EV Digest 4246
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: News Flash! GM To Build Hydrogen Cars!
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Batteries
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) 130Vdc, 2.5Hp dual shaft motor on Ebay
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Fw: Here's 1 4 U
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: News Flash! GM To Build Hydrogen Cars!
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EV Rescue
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Beggining my battery education.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Bladez beats Kragen gas scooter.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: News Flash! GM To Build Hydrogen Cars!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) HV shocks in general, was Re: Charger Shock
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: EV Rescue
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: HV shocks in general, was Re: Charger Shock
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EVcort battery thoughts
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EVcort battery thoughts
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Can someone identify these vehicles?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: Beggining my battery education.
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Can someone identify these vehicles?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Tango mentioned in Kit Car Magazine
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EVcort battery thoughts
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Can someone identify these vehicles?
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Can someone identify these vehicles?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Beggining my battery education.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Re: Can someone identify these vehicles?
by "EAA-contact" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> I can't understand why anyone on this list would bash fuel cell cars.
>
> With all the experience you've got here, it seems it would be a simple
> matter for an EV'er to swap out the fuel cell with a battery pack - or
> run both!
>
Probably because fool-cells are so economically unviable, that it's
doubtful that we will ever see commercially available vehicles.
Most folks on this list see them as a way the oil companies can fool the
american public into thinking that we are actually working on an
alternative to petroleum powered vehicles.
Personally I think that if the spent the money on BEVs instead we could be
buying BEVs right now. However, for what ever rea$on, the automakers are
VERY reluctant to build BEVs.
>
> Fortunat Mueller wrote:
>
>>Kevin,
>>
>>welcome. I realize that fuel cell bashing is really in
>>style on this list, and frankly I am not really
>>interested in having this debate, but I do want to
>>correct some factual errors in your post(cause there
>>are those on this list that seem to believe everything
>>they read) :
>>
>>
>>
>>>The biggest problem with FCVs is that they use more
>>>oil producing the hydrogen fuel than they do
>>>producing gasoline!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Almost all H2 fuel commercially available today comes
>>from steam reforming natural gas. Hydrocarbons, yes.
>>Oil, no.
>>
>>
>>
>>>I saw an article about
>>>how the latest FCVs derive their hydrogen from
>>>methanol, which is itself
>>>derived from petroleum
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I don't know what article you read but, with the
>>exception of a couple early proof of concept cars from
>>circa 1999, none of the auto companies are working on
>>or showing methanol fueled fuel cell vehicles. With
>>only a few exceptions they are all H2 fueled, although
>>a few different storage methods are being experimented
>>with.
>>
>>Methanol storage is being extensively researched for
>>so called battery replacement fuel cell technologies
>>for laptops, cellphones etc...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Pure-hydrogen FCVs require refrigeration of
>>>the fuel tank to store enough for a usable range.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>not really. Liquid hydrogen storage systems acheive
>>about 1.6 kwhr per liter of storage. The compressed
>>gas systems are something like 1.3. To date, the
>>compressed gas systems are much more popular with the
>>OEMs. Only BMW (that I know of) has built any number
>>of cars with liquid H2 storage, and those are IC
>>engine cars.
>>
>>
>>
>>>FCVs are basically EVs with a hydrogen battery, and
>>>it's a very
>>>inefficient process.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>this is true. Starting with electricity as your
>>'baseline', fuel cells have a terrible efficiency
>>compared to batteries. But noone in their right mind
>>is considering using fossil fuel elecricity to make H2
>>on a large scale. As you said, the economics and the
>>science doesn't make any sense.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Another note:
>>>When people talk about EVs shifting the pollution
>>>from the car to the powerplant and supposedly
>>>causing more pollution,
>>>why don't they ever take into consideration the
>>>pollution and electricity necessary to
>>>refine oil into gasoline?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>they do. any meaningful analysis of lifecycle
>>pollution from the transportation sector is done on a
>>well to wheels basis, which includes all the energy
>>needed to go from some basic feedstock to a car
>>driving down the road. See for example, DOE's GREET
>>analysis which is available for download from Argonne
>>National Labs home page.
>>
>>
>>
>>>There is no cleaner system
>>>on the planet-
>>>especially when the power for the EV is being
>>>produced by wind or solar
>>>generators.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>true.
>>
>>
>>
>>>John Westlund wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'd like to know as well. What I do know is that
>>>>
>>>>
>>>$2.2
>>>
>>>
>>>>million could have made about 50 EV1s in low
>>>>
>>>>
>>>volume, or for
>>>
>>>
>>
>>to be fair, I think the 88 Million includes several
>>years of field service, and lots of 'education' type
>>stuff for service people and the public. None the
>>less, 88 M is a hefty chunk of cash.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>I'm also curious as to how these vehicles will
>>>>
>>>>
>>>perform.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Econocrap? Yuck...
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>I can't speak for the GM vehicle, but the fuel cell
>>vehicles I have driven have had repectable
>>performance. They are not race cars but they are
>>similar in performance to their IC engine cousins.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Fuel cells are a leap backwards from batteries due
>>>>
>>>>
>>>to....maintenance of the fuel cell stack,
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Out of curiousity, what kind of maintenance do you do
>>to a fuel cell stack ? (hint, this is a loaded
>>question).
>>
>>
>>
>>>longevity(or lack thereof) of the platinum membrane,
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>this might be nitpicky, but the membrane is not made
>>of platinum, it is made of a polymer. The small amount
>>of PT in the stack is a catalyst that is located on
>>either side of the membrane to help the oxidation and
>>reduction reactions that take place there.
>>
>>longevity of a stack ? you are right, it needs some
>>work. it is certainly already as good as a lead acid
>>battery in vehicle service, and getting better every
>>day.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>power(again, lack thereof). Maybe if they built 600
>>>>horsepower 230 MPH capable FCVs for $2.2 million
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>what the hell do you want to do with 600 HP ? get into
>>orbit ? I think the american obsession with HP and
>>engine displacement is one of the strangest phenomena
>>I have ever witnessed.
>>
>>Anyway, before I get too worked up, let me say that I
>>too wish some of this federal money were going to BEV
>>development. I think both FCEVs and BEVs probably have
>>a place in the transportation paradigm of tomorrow. In
>>fact, as others have pointed out, other than battery
>>development (which has been sorely neglected) the DOE
>>support for FCEVs is funding great progress on
>>components and drive systems that are equally useable
>>for Fuel cell and battery electric vehicles. Small
>>consolation, i know...
>>
>>But it irks me to see the normally open minded people
>>on this list ignorantly repeating every 'fact' they
>>have heard about fuel cells. Let me tell you, it is
>>exactly the same thing as you guys find infuriating
>>when talking about BEVs with people who don't know.
>>There is lots of misinformation out there. Don't
>>believe everything you see on TV (or read on the
>>EVDL).
>>
>>~fortunat
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris;
Welcome aboard!Best bet for your EV would be the Stow a way 6 volters.
Sam's Klub gets the best bid price on GC's as he may get them from Trojan,
best, US Battery, real good, or Exide good, too.. Ya don't really care as
long as they work. The 6 volters are most popular, for EV's as they are a
lotta bang, amps, for the bux. They are real deep cycle batteries, but damn
HEAVY! For a real light vehicle ya might think 12 volt, Stowaways, but they
have cycling , deep, issues. Other Listers may chime in here. I get about
20k out of my golf carts, T 105's and T 145's, that's in a 82 VW Rabbit Lead
Sled model.20 gc's @120volts.
Chris, here's another thought. Golf Clubs and larger battery places often
have tested used 6 volters cheap, like 10 bux a piece. Like used people you
never know what yur getting. My first pack I got 22k out of, used 10 bux
each, or 200 bux, from the get go.Most of these guyz will give you another
one if you get a stinker right off. My battery guy , RAE Battery in Berlin
CT worked out fine for me, talk to Roy, tell him I sentya. Shameless Plug
here.
Comments? Our pleasure!
That's what were here for!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Seeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 7:43 PM
Subject: Batteries
> Hi list.
>
>
>
> I have got a newbie question...
>
>
>
> I was perusing the local Sam's Club today, and they have a rack of
> Batteries.
>
>
>
> Would any of these be acceptable for a starter EV or should I definitely
> look else ware. I am just getting started, and want to build a test bed
EV
> without breaking the pocketbook!.
>
>
>
> Here is what they had.
>
>
>
> StowAway Golf Cart Battery
>
> 6V Group Size GC2 $46.63 each
>
> 110 min @75 amps
>
>
>
> StowAway
>
> ST31DC /600 CCA
>
> 12V 115AmpHours $65.23 each
>
> 12 V 105 Amp hours $49.57 each
>
>
>
> They also had several Very Large bats
>
>
>
> Heavy Duty Size 4DLT
>
> 250 RC 79.77 each(? What is RC)
>
> These were als rated with CA and CCA but not amp hours.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the comments
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I was off in wave length estimation. For defence
though in your example you must simultaneously
touch 2 points of a car which are 9 feet apart.
In my scool days we built a hollow metal RF feed for a
horn antenna which was supported by uninsulated rods
bolted to it and pouned in the ground.
This was possible if you bolt supports only at null
locations. Couple of inches off and as you
said, we use to get nasty shorts. Few kW and the rods are
hot. Move them couple of inches and they are stone cold...
It was amazing to touch a bare piece of metal with an
RF AC voltmeter's probes couple of inches apart and
see the very large voltage potential.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Lee Hart wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
Another problem is that there are substantial amounts of resistance,
inductance, and capacitance between any two points in a large "grounded"
piece of metal like a car body. Anyone familiar with RF can tell you how
easy it is to have one point on a piece of metal at 0 volts, and another
point *ON THE SAME PIECE OF METAL* at 100s of volts! The classic example
of this is that if you touch two points on even a low-power transmitting
antenna you'll get a shock! The high frequency chargers, motor
controllers, and even brush arcing can create enough RF to give you such
shocks.
True, but this phenomenon you describe has to do with standing
waves short enough to be comparable to a human body size, which
happen at the frequencies of hundreds of MHz.
Anything conductive in a car with current switching technology will
have pretty same potential if the voltage is induced by RF.
In my early years, I was a ham radio operator. I've had mobile antennas
on my cars, and believe you me, you can get *nasty* RF shocks even at
3.5 MHz (the lowest frequency I used). The higher the frequency, the
worse it gets!
Consider the CB band (27 MHz). The wavelength is 11 meters. The distance
between a peak and a null in that waveform is 1/4 wave or 2.75 meters =
9 feet. Just about *all* cars are longer than this. So, at the instant
when the voltge at one point on the body is 0v, a spot 9 feet away is at
its *peak* voltage.
The sharp-edged switching waveforms used in EV chargers and controllers
easily have frequency components in this range.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7505156274
I just listed this motor on Ebay. It may be usefull
for power steering or accesory loads on an EV
Nameplate rating at 130Vdc is 3500Rpm and 17.5A.
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You built a wave guide!
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
Yes, I was off in wave length estimation. For defence
though in your example you must simultaneously
touch 2 points of a car which are 9 feet apart.
In my scool days we built a hollow metal RF feed for a
horn antenna which was supported by uninsulated rods
bolted to it and pouned in the ground.
This was possible if you bolt supports only at null
locations. Couple of inches off and as you
said, we use to get nasty shorts. Few kW and the rods are
hot. Move them couple of inches and they are stone cold...
It was amazing to touch a bare piece of metal with an
RF AC voltmeter's probes couple of inches apart and
see the very large voltage potential.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Lee Hart wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
Another problem is that there are substantial amounts of resistance,
inductance, and capacitance between any two points in a large "grounded"
piece of metal like a car body. Anyone familiar with RF can tell you how
easy it is to have one point on a piece of metal at 0 volts, and another
point *ON THE SAME PIECE OF METAL* at 100s of volts! The classic example
of this is that if you touch two points on even a low-power transmitting
antenna you'll get a shock! The high frequency chargers, motor
controllers, and even brush arcing can create enough RF to give you such
shocks.
True, but this phenomenon you describe has to do with standing
waves short enough to be comparable to a human body size, which
happen at the frequencies of hundreds of MHz.
Anything conductive in a car with current switching technology will
have pretty same potential if the voltage is induced by RF.
In my early years, I was a ham radio operator. I've had mobile antennas
on my cars, and believe you me, you can get *nasty* RF shocks even at
3.5 MHz (the lowest frequency I used). The higher the frequency, the
worse it gets!
Consider the CB band (27 MHz). The wavelength is 11 meters. The distance
between a peak and a null in that waveform is 1/4 wave or 2.75 meters =
9 feet. Just about *all* cars are longer than this. So, at the instant
when the voltge at one point on the body is 0v, a spot 9 feet away is at
its *peak* voltage. The sharp-edged switching waveforms used in EV
chargers and controllers
easily have frequency components in this range.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe this is the kind of security no one needs. LR
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4396831.stm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Porsche, Jaguar, Mercedes, BMW, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini...
Obsession with speed is hardly exclusive to Americans!
So what do you do with 600 hp? I believe the 1/4 mile in the 10's! Or
you could break 200 mph on the Salt Flats! I'm drooling just thinking
about it!
The reality is the vast majority of cars are slow, practical
machines. Even then, many of the fast ones never get raced and are
just for show. Alledgedly car makers often lose money on the fast
cars like the Corvette or NSX, but the attention they generate for
the brand is worth it.
This is why I think it is great the 1st Tango is so fast, and the
NEDRA greats are so fast, that really helps promote the EV cause.
--- Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> what the hell do you want to do with 600 HP ? get into
> orbit ? I think the american obsession with HP and
> engine displacement is one of the strangest phenomena
> I have ever witnessed.
> ...
__________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger
Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
So now I commute to a different Metrolink station than before. My first day
there, I spy a
strange looking bicycle against a back fence behind the Amtrak station. As I
get closer, I see
that it's an EV Warrior. The tires are flat and there are wires hanging out of
the battery box.
It looks like it may have been abandoned and vandalized.
I go into the Amtrak station to inquire about it, concocting in my mind a story
about belonging to
an organization that worked with the maker of the EV Warrior, so maybe they
would call me before
they finally have it impounded. Turns out that the owner of the bike hangs
around the station, so
all the employees know him. The station employee takes my number and tells me
that he'll find out
if the owner wants to sell it.
I get a call later that day from a guy named Dave. He parked it when it just
stopped working one
day. His dad looked at it, and thinks that "somebody may have replaced the
batteries with the
wrong kind." Strange way to vandalize a bike, and besides, these AGM batteries
look stock. But
he has the charger, and it looks like it's all there and just needs a tail
light and possibly
batteries. I ask Dave, "so how much do you want?"
He says, "How about five bucks?"
I tell him, "I'll double it."
He says, "Great, I'll leave the charger there, and you can pick it up in the
morning."
Sure enough, the Amtrak employee has the heavy 5 amp charger, and I wheel the
bike around the
corner into the storage room in my office.
It looks like everything is there. One of the battery wires has melted a bit
at the connector, so
I'll make up new wires. Other than that, it looks like very little will be
needed to get this on
the road. I need to locate the bicycle computer that houses the speedometer
and clean the bike
up, and I'll have a nice new ride.
So keep an eye out there, folks. You never know what you might come across.
Tim
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a little test with my friends car(ICE 88fiero) it has a 1.5 month
old battery and it went dead in 2 days while parked in her garage.
Her charger, a sears automatic one, wouldn't charge because it didn't
detect the battery. my meter read 0.00 volts
I pulled the cable and it came up to 2.08volts , the cahrger detected it
and we let it charge for 6 hours, the charger stayed at 5 amps even
thought set for 15 and I measured 12.6 volts while charging, very low
and slow.
The next day it measured 10.99 volts and wouldn't start so we put it
back on the charger to get it up to 11.75 and it started and we let it
run a bit. The alternator put out 13.99 volts with no AC component.
I have instructed her to wait an hour tonight and take a voltage reading
and then to measure it again in the morning before she leaves
then the next day repeat the test measuring an hour after she gets home,
after removing the cable, and leaving it off and again in the morning
before going to work.
I tried a tail light in series with the positive cable and after the
initial 1 min of dome light the in series bulb goes off indicating low
or non existant curent.
My questions.
On a SLI battery, what is dead, what is charged?
Is it posible for the battery to have a failure mode where driving it
every day works but leaving it 2or 3 days doesn't , i mena without an
external load on it.?
What is the best way to use one of those carbon pile or resistor
battery testers?
Thanks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Speaking of the gas scooters ...
>
> My neighbor has decided to purchase one of these things. It's noisy,
> slow, and smelly. Seems there are a lot of adults in S. California who
> choose to use one of these as their primary transportation.
>
> Short of calling the cops about an unlicensed motor vehicle on city
> streets (don't even get me started about these things on the bicycle
> trail that has the prominent "NO MOTOR VEHICLES" sign), what steps can
> be taken to discourage the use of these awful things?
>
Unlicensed scooters are allowed on public streets in CA as long as they don't
exceed 15mph, but you might get them ticketed based on their typical noise
pollution (or if they have been modified to go over the 15mph limit set by
law).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Yes, I was off in wave length estimation. For defence
> though in your example you must simultaneously
> touch 2 points of a car which are 9 feet apart.
Here's what you do. Mount your transmitting antenna to the back bumper.
Your friend is in the car, using the ham radio. You stop, get out of the
car, go back to the trunk. Knowing better than to touch the antenna, you
open the trunk and get a can of oil. No problem -- you are close to the
base of the antenna, near a voltage "null" point. The base of the
antenna is its virtual ground.
Walk to the front of the car. Reach to grab the hood and ***it grabs
you***! Yow! Drop the opened oil can on your foot, spilling oil
everywhere.
You see, the front of the car is far enough away to be at a voltage
"peak" point, so there is a lot of RF present. Almost exactly as much,
in fact, as if you *had* touched the top of the antenna!
And with RF, you only need to touch ONE point to get a shock. The other
"return" is your body's capacitance to ground. It may only be a few
hundred picofarads, but that's enough to get a dangerous amount of
current.
Now, you're unlikely to get electrocuted with RF. It tends to flow
mostly near the surface, where all the pain nerves are. So, it can be
intensely painful, and even burn you, but it doesn't cause the
ventricular fibulation or other deep-body effects of DC or low-frequency
AC. Still, bad stuff. The pain causes you to jump reflexively (as I
did), as if you touched something red-hot.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< Probably because fool-cells are so economically unviable, that it's
doubtful that we will ever see commercially available vehicles.
Most folks on this list see them as a way the oil companies can fool the
american public into thinking that we are actually working on an
alternative to petroleum powered vehicles.
Personally I think that if the spent the money on BEVs instead we could be
buying BEVs right now. However, for what ever rea$on, the automakers are
VERY reluctant to build BEVs. >>
Well, you **do** get all those electrically-powered bits that run the car - how
much $$$ goes into just the fuel cell? Either you go full battery pack, or
small pack with ICE generator (especiall appropriate: one fueled by natural
gas) to allow that liquid hydrocarbon input.
Don't know how much support would be needed if these were straight BEVs, but how
much to make BEVs with currently-available components and 100 (~600lbs) of those
Kokam 100Ah cells? That 37kwh pack currently runs better than $100K; much less
than that for all top-of-the-line EV parts (dual-AC drives, 50A-capable
charger, high output dc-dc converter) and whatever you want for gliders - even
at retail prices, that's way more than 10 times as many 100-mile-capable EVs
for that same $88mill. And like I said above, if you're desperate for LP or NG
capability, add a generator that only gets used when you get to 80% DOD.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Now, you're unlikely to get electrocuted with RF. It tends to flow
> mostly near the surface, where all the pain nerves are. So, it can be
> intensely painful, and even burn you, but it doesn't cause the
> ventricular fibulation or other deep-body effects of DC or low-frequency
> AC. Still, bad stuff. The pain causes you to jump reflexively (as I
> did), as if you touched something red-hot.
This response may be more appropriate for the hood ornament discussion but:
I picked up some low-voltage-input inverters at
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=INV-7&type=store
just toplay around. Don't know if this would actually work for my vision of a
mini Jacob's Ladder attached to the inside of my scooters windscreen, but I did
find out how much sparking the transformer creates at 12V if the output wire
gets disconnected (at which point it lets the smoke out)! 3v sparks nicely
(burns the skin of the clumsy experimenter!), but wouldn't light up my EL wire
(this is destined to create an aqua glow under my eLamby, but until that's
roadworthy, will be wired up to my son's bari sax). This has me puzzled - the
EL will begin to glow when connected directly to a 120vac line, and the
3V-powered inverter that comes with it appears to put out about 300vac, and
this surplus inverter seems to also put out 300vac - too low of current output?
wrong hz? something else I'm missing?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like you fell into a great deal Tim. Industrial Liquidators (on
E-bay) had some of the original EV Warrior speedos a few months back when
Rick and I were putting the finishing touches on a couple complete Warrior
"kits". They might even have some of the bits and pieces (no motors or
drives tho) you might need down the road. Good luck resurrecting it.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: EV Rescue
> Hi all,
>
> So now I commute to a different Metrolink station than before. My first
day there, I spy a
> strange looking bicycle against a back fence behind the Amtrak station.
As I get closer, I see
> that it's an EV Warrior. The tires are flat and there are wires hanging
out of the battery box.
> It looks like it may have been abandoned and vandalized.
>
> I go into the Amtrak station to inquire about it, concocting in my mind a
story about belonging to
> an organization that worked with the maker of the EV Warrior, so maybe
they would call me before
> they finally have it impounded. Turns out that the owner of the bike
hangs around the station, so
> all the employees know him. The station employee takes my number and
tells me that he'll find out
> if the owner wants to sell it.
>
> I get a call later that day from a guy named Dave. He parked it when it
just stopped working one
> day. His dad looked at it, and thinks that "somebody may have replaced
the batteries with the
> wrong kind." Strange way to vandalize a bike, and besides, these AGM
batteries look stock. But
> he has the charger, and it looks like it's all there and just needs a tail
light and possibly
> batteries. I ask Dave, "so how much do you want?"
>
> He says, "How about five bucks?"
>
> I tell him, "I'll double it."
>
> He says, "Great, I'll leave the charger there, and you can pick it up in
the morning."
>
> Sure enough, the Amtrak employee has the heavy 5 amp charger, and I wheel
the bike around the
> corner into the storage room in my office.
>
> It looks like everything is there. One of the battery wires has melted a
bit at the connector, so
> I'll make up new wires. Other than that, it looks like very little will
be needed to get this on
> the road. I need to locate the bicycle computer that houses the
speedometer and clean the bike
> up, and I'll have a nice new ride.
>
> So keep an eye out there, folks. You never know what you might come
across.
>
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
>
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On Apr 1, 2005 6:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> just toplay around. Don't know if this would actually work for my vision of a
> mini Jacob's Ladder attached to the inside of my scooters windscreen, but I
> did
Watch out for the UV when playing about with arc generating things.
Secondly, a jacob's ladder is unlikely to work in the open and
especially not in the airflow of a vehicle, because the ionised air
will blow away.
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Today a buddy of mine acquired a new EVcort. I drove with him into
San Francisco and followed him back to Mountain View (about a 32 mile trip).
When we arrived in Mountain View, the 108 volt nominal pack was
reading 96 volts, a fairly deep discharge. So I started thinking,
how hard would it be to upgrade the battries in this guy to Optimas?
Would that even help? How about going crazy and installing Liion, or
Lipoly? It looks like an upgrade to Liion would cost ~ $17,000.
How much more range do you think I could expect from Optimas vs Liion?
Also, does anybody know if the stock Soleq charger could handle AGM battries?
Thanks!
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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On Apr 1, 2005 9:14 AM, Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Today a buddy of mine acquired a new EVcort. I drove with him into
> San Francisco and followed him back to Mountain View (about a 32 mile trip).
>
> When we arrived in Mountain View, the 108 volt nominal pack was
> reading 96 volts, a fairly deep discharge.
96V Off-load? That's a fairly damaged battery pack now, probably :(
> So I started thinking,
> how hard would it be to upgrade the battries in this guy to Optimas?
I would suggest sticking with golf cart batteries until he's got the
experience to make a more expensive pack last the distance.
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--- Begin Message ---
What are they, glorified golf carts? They are electric, and tourists rent
them up and down the "strip" here in Florida. They drive them on the road.
Please identify. Thanks.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=228489
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On Apr 1, 2005 5:10 AM, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My questions.
> On a SLI battery, what is dead, what is charged?
Dead is 12.0, charged is 12.8 or more (measured after at least an
hour's "rest"). On a car you might expect to see around 12.6
typically, especially if making short journeys.
> Is it posible for the battery to have a failure mode where driving it
> every day works but leaving it 2or 3 days doesn't , i mena without an
> external load on it.?
Yes, an internal short, or contamination of the electrolyte.
> What is the best way to use one of those carbon pile or resistor
> battery testers?
In strict accordance to the instructions :)
In terms of time and effort it might be easier to just take the
battery back and get it swapped. To see if the car is draining the
battery use an ammeter or multimeter with amp setting, a light bulb is
not very accurate.
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These are a GEM or Global Electric Motors.
They have them at Ocean Shores Washington, too.
Driving them on the beach gets sand into the speed controller and makes a
maintenance problem according to the rental agency where I rented one.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:25 AM
Subject: Can someone identify these vehicles?
> What are they, glorified golf carts? They are electric, and tourists rent
> them up and down the "strip" here in Florida. They drive them on the
road.
>
> Please identify. Thanks.
>
> http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=228489
>
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Also interestingly enough, there is a 3 page article on batteries in
the same issue...
<snip> page 3:
http://img178.exs.cx/img178/1092/bat38mb.jpg
A pity that they didn't talk to someone who knows before publishing a
glossary with so many inaccuracies. So many people are confused about
terminology as it is, without this kind of 'authoritive' misinformation.
The worst one is defining 'open circuit' as a current draw! Sheesh!
I picked six, but admit that some are really being picky about
technicalities - in 'alternator' the use of 'inverter' for the AC/DC
conversion that the rectifier does. Anyone want to pick more?
James
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On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 09:25:43AM +0100, Evan Tuer wrote:
> On Apr 1, 2005 9:14 AM, Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Today a buddy of mine acquired a new EVcort. I drove with him into
> > San Francisco and followed him back to Mountain View (about a 32 mile trip).
> >
> > When we arrived in Mountain View, the 108 volt nominal pack was
> > reading 96 volts, a fairly deep discharge.
>
> 96V Off-load? That's a fairly damaged battery pack now, probably :(
Well, that was right after parking, perhaps I should have waited a min
to look, but yea, that was off-load.
>
> > So I started thinking,
> > how hard would it be to upgrade the battries in this guy to Optimas?
>
> I would suggest sticking with golf cart batteries until he's got the
> experience to make a more expensive pack last the distance.
Humm, perhaps that would be best.
Thanks!
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 03:25:51AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What are they, glorified golf carts? They are electric, and tourists rent
> them up and down the "strip" here in Florida. They drive them on the road.
>
> Please identify. Thanks.
>
> http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=228489
I think they are GEMs.
http://www.gemcar.com/
Yes, glorified golf carts.
:)
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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At 03:25 AM 1/04/05 -0500, you wrote:
What are they, glorified golf carts? They are electric, and tourists rent
them up and down the "strip" here in Florida. They drive them on the road.
Please identify. Thanks.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=228489
Look like the photos I've seen of Global Electric Motorvehicles (GEM) NEVs.
Not that I'm an expert, but a quick dogpile search should get some pictures
to compare.
James
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--- Begin Message ---
So this phenmenon might explain what happened to me with the Brusa when
I worked at Solectria. I will never know for certain though. It stung
but I wan't hurt. Not like the guys with copper plated hands from
exploding wires, or the time a burned a hole *through* my finger with a
flyback on a 12" LCD flat panel display (my worst EV injury, I think)
Seth
On Apr 1, 2005, at 12:45 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Yes, I was off in wave length estimation. For defence
though in your example you must simultaneously
touch 2 points of a car which are 9 feet apart.
Here's what you do. Mount your transmitting antenna to the back bumper.
Your friend is in the car, using the ham radio. You stop, get out of
the
car, go back to the trunk. Knowing better than to touch the antenna,
you
open the trunk and get a can of oil. No problem -- you are close to the
base of the antenna, near a voltage "null" point. The base of the
antenna is its virtual ground.
Walk to the front of the car. Reach to grab the hood and ***it grabs
you***! Yow! Drop the opened oil can on your foot, spilling oil
everywhere.
You see, the front of the car is far enough away to be at a voltage
"peak" point, so there is a lot of RF present. Almost exactly as much,
in fact, as if you *had* touched the top of the antenna!
And with RF, you only need to touch ONE point to get a shock. The other
"return" is your body's capacitance to ground. It may only be a few
hundred picofarads, but that's enough to get a dangerous amount of
current.
Now, you're unlikely to get electrocuted with RF. It tends to flow
mostly near the surface, where all the pain nerves are. So, it can be
intensely painful, and even burn you, but it doesn't cause the
ventricular fibulation or other deep-body effects of DC or
low-frequency
AC. Still, bad stuff. The pain causes you to jump reflexively (as I
did), as if you touched something red-hot.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 3/31/2005 9:13:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< My questions.
On a SLI battery, what is dead, what is charged?
Is it posible for the battery to have a failure mode where driving it
every day works but leaving it 2or 3 days doesn't , i mena without an
external load on it.?>>
Sudden failures on these things is very common.
<< What is the best way to use one of those carbon pile or resistor
battery testers?
>>
Industry standard is to apply a load of 1/2 the cold cranking amps for 15
seconds, voltage should not drop below 9.6.
The fiero needs a new battery.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Definately a GEM neighborhood vehicle.-Ed--- On Fri 04/01, James Massey <
[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:From: James Massey [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:55:53 +1000Subject: Re: Can someone
identify these vehicles?At 03:25 AM 1/04/05 -0500, you wrote:>What are they,
glorified golf carts? They are electric, and tourists rent>them up and down
the "strip" here in Florida. They drive them on the road.>>Please
identify.
Thanks.>>http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=228489Look
like the photos I've seen of Global Electric Motorvehicles (GEM) NEVs. Not that
I'm an expert, but a quick dogpile search should get some pictures to
compare.James
_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
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