EV Digest 4213
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: pusher trailer info
by "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RAV4 EV on ebay $36k
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Riker Electric Vehicles Website
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Russco Charger
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: American business model
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) the next step
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Meet George Jetson
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next step
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: the next step
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1 and Re: Rabbit replacement
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) WIRED Magazine - Hybrids Front Page 4/2005
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1 and Re: Rabbit replacement
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) WIRED Magazine - Letters to the Editors
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: GE Motor specs?
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: GE Motor specs?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Warning, Re: NiCad Bonanza.....
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: GE Motor specs?
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: GE Motor specs?
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Getting more EV's on the road
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Selectris Sunrise...
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Open Source EV Kit
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: American business model
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: American Buisness model is wrong...
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: New Beetle passes challenging driveway test!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
All this discussions about pusher trailers reminds me to announce that
my pusher trailer is up for sale. See
http://www.jstraubel.com/EVpusher/EVpusher.htm for more information.
History: This is JB Straubel's original Pusher "version 1". I bought
it from him several years ago, ready to go, for $500. I used it to get
my Rabbit up to Sacramento, and it worked great! On the way back,
though, the engine overheated (I pushed it too hard), and I had it
completely rebuilt (several hundred more bucks). I thought it would be
a worthwhile investment, as I was spending hundreds bringing my car to
various NEDRA races, but my situation changed, and the arrival of a baby
1.5 years ago means the days of long roadtrips to racetracks are over
for a while. I haven't used it much since then, but it is still legally
registered as a trailer in CA. It is located in the SF Bay Area
(Fremont).
I bought a real gas tank for it to replace the two plastic gas cans (see
pictures). It will need to get mounted and the fuel line plumbed. I
also painted it red. It looks better, but not much. Still will turn
heads.
I'd be happy to answer any further questions offline. All told, I have
a bit over $1000 invested in it and will consider any reasonable offer.
Dean Grannes
1979 VW Rabbit, Blue Phantom
1959 MGA, Fire Chief
Pusher trailer
Zappy scooter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4536588132&category=31872
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Larry,
Here is the URL for the Riker Electric Vehicles Website
http://www.rikerelectricvehicles.com
Check it out.
Chip Gribben
Riker Electric Vehicles Webmaster
http://www.rikerelectricvehicles.com
On 3/21/05 4:29 PM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> wrote:
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:52:35 EST
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Riker Electric Vehicles Website
>
> In a message dated 3/21/2005 1:49:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> It is good to here from you. I only got yahoo and couldn't find your
> website!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike, I am concerned that your charger is not set correctly and
you might be forceably putting too much current into a fully
charged pack (this is a bad thing).
First, use an accurate voltmeter that has a digital read out.
Take a voltage reading across the pack when the pack is boiling
virously.
And another pack voltage reading after you feel the pack is fully
charged and the pack has rested an hour.
Please POST those readings to the EV List.
Assumptions:
You have a 96 Volt wet cell battery pack (ie US125's) and the
batteries are about a year old. You run your charger off a 120 VAC
20 amp outlet and the charger does not have the boost transformer.
Looking at http://usbattery.com/faq.htm a 96 VDC wet cell pack has
48 cells. When fully charged, the finishing charging voltage should
read (48 * 2.583 = 123.984) about 124 VDC. Anything higher and you
are truely cooking/boiling the pack.
(Worse case) with about 6.4 volts per battery and 18 batteries in
your pack, after your fully charged pack has rested you read about
(48 * 2.4 = ) 115.2 VDC.
Your charger pushes rectified AC into the pack, and will until
a set point voltage has been reached. If your set point voltage is
too high the charger will over charge fully charged batteries,
and cause that vigous boiling you mentioned.
Vigous boiling sprays acid everywhere, corrioding your wiring and
causes leakage current to trip the gfi circuit in the charger
(you awake to find your EV is not fully charged. :A real bummer:
Your charger may only need to be set correctly. Check your manual
for the proper settings. Manufacturer contact info:
Russ Kaufman - designer, manufacturer and distributor
RUSSCO Electro-Mechanical Engineering
POB 3761, Santa Rosa CA 95402-3671 Ph and fax 707-542-4151
If your pack is quite old, you charger might be set for a healthy
pack voltage which your old pack pack can not now reach.
Please POSt to the EV List the formentioned requested voltage
readings, and tell us how old is your pack, and of what type of
batteries.
-Bruce
>>>
From: Mike
Date: Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:32 pm
Subject: Russco Charger
I have a Russco Charger for my flooded lead acid battery pack (96
volts). I have it set for a 2.5 hour shutoff, and generally allow
it to run for the entire time, but ecently I've noticed that the
batteries seem to be boiling vigorously. Is 2.5 hours to long or
do lead acids like to be charged this way? Should I adjust it to
a half hour shutoff? Mike
<<<
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ivo Jara wrote:
> Ok, Let's take it a little further, to reduce cost, let's get a modern
> flier, I have heard that complete cars in china are about 3.000 US$ brand
> new, this price is the estimated price at which these cars will arrive next
> year to Chile, so they must be at least 30% cheaper in China.
>
> Take a look a them: http://www.geelymetop.com/c001.htm
Hmm... you have a point here. I'm in the USA, and I'm sure it would be
nigh onto impossible to import one as a finished vehicle and get it
licensed.
However, I wonder if you could buy it in pieces, and ship it in that
way. Assemble it here, and *I* become the "manufacturer". By building it
as an EV, I sidestep all the pollution requirements. In most states, the
remaining requirements for a home-built vehicle are pretty lax. They
might treat it like any other kit-car.
Of course, I have to wonder if these Chinese cars are in fact pieces of
junk that I wouldn't drive, no matter what...
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was taping up my windows getting ready to spray my shop when I had this
thought about the Clooney car....
Since there is already news about the GM vigil and Alexandra Paul has gotten
arrested. Why not have her call Clooney, you know actor to actor, and get her
to pitch 'our' offer to build him an EV?
Also the great thoughts posters...
> > Jerry Dycus
> > Ryan Stotts
> > John Westlund
> > Mike Chancey
> > Seth Allen
> > Bob Rice
> > David Roden
> > Lee Hart
just to mention a few... could email him directly with the proposal and also
their CV so that he knows we are serious about this... we are aren't we?
Ok, that's all from me... ;-)
Rush
Tucson AZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Either a total nut or the reincarnation of Tesla. LR...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: Meet George Jetson
Howdy Folks
It is only Monday and I think we have found our winner for
wingnut-of-the-week email.
One of my favorite aspects of the EV business is the wide variety of
individuals from all over the world I get to talk with and/or email with
everyday.
Mondays are usually "over-unity wingnut day".
Enjoy! :^D
------------------------
Why not use the new Japanese ultra-capacitors or super-capacitors with a
resistor circuit to prevent dumping all the power at once? They would be
smaller , lighter,carry a larger energy level and most likely last much
longer than any battery on the market? Also if you wanted to, you could
release all the energy all at once for that extra power boost for passing
or hill climbing. Not only can they release all their energy fast they can
be charged very fast. NASA is considering using ultra-capacitors to
replace all batteries on the next versions of the MARS rovers,and Honda
intends to use capacitors to replace the battery banks. What else do you
need to improve to make it a more viable vehicle or equivalent to existing
vehicles without all the pollution and heavy gas and oil costs involved? I
believe radical changes are necessary to all existing vehicles. First off
they need to lose the wheels and suspensions and braking devices. None of
these assemblies are necessary. If this is too radical let me know. They
should float one to two feet off the nominal ground surface using an ionic
field for repulsion. Thrust and braking can be accomplished using ionic
repulsion as well. A Diode reactor can supply more than sufficient power
necessary for any and all power demands the vehicle could possibly make.
This would require a sliver of nuclear fuel and it would reduce the
nuclear waste deposits that are currently accumulating and waiting for
long term disposal. Since the vehicles do not require expensive road
surfaces the savings will be enormous, because the only infra-structure
that would be needed to be built would be tunnels and bridges to progress
over water or thru hills and mountains .Clearing of land of trees and
large obstacles will still be required. Of course this will mean the end
of the tire industry and brake and suspension manufacturers as well, but
it will generate new industries creating new propulsion systems and lift
designs. If safety considerations are a concern the Diode reactor is very
small and can be incased in an indestructable containment unit so that in
the event of a worst case senario the radioactive material will not be
released to the overall environment. The ride quality will be superb and
handling will be instantly reactive and positive. Acceleration will equal
aircraft plotted curves. The next step will be gravity neutralization or
nullification which NASA is presently investigating even now. When this is
available massive weights can and will be moved great distances with total
ease. Leaving this gravity well will be done with the heaviest payloads
imaginable. Transport in the future will be vastly different from today in
so many ways that little will be left that is still recognisable.
------------------------
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> I don't know how many of you are on the EVList from yahoo,
Which list would that be?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could also ask him about the idea we had for Jay Leno: convince GM to
sell him an unstripped EV1 that he promises never drive on-road, then you go
over and reverse engineer it.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rush
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 11:41 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: the next step
I was taping up my windows getting ready to spray my shop when I had this
thought about the Clooney car....
Since there is already news about the GM vigil and Alexandra Paul has gotten
arrested. Why not have her call Clooney, you know actor to actor, and get
her to pitch 'our' offer to build him an EV?
Also the great thoughts posters...
> > Jerry Dycus
> > Ryan Stotts
> > John Westlund
> > Mike Chancey
> > Seth Allen
> > Bob Rice
> > David Roden
> > Lee Hart
just to mention a few... could email him directly with the proposal and also
their CV so that he knows we are serious about this... we are aren't we?
Ok, that's all from me... ;-)
Rush
Tucson AZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
>
> On Mar 20, 2005, at 5:40 AM, jerry dycus wrote:
> > If Selectria doesn't want to play, it would be
> > easy to take a mold off of it and do the rest from
> > scratch with many more power, batt options if we can
> > talk the owner into it. The Sunrise's aero is very
> > good.
> > Or take a mold from any car for that matter. It's
> > easy, much easier, lower cost than building from
> > scratch and gives you sources of windshields, ect.
>
> On Mar 20, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> > What if we form a corporation. Each investor buys X shares of stock to
> > raise $50,000. Let's say there are 50 investors of $1000 each.
> >
> > The corporation buys the Solectria Sunrise currently being offered for
> > sale. The car is then carefully reverse-engineered, thoroughly
> > documented, and the plans provided to the investors.
>
> IANAL, but both of these proposals sound like theft of intellectual
> property.
But engineers and scientists would call it business as usual. :-)
The whole point is that you learn from others. The Sunrise (and EV1 and
the other recent high-tech EVs) represent tremendous advancements in the
state of the art of EVs. It would be a foolish waste to just crush them
or bury them in some warehouse or museum, and never use that knowledge.
If Solectria (or GM or Ford or...) had any plans to actually produce
these vehicles, then it would be different. But they do not! Frankly, if
any of them did, I would be more than happy to abandon my efforts to
build my own, and would simply buy it from them!
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andrea Bachus Kohler wrote [lots of stuff, mixed up with John Wayland's
and my comments so I can't tell who said what... snip]:
jerry dycus replied:
> Please don't hold back Andrea, tells us what you really think ;-))
I think (Mark?) Kohler is on our side -- most of the negative comments
were quoted from John Wayland.
I am reminded of a song from my college days at Michigan Tech (sung to
"My Eyes Have Seen the Glory of the Coming of the Lord):
Venus is a statue made entirely of stone
There's not a fig leaf on her; she's as naked as a bone
The Engineer gazed on her, and he said, "It's a disgrace!"
"That broken hunk of concrete; why ain't it been replaced?"
There are two ways to look at the Sunrise. You can see it as a malformed
hunk of fiberglass, full of imperfections, far inferior to any show car,
or even to any mass-produced car. Or, as a masterpiece of creative
engineering; an example of what *could* be if not crippled by lack of
money and time.
The Sunrise I saw at EVS-14 in 1997 certainly was crude and rough around
the edges. It was probably the first prototype they made, and it showed.
But, the engineer in me saw that it was a "diamond in the rough". It was
an imperfectly-built example of some brilliant ideas.
In comparison, the Toyota Prius (which was at the same show) was a
high-quality, perfectly finished, showroom-quality product. But, it
*should* have been -- it was a production vehicle in Japan at the time!
John Wayland's EVs are gorgeous. Meticulously built, hand crafted,
rolling works of art. But they are one-of-a-kind creations. The amount
of labor that goes into each one is enormous. And, they are highly
specialized and unique; older, discontinued models and styles that are
far out of the mainstream. They are the sort of cars that people admire,
but wouldn't actually buy and drive every day (at least, not for the
price John would have to charge to duplicate them)!
I look at the Sunrise quite differently. It could be the sort of car
that *anyone* would like enough to buy and drive as their daily driver.
Something like a Toyota Camry or Honda Civic (the most popular cars on
the road).
John Wayland's cars can change people's minds about EVs. Cars like the
Sunrise can actually get them to buy and drive them!
> We have the talent, experience on this list to do it all!
We do! But, we lack the experience and know-how to make a business doing
it.
> We have never even said we would use NiMH as they have way too many
> problems not to mention high costs. But by the time this gets built,
> Li-ions would easily match this range at an optional cost that's
> reasonable.
A key concept in the Sunrise is the replaceable battery box. This makes
it far easier to use *any* type of battery. The EV1 was "wrapped around"
its battery choice, making it hideously difficult to change. It's what
you do if you're a major car manufacturer and want to insure that people
only let YOU do the service, and buy new batteries only from YOU (at
inflated prices, of course).
I can easily imagine cheapskates running a flooded lead-acid pack;
others with Optimas; others with Saft nicads; still others with
Thunder-sky LiIon; and many other possibilities, depending on what the
owners wanted for cost, range, and performance.
>From Jerry Dycus:
>>> Of all the EV's built the Sunrise seems to be the best one...
Andrea Bachus Kohler wrote:
>> What on earth, makes it 'the best'?
It was designed from the ground up to be an EV. That means its potential
range, accelleration, safety, and overall performance capabilities are
perhaps 2:1 better than any ICE conversion. In other words, the same
motor, controller, and batteries in this car would outperform any ICE
conversion by a wide margin.
It's the same reason why the GM EV1 beat the other auto company's EV
conversions. All the rest were basically the same as every other ICE
vehicle, but with electric components tacked on.
>> impressive range per charge, only because of its enormous ahr
>> capacity from 'unobtantium' Ovonics hand-selected batteries
No, not "only" because of the Ovonic batteries; the power consumption
(wathours per mile) of the Sunrise is half that of any normal car. This
means you get double the range no matter what batteries are used.
>> It had potential to be the best because its "plan" was to be
>> offered at something reasonable, like $20K.
It was designed to be practical to manufacture in low quantities, with
relatively inexpensive materials and techniques. Of course, the one-off
handmade prototype was expensive. That's inevitable. Engineers call it a
"breadboard"; just something put together quickly to test the concept.
If you're going to crash-test it, do you think fit and finish matter? If
you're going to do range tests, do you think a fancy interior is
necessary?
> The difference you talk about is a corporation with
> hundreds of millions vs one trying the same thing on 1
> million. I think Selectria did very well considering
> that.
Yes. The existing Sunrises are equivalent to the original Impacts that
Aerovironment built for GM. They were also very crude and unfinished.
But they illustrated what the concept could do. GM spent years polishing
that concept to become the EV1.
> As far as survival in a crash it is not that hard
> to do in composites with the use of foam and kevlay
> car make it quite safe.
A key point is that the Sunrise design has *been* crash tested. It makes
sense to copy it for that reason alone. If/when an EV company becomes
successful and profitable, they can do their own new designs and crash
test them.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's a good READ. And although he blatantly left out Plug-In-Haybrids,
he ( Brendan I. Koerner) makes the ultimate case for them at the end of
the second paragraph of his article where he says... and I quote...
" The secret to increasing my fuel economy, I realize, is to
manipulate the relationship between the two halves of the engine. The
more I can use the electric propulsion, the better mileage ill get. "
well DUHHHHH !!!
Also, another Cu-de-tah (sp) on Fool Cells shows up on page 101,
paragraph 3-4 Where Brendan says..." The Company (toyota) has its own
fuel cell prototype in the works, but executives are quick to note that
Prius is actually more efficient when you factor in how much energy it
takes to produce the hydrogen fuel in the first place.""
DuhhhHHH Again !
If you do not subscribe to "WIRED" or have access to read the articles
in their entirety, perhaps there is an on-line version... Any way, lets
write them, thank them, but try to get them to acknowledge what they
left out... i.e. Plug-In Hybrids....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry wrote:
> I have the list of parts somewhere.
Can you post the parts list? Then we could price "stock replacement"
parts using prices from an auto parts store to get an idea of what
they add up too.
> It's a very simple EV. It's obvious someone
> who knew what they were doing designed the composite
> body.
Have any good pics or details of it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is MY "Letters to the Editors" on their multi-page special on
Hybrids.....
Generally want to THANK WIRED for the articles, and especially for
bringing to light, the world fuel situation in light of the markets in
China and India growing EXPONENTIALLY.
Two paragraphs in Brendan Koerner's article stand out for me...
Page 98, paragraph 2
" The secret to increasing my fuel economy, I realize, is to
manipulate the relationship between the two halves of the engine. The
more I can use the electric propulsion, the better mileage ill get. "
This is where I MUST tell you about "Calcars.org" and their work with
modifying new Prius's to run harder and LONGER on electric by increasing
battery storage, tweaking software, and allowing owner/operators to
replenish at the end of an extension cord, rather than just buying more
GAS, thereby registering weekly m.p.g. figures between 80 to 100 miles
per gallon... Wish such FACTS could have been included.
and on page 101, bottom of paragraph 2 he says..." The Company (toyota)
has its own fuel cell prototype in the works, but executives are quick
to note that Prius is actually more efficient when you factor in how
much energy it takes to produce the hydrogen fuel in the first place."
This is so SO true !! And must be driven home, lest we be for another
100 years tied to the petroleum companies from which we would buy our
hydrogen....not to mention the increased mechanical and electrical
maintenance on FOOL cells, to the auto companies and dealers, over the
more simple and straightforward battery electrics.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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--- Begin Message ---
I for got to mention this motor is a separately excited motor . The
fields have approx ten times the windings and use 1/10 the current as a
series wound motor.
Mike G.
Lee Hart wrote:
M.G. wrote:
On Saturday I spent about 4 hours stripping out a scrapped fork lift
Does anybody have any way of possibly helping me figure out if this
motor will haul me around in my car that weighs approx 3100lbs in
ICE configuration.
GE Motors
part number 8504667 AU1840
DC volts 36/48 Serial number OR-9-280-OR
KW 14.00 Rpm 1000 Encl of C
Duty 60 min Class H Amps 330
Model number 5BT1336B167A
No trouble! That's a *big* motor; probably weighs 150-200 lbs, right?
You'll probably run it with a 96-120v pack. You'll want a high-current
controller like a Zilla, not a Curtis; this monster can easily pull 1000
amps.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
M.G. wrote:
> I forgot to mention this motor is a separately excited motor.
> The fields have approx ten times the windings and use 1/10 the
> current as a series wound motor.
That is even better!
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Eric, Bill, Rick and All,
--- Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.alcad.com/
>
> Rick wrote:
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Rick, do you know the manufacturer?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Hi Bill,
> >They simply are marked Alcad. Some have warning
> lables about gas hazards and
> >some seem to be imprinted with Made In Holland.
> >
> >So, does anyone know where I can find info about
> charging/cycling, etc.?
There are several types of ni-cads out there, We
can only use the higher amp output type. Many are made
that are for UPS that only put out low amps for a long
time where we need high amps for as long as possible
;-)) with a good power/weight ratio.
But the last Alcads I saw were low power/weight
ratio and low amp output. Not what we need. If you
need them for a home power system, maybe but be
careful what you get for an EV.
Also make sure they are good as only SAFT takes
theirs back for shipping to recycle. Others may be
very costly!!!
But many times you will get ni-cads for free
because they don't want to get stuck with recycling so
there are real bargins out there if you are careful
and check them out to see if they are the right type.
That's how I got mine, over 30 yrs old and still
putting out more power than their ratings.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
> >
> >Thanks.
> >Regards,
> >Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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Rod is working on a modified controller for me. Do you think 500 amps
will be enough?
Mike
Lee Hart wrote:
M.G. wrote:
I forgot to mention this motor is a separately excited motor.
The fields have approx ten times the windings and use 1/10 the
current as a series wound motor.
That is even better!
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It gets even more interesting when I look at the controllers. I have
several of these controllers and some are marked 600 amps @ 48 volts,
but others are marked 740 amps @ 48 volts. I took them apart and the
fet's are the same number, What could be different other than programming?
Mike G.
Lee Hart wrote:
M.G. wrote:
I forgot to mention this motor is a separately excited motor.
The fields have approx ten times the windings and use 1/10 the
current as a series wound motor.
That is even better!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
If you are good at doing that type of work, do
one for yourself, make a website and offer them for
sale at a price you can make a profit at. Luckily the
second one and those after both cost less and are
easier to do so getys more profitable as it goes
along.
I was talking to Jon www.grassrootsev.com web master about a part of the
site being a directory of people who would like to do conversions for
people. So anyone anywhere could find somebody near them to convert their
car or pickup .
ads might look like this
Steve Clunn . Fort Pierce Fl.
I've converted these cars
http://www.grassrootsev.com/convert.htm
I have all the tools needed and a place to convert your car
I can work with you , doing only the part you can't, saving you money, or do
the whole thing
I would be willing to do this for $25 per hour
772 971-0533
I'm wondering if there are people that have done one and want to get in on
another project and be doing something? I'm also wondering if getting the
motor in and battery boxes ,is keeping people form the whole ev adventure, .
I know this is kind of already in place with ev album in the trader , but if
anybody's interested they can e mail me .
This works easily if you want the first one for
yourself as you would have little extra costs except
for a website and some time. And for customer in a
rush you can sell yours
This was my idea years ago , what made me start building on spec was that
itch to build another. My though was If I have another than I could make
some deal , any deal , and a ev would be out their in the world , crying
look at me , people would see it and " oh look at that , it works" , The
person driving it , with the big ev grin would be advertising , and I could
build another , even better. I rented my ev 2 out to many people , for $10 a
day , and as they drove it and showed it off to people , it touched may more
people that with just me driving it.
while 2 was out I could work and drive no 3 .
. This puts you in the drivers
seat in selling them instead of them trying to steal
one from a despreate seller like they did to Steve
Clunn.
I'm desperate again today , the guy with the two Russian trucks , that where
shipped here new without engines or tranns , shipping weight 1350lbs , came
by and said he'll take $600 , these's are new , a few small problems , they
have no title, but what a place to start. As for the Ranger being stolen ,
That whole deal still worked out , not money wise but , they showed the
truck off and drove it all summer , somebody I new here in Florida that
moved up to N. C. went and got the truck . he's fixing it up and getting in
on the whole EV experience, when he gets to running good he thinks he knows
somebody that will make some monthly payments .
But EV's are going up in price as few are on the
market so it should sell for a profit if done right.
as pointed out before , every time the gas prices go up there is a wave of
interest , each one getting bigger and bigger , . When we're talking about "
a profit" I think ev's are right up there with playing music for a living
( not talking about big stars , but the little guy playing in the bars ) .
BUT as for being an exciting adventure , fast changing , and right in the
for front of whets happening , its there.
Another thing is selling an EV kit to other F-5 or
other Cobra buyers who want to do their own as another
income source.
I wonder how many rabbits Mike Brown did before he made his kit.? There's a
lot to think about , which model is going to be most popular / easiest to do
ect
But I wouldn't build one on spec. And make sure
there is a at least 50% deposit on one before you
start!
My last conversion really got me thinking about your car , the 1930 Mercedes
gazelle kit car is a lot lighter that most , but still a big pig compared to
your wood=e . Being so light is what makes it fly , now if you could make
a light EV under 1500 with 20 orbital 1k zill and 8' motor , Jerry you
should have 2 models , the go fast and the go far.
How about in the case of one of these Cobra kit
cars? Ten grand right
off the bat for the kit. When the conversion is
said and done, would
this thing be a money pit or would it be able to be
sold for what it
was worth?
It sounds like you would like this car , so build it , put it for sale , and
drive it and enjoy it while its selling , sounds easy. :-)
http://www.factoryfive.com/
I would like to do some high quality conversions and
get them on the
road. I have plenty of time, a garage, tools, and
I'm confident that
I could do it. Is it financially prudent though?
why not e mail me your EV converter ad , and Jon will put it on the
www.grassrootsev.com web site , And you to Jerry ,
There just might be people out there looking for your help .
Steve clunn
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I am gonna vote we keep this discussion on the list, It could be the
biggest thing in EV's yet.
it is on topic!
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
Your idea has worked. My father and 16 other men built 20 Blue Jay
sailboats. They bought kits and rented forming "jigs". Master carpenters
did the centerboard trucks (machinists doing the adapters?). The less
skilled people did the hardware mounting (E-meters, wiring, lights, etc,).
I don't think they would have gotten to where they were without the "jigs".
Too many compound curves that had to fall within Blue Jay rule
specifications and results that did not leak.
Each person was suppose to work so many hours and have their job done and
coordinated with the others. That was a very touchy subject. "But the wife
said no ..." One man's 10 hours was another man's 5 minutes. "... and
forgive those who ...." was applied grudgingly. A word or two was said vary
sparingly to the offending party or parties. In the end, they got their
boats built.
It took 50% longer than planned. In the end, each man drew a numbered piece
of paper from a hat. That way no one would work hard on "his" boat and
shirk the others. The last 3 boats were painted and sold to partially pay
for the jigs and building rental.
I would like to see something like this succeed.
Blue Jays are great for young (short) kids but cramped for an adult. They
are great for harbor sailing (local neighborhoods) as opposed to open water
(highways, Interstates). The Mustang was built by asking a person what
their neighbor wanted and not what they wanted. If the Mustang was the
answer then, it's no frills simplicity would still be appropriate today.
Conversions: I think the Voltswagen Rabbit kits are along the lines of
where this should go. But "watt" car do you select now? Vehicle purpose?
(4 seat Mom's chariot, 2 seat commuter, pickup/work truck, etc.), Range?
Batteries (NiMH, Lithium, etc.)? Controller? Charger?
Personally, I think a 2 (4?) seat commuter/errand or a light pickup vehicle
would be best. Decide on range or ranges. Work up the best based on
simplicity, doability, KISS, viability, etc. Then get them kitted up. Buy x
number of cars and kits. Build. Sell.
This is a substantial undertaking but I know that there are people who need
local area transport because two of them were at a previous meeting and had
no mechanical skills. There is a demand. What would I build for them and
what would it have to cost in order to be affordable to people who are not
deep pocketed? 20 mile round trip max? Under 10K? Reliable!!! My minimum
goal would be 50 miles (30 round trip commute + a gofer run) although I
could reduce the 30 down to 10 for the wife's errands.
>From scratch: I'm not sure where to begin other than KISS. Learn from the
Sparrow, Tango, etc. and keep Jerry Dycus's number handy!!!
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 0:06 AM
Subject: Open Source EV Kit
> Hi folks,
>
> I just had a thought from all these EV production/kit/conversion
> discussions of late. How about a kind of open source kit? What I have in
> mind is say 3 to 5 folks getting together and selecting a common donor
car,
> say a Dodge Neon or Toyota Echo for example. After common brainstorming
to
> get a picture of just what the basic concept should be, each would take
> over one aspect of the conversion, design a solution, produce it and
> document it. Say one takes on the drive train and handles the motor
mount,
> adapter, and coupler. Another handles battery boxes and mounting.
Another
> handles suspension and brake upgrades. Another wiring, chargers, and
> instrumentation. Yet another accessories, heating, and cooling. They
> would then share it with the other members of the team. Each would then
> duplicate the other ones work. Eventually you would end up with completed
> identical and fully documented conversions. At this point, you have
> effectively created a complete conversion guide for a specific donor
> including measurements and patterns that anyone wishing to copy can use to
> build their own EV with a very good idea of what the final result would be
> like. Could be cool.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
>
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Been there, tried that. We had what we called the "Pro-Mech
Program". We trained professional mechanics (who paid for the
training and travelled to our shop) to do conversions. We had a
couple dozen of them around the country. They had the Voltsrabbit Kit
(which at that time was a recent model car). Know what? Not a one of
them built a single conversion for a customer. They would build one
for themselves, and that's where it ended.
Good luck!
Shari Prange
Yes you guys have been around for a while , done some great stuff, I got one
of your kits for the junk yard , what a deal , the whole time , taking it
out , I'm thinking , man this would be so sweet to do . they wouldn't let
me take the car , Its a fine kit , and I;m sure lots of time went into
getting it right. Looking back allot of things could have and should have
worked , like the ev1 and your kit. The bus is still heading toward the
brick wall , and gaining speed, you have done something to helping put on
the some brakes , more people are waking up , lets see what they do , and
help them as much a possible.
Steve clunn
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I think you are correct about the difference betwen converting one
car and productionizing the parts, I have worked in production for over
20 years but I think we can actually do the specialization discussed,
precisely because open source means we don't work in isolation. I send
you a drawing, heck I send you an adapter if you send me a battery box.
If I am new and want to add to the kit I download the specs(drawings and
measurements) or buy whats avail and a donar and model it that way. I
am worried more about the lack of integration if we don't establish some
standards. If done correctly I don't see why we can't have motor
adapters that adapt many differnt motors to the transmission adapter
plate DC8",DC9"/AC Siemans/MEA etc.
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--- Begin Message ---
Catching up with the list after a week off.
Congrats Don!
How are your Dekas hold up?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Don Cameron (New Beetle EV) wrote:
I am **very** pleased to announce that the New Beetle has passed the very
challenging driveway test - it works! Back and forth 1/2 a dozen times,
checking out all circuits. All went well without incident.
Still lots to do: the interior, connect charger, power steering and vacuum
brake, and other small things, I expect to be all done by this summer.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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