an easy 150 or so mile range in a Sunrise.
> >From Jerry Dycus:
> >Of all the EV's built the Sunrise seems to be the
> best one if it can be put into
> >production.
>
> What on earth, makes it 'the best'? Other than an
Eff! While the first may have lacked refinement,
others seem to look good. If not it is easy to fix in
the tooling stage. It's combo of great aero,
lightweight is what made it do great range along with
hand picked batts.
> impressive range per charge, and
> that's only because of it's enormous ahr capacity
> from 'unobtantium' Ovonics hand-selected
> batteries, this car does not excel at
> 'anything'...in fact, it is inferior to even
> marginal vehicles. It had potential to be the best
> because it's "plan" was to be offered at something
> reasonable, like $20K.
If done in 50,000/yr lots with ni-cads with a 150
mile range there is no reason that couldn't be true.
For another $10k it could have Li-ions for the same
300 mile range and as the materials for them are
cheap. In the next several yrs li-ions price should
come down a lot so to meet the $20k price, 300 mile
range in 50k lots.
>
> I saw it again at EVS 14 back in '97 in
> Orlando...sat in it, checked it out from top to
> bottom, and drove it.
> Even back then, Lee was going on about this 'car'.
> Gotta tell ya folks....it looks like a 5
> year old built this! It had a poor quality (at best)
It is a prototype! And as you say, probably rushed.
But that can be fixed easily.
And as for your comments on performance, we could
put any size power a customer wanted, No?
> >From David Roden:
>
> >The Sunrise is a remarkable EV, in many ways a
> much more sophisticated
> >design than the EV-1.
>
> (finger in mouth, gaggg) Better than an EV-1? I
> don't think David meant it was a better car than an
> EV1. He said the design in some ways could be
> considered more sophisticated. This couldbe as
> simple as choosing an all composite body vs. plastic
> panels on aluminum frame, or designing a 4 seater
> vs. a 2 seater.
> Let's see...Sunrise, 0-60 in an agonizing 17
> seconds...EV-1, 0-60 in 7.6 seconds (Road
> &
> track tested).
It's a better EV because it was much lighter, sat 4
people, good aero, much better range and cost much
less than the EV-1 to build by $100,000 each or
more!!!
The difference you talk about is a corp with
hundreds of millions vs one trying the same thing on 1
million. I think Selectria did very well considering
that.
> Sunrise, wavy, ill-fitting body
> panels...EV-1, the look, fit, and
> feel of a quality import.
Again it would cost less than $10,000 to make the
changes needed to make the Sunrise tooling up to EV-1
appearance standards which it should be.
And we don't have to follow anything of the
Sunrise that we don't like as we would be building
from scratch so can make it to it's potential instead
of a prototype easily.
To a large degree we don't even have to do the
Sunrise but rather follow it's concepts and make a
totally new EV even better.
As for the comments another listee said about
intellectual property being stolen by copying it or
another car, that's not the case in the legal sense.
Just by minor changes and changing the name makes it a
totally new EV.
I'd actually rather do a Matrix size, style EV as
it has more room for batts, crash space and probably
more curb appeal. But would go with anything the group
decides as long as it gets EV's into production.
As far as survival in a crash it is not that hard
to do in composites with the use of foam and kevlay
car make it quite safe. From the crash testing of
composite reg, race cars, they seem to do quite well.
Check Horlacher EV I think it is for one example.
For repair it can be repaired by trained people
more easily than metal cars are because you just buy a
whole section of what's damaged and splice it on.
While it will be a little heavier to get the same
strength, it's only a matter of a few extra pounds at
the joints of the Ev and new repair section. We do it
all the time with boats, ect in composites.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Back in late 2003, the Stirling engine community got quite excited by an
article in Discover Magazine regarding a 250W Stirling generator being
developed by IdeaLabs. It used a pedal concentrator arrangement to focus
sun light on one end of a Stirling. Unfortunately, a few months later, the
company switched to a fresnel/photovoltaic design instead.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Joe and All,
It sounded a lot easier than all the other
fixes.
Thanks,
jerry dycus
--- Joe Strubhar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's what I ended up doing on my Datsun Kingcab,
> and it helped a lot!
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 8:31 AM
> Subject: Re: Power brakes (long)
>
>
> > Hi Jeff and All,
> > Don't most PB systems have a heavy duty
> > spring in them against to brake pedal, probably to
> > return the brakes reliably off until need, and
> > removing it greatly decreases the leg power
> needed,
> > enough in many cases where you no longer need a
> vac
> > booster?
> > Didn't people remove this spring and
> the
> > Vac booster and have a decent brake system?
> > Thanks,
> > jerry dycus
> >
> >
> > --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > A-ha , something I can comment on
> > >
> > > The vacuum brake booster is an interstingly
> simple
> > > device. As you sit
> > > on that hill without moving your foot it's
> assitance
> > > goes down, but as
> > > sonn as you command more by pressing on it it
> gives
> > > you more assistance.
> > >
> > > It consists of 2 chambers seperated by a
> diaphram,
> > > engine vacuum goes
> > > to both sides of this diaphram so there is no
> net
> > > assistance.
> > > When you step on the brake the rod moves
> forward
> > > and a washer covers
> > > some holes (there is more than one design)
> blocking
> > > the vacuum to the
> > > back side while a second washer opens the back
> side
> > > to atmosphere.
> > > Atmospheric pressure (14psi) pushes on the
> diaphram
> > > and gives your foot
> > > some help. It can't get ahead of you because
> when it
> > > catches up to the
> > > pedal, the air valve closes and the vacuum valve
> > > opens.
> > >
> > > I often wondered if I could flip one around and
> use
> > > 28psi of air
> > > pressure and an aircompressor and tank on board.
> > > Then I would have the
> > > same amount of force and air for my tires.
> > > looks like I would need 50psi and a regulator
> for
> > > the booster. The 4x4
> > > magazines have air compressors for mounting on
> fan
> > > belts and I just used
> > > an AC compressor (old crankcase style,york) and
> a
> > > tank, the pressure
> > > switch went to the clutch. That york could
> probably
> > > make vacuum quick
> > > enough for your application, People use them to
> > > pump done AC and for
> > > vacuum bagging.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
> site!
> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are some pictures of the complete drive system installation:
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_Installation.html
The battery boxes:
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatteryBoxConstruction.html
I will try too shoot a video today of the "test drive"
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The ThunderSky site says that .3C is the "best" charging rate for TS cells.
For 200Ah cells, that's 60A. I've read where other people have said that
60A is really the "max" charging rate, and that slower rates would be better
for the cells. Anyone have experience with this (Victor, Jukka?)? Would I
be better to charge my cells at the lowest rate that would get them
recharged overnight, and reserve the higher charging rate only for when I
needed to get recharged quickly? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there a chip similar to the LM431 that has a 1.25V reference instead of
the LM431's 2.5V reference? I'm interested in making a circuit that will
tell me when a BB600 cell reaches 1.55V. Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan and All,
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Typically, when someone has a car such as a Mustang
> or a Camaro and
> they dump thousands of dollars into it for
> performance mods, if they
> decide to sell the vehicle, they usually cannot sell
> it for the amount
> they have invested in it.
>
> Is this true with EV conversions?
That depends ;-p
If doing a Factory Five Cobra you could even make
money doing it.
A GT-40 style Valkrie by Fiberfab might even sell
better, higher price and cost less to buy the kit with
slightly more work.
First call them and you might make a good deal on
a lower cost on the body, chassis kit!
Then you would need to make one macked out. If
you are going to get someone to put out $25-35K, you
need a product with sex appeal.
For the Cobra that would be doing it the Wayland
way with Orbitals, Zilla and done in great detail with
gold connectors, ect so it looks great, show car
quaility.
If you are good at doing that type of work, do
one for yourself, make a website and offer them for
sale at a price you can make a profit at. Luckily the
second one and those after both cost less and are
easier to do so getys more profitable as it goes
along.
This works easily if you want the first one for
yourself as you would have little extra costs except
for a website and some time. And for customer in a
rush you can sell yours. This puts you in the drivers
seat in selling them instead of them trying to steal
one from a despreate seller like they did to Steve
Clunn.
If you don't want one them it's a different story
;-)) But if you do it has few downsides.
But EV's are going up in price as few are on the
market so it should sell for a profit if done right.
You should be able to do it for $20k if you watch
yourself and plan well not including your labor.
Another thing is selling an EV kit to other F-5 or
other Cobra buyers who want to do their own as another
income source.
But I wouldn't build one on spec. And make sure
there is a at least 50% deposit on one before you
start!
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
> You all know the prices of the needed EV components
> and how they add
> up. Say for example, a Dodge Neon or a Chevy
> Cavalier was
> converted(or some other car). Could it be sold for
> what was tied up
> in it?
>
> How about in the case of one of these Cobra kit
> cars? Ten grand right
> off the bat for the kit. When the conversion is
> said and done, would
> this thing be a money pit or would it be able to be
> sold for what it
> was worth?
>
> http://www.factoryfive.com/
>
> I would like to do some high quality conversions and
> get them on the
> road. I have plenty of time, a garage, tools, and
> I'm confident that
> I could do it. Is it financially prudent though?
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree with the great posts, but not at all with the take it off list
attitude. I may not participate much in this discussion, but I would like to
participate in the company, or what ever it might be called. And I am sure that
there are many more people like me just lurking out there waiting with their 1K
to throw down and say make me part of it....
So keep it on the list for now please, this is where it came from...
Thanks
Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next
step
> There have been some really great thoughts posted on this thread by:
>
> Jerry Dycus
> Ryan Stotts
> John Westlund
> Mike Chancey
> Seth Allen
> Bob Rice
> David Roden
> Lee Hart
>
> It seems to me like this is something we should take off-list to
> another forum, to see what we can do as next steps. It doesn't seem
> like it would be a good use of the EV List resources. I have e-mailed
> the folks above to try to set up this next step.
>
> Let me know (off-list) if you would like to be notified about these
> opening steps also. Don't know where this may go, but I want to help
> get the ball rolling.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Mark
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ivan:
Most interesting all around. For my Honda Civic/AC Propulsion
conversion I'd like to buy the battery pack. Actually, I'd really like
two.
/Bob
On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:54 AM, Ivan Workman wrote:
--- Ivan Workman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hello Everyone,
Just want to let everyone know we have a website up
now. Please feel free to look around and let us know
of any improvements that we can make to it. We are
also want to gauge what the market demand is for a
city-class electric vehicle such as the Smart EV.
Any feedback would be great. Website Address is:
www.rikerelectricvehicles.com
Sincerely,
Ivan Workman
Riker Electric Vehicles Corporation
(909) 964-3488
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile
phone.
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electric_vehicles_for_sale/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mark, sounds like a plan. Include me in.
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC
http://www.evadc.org
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On 3/21/05 5:05 AM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> wrote:
> From: Mark Dodrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:25:07 -0800
> To: EV List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next
> step
>
> There have been some really great thoughts posted on this thread by:
>
> Jerry Dycus
> Ryan Stotts
> John Westlund
> Mike Chancey
> Seth Allen
> Bob Rice
> David Roden
> Lee Hart
>
> It seems to me like this is something we should take off-list to
> another forum, to see what we can do as next steps. It doesn't seem
> like it would be a good use of the EV List resources. I have e-mailed
> the folks above to try to set up this next step.
>
> Let me know (off-list) if you would like to be notified about these
> opening steps also. Don't know where this may go, but I want to help
> get the ball rolling.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rush and All,
--- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I agree with the great posts, but not at all with
> the take it off list attitude. I may not participate
> much in this discussion, but I would like to
> participate in the company, or what ever it might be
> called. And I am sure that there are many more
> people like me just lurking out there waiting with
> their 1K to throw down and say make me part of
> it....
Then you and others interested can join the new
list letting this one help keep existing EV's or
conversions and nubies do their thing without
overloading them with stuff about commericalizing,
producing EV's.
Also many parts of producing production EV's
wouldn't be on topic on this list which should be
limited to conversions, keeping EV's on the road and
educating nubies, ect on EV's.
Many quit the EVDL from too many posts or don't
join in the first place and some would only want to
hear about producing EV's.
Also many from the other lists like the EV-1,
Force EV, ect would join the production EV list but
don't want the volume of this list to wade through.
By only having people interested in getting EV
production lines going allows us to target posts to
what's needed.
So please join it when it opens, it will be easy.
HTH's
jerry dycus
>
> So keep it on the list for now please, this is where
> it came from...
>
> Thanks
> Rush
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for
> EV-1--let's go to the next step
>
>
> > There have been some really great thoughts posted
> on this thread by:
> >
> > Jerry Dycus
> > Ryan Stotts
> > John Westlund
> > Mike Chancey
> > Seth Allen
> > Bob Rice
> > David Roden
> > Lee Hart
> >
> > It seems to me like this is something we should
> take off-list to
> > another forum, to see what we can do as next
> steps. It doesn't seem
> > like it would be a good use of the EV List
> resources. I have e-mailed
> > the folks above to try to set up this next step.
> >
> > Let me know (off-list) if you would like to be
> notified about these
> > opening steps also. Don't know where this may go,
> but I want to help
> > get the ball rolling.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
M.G. wrote:
> On Saturday I spent about 4 hours stripping out a scrapped fork lift
> Does anybody have any way of possibly helping me figure out if this
> motor will haul me around in my car that weighs approx 3100lbs in
> ICE configuration.
>
> GE Motors
> part number 8504667 AU1840
> DC volts 36/48 Serial number OR-9-280-OR
> KW 14.00 Rpm 1000 Encl of C
> Duty 60 min Class H Amps 330
> Model number 5BT1336B167A
No trouble! That's a *big* motor; probably weighs 150-200 lbs, right?
You'll probably run it with a 96-120v pack. You'll want a high-current
controller like a Zilla, not a Curtis; this monster can easily pull 1000
amps.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry...
If you look at the bottom of the email you'll see that it is signed Marc
Kohler.
Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1
> Hi Andrea and All,
> --- Andrea Bachus Kohler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> Please don't hold back Andrea, tells us what
> you really think ;-))
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next
step
> I agree with the great posts, but not at all with the take it off list
attitude. I may not participate much in this discussion, but I would like to
participate in the company, or what ever it might be called. And I am sure
that there are many more people like me just lurking out there waiting with
their 1K to throw down and say make me part of it....
>
> So keep it on the list for now please, this is where it came from...
>
Hi All:
Yes! Good point, we need to stay tiogether, as ya never know who's
lerking, for good(hopefully) or bad? I like to think that The List is the
premier source in EV stuff. I like what I 'm seeing on the Sunrise and Jerry
Dycus car, etc. I have given it a bit of serious thought. Can Jerry build 10
cars, 3 wheelers IF he gets 10 orders? I'd be ready to count as [EMAIL
PROTECTED] I
don't know how he would do it, but he seems like a voice of reality here.
Not to mention his expertise in Fabricating stuff, like boats. We HAVE to do
something to tap this great resource, youListers!
OK I would love to dive in with the Sunrise, after all, it is
sureashell a more practical body than EV-1 . I Loved the EV-1 too, the
Factory fit and finish, that John Wayland points out, " Gemlike finish" he
spoke of of some EV in Posts Past. This is why the Hondas and Toyotas we
have evoke a quality goods, nicely built. And I consider My Prius plenty
fast, for most of us!Was happy with a Sentras' GO and Horrors! A Diseasel
Rabbit!EVen. The Sunrise I met on Worden's Bos-nyc trek looked very
finished, but I dont think the damn windows cranked up an' down?? Yet the
Chinesy Hai Bau had nice Electric windows, I couldn't help but be inpressed!
After my failure at Citi Car to come up with decent working windows!Betya
could BUY the E motor window unit from the Good Folks in China?5 bux
each?<g>!But I would settle for a Rabbit's cranky ones.
Oh Yeah! Wanna run this one by the tech folks. While brainstorming with
a buddy on the train, he sez just put a big diode across each battery,
especially Ni Cads, I showed him a 600, of course in the right polarity, so
you don't get a short circus! He said that when the battery was out of juice
so you wouldn't reverse it, the diode would "Carry" the pooped cell.Carry
current by rather than reverse it. Down side you would need a hellova lot of
Big Diodes, for each cell, maybe for a scooter? What do ya think?More fun
with diodes a extreamly useful gadget!More than just controllers an;'
chargers!
OK, back on topic; Sounds like Rush is ready, to put a bit of his money
where his mouth is, as , I hear a bunch of ya nodding. IF we were organized?
OK I have struck a chord here, rather than tripping over it.I hate to say
it, but the EV-1 is probably gunna be put to death? But you never know.
April First is close, they COULD announce a resumption of production<g>!
Would like to put the Sunrise as a priority to see the light of day. With a
name like that, anyhow?Jerry, you were involved with that?Place in RI is
ready to go? Would they sell to anybody that walked in off the pavement?
Just bolt yur Geo suspension to? Whose glass? Windshield, etc? I have a
lovely brand new 9 inch motor, in the garage, ready to go. As A dealer for
Netgain, I'm trying to actually STOCK the product. Sorry, shameless plug. I
think ya could direct drive Sunrise with a ZillA controller. I'm NOT racing
it, but if it gave Prius or EVen Rabbit get up and go, Gees! Just let me
keep up with traffic!Pass as needed as I do with my million pound Rabbit!
A DC Sunrise, cheaper to startup/build, although I would like the AC
for regen, or my fantesy world DC Sep-ex controller/motor combo, but I would
settle for off the shelf offerings-Warp Moptor Zilla, PFC WhatEVer charger.
Led acids for now, til we get some Lithiums out and running.Or Nicads?
Saft's? What did Solectria use for a rear end? Built their own?OK the 24k
question!? Anybody lerking at Solectria? James? Got yur ears on. How do YOU
feel about offering Sunrise up for production? After all, it IS your car,
YOU have the call on this one, before speculating about building it. So
It's Solectria's call to begin with.Patented? Like Harley Davidson TRIED to
Patent the SOUND of the V 2 bike engine. Seth, is there anybody in
particular to talk to at the Solectria? They did join up with Asure
Something.What would THEY think I wonder?
Just a bit more Monday mourning quarterbacking.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know how many of you are on the EVList from yahoo, but a perfect
example of fragmentation that undermines the EV concept has, in my opinion,
just appeared there.
George Clooney has ordered a Tango T600, or at least wants one quickly....
Here's a quote from him ---
"here's the deal...by may 1 i'm out of the country for 4
months....before that i have a film to be released that is based on
our thirst for oil..and the results of tying an entire country to the
whims of saudi arabia....it would have the best effect if i'm driving
this car as soon as possible....my only goal in buying a prototype
electric car for 85,000 is to try and get enough people talking about
it that you can mass produce these babies and we can begin the real
work of making our country less oil dependent....so yes..if it's just
about having the first one ...i'd be happy to drive it until may and
then just switch it out with one of the second batches....i'm not
trying to jump in line because i'm well known and want my way...i
simply want it to get seen as soon as possible...nationally..and
maybe draw some interest...i should also learn how to type ...and
spell...but one step at a time"
There you go. He is willing to spend $85K to 'maybe draw some interest', what
an understatement....
Now maybe, just maybe if we contact him, he might be willing to add 'some
interest' to the concept 'replacement for EV-1' in the form of a couple
grand....
Anybody care to contact him to let him know that there is a group of EV experts
that want to start producing a new, viable, EV? In fact does somebody want to
propose to him that for $85K, a group of us experts (not me for sure) will
produce a special EV for him that will go 100 MPH, have a 150 Mile trip, (just
pulling numbers out of the air) and have it ready in the time frame he wants?
Just a thought, but an exciting one. Feasible? I don't know, but I would surely
think it might be worth it, both financially and PR wise. It would have to be a
'I gotta drop everything to build an EV for George Clooney for $85K' type
effort.
Rush
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
US Body Source in Florida says their chevy full size truck fiberglass
body lightens the truck by 1500 lbs! Imagine a 1-ton truck, minus 800
lbs ICE stuff, minus 1500 lbs with the fiberglass body. Starting with
a 4500 lb ICE truck, that would be a 2200 lb glider that could hold
4300 lbs! You could easily do an EV that was 50%+ batteries by
weight.
The downside is this is about 4 small EV's worth of batteries and
motors! The cost would be high, and you would need some serious power
to recharge overnight.
--- Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I love the look of that year F-250. If it's anything like my '85
> was, you could
> fit lots of batteries under the cab and bed. Swap out your tires
> for some
> high pressure truck tires, put some airbags on it and you could
> make a
> Red Beastie-type conversion with a little more cab room.
>
> My F250 was about 4,800 pounds with fuel, but take out the 460, two
> 19
> gallons gas tanks, monster exhaust system, HD radiator and smog
> pump,
> downsize the A/C to a smaller unit (it's way too much for a single
> cab),
> and I think you could easily get the glider into the 3,500 lb.
> range. Yours
> is even more aero than mine, though.
>
> For your engine and genset range extender, you might be able to get
> one
> of those hitch-mounted shelves that people use to haul a motorcycle
> or
> ATV. Use a 3-cylinder Geo Metro engine and genset for your range
> extender.
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> > Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:04:38 -0800
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
> >
> > Frankly, I am considering such a conversion. Not quite at the
> Hummer level
> > though.
> > I'm looking at a Ford F-250. My 93 model has a 4400lb payload
> > capacity. This is high enough that I can put 2000 lbs of battery
> in it,
> > and still have a useful payload size.
> > I'd really like to get the numbers to figure out what kind of
> range I could
> > get if I used 40 T-145's, Z(1or2)K, and a couple of 8/9/11 inch
> > motors. (Which motor would be "best"? Do I really need a Z2K,
> or would a
> > Z1K be enough?)
> > I've been starting to gather the numbers to figure out the cost,
> but I also
> > need to find out what "other" items are needed. (How many
> contactors of
> > what type?, Power Steering/Brakes/Air Conditioning
> > setups? DC-DC? Probably a PFC-50)
> >
> > With this kind of size and payload, I could afford to have a
> slide in
> > module with a 4cyl car engine and a 20KW gen set to extend the
> range.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
