EV Digest 4337
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Smarts in the US
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Batteries
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) OT , RE: Progress on my Hybrid Trike
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Batteries
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Flexible instrumentation
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Lithium chopper?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) NEDRA Power of DC June 11
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: shunt
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Serviceability (was electric heater core questions)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: clutchless shifting
by Robert MacDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Lithium chopper?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: WTB: shunt
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) GFCI with PFC?
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Lithium chopper?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: GFCI with PFC?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: GFCI with PFC?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Article on how to make your own shunts
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Article on how to make your own shunts
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) CAN controlled cahrger (Re: GFCI with PFC?)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Lithium chopper?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Lithium chopper?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) 8" vs 9"
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Flexible instrumentation-and road signs
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Here in France, second hand fortwo price start around 5000 euros :^)
new one start at 9000 euros and go to 13000 euros for convertible all option
model.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
> Hi Jerry,
> Are you sure it's $25k? When I was in Monaco a couple weeks ago and it
> seamed like EVery one was driving one (well thousands on the road), I
> stopped in a Mercedes dealer nearby and they said it was $10k Euros or
$13k
> US. Probably a couple $k for shipping though. The trick would be to buy
> some on the used market over there and get them shipped/approved here and
> use for conversions. If I was stationed over there, I could probably buy
> one through the local paper from an individual and ship if they're now
> approved here for licensing. I think realistically these need to be under
> $10k US to sell. I'd love to have one though after being in one.
> Have a nice day, Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
>
>
> > Hi Victor and All,
> > --- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > *If* this is true and indeed happening, we expect a
> > > great donors:
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.zapworld.com/about/news/news_smartRegulatoryApproval.asp
> >
> > You would be right if the Euro exchange rate was
> > better so they don't go for over $25k as an ICE as the
> > price stands now, or Zap wasn't in on it which makes
> > it doubtful from the start!!!
> > Now if the exchange rate changes as the economy
> > both here and even worse in Europe bites the big one
> > this summer and Smart or someone get's it past the
> > Fed's, then if they will sell gliders or finished
> > EV's, then you may be on to something as they were
> > designed to be an EV from the beginning along with as
> > a gas or diesel!!!
> > But that's a lot of if's ;-o
> > HTH's,
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Victor
> > > '91 ACRX - something different
> > >
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i'm talking about 12Ah cell, not 2ah though my paralleling system work on
all size lipoly cell.
Here you need 4 // to make a motorcycle sized module
8 // to have a car sized 3.7V96AH module capable of 600A continous (reducing
life to half)
not bat at $0,7/wh.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Batteries
> > No
> > 6C average.
> > they are from R/C lipoly cells world which is more than 10C continuous
but
> these are "made" to be energy not power cells.
> >
> > Philippe
> > just a question of time...
>
> ~$610/Kwh is about NiCd price range, but I hope they sell bigger ones -
take it
> from me, paralleling up little cells is for the birds!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Stu and All,
--- Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Stu, Joe and All,
> > From: "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > Good questions.
> > >
> > > A single bearing lean steer requires a castor
> > angle for the head angle.
> > > The problem with this lean steer system is that
> > you get the same angle at
> > > all speeds.
>
> Mine does too if I understand you right and
> works
> great, Honda did their homework on this and has been
> built for 20+ yrs though only sold in the US for 3
> yrs.
>
> Do you mind hard leaning in slow turns?
It doesn't. But yours will lean too hard if you
ever turn loose of your steadying bars it looks like
where I can lean with body english to steer on the
Gyro as it is so stable. The faster you go, the more
you lean.
You can easily get any lean you like with the
Gyro on demand.
>
>
>
> > >
> > > I am building a 2 bearing lean and independent
> > steer system. I have never
> > > seen it done before. The steering will be done
> by
>
> Maybe a reason? The idea is simple to achieve
> independent lean and
> steer.
It can be done easier with normal MC style
steering/tilting which tilts at ground level or as
close as you can get.. That's how the Gyro does it.
>
> Do you think that the relatively high position of my
> horizontal axis will be
> a major problem?
Yes, I think when you turn, it will want to
overtilt badly it seems but hard to tell from the
photo's but that's what it looks like. you will need
to be very careful to keep it in balance as it looks
very unstable.
By moving the pivot down to the batt tray, chassis
level, the front wheel will not have such a big lever
to pull the wheel, thus tilting frame, sideways taking
the seat with it in the opposite direction.
When you sit in it without holding on and with your
feet on the front wheel axle, do you fall over easily?
Now think of a sideways force on the wheel as in a
turn. What will happen?
If you pivots are lower, it should work well with
feet steering.
>
>
> > feet only. The
> > > throttles, brakes, and leaning will be
> controlled
> > by semi vertical bars
> > > connected to the rear part. I plan to hold
> myself
> > at any angle by
> > pressure
> > > between the 2 bars. The horizontal bearing
> would
> > allow me to go straight
> > > and lean as well (not used).
>
> Your high pivot has me worried as to make it
> more
> work trying to keep the front it upright.
> I'd either go for a low pivot like the Gyro or
> move the aft pivot down to the chassis and another
> in
> front down to the front of the batt box.
>
> Please elaborate here. Why 2 pivots ? As low as
> possible?
2 pivots for more rigidity and lower to keep
forces down that want to take the front wheel
sideways.
>
> With your feet down at the front wheel, wet is
> going to be a problem. Wet? As in water going up
> legs?
Yes.
It is hard to tell which lines are yours and mine.
Please mark yours so easier to read who is who.
>
>
>
>
> And no matter what you will
> need to hold on to handholds attached to the frame
> for
> balance, tilt control.
>
> Yes and to keep pressure on the electrical deadmans
> switch.
> share Joe's worry about the wheels taking the side
> loads. Even if the rims, their bearing can handle it
> which is iffy, the tires are not designed for that
> much weight, side stress either,
>
> The tires easily take 400 pound using 2 on a scooter
> at 50 mph.
>
> With the 3 tires, the rating is even more secure.
But still not designed for side loading, only up
and down forces. Ok for the front wheel but could be a
rear wheel, tire problem.
>
> Gorilla EV has a nice small MC front end that
> could work for higher speeds.
> So too summerize, I'd go for Gyro style more
> normal MC steering, tilt with a pivot, spring/shock
> to
> the motors tray and you could go much faster with
> that
> kind of power. With an aero body that power could
> move
> you very fast!!
> Over 20 mph without suspension is not
> conductive
> to long life of either your back or your wheels,
> frame.
>
>
> My recumbent trike goes about 29 mph with no added
> suspension. Very
> comfortable due to the chassis flex. I am basing
You are going on very smooth roads or one tough
hombre ;-)
I beat the death out of my trike moped wheels at
just 20mph from the beating they took in my commutes.
> this design on my past
> experience. Have you seen my GX-31 trike at my web
> site?
Not yet.
This is fairly off topic, call me if you like,
813-671-3059 as it's easier in person than all this
posting. Would be better on some other list on the
chassis part.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Stu
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just found out that one of the battery companies
that I work with, are trying to develope a graphite
battery. so far they have some pretty incredible
densities and discharge rates. The only problem is
they have not been able to charge them yet. I will
post more info as I find out.
Gadget
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Farver wrote:
> The trick is still getting a high contrast/daylight visible display.
> The monochrome palm screens are pretty easy to see in
> daylight, and are
> backlit for night. I have yet to find a affordable color
> screen that is
> both daylight visible and backlit. I am desperate for a solution,
> anyone have suggestions?
Hi Mark,
I'm certainly no expert on PC displays. It seems to me, though, that the
comparison between an LCD and standard dash instruments needs to put both on
equal footing. It's tough to get any instrumentation to be readable when
sun glare is present. That's why your dash instruments are sunk into a deep
recess, surrounded by black, and the cover glass (plastic) is angled sharply
away from your line of sight.
I think if you mounted a palmtop PC on your dash and put a simple black
shroud around the display you would see a dramatic improvement in
visibility. My thoughts were more in terms of a semi-permanent
installation, where this attention to stray light control is an achievable
goal.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hope to build one on my show first with the famous Billy Lane....
I've seen a dozen or so references to the new Gadget show, and I am very
excited that it will have EVs as a centerpiece, but I don't recall
seeing the name, nor hearing the expected air location/schedule. Have
either of these things been announced yet?
I'll program my Tivo to capture every episode if I can get some more
data. How about it? 8^)
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let us not forget, another crucial parameter is heat resistance. It's got
to be able to stand baking heat for hours on end, especially for us folks
in the south. Some LCDs fare better than others in this respect.
About visibility, I think the answer is a *front-lit* transflective
screen. My old Visor Prism has a gorgeous backlit screen with brilliant,
vivid colors, which is absolutely unreadable outdoors. I noted with some
dismayed envy that front-lit color Palm handhelds released at about the
same time were actually more readable in sunlight.
At any rate, I'm also very interested in some sort of software-driven
video dash panel for my truck. If pipe dreams were dollar bills...
--chris
Mark Farver said:
> Chris Tromley wrote:
>
>>Could you take a palmtop PC running Windows CE and read both your Link 10
>>and Zilla controller simultaneously? You can find palmtop PCs with color
>>display for around $100, which is about the same as a standard 2"
>> voltmeter
>>and ammeter from EVParts. The palmtop could be much more useful though.
>>
>>
> The trick is still getting a high contrast/daylight visible display.
> The monochrome palm screens are pretty easy to see in daylight, and are
> backlit for night. I have yet to find a affordable color screen that is
> both daylight visible and backlit. I am desperate for a solution,
> anyone have suggestions?
>
> Mark Farver
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
imho we don't need color for that purpose.
still trying to find a way to have alltrax controller information displaying
on a palm or pocket PC or whatelse make the job...
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Flexible instrumentation
> Chris Tromley wrote:
>
> >Could you take a palmtop PC running Windows CE and read both your Link 10
> >and Zilla controller simultaneously? You can find palmtop PCs with color
> >display for around $100, which is about the same as a standard 2"
voltmeter
> >and ammeter from EVParts. The palmtop could be much more useful though.
> >
> >
> The trick is still getting a high contrast/daylight visible display.
> The monochrome palm screens are pretty easy to see in daylight, and are
> backlit for night. I have yet to find a affordable color screen that is
> both daylight visible and backlit. I am desperate for a solution,
> anyone have suggestions?
>
> Mark Farver
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The NEDRA Power of DC event is fast approaching.
Saturday June 11, 2005 at Mason Dixon Dragway in Hagerstown Maryland.
Gates open at 11 and racing begins at noon.
We have a great line up of sponsors so far. Thanks to Otmar from Caf�
Electric, Rich Rudman from Manzanita Micro, Ken Koch at KTA Services,
Virginia Solar Council, Battery Warehouse, EVA/DC and QuickCable who is
providing QuickCable tools for prizes at the race. Also spoke with Shawn
Waggoner who came up last year from Florida.
For EV-1 fans, the Brigham Young University ultra-capacitor powered EV-1
will be at the race. West Virginia University will be there with their
Formula One racer.
NEDRA legends Darin Gilbert will be racing his record breaking 48 volt
Pirahna bike, Robert Salem and Dave Erb with Robert's Volkswagen truck.
Shawn Lawless will be there with a new EV and maybe the dragster. Kevin Zak
is considering racing their new dragster.
Several high schools will be there. We are hoping Miramar can make it up
with their Porsche. Great Mills High School with the Green Hornet MR2,
Central Shenenadoh with their 240-Z, Top Sail high school with their Paseo
and more.
The EV Challenge trailer will be there with the EV Challenge Spitfire.
And of course our local EVA/DC Chapter members will be racing and driving
their EVs to the race including Valerie Myers with her Sparrow, Charlie
Garlow with his S-10, my Ford Escort, Brian Murtha with his RAV-4 and
hopefully Chris Zack can make it as well.
For entertainment, local rock band WolfSpider, will be performing a rock
version of the Electric Slide.
For the kids, the EVA/DC Solar Slot Car Track will be set up. Food will be
barbequed on our solar cookers and our big George Foreman electric grill.
I've been in touch with the GM Fuel Cell folks who are interested in
bringing out one of their fuel cell cars to race.
More sponsors and racers are welcome to take part in the event. Just let me
know if you are interested.
Check out our website for info on this year's race and pictures from last
year's race
http://www.powerofdc.com
See ya on the 11th of June
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Power of DC Race Organizer
http://www.powerofdc.com
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Martin,
I am pretty sure I have a couple 50mv X 250A or 300A shunts in the
Junqueyard. If you don't find one sooner, I can check for you Thursday when
I get back to town and give you an e-mail.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:18 PM
Subject: WTB: shunt
> I'm looking for a shunt in the 250 amp range, slightly more or less
> would be fine I assume. I posted this here because I'm looking for a
> used [read: cheaper] one. I'm broke.
>
>
> --
> Martin K
> http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
Maybe I am misreading your expression victor but I haven't owned a car
new or used that I didn't end up working on.
OK. But I suspect your wife owning her car, never worked on it because
you do for her. Or service station. So she doesn't care (to the same
degree as you) how difficult it is to unbolt an intake manifold, she
may not even know what it is. Most people care about turning key when
she needs to go from A to B and a car delivers her from A to B.
(Does not apply to people on this list).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
You can shift perfectly from gear to gear without a clutch. You just
need to syncronize the speed yourself.
Or get a computer to do it for you. All it needs is control of
engine/motor speed, and to know which gear you're nudging towards.
Optionally, add a gate solenoid to each gear so you can't actually get
it in until it's synced.
You wouldn't need all that on gears that never use or never shift into
while moving.
Robert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm, they make a lithium electric chopper, and hide everything
inside of regular gasoline chopper components? Possible, but does
seem like alot more work. Has anyone actually seen this thing run?
Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi James,
It's for a battle-bot that needs current limiting but doesn't have it.
The input will be an opamp-buffered microcontroller A/D converter so
it's completely adjustable. I think I may try the 12" of 10 gauge wire
and see how accurate that is. We don't need precision control so within
15 amps would be nice.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I really don't have any cash
(engagement ring ate it) so the wire is probably my best bet.
Sorry it's not the type of electric vehicle you get in and drive around,
but it does show people that electric drives can be powerful!
--
Martin
James Massey wrote:
At 11:18 PM 3/05/05 -0400, Martin K wrote:
I'm looking for a shunt in the 250 amp range, slightly more or less
would be fine I assume. I posted this here because I'm looking for a
used [read: cheaper] one. I'm broke.
Hi Martin
How many millivolts at 250A?
A shunt generates usually 50mV or 75mV for it's full scale continuous
current handling. What is your application?
I'd assume that you have a digital instrument that is scaleable? Or are
you just treating a meter as 100% is 250A (etc).
A shunt is just a low value resistor, if you have means of calibrating,
and don't want extreme accuracy, there is the option of making your own.
75mV at 250A is 0.0003 ohms.
I've mislaid my printout of wire resistance for size for length, but for
example you may find that a certain size of wire gives 75mV across (say)
18 inches. You could make up a cable that is (say) 24 inches long, with
a tap-in point 3 inches in from each end. You can't put the sense wires
into the power crimps, you will get unpredictable errors. Now comes the
hard part - you have to put a known current through it, and see what
your meter (or whatever) reads, then calibrate accordingly.
I have only done this for a 50A circuit in a mobile home 'house' system.
It worked sufficiently well for their application.
James
--
Martin K
http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey guys,
This question is primarily directed at Rich (and Victor), but anyone who
knows please take a crack at it (e.g. Steve?). I'm having an electrician
come to install two separate, independent 240V, 50A dedicated circuits with
14-50 outlets, both outside at the driveway, for EV charging. One of the
circuits is for a Magne Charge (TCG2000) small paddle inductive charger for
my new Toyota RAV4-EV (at least "new" for me). The installation manual for
the charger emphasizes NOT to install a GFCI on the circuit because the
charger is equipped with its own built-in ground fault protector that may
cause a GFCI to malfunction. I've been told by people who know about these
things that if there were a GFCI on the circuit, the charger would be
tripping more often than Timothy Leary.
The second 240V, 50A dedicated circuit will be for future use with
conversion projects I have in the works with Steve Clunn. I had originally
planned to use Brusa chargers (despite my qualms over their exhorbitant
price and lack of service here in the US), primarily due to their CAN
functionality. But the more people I speak with about this decision
(especially in the last few weeks with some highly knowledgeable and
experienced people who are a lot smarter than I am), the more I am leaning
towards a PFC-50, assuming that my system integrator can find a way to get
their li-ion BMS to talk to the PFC. (They would do so using CAN with a
Brusa, so I don't know if they would have to find a way to translate from
CANbus to Rich's RegBus or what.) Will have to see about that one. Anyway,
my question is this:
Does a PFC-50 also have its own built-in ground fault protector (like the
TCG2000) that would cause a GFCI on the circuit to malfunction? And
therefore, should I also NOT install a GFCI on the 240V, 50A dedicated
circuit that I will be using in the future with a PFC-50? Or is it OK to
have a GFCI on the circuit?
Same question to Victor, I guess, in order to cover all of my options.
Should I NOT have a GFCI installed on the circuit for use with a Brusa, or
is it OK to have a GFCI on the circuit?
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/4/05, David Dymaxion wrote:
> Hmmm, they make a lithium electric chopper, and hide everything
> inside of regular gasoline chopper components? Possible, but does
> seem like a lot more work. Has anyone actually seen this thing run?
Some pics of it being built:
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/project/1.html
Still no mention of why they made it electric, or who insisted on it,
or what the motive was.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My BMS will drive external analog gauges you can calibrate in Volts,
SOC, Ah, whatever. No screens needed, just as manu gauges as many
values you want to see. That is when it is completely ready...
Oh, yes, it does work with 12V batteries.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Mark Farver wrote:
Chris Tromley wrote:
Could you take a palmtop PC running Windows CE and read both your Link 10
and Zilla controller simultaneously? You can find palmtop PCs with color
display for around $100, which is about the same as a standard 2"
voltmeter
and ammeter from EVParts. The palmtop could be much more useful though.
The trick is still getting a high contrast/daylight visible display.
The monochrome palm screens are pretty easy to see in daylight, and are
backlit for night. I have yet to find a affordable color screen that is
both daylight visible and backlit. I am desperate for a solution,
anyone have suggestions?
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Charles Whalen wrote:
Hey guys,
...
Same question to Victor, I guess, in order to cover all of my options.
Should I NOT have a GFCI installed on the circuit for use with a Brusa, or
is it OK to have a GFCI on the circuit?
It doesn't have one, and if you install it on your service panel,
it will not impact its operation.
Since BRUSA's are isolated charger, if GFI trips, this will
mean problem with the charger only, not beyond it.
Since the car body is alwaus isolated from the mains, there is
no chance you touch a car while in a puddle of water and it will
shock you, so if you want to install GFI to prevent this, it is
pointless.
But as I said, it will trip if internally (to the charger) there is
leakage from [one of the] hot to ground bypassing return wire.
So if you want to sleep better, install it, whether you'll be
able to take advantage of it or not. Won't hurt.
FWIW, I don't have GFI installed and in 2 years have no problem
with my BRUSA charging from either 120VAC or 240VAC.
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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PLEASE install a "Hot tub" rated GFCI breaker on any feed to a PFC charger.
I WANT you to have a GFI!!!
The Hot Tub breakers have a 20 Ma trip point that is 4 times less sensitive
than the normal GFCI. There will be leaks, most are not noticable, But are
measureable.
PFC50s have a 50 amp line breaker double pole on the front, NO GFI, and
there won't be one there.... Ever.
With a NON isolated charger, that my current PFC series is, Assume you have
NO isllation what so ever. And then plan on protecting your self from there.
Assume the worst, get pleasantly surprised by the reality of it all.
I find the TCG2000 inductive charger as having a real isolation issue in
the real world as hilarious!!! They bragged how "Safe" they were, it
clearly isn't so.
I have no current plans on a CAN buss interface for the PFC series of
chargers, But... Victor and some others are trying to make this happen. I
will do all I can to support and enhance thier
efforts. I have my plate full with real Isolated chargers and liquid cooled
higher power chargers. At the last count I have 4 distinct new products in
process. I am keeping a few dozzen square inches available in side all my
chargers just to support, what ever "micro brains" comes my way. There is a
new DSP card here just for this concept. Thanks to a heavy hitter on this
list for getting it into my hands.
Any body wanna write a CAN buss interface for a TI 320F2812???
The RegBuss is NOT a charger control interface it's a Reg data path way to
suck real time data fromn every Reg. That's it's target, until It does that
and well I am not asking the design team for anything else.
And I am not really impressed with CAN, I would rather do a USB level 2
port, with GUI user interfaces for lap and Palm tops. Yea Invent my own
interface, then publish the hooks and source code to let the more Digitally
enhanced clients of mine, take it from there.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: GFCI with PFC?
> Hey guys,
>
> This question is primarily directed at Rich (and Victor), but anyone who
> knows please take a crack at it (e.g. Steve?). I'm having an electrician
> come to install two separate, independent 240V, 50A dedicated circuits
with
> 14-50 outlets, both outside at the driveway, for EV charging. One of the
> circuits is for a Magne Charge (TCG2000) small paddle inductive charger
for
> my new Toyota RAV4-EV (at least "new" for me). The installation manual
for
> the charger emphasizes NOT to install a GFCI on the circuit because the
> charger is equipped with its own built-in ground fault protector that may
> cause a GFCI to malfunction. I've been told by people who know about
these
> things that if there were a GFCI on the circuit, the charger would be
> tripping more often than Timothy Leary.
>
> The second 240V, 50A dedicated circuit will be for future use with
> conversion projects I have in the works with Steve Clunn. I had
originally
> planned to use Brusa chargers (despite my qualms over their exhorbitant
> price and lack of service here in the US), primarily due to their CAN
> functionality. But the more people I speak with about this decision
> (especially in the last few weeks with some highly knowledgeable and
> experienced people who are a lot smarter than I am), the more I am leaning
> towards a PFC-50, assuming that my system integrator can find a way to get
> their li-ion BMS to talk to the PFC. (They would do so using CAN with a
> Brusa, so I don't know if they would have to find a way to translate from
> CANbus to Rich's RegBus or what.) Will have to see about that one.
Anyway,
> my question is this:
>
> Does a PFC-50 also have its own built-in ground fault protector (like the
> TCG2000) that would cause a GFCI on the circuit to malfunction? And
> therefore, should I also NOT install a GFCI on the 240V, 50A dedicated
> circuit that I will be using in the future with a PFC-50? Or is it OK to
> have a GFCI on the circuit?
>
> Same question to Victor, I guess, in order to cover all of my options.
> Should I NOT have a GFCI installed on the circuit for use with a Brusa, or
> is it OK to have a GFCI on the circuit?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charles Whalen
>
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http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/shunts/shunts.html
BoyntonStu
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/shunts/shunts.html
BoyntonStu
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Rich Rudman wrote:
And I am not really impressed with CAN, I would rather do a USB level 2
port, with GUI user interfaces for lap and Palm tops. Yea Invent my own
interface, then publish the hooks and source code to let the more Digitally
enhanced clients of mine, take it from there.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
I would not use anything but CAN (or at least any other differential
bus type) in automotive environment.
I am *very* impressed with CAN protocol reliability and error handling
abilities. All that USB, I2C and other implementations for
computers and embedded things are pathetic jokes compared to CAN.
My hat's off to Robert Bosch - what he did was genious invention.
I'll post a few saved waveforms of the test bus traffic saved by my
tusty Croy scope - a S/N ratio far less than 1 and looks like total
mess vs. ground, but ideal pulses after CAN transceiver on the uP side.
If you're not impressed Rich, you probably haven't been exposed to
it enough.
Anyway, thanks for supporting your all with your chargers. CAN
controlled PFC charger (add on CAN option) is quite straight
forward task if you formalise control requirements.
Frankly, I don't see a need for CAN control of a charger unless one
also has BMS or other CAN enabled hardware which wants to talk to
the charger.
Perhaps this topic is rather for EVBMS list?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
From: "Chris Tromley"
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: Flexible instrumentation
> For me the real attraction of this, beyond the functionality, is that it
> should be fairly obsolescence-proof. I worked with aircraft displays for a
> while. Flat panel displays allowed unheard of flexibility, but they
> literally went obsolete so fast we had to redesign our instruments *before*
> they got to production. Twice. Using a $100 palmtop and code that
> presumably migrates as the OS advances should eliminate that problem. And
> of course whoever decides to do this will make all the code open-source, so
> we all get to play with it. :-)
>
> Any takers?
>
> Chris
Excellent idea Chris!
I don't have any programming ability, but I would sure be willing to give some
help somehow.
Count me in!
Rush
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the link. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I didn't
see anything that indicates this is an electric chopper. Maybe just
the starter battery is Lithium?
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 5/4/05, David Dymaxion wrote:
> > Hmmm, they make a lithium electric chopper, and hide everything
> > inside of regular gasoline chopper components? Possible, but does
> > seem like a lot more work. Has anyone actually seen this thing
> run?
>
> Some pics of it being built:
>
>
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/project/1.html
>
>
> Still no mention of why they made it electric, or who insisted on
> it,
> or what the motive was.
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
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David Dymaxion wrote:
> Thanks for the link. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I didn't
> see anything that indicates this is an electric chopper. Maybe just
> the starter battery is Lithium?
This pic is rather telling:
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/project/13.html
This one too:
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/completed/34.html
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> The trick is still getting a high contrast/daylight visible display.
> The monochrome palm screens are pretty easy to see in daylight, and are
> backlit for night. I have yet to find a affordable color screen that is
> both daylight visible and backlit. I am desperate for a solution,
> anyone have suggestions?
The Fujitu stylistic LT with daylight readable screen.
It's a bit bigger than a palmtop with an 8" screen, but then it's actually
pen based PC.
It has a "transflective" screen (basically a one way mirror between the
backlight and display). It's easy to read in bright daylight or inside.
The 1/2 mirror makes it a bit dimmer than a normal backlit display. The
only time it's hard to read is when it's not bright enough to get
sufficient sunlight through the display to the 1/2 mirror and back, but to
bright to see the dimmer than normal backlight. It's still visible with
high contrast colors and adding a task light will fix this.
Fujitsu is way to proud of them for me to buy one new, but they go for
fairly reasonable prices eBAY. I'm using one right now.
Because they are bigger than a palmtop, they make a much better GPS
display. I bought a USB GPS puck off eBay for $50.
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Will this fancy display reduce range?
http://img228.echo.cx/img228/1084/indash5be.jpg
I can't imagine how it won't vs's just having an analog voltage and ammeter..
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> http://img228.echo.cx/img228/1084/indash5be.jpg
Link for the screen:
http://www.gnetcanada.com/mobilevideo.asp
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I [use to] use it in my ACRX:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/display2.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/main2.htm
Indeed works well in day light - the brighter - the better.
The biggest problem for outdoor use was unacceptable contrast
change with temperature.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
The trick is still getting a high contrast/daylight visible display.
The monochrome palm screens are pretty easy to see in daylight, and are
backlit for night. I have yet to find a affordable color screen that is
both daylight visible and backlit. I am desperate for a solution,
anyone have suggestions?
The Fujitu stylistic LT with daylight readable screen.
It's a bit bigger than a palmtop with an 8" screen, but then it's actually
pen based PC.
It has a "transflective" screen (basically a one way mirror between the
backlight and display). It's easy to read in bright daylight or inside.
The 1/2 mirror makes it a bit dimmer than a normal backlit display. The
only time it's hard to read is when it's not bright enough to get
sufficient sunlight through the display to the 1/2 mirror and back, but to
bright to see the dimmer than normal backlight. It's still visible with
high contrast colors and adding a task light will fix this.
Fujitsu is way to proud of them for me to buy one new, but they go for
fairly reasonable prices eBAY. I'm using one right now.
Because they are bigger than a palmtop, they make a much better GPS
display. I bought a USB GPS puck off eBay for $50.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello
I recntly received a free 1986 Toyota 4x4. It weighs
3100, but I need to get it to the scale to see what it
is at after the bed is removed.
I was wondering what I would loose if I used the 8"
motor. I was thinking my finished weight would be able
3800 lbs.
Is it possible to burn out the motor, or it will never
get to 55 mph. I really don't need it to go much
faster.
Also I live in Alaska, and I have issues get stuff
shipped up here that weigh more than 150 lbs. Does the
9" motor weigh exactly 150? You'd think they'd design
so it was shippable vs truckable.
Can the housing be taken off, and shipped in two
containers?
Are there any other motors that can be used that are
similiar to the 9" but perhaps doesn't weigh as much?
E.A. says it will take two months to make the adapter
plate for this truck, unless someone has one laying
around?
Thanks
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
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Victor,
cool picture on your web site. Where you installing
your own signs or is that an actual road sign?
"Use of exhaust brakes prohibited"
"Use of regenerative brakes encouraged"
Cool pic either way.
Rod
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I [use to] use it in my ACRX:
>
>
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/display2.jpg
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/main2.htm
>
> Indeed works well in day light - the brighter - the
> better.
> The biggest problem for outdoor use was unacceptable
> contrast
> change with temperature.
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >>The trick is still getting a high
> contrast/daylight visible display.
> >>The monochrome palm screens are pretty easy to see
> in daylight, and are
> >>backlit for night. I have yet to find a
> affordable color screen that is
> >>both daylight visible and backlit. I am desperate
> for a solution,
> >>anyone have suggestions?
> >
> >
> > The Fujitu stylistic LT with daylight readable
> screen.
> >
> > It's a bit bigger than a palmtop with an 8"
> screen, but then it's actually
> > pen based PC.
> >
> > It has a "transflective" screen (basically a one
> way mirror between the
> > backlight and display). It's easy to read in
> bright daylight or inside.
> > The 1/2 mirror makes it a bit dimmer than a normal
> backlit display. The
> > only time it's hard to read is when it's not
> bright enough to get
> > sufficient sunlight through the display to the 1/2
> mirror and back, but to
> > bright to see the dimmer than normal backlight.
> It's still visible with
> > high contrast colors and adding a task light will
> fix this.
> >
> > Fujitsu is way to proud of them for me to buy one
> new, but they go for
> > fairly reasonable prices eBAY. I'm using one
> right now.
> >
> > Because they are bigger than a palmtop, they make
> a much better GPS
> > display. I bought a USB GPS puck off eBay for
> $50.
>
>
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