EV Digest 4248
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) ETEK/A89 bolt pattern.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) A89 vs ETEK at 48v
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Progress Report on the Siamese 8
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Progress Report on the Siamese 8
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Beggining my battery education.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Transfer case as transmission
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVcort battery thoughts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EVcort battery thoughts
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EVcort battery thoughts
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) RE: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Progress Report on the Siamese 8
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Progress Report on the Siamese 8
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Cleaning batteries and High current GFCIs
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: A89 vs ETEK at 48v
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EVcort battery thoughts
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Meter
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Cleaning batteries and High current GFCIs
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Cleaning batteries and High current GFCIs
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Meter
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Progress Report on the Siamese 8
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re : Beginning my battery education
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) NO POLITICS - here's why
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Batteries
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Interstate Batteries
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Best of the BEVs
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I thought I was out the motormount on the Lectra when the ETEK blew. Not
so. I drilled out 3 bolt holes by 1/32 and it was a snug fit. Got the
Lectra back to the orginal setup using the A89 except I have mounted the
controller outboard for ventaliation of the heat sink.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Etek with a 16 tooth sprocket out performed the A89 with the same
sprocket by 10mph and much better acceleration. 53 mph vs 43mph. Both at
48vdc.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wayland wrote:
> That's 522 hp of electrical consumption, but distilled to 'delivered hp',
> probably
> around 300, maybe a bit more.
That's some serious HP. Any guesses on the TQ? Any chance of getting
the vehicle on a chassis dyno this year? I'd love to see the hp/tq
curves at the tires on a graph.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can used a Automatic transmission, but you have to be careful on what type
of controller you use. If you are using a series motor and a rpm limiter
controller like a Zilla, than it will maintain a constant rpm at a unloaded
idle.
I used to have a CableForm controller, with a 350 GM automatic transmission,
which lasted only 1000 miles. With a automatic, you are starting up in the
neutral position, which cause the motor to violent accelerated to the torque
converter lock up position. At that point the car would than jerk ahead
somewhat.
To prevent that from happening, we add the accessory loads of the pilot shaft
(the front shaft of the motor) which were the standard items off the engine.
We than drive the power steering, power brake vacuum pump, air conditional and
a water pump which was pumping electric hot water thru the standard heating
system.
We than add a solenoid as a idle stop on the accelerator POT. which we can
control from the dash. A door lock solenoid work good.
To started up.
Transmission in Park or Neutral
Press accelerator until Rpm is at about 500 RPM
(The accessory load or Zilla controller will keep the motor
rpm constant)
Press the Idle switch on if you are doing a lot of slow turning or parking.
Otherwise you could keep it off.
Drive the car as you would normally.
I replace the automatic with a manual before I did the modifications.
Installing A controller with a rpm limiter and a accessory drive off the motor,
I find it would be no problem.
In using a standard transmission, you really only need Forward and Reversed if
you have a differential gear at least 4.5:1 for a lite weight car and a 5.5:1
for a heavy car.
You do not need to disengaged a clutch or even have one, just let the motor
come down to about 0 RPM so you can get it into the reversed. In a standard
transmission, when you depressed the clutch, while the car is stop, the
transmission output shaft is stop, but the input shaft is still somewhat
moving by the friction on the pilot bearing.
This same effect can be done by letting the motor come to a stop when you need
to go into reverse.
Otherwise with a automatic, used it as normal if you set up a idle control.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:09 AM
Subject: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
I have an opportunity to get a GREAT looking Saab 900E 4 door with every
option under the sun! Electric wipers on the headlights, leather seats!
everything! Motor is shot, otherwise pristine.
Here is my question..
This thing has an automatic tranny. Are they ever used?
Also does anyone know if they were made with 5 speeds where you might go to a
junkyard and get one?
I can definitely get my wife to drive this one!!!
Help!!!!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Any chance of getting the vehicle on a chassis dyno this year?
Let me take that a step further. Find out how much it will cost to
run it on a local dyno and I will consider Paypal'ing you the money to
run it as long as it's a fair and reasonable amount.
http://www.paypal.com/
I will run mine on a local dyno as soon as I get it built.. And some
1/4 mile time slips scanned and posted online..
Good times indeed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > What is the best way to use one of those carbon pile or resistor
> > battery testers?
>
> In terms of time and effort it might be easier to just take the
> battery back and get it swapped.
FYI, you can take the battery to
http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/in_our_stores/free_testing.jsp
if you have one of those around. They can test it for a "dead cell" I
think. Anyone know for sure what all their "fancy" machine
does/checks for?
Seems like a new battery is ~$30...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> I remember from
> my RVing days that there is an aftermarket hi gear that can be added to the
> rear differential. I've been googling for it, but can't find it. Does any
> body know what I am referring to and a link to the site?
This is the only product I know of that sounds like what you are
describing. It connects to the transmission though instead of the
differential:
http://www.gearvendors.com/
On the bottom of this page though, they do mention "Electric Vehicles Racing"!
http://www.gearvendors.com/racing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> It still ran fine at this point, perhaps if we end up swapping
>> out the weak cells, we should also install a BMS.
A reversed cell has a voltge of -2v instead of +2v. So when you reverse
one cell, the pack voltage drops about 4v. You said your 108v pack was
at 96v no-load; that implies you had 2 reversed cells.
(It's not really that analytical, because the individual cell voltages
of the good cells were probably scattered all around +1.75v to +2.10v.
To be sure, you'd have to measure the voltage of every cell, or at least
every battery.)
>> Will a BMS prevent this kind of damage in the future?
Some can. The Badicheq, Zivan Smoother, and my Battery Balancer can all
*charge* the lowest battery, using power from the batteries with more
charge. But this takes time, because the charging rates are limited. The
Badicheq only charges at 0.5a; the Smoother at 2a, and my Balancer up to
30a. But you could easily be drawing 60 amps if you keep driving, so the
balancer can't keep up.
These balancers work best if you alert the driver that a battery's in
trouble, and tell him (or force him) to drive slower or let the
batteries rest so the balancer has time to prevent a battery from going
completely dead.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Don't auto trannys run from hydro power generated by torque converter?
Yes, they do. That's why David Dymaxion suggested that you set up the
electric motor to "idle" rather than stop completely. This is the
easiest way to do it. You can also run all the rest of the belt-driven
accessories with the electric motor (alternator, power steering, power
brakes, air conditioner etc.). Yes, this wastes a little power if you
spend a lot of time idling. However, it's rarely enough to matter.
The other alternatives are to add a separate electric motor to run the
automatic transmission's internal oil pump, or use a separate electric
motor with pump, and plumb it into the transmission.
If you elect to use *none* of these options, (i.e. just let the electric
motor stop when the car is stopped), then when you set on the throttle
and the motor spins up, there will be a couple-second pause while the
pump builds up pressure, then the transmission will shift into gear
(often with a *lurch*). Not very elegant.
The other issue is to find out if this car's automatic has a locking
torque converter. If it does, you'll want this feature to work. When the
torque converter is locked, you'll get essentially the same range as a
manual transmission. If you don't have a locking torque converter (or
you can't figure out how to tell it to lock), then you lose 10% or so of
your range.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is another adapter so a torque converter doesn't have to be used at all
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=3456&prmenbr=361
What is done to the transmission to make it not need fluid pressure?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It MIGHT be possible to make the automatic direct drive.
Have a look at this converter:
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=3457&prmenbr=361
Maybe TCI could modify your stock converter?
http://www.tciauto.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter wrote:
> Still it would be simpler and cheaper to just mount a voltmeter on the
> dash and look at it every now and then. You really, REALLY, should have a
> voltmeter as a minimum anyway. Then an amp meter. Then an E-meter/Link10
I'm trying to visualize how to wire this up.
With a battery -> controller -> motor setup.
The volt meter hooks to what(and where)? Same for the amp meter and
the e-meter.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< It still ran fine at this point, perhaps if we end up swapping out the weak
cells, we should also install a BMS.
Will a BMS prevent this kind of damage in the future? >>
Isn't he running floodeds? I don't think you need a true BMS if you stick with
floodeds, since overcharging just "boils off" water instead of venting a sealed
system like SLAs (or destruction in other chemistries); you are suppose to watch
the voltmeter when you drive to prevent dropping below the point of damage. That
should do for a new EV owner unless he needs it to be idiot-proof, in which case
the controller should disable at a set low voltage.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Here is another adapter so a torque converter doesn't have to
> be used at all
>
> http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=
> 3456&prmenbr=361
>
> What is done to the transmission to make it not need fluid pressure?
The tranny still needs fluid pressure. Looking at the picture on the
page you referenced, the end of the adapter with the flange bolts to the
engine crankshaft using the same bolts as normally attache the flywheel.
The end of the adapter facing you, with the two slots in it, is the same
as the neck on the torque convertor and drives the tranny oil pump.
What is not visible in the picture is that the tranny input shaft
protrudes into the adapter and engages an internal spline. Normally,
the input shaft protrudes into the torque convertor and engages the
output vanes while the outer case of the torque convertor bolts to the
engine crank via the flex plate and the pump drive 'tube' is part of the
torque convertor housing. This means that whenever the engine turns,
the torque convertor housing turns and so the tranny pump turns,
however, the tranny input shaft slips relative to the engine, at least
until the torque convertor locks up.
This adapter locks the input shaft and pump drive together so that both
turn (at the same speed) whenever the engine turns over.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< NEXT question, however. Don't auto trannys run from hydro power generated by
torque converter? It seems unless that would be spinning all the time you
wouldn't have any fluid pressure to run the transmission. In the Solectra
autos, how do they handle this? >>
If you don't mind a slight drop in efficiency, either keep the drive motor
spinning, or set up a smaller motor to pump up the hydraulic pressure.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We are modifying it further with air passage reliefs so that a single
central fan can be used
instead of two as previously planned....a bit more efficiency is gained by
reducing fan drag
at high rpm, and we both believe the one fan will pull in air nicely
through each brush end
bell's cooling slots. If never street driven, we could probably race
without the fan at all, but
White Zombie is a street driven machine.
Any reason you're not running an external blower? Turn it off for drag
pulls, and back on for road
trips. The best of both worlds.
David Thompson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ryan and All,
Ryan Stotts wrote:
> > Any chance of getting the vehicle on a chassis dyno this year?
>
> Let me take that a step further. Find out how much it will cost to
> run it on a local dyno and I will consider Paypal'ing you the money to
> run it as long as it's a fair and reasonable amount.
>
>
That's a nice gesture, thank you, but I've already got two of the top dyno
shops here in
town sponsoring me with all the dyno time I want...for free. It's a matter of
getting 'the
button' switch-over point safe and reliable enough to hit with the car strapped
to the
dyno wheel, as the transition is quite violent and not all that perfected yet.
Perhaps I
can get a Zilla Z2K installed and test it that way. Even that though, isn't the
same power
level as pulling down the batteries to under 7 volts at ~2500 amps.
The car 'will' see a dyno this year, but probably not until after it gets a few
good runs
down the track.
See Ya.........John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I read the post about keeping your battery tops
clean, what's the best way you've come up with to do
this? I remember reading a post awhile back about
using windex, the ammonia neutralizes the acid? Any
tips would be appreciated.
Onto the GFCI, at home I have a 240v GFCI breaker
I charge with, at work I use a Avcon charger that has
it's own GFCI. I have a inline 120V GFCI that I can
use while charging elsewhere, but would I like the
idea of a high voltage (240V) GFCI so I can charge
faster when traveling. I looked at the reference from
Rusco, Levitron model 6895, I found a model 8895 with
the specs here:
http://www.levitonproducts.com/Catalog/Model_8895.htm
It states that this is a 125V, 20 amp GFCI, it goes on
to state that is will control 80A @ 240V with a 125V
control relay. Is this an additional component that
needs to be added? I'm not really clear on the part.
What I had in mind was a small box containing the GFCI
with a plug on one side and a socket on the other that
I could plug into a dryer outlet and let my PHC 20 do
it's thing safely. The way it is now I'm limited to
charging on 120V when away from home or work.
TiM
'61 Electric Rampside
'80 Jet Electrica 007
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates.
http://personals.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Etek with a 16 tooth sprocket out performed the
> A89 with the same
> sprocket by 10mph and much better acceleration. 53
> mph vs 43mph. Both at
> 48vdc.
I think the problem here is the A89 isn't being
loaded enough at the voltage you have used. It's an
72vdc motor I believe so would run out of power long
before it should on 48vdc.
I ran both the E-tek on my E-woody and my 36vdc,
from a Citi-car, 100 amp cont GE motor with 3.5 hp
both on 36vdc, easily out pulled my E-tek in the same
setting, especially at starting up where the series
had no problem and the E-tek bit the big one and now
I'm out of the cash I paid for it. They were both
fairly matched at about 3000rpm at 36vdc cont rated.
As a PM, the E-tek did run a little stronger at
top speed as normal but getting to that speed and
starting up a small incline the series motor chewed
the E-tek for lunch!! As did the incline that burnt
the e-teks commutator ruining it.
Had I used field weakening on the series motor as
I had before it would have beat the E-tek badly even
at top speed power and it's rated at 1/3 the
contenuious power the E-tek is!
Too be fair you need to use 1/3 less sprocket
teeth on the A89 to load it enough to work to it's
potential by drawing more amps or run it at 72vdc.
either way it will beat the E-tek easily.
And your E-tek bit it didn't it and why you are
putting the A89 on?
So people shouldn't conclude the E-tek is more
powerful than the A89.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates.
http://personals.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will a BMS prevent this kind of damage in the future?
Before doing that I would recommend a battery monitor instead. My little
LED device would work great on a 120 volt pack (only 10 lights) or you
could go with Lee's battery balance light.
I like my solution because it will tag red when a 12 volt battery goes
below 11 volts (and into danger land) under load. Plus it will go green
when the battery hits 14.7 volts and yellow when over 15.6 volts. These
three values are all you need to know to keep your batteries safe. Let
off on throttle when you see a red LED, check batteries if one is not
green when the rest are and never see a yellow and you'll be set.
CZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Features sound nice, but ExTech makes crap. I had a rant about meters a
while back. When I check the Extech or MeterMan meters against a
calibrated (Fluke) they are off enough that I won't measure battery
voltage with them if I need to know more than "are they dead?"
Seth
On Apr 1, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Dave Cover wrote:
I was just at a local electronics shop and they have a DMM I'm
considering. It's an Extech 470. It
says it's true RMS. Accuracy is supposed to be +- .3% VDC. The part I
really like is that it
includes a built in infra-red thermomter as well as a wired temp
probe. Great for checking hot
connections or batteries. AND it has a frickin' laser! (No sharks
though.) Their price is $129.
Haven't shopped around for price yet.
So, besides the nice bells and whistles, does this look like a good
meter? Is the brand OK? Is the
accuracy reasonable?
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are going to need a very large box for this device to work with conjunction
with a 2 pole contactor rated at 125 % of the current you are charging with.
If you are charging at 50 amp then you will need:
50 x 125% = 62.5 amp or the next size contactor would be a 100 amp rating.
A 2 pole contactor rated at 250 VAC @ 100 amp with 120 VAC 60 Hz coils.
A 4 wire plug, 30 amp or 50 amp that has Line 1 and Line 2 a neutral and a
ground pole on it. The neutral is used so you can operated the the 120 volt
coil. Or if you do not have a neutral source then:
You must used a chassic mounted machine transformer with 240 vac primary
and a 120 vac secondary for tapping of the main 240 Vac lines .
If you used the transformer tapping off the mains, then you must used two panel
mounted fuse holders for 250 VAC 2 amp fusetrons for a 50 va transformer.
The GFCI blocking device then is wire in series with the 120 vac control leads
going to the coil. The GFCI will have load and line indentifiers on the lugs
for wiring. A wiring diagram is supplied with these devices.
Then a enclosure is needed with a chassic plate to hold all of the above items.
On the face of the enclosure, you will need a control station, to turn on the
contactor and a reset mechanism if it trips.
You can get all of the above items as a factory unassemble items and assemble
it yourself, or purchase it as a completed factory assemble device, which you
must specified the ratings and layout.
These items are normally purchase from a wholesale electrical supply house.
You can pick up a electrical control digest from them, and then if you need
help in design and engineering, just contact that division that is listed in
the digest and they will assist on what you will need to make it work.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: TiM M<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV-List-Post<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:30 PM
Subject: Cleaning batteries and High current GFCIs
I read the post about keeping your battery tops
clean, what's the best way you've come up with to do
this? I remember reading a post awhile back about
using windex, the ammonia neutralizes the acid? Any
tips would be appreciated.
Onto the GFCI, at home I have a 240v GFCI breaker
I charge with, at work I use a Avcon charger that has
it's own GFCI. I have a inline 120V GFCI that I can
use while charging elsewhere, but would I like the
idea of a high voltage (240V) GFCI so I can charge
faster when traveling. I looked at the reference from
Rusco, Levitron model 6895, I found a model 8895 with
the specs here:
http://www.levitonproducts.com/Catalog/Model_8895.htm<http://www.levitonproducts.com/Catalog/Model_8895.htm>
It states that this is a 125V, 20 amp GFCI, it goes on
to state that is will control 80A @ 240V with a 125V
control relay. Is this an additional component that
needs to be added? I'm not really clear on the part.
What I had in mind was a small box containing the GFCI
with a plug on one side and a socket on the other that
I could plug into a dryer outlet and let my PHC 20 do
it's thing safely. The way it is now I'm limited to
charging on 120V when away from home or work.
TiM
'61 Electric Rampside
'80 Jet Electrica 007
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates.
http://personals.yahoo.com<http://personals.yahoo.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In keeping your batteries clean, I use Whitaker battery spray cleaner. It's
the only one that dries clean and does not leave a white residue. Just wipe
with paper towels.
Another trick I learn over 30 years ago, is to bed the batteries in a layer of
baking soda. That is if you have enclosed plastic or fiberglass boxes. I lay
down about 1 inch thick of baking soda and set my batteries on them.
This does several things. Gives a softer layer for the battery bottoms to set
on which prevents wear and rubbing threw. Any cleaning you do on the tops,
neutralize any leaking going over the sides and down on the batteries.
It also seems to keep the entire battery box cleaner and my tops more cleaner.
I also pipe in fresh air into the enclose battery box that also has a very low
vacuum draw. This was suggested by the Hydro Cap Company, of which I used
there Hydro Cap's on my last set of batteries, but will not fit my new
batteries because the covers would hit them.
Since I used this air system, I have no tops that have any moisture on them. I
only water them about every 6 months.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: TiM M<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV-List-Post<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:30 PM
Subject: Cleaning batteries and High current GFCIs
I read the post about keeping your battery tops
clean, what's the best way you've come up with to do
this? I remember reading a post awhile back about
using windex, the ammonia neutralizes the acid? Any
tips would be appreciated.
Onto the GFCI, at home I have a 240v GFCI breaker
I charge with, at work I use a Avcon charger that has
it's own GFCI. I have a inline 120V GFCI that I can
use while charging elsewhere, but would I like the
idea of a high voltage (240V) GFCI so I can charge
faster when traveling. I looked at the reference from
Rusco, Levitron model 6895, I found a model 8895 with
the specs here:
http://www.levitonproducts.com/Catalog/Model_8895.htm<http://www.levitonproducts.com/Catalog/Model_8895.htm>
It states that this is a 125V, 20 amp GFCI, it goes on
to state that is will control 80A @ 240V with a 125V
control relay. Is this an additional component that
needs to be added? I'm not really clear on the part.
What I had in mind was a small box containing the GFCI
with a plug on one side and a socket on the other that
I could plug into a dryer outlet and let my PHC 20 do
it's thing safely. The way it is now I'm limited to
charging on 120V when away from home or work.
TiM
'61 Electric Rampside
'80 Jet Electrica 007
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates.
http://personals.yahoo.com<http://personals.yahoo.com/>
--- End Message ---
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P.S. Sears carries a Fluke 123 for about $100. I don't know if it is
caibratable (is that a word?), but it is pretty close to the cailbrated
Fluke 189. Of course mine might just be a good one. Caveat Emptor and
all that.
Seth
On Apr 1, 2005, at 9:03 PM, Seth Allen wrote:
Features sound nice, but ExTech makes crap. I had a rant about meters
a while back. When I check the Extech or MeterMan meters against a
calibrated (Fluke) they are off enough that I won't measure battery
voltage with them if I need to know more than "are they dead?"
Seth
On Apr 1, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Dave Cover wrote:
I was just at a local electronics shop and they have a DMM I'm
considering. It's an Extech 470. It
says it's true RMS. Accuracy is supposed to be +- .3% VDC. The part I
really like is that it
includes a built in infra-red thermomter as well as a wired temp
probe. Great for checking hot
connections or batteries. AND it has a frickin' laser! (No sharks
though.) Their price is $129.
Haven't shopped around for price yet.
So, besides the nice bells and whistles, does this look like a good
meter? Is the brand OK? Is the
accuracy reasonable?
Thanks
Dave Cover
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At 03:27 PM 1/04/05 -0800, John Wayland wrote:
<snip> Perhaps I
can get a Zilla Z2K installed and test it that way. Even that though,
isn't the same power
level as pulling down the batteries to under 7 volts at ~2500 amps.
The car 'will' see a dyno this year, but probably not until after it gets
a few good runs
down the track.
See Ya.........John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
Well, two motors, two Z2K's.... if Otmar can lend you a couple?
288V, that's 24 batteries, @ 7V is 168V, if you can keep them there @ 3000A
is 1/2MW, how big is their dyno?
James
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Light bulb was used at first because unknown draw could fry a dc ammeter
only rated at 25 or 10 amps. I really need to get a decent DC
ammeter.(suggestions welcome)
The battery is new and barely used. Was 11.9 volts after 1 hr of sitting
after test and only dropped to 11.8 volts in 12 hours(next morning) with
alarm left off. humm.
Thanks on the motor mount idea, I was looking at them last night and
wondering, great idea to check ground cable resistance, could cause
intermittant loss of chargeing also. I have machinery at work where
cables laying in those flexible raceways broke into hundreds of little
1/4" long strands inside the insulation, fun debugging.
I am thnking that the battery is ok, and was drained by cat and an
overactive alarm that locks and unlocks doors and stuff, but her charger
is so cautious that neither of us gave it the 20 hours it would need to
completly charge the battery.
I am tempted to take the PFC30 out of it's shipping box and give it a
real charge(but since I have never used it, I hesitate on learning on
someone elses battery)
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I think the torque converter is seperate from the pump, there are 2
spline shafts, the outer one drives the input of the transmission from
the torque converter and is hollow. The pump drive shaft goes thru and
is driven from the part of the torque converter that rotates with the
engine. It drives the pressure pump that is inside the tranny.
I wonder if you could use a nitrogen charged accumulator off the cooling
lines or even an external hydraulic pump into the cooling line ports to
acieve the same thing.
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Resending since this doesn't appear to have made it to the list
(yet?)...
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Stockton
Sent: March 30, 2005 1:58 PM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
John Lussmyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> So, if it's so easy, design and BUILD one for sale. It can
> even put out DC as PFC chargers can be made to accept it.
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I am not suggesting using a high
frequency transformer as 'outboard' isolation for an existing Manzanita
Micro charger; I am pointing out that incorporating such a transformer
inside the charger would provide the desired isolation at a fraction of
the weight and cost.
I am not suggesting it is a trivial task to do this, just that it is the
'proper' way to make a high frequency isolated charger. And, yes, it is
possible: my employer designs and builds high-frequency isolated PFC
chargers that also accept DC-400Hz input and operate at >90% efficiency
(at 240VAC in; typically 88%+ at 120VAC). No, they are not serious
competition for Rich's product line as they are only 1kW output and our
present production models only handle up to 72V packs (we have done some
216VDC nominal versions and I've got a couple 144VDC prototypes for my
own EV).
Cheers,
Roger.
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No need to apologize, CL, but it's always best to stay as far away from
politics as you possibly can. The EV list members are very wide ranging in
their opinions, and very passionate. Many of them tend to defend their
positions vociferously. (A waste of time, IMO, since nobody really changes
his mind.)
It's the millieu. American politicians (or rather their advisors) now seem
to think that the only way to get votes is to shove every voter into one
camp or the other, then get each side hating the other. As far as they're
concerned, you're either left or right, democrat or republican. If you're
one of the few undecided or moderate voters, they'll herd you into their
corral if they can. If they can't, they'll pretty much tell you anything
(true or not) to get you to vote their way in the upcoming election, then
they're done with you for another couple of years.
Whichever side you're on, they'll tell you again and again that your side is
completely right, and the other side is completely wrong. No need to
consider any other information; they already have all the answers. You're
one of the True Believers, so you don't need to think - just feel. In
particular, feel anger! Thus we now have one of the world's most polarized
and angry electorates, and one of the world's most poorly informed - though
they know the slogans from the TV commercials by heart.
With things that polarized, no matter what you say about politics here, you
are going to make somebody mad. Best to just avoid politics altogether. If
somebody else posts political comment, just consider it flame bait and
ignore it. Experience shows that opinion is so strong that nothing you can
say will actually change anybody's mind anyway, so all that results from
political discussions (read: arguments) is noise and flames.
Stick to the practical aspects of EVs, the ones that you and I can actually
work on. And if you really want to start an argument here, don't bother with
politics. Just ask whether flooded or AGM batteries are better, or whether
AC or DC drives are better. <grin>
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 31 Mar 2005 at 12:14, Bob Rice wrote:
> he may get them from Trojan,
> best, US Battery, real good, or Exide good, too..
Here I must gently disagree with my friend Bob. While I'll admit that my
experience with them was over 15 years ago, and others may have different
experiences. But based on mine, I don't think that Exide is the equal of
either US or Trojan. (I also am not too keen on Johnson Controls, formerly
Globe Union, but then I don't know whether they even make GC batteries any
more.)
Trojan has quite a reputation; some have told me that while they may have
deserved that rep years ago, their product is not the same as it was then.
I don't know that, as I've used US Battery for a long time.
US Battery products are reasonably priced, esp. since they will sell
directly to EV hobbyists at special prices at or near wholesale. Trojan
does not do this, nor does Exide, and at least in my neck of the woods
Trojans have always been the most expensive batteries by a considerable
margin.
Also, US Battery will supply batteries with your choice of golf car,
automotive, combination, or L posts. They have nice lifting fittings on the
tops of the batteries, and supply a lift strap on request. Trojan also has
lifting fittings, but is much more restrictive on post availability. I
don't know about Exide these days.
Hope this helps.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 1 Apr 2005 at 9:54, bob jones wrote:
> Interstate has a big local presence. Is anyone
> familiar with their deep cycle batteries?
Interstate Workaholic batteries are US Battery brand. Many EV hobbyists
have used them over the years.
If you have a vehicle with enough load capacity, golf car batteries will be
your best value in terms of cost per mile of service. A 144v pack of them
will weigh close to 1600 lb. Too much weight? Floor sweeper 12-volters and
the 8 volt golf car batteries will both provide lower current and shorter
life, but are better than the marine batteries, which will die quickly.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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This is an outstanding idea!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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