EV Digest 4354
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Cruise Control : Zillas
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Optima SAE Posts
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: An update regarding my JeepEV
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: My project and question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re:1998 Ford EV Ranger
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: My project and question
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: My project and question
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: OT: Yahoo archive, was: Re: Charger schematic
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Optima SAE Posts
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: My project and question
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Rear wheel idea for fully enclosed MC
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) RE: My project and question
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Optima SAE Posts
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: "eBay hype" or innovation?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Cruise Control : Zillas
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: "eBay hype" or innovation?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Fw: [electric_vehicles_for_sale] Re: Comments about GE ecomaignation letter
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: An update regarding my JeepEV
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Max temp during charge
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: cruise control?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: GP3300 Ultimate Racing Battery?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Mitsubishi Goes Electric: New EVs in 2010
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: My project and question
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) TdS Report #29: Team Profile: Methacton High School, "The Lorax"
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
This cruise control thread has had my attention.
Neon John wrote:
I'm somewhat surprised that the better EV controllers don't have this
feature. Very simple to add
This is apparently a "future feature" on the Zilla line of controllers.
The connections are there for it, I think it is a software issue. Maybe
if enough people express interest in this to Otmar, we'll see it soon.
I'm looking forward to connecting it on the 200sx. It's not a high
priority, but just one more thing to tell everyone that it has. So far,
power steering, power brakes, AC (well, soon). It would be great to
include cruise.
I'm not exactly sure how often I would use it. Who uses cruise around
town? :)
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As mentioned in my recent post, I plan on using Optima batteries in my
Civic.
My first plan was to go with US8GVC floodeds, and I appreciated the various
options for posts. The 'L" configuration was chosen.
Now I am questioning the SAE posts offered on Optimas. That style provides
good contact area, but the clamps are bulky.
In an effort to improve AND further complicate my project I am considering
modifying the tapered posts so that they can take standard lugs. From my
comfy chair this seems reasonable. What do you think?
Consider this:
I have a large mill. Lead is easy to machine. Using an end mill, flatten
opposite sides of each post, then drill a thru hole in each post. I have
seen this style (Universal?) offered on other brand batts.
Cautions-
Keep milling forces low to avoid post seal problems.
Avoid shorts during handling/milling!!!
Is my aversion to SAE posts unwarranted?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Roger Stockton wrote:
If you can get the current to taper to about 2A, this is a reassuring
sign. -snip- Your hydrometer is your friend ;^> Every cell better
be at least 1.275, and preferably at least 1.290 when measured a few
hours after charge completion.
Over the last few days now I've been very careful to keep my charger
running until the battery current tapered to around 2 amps. And now I
finally seem to have the timer on my PFC charger set correctly.
I've noticed some changes in the last few days which I will share as I'd
be interested to hear any thoughts about them...
Today and yesterday I drove my Jeep to/from school, which is a ~30 mile
round trip, mostly at speeds of 40-50 mph. I charge at school during the
day, so I'm driving ~15 miles on a single charge. In the past, this trip
to/from school had been very hard to make without the batteries being
almost dead at the end of the trip. Yesterday and today, this has not
been the case, and I've actually had quite a bit of power to spare
afterwards -- so there has been an improvement. Ok, here's some data I
recorded yesterday.
Trip Distance: 15.6 mi
After getting home:
Pack Voltage: 163.7 volts
Specific Gravity: ~1.190
After charging:
Pack Voltage: 170.5 volts
Specific Gravity: ~1.279
AC Power used: 10.9 kWh
Also, I've observed several things that have suddenly changed in the
last few days:
First, my pack voltage isn't sagging as badly as before. I don't think I
ever saw it drop below 130 volts during these last 15-mile trips to/from
school, which is an accomplishment seeing as how it used to sag down
into the 120-125 volt range under heavy loads (especially on longer
trips) in the past.
Another change I've noticed is that the off-load voltage is suddenly a
terrible indicator of state of charge. It used to be that I'd start a
trip at about 168-169 volts, and I'd slowly see the off-load voltage go
down the farther I drove. After a 14-16 mile trip, the off-load voltage
would be in the 157-161 volt range, about when my batteries were dead
(as in, would no longer deliver the 200-300+ amps I need to accelerate
in any reasonable amount of time). But Now, I start the trip at 169-170
volts, and within the first 1-3 miles I see the off-load voltage drop
_very_ quickly to about 164 volts. Yet, the voltage just stays there.
Even after 16 miles today the off-load voltage was as high as 164 volts.
Is this really weird or was it weird before and now they're acting more
"normal"?
The last thing I'll mention is that I've recently noticed a fairly large
difference in battery voltages while charging. For example, during the
end of the charge cycle I just did tonight, I saw one battery at 9.57
volts and another at 9.86 volts! Seems like way to much of a difference...
I'm guessing it's time to do another EQ charge?
Awaiting thoughts/comments and hoping I'm right to interpret what I've
seen in the past few days as good news that my batteries are becoming
healthier.
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice choice of car for an EV conversion. It was efficient as a gasser.
Looks like a good start to me. A big motor for efficiency, a controller
that can control battery side and motor side current- nice.
With that much weight in the car, I might not use Tokico struts, if
Bilsteins are available.
I don't know where you live, but battery heating and/or cooling can be
an issue. One kills life, the other range.
Nice start, and good luck.
Seth
On May 11, 2005, at 10:35 PM, Richard Rau wrote:
I apologize if this is a repeat ... my system was acting up this
afternoon.
Okay, now that introductions are complete (earlier today) I am ready to
expose my project along with a burning question. Here is my
conversion-
'92 Honda VX Hatchback, 5spd stock trans.
WarP 9" motor
Optima Batts. 13ea. of the larger #31's=156V
Zilla Z1K controller w/ large venturis and hi-volume acc. pumps ;-)
Hall effect Amp Pedal
PFC-20B Manzanita Micro charger
Rutman Regs. - planning on remote LED placement
Zivan DC-DC converter
Civic Si disc brakes Frt.&Rr
Tokico struts w/ Eibach springs
Calfskin driving gloves
Well, maybe it won't be *that* fast, but I expect it to be a little
sportier
than my GEM Utility NEV.
I decided to build a sporty car, even at the expense of RANGE. Ask
me in a
year if I am still satisfied with 25 miles.
I am early into the fabrication part of it now. The designers at
Honda did
such a good job of filling the available nooks and crannies that I am
hard
pressed to make it look like a 'factory' job. Enough whining.
Nine of the Optimas will be in two boxes, one is forward of and one is
behind the rear 'axle'.
These two boxes will be as low and as unobtrusive as I can make them.
(Victor's ACRX is a beautiful example)
Here is my question -
ACTIVE BATTERY BOX VENTILATION ?? I would like to SKIP that. Who of
you
believes that I can safely do that? Who thinks I should increase my
life
insurance payoff?
Yes, these are sealed AGM's and they will be charged carefully (barring
equipment failures or adjustment error). Hydrogen accumulation in
(sealed?) battery boxes should not be a problem, right?
I am hoping that this subject is interesting to some of you on the
list. I
value your opinions.
Respectfully,
Richard Rau
2001 GEM short-bed
2003 Giant LA Free bicycle w/NiMH batts.
Co-founder of BikeE Corp.
Honda Civic 3dr. (est. completion in fall 2005)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have noticed that the 8v Delphi batteries like to be babyed. If I give
them long steady charges and keep them at 10v maybe 10.1 They do well.
Interesting what pulsing would do for them. I got a bunch that need
reviving. I use Rudman regs to force them into line. I used to drive to
Berkeley or San Mateo from San Francisco and only use half capacity. On
level ground the Aspire had about an 80 mile flat land range at 45mph.(30
batteries) Was great around the city. A bit porky though. It's going to a
15 battery configuration shortly we'll see if it can do 40 miles. Doutful
though. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:14 PM
Subject: Re:1998 Ford EV Ranger
Well just back from the detailers it looks brand new! It now has a 34 mile
range with about 3-4 miles in reserve.I have driven it about 1300
miles,and last
months electric bill increased 20 bucks.The truck sat for a year before I
got
it Uncharged.It has the 8 volt batteries which were replaced 80 miles
before
it was put up 1 year ago.The batteries only had 6 volts when I got the
truck,so they have come back nicely.Each week I drive it they seem to give
up a mile
or so more range.How many miles do you think it will level out at with the
mistreated batteries it has?Do you think I could get the expected 20000
mile life
ford estimates? EV RACER to EV Daily Driver Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
'92 Honda VX Hatchback, 5spd stock trans.
WarP 9" motor
can you get a 9 in there , in a light car the 8 would do just fine , look at
Rich's goldie .
Optima Batts. 13ea. of the larger #31's=156V
Zilla Z1K controller w/ large venturis and hi-volume acc. pumps ;-)
as your going with 13 batteries , you are getting the low voltage controller
, I'd get the 300v volt one , its not that much more but you can put more
batteries in the car ,
Well, maybe it won't be *that* fast, but I expect it to be a little
sportier
than my GEM Utility NEV.
How times have changed , I remember getting my first zapi 600 amp
controller , " we got power now " , :-)
I decided to build a sporty car, even at the expense of RANGE. Ask me in
a
year if I am still satisfied with 25 miles.
I went from 20 to 25 golf cart batteries in my work truck and it opened up
allot more driving for me , I would really think about trying to get more
batteries in there.
Here is my question -
ACTIVE BATTERY BOX VENTILATION ?? I would like to SKIP that. Who of you
believes that I can safely do that? Who thinks I should increase my life
insurance payoff?
On a few of my EV's with golf cart batteries I could smell the batteries
when I'd get into the car , and drive with the windows open to air things
out, but I have never smelled anything with the Orbitals ( agm's) ,
Yes, these are sealed AGM's and they will be charged carefully (barring
equipment failures or adjustment error). Hydrogen accumulation in
(sealed?) battery boxes should not be a problem, right?
I am hoping that this subject is interesting to some of you on the list.
I
value your opinions.
Respectfully,
Richard Rau
2001 GEM short-bed
2003 Giant LA Free bicycle w/NiMH batts.
Co-founder of BikeE Corp.
Honda Civic 3dr. (est. completion in fall 2005)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard, I would suggest you try to design your system with no batteries
behind the rear axle. Handling will really suffer if you push that much
weight that far back. If you take a look, you will see a stock Honda has
no real weight behind the axle. I fit 4 group 31 Dynasty AGMs under the
hood on my '88 Civic conversion and 9 more in a well where the gas tank had
been. Yes, I gave up the back seat, but I would have been way over GVW if
I retained it and tried to carry passengers in the back. I built a deck
something like a CRX to hide the batteries and chargers.
I did not enclose my batteries in boxes, in retrospect I think that was a
mistake. While there haven't been any problems without the boxes, I did
have one gassing event when my charger ran away without a temp sensor. At
the time the car was only semi-completed and had almost no interior so
there was no permanent damage to the car. The Delphi batteries I was
running at the time did not fare as well. I never could determine if that
was the source of the subsequent battery problems or not.
I think you will need some forced ventilation for your battery boxes just
to keep the batteries from overheating during heavy charging. There should
be virtually no gassing of hydrogen during normal charge/discharge cycles
with AGMs.
Get the Si stabilizer bars (or better) while your at it.
BTW, don't forget a heavy duty clutch. My 8" ADV and Auburn Kodiak at 156
Volts will make my stock clutch slip if I hit it too hard. Also, lighten
and balance the flywheel.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
Wasting imported oil is not an act of patriotism, conserving it is.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11 May 2005 at 19:25, James Massey wrote:
> I have a dim recollection that some time in the past three to five years,
> the general list became aware that there was a yahoo list and archive that
> was (effectively) pirating the SJSU list, with no-one responsible for the
> SJSU list being aware that yahoo was intending to do this ...
I'll let Bruce Parmentier speak for himself, but I believe that he's the one
who
set up the Yahoo archive. Yahoo has so many groups already that I can't
imagine anyone there chasing after a mailing list, but of course I could be
wrong.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 11, 2005, at 8:12 PM, Richard Rau wrote:
In an effort to improve AND further complicate my project I am
considering
modifying the tapered posts so that they can take standard lugs.
From my
comfy chair this seems reasonable. What do you think?
BAD idea! The Optima posts are welded to the inner lead post at the top
on the SAE post. If you cut into the side very far you break the seal.
If you drill the post you will certainly break this seal. Learn to like
auto type posts. They like high amp draws :-)
Paul "neon" Gooch
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You brought up some good points Steve.
I chose the 9" motor for efficiency reasons. Yes, an 8" would work fine, but
I have room for the larger diameter because I am not placing a battery over
the motor as is often done in Civics. Headlight rack batteries will fit
also.
Only 13 batteries. I may regret that someday. True, I did buy the 156V max
Zilla, so I will be limited. There may be a good used Z1K available
someday.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 8:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: My project and question
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> '92 Honda VX Hatchback, 5spd stock trans.
> WarP 9" motor
>
can you get a 9 in there , in a light car the 8 would do just fine , look at
Rich's goldie .
> Optima Batts. 13ea. of the larger #31's=156V
> Zilla Z1K controller w/ large venturis and hi-volume acc. pumps ;-)
as your going with 13 batteries , you are getting the low voltage controller
, I'd get the 300v volt one , its not that much more but you can put more
batteries in the car ,
> Well, maybe it won't be *that* fast, but I expect it to be a little
> sportier
> than my GEM Utility NEV.
>
How times have changed , I remember getting my first zapi 600 amp
controller , " we got power now " , :-)
> I decided to build a sporty car, even at the expense of RANGE. Ask me in
> a
> year if I am still satisfied with 25 miles.
>
I went from 20 to 25 golf cart batteries in my work truck and it opened up
allot more driving for me , I would really think about trying to get more
batteries in there.
>
>
> Here is my question -
>
> ACTIVE BATTERY BOX VENTILATION ?? I would like to SKIP that. Who of you
> believes that I can safely do that? Who thinks I should increase my life
> insurance payoff?
On a few of my EV's with golf cart batteries I could smell the batteries
when I'd get into the car , and drive with the windows open to air things
out, but I have never smelled anything with the Orbitals ( agm's) ,
>
>
>
> Yes, these are sealed AGM's and they will be charged carefully (barring
> equipment failures or adjustment error). Hydrogen accumulation in
> (sealed?) battery boxes should not be a problem, right?
>
>
>
> I am hoping that this subject is interesting to some of you on the list.
> I
> value your opinions.
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Richard Rau
>
> 2001 GEM short-bed
>
> 2003 Giant LA Free bicycle w/NiMH batts.
>
> Co-founder of BikeE Corp.
>
> Honda Civic 3dr. (est. completion in fall 2005)
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would this design work if scaled up for motorcycle sized wheels?
http://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/2005/050428.Shim.bike.html
Might work well with electric drive (even if originated for kid's bikes)!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike, Your Civic was an early inspiration to me so I'm all ears.
Re: weight distribution- Of the 9 Optimas going into the rear of the car,
only 3 of them will be behind the rear axle crossmember. 6 will be the area
of the deleted back seat cushion. Tis the best I could do. My axle weight
percentages aren't too bad. 54% frt /46% rear.
On the subject of enclosing the batteries, I apparently hadn't given enough
consideration to the heating/cooling part of it. It would be wise for me to
insulate the rear boxes and also to run a fan for cooling. Come winter I
would be hurting for range with such a low capacity pack.
Should I then have some spacers between batteries to aid in cooling air
circulation? (Swelling should not be an issue with Optimas)
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Chancey
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 8:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: My project and question
Richard, I would suggest you try to design your system with no batteries
behind the rear axle. Handling will really suffer if you push that much
weight that far back. If you take a look, you will see a stock Honda has
no real weight behind the axle. I fit 4 group 31 Dynasty AGMs under the
hood on my '88 Civic conversion and 9 more in a well where the gas tank had
been. Yes, I gave up the back seat, but I would have been way over GVW if
I retained it and tried to carry passengers in the back. I built a deck
something like a CRX to hide the batteries and chargers.
I did not enclose my batteries in boxes, in retrospect I think that was a
mistake. While there haven't been any problems without the boxes, I did
have one gassing event when my charger ran away without a temp sensor. At
the time the car was only semi-completed and had almost no interior so
there was no permanent damage to the car. The Delphi batteries I was
running at the time did not fare as well. I never could determine if that
was the source of the subsequent battery problems or not.
I think you will need some forced ventilation for your battery boxes just
to keep the batteries from overheating during heavy charging. There should
be virtually no gassing of hydrogen during normal charge/discharge cycles
with AGMs.
Get the Si stabilizer bars (or better) while your at it.
BTW, don't forget a heavy duty clutch. My 8" ADV and Auburn Kodiak at 156
Volts will make my stock clutch slip if I hit it too hard. Also, lighten
and balance the flywheel.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
Wasting imported oil is not an act of patriotism, conserving it is.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Valuable advice Paul. I would have been hurtin fur certain had
I gone ahead with the milling plan.
Now, according to 'Alex's Law of Compensatory Returns', I can take all
the time saved and put it somewhere else. Thanks! :-)
(Alexis was Johnny Carson's 4th wife)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul G.
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 8:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Optima SAE Posts
On May 11, 2005, at 8:12 PM, Richard Rau wrote:
> In an effort to improve AND further complicate my project I am
> considering
> modifying the tapered posts so that they can take standard lugs.
> From my
> comfy chair this seems reasonable. What do you think?
BAD idea! The Optima posts are welded to the inner lead post at the top
on the SAE post. If you cut into the side very far you break the seal.
If you drill the post you will certainly break this seal. Learn to like
auto type posts. They like high amp draws :-)
Paul "neon" Gooch
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Could you share the URL for the pulse charger plans that you mention you are
thinking about building? Thanks David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: "eBay hype" or innovation?
> On Wed, 11 May 2005 09:17:00 +1000, "Ben Haines"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >So your saying from your experiance, these battery revival that they are
> >able to bring back the capacity but the batteries still had a high
> >internal discharge? Quite promising. I wonder how a set of batteries
> >would go over time if they periodicaly had the battery rivial done to
> >them as part of routine maintainalnce?
>
> Not internal discharge but lost capacity. It's like the pores in the
> plates seal back up or something. IOW, if I let the battery sit for a
> period of time and discharge it, the capacity drops. Recharge and
> discharge again and the capacity remains at the lower level. It
> recovers again when the pulser is reapplied.
>
> I have one of these units permanently attached to the batteries in my
> motorhome. According to the E-meter they still have practically the
> same capacity as new even though they're about 3 years old.
>
> As time allows I'm going to build one from the plans available on the
> net and adapt it to my 72 volt Citi and see how it works there. I
> want to see if a pack level device will work as well as a battery
> level one.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 11 May 2005 21:13:29 -0600, Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>This cruise control thread has had my attention.
...
>I'm not exactly sure how often I would use it. Who uses cruise around
>town? :)
ME!! Even with the factory "push to set" type, I use it at every
opportunity. Being able to relax my right leg makes the drive much
more comfortable.
Many moons ago I took an old Bendix (now Rostra) analog cruise control
servo, gutted the electronics and designed a new board. This board
used a setpoint knob instead of "push to set". If I set the knob to
30 mph, that's the speed the car runs at. There is an "activate" and
an "off" button plus the original brake pedal logic still works as
designed.
I mounted the speed pot near the arm rest so that I could comfortably
lay my arm there and my fingers lay on the knob. With an auto
transmission I used this as my hand throttle. Even in city traffic,
one could easily "ride the gain" to maintain separation from the car
ahead. Much more comfortable than doing it with the foot throttle.
Only in true stop-and-go traffic do I resort to the foot throttle.
The advantage of doing this with a cruise control is that the speed
feedback loop maintains the set speed all the way up to wide open
throttle. Set it and forget it. When I come upon traffic, I just
back off the knob a little. Turn it up to pass.
I've been meaning to redo this thing with a PIC processor but the
round tuits have been in short supply lately.
A homemade controller would be very easy to interface directly to the
throttle input of an EV controller. For controllers that will accept
a voltage input, simply have the cruise output a properly scaled
voltage. For controllers limited to pot input, either a linear
optoisolator or even a servo pot like some home stereos use would do
the trick.
The Rostra Ultra II would be particularly easy in this regard. The
control board outputs a bipolar DC signal to drive a little brushed
motor that tugs the throttle cable. A stereo servo pot would be a
direct replacement. One channel of the stereo pot to the EV
controller and the other channel for servo position feedback to the
cruise control board.
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 11 May 2005 21:39:49 -0700, "David Chapman"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>John,
>Could you share the URL for the pulse charger plans that you mention you are
>thinking about building? Thanks David Chapman.
Sure.
http://www.shaka.com/~kalepa/desulf.htm
Lots of good links from that site too.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Pohorsky
To: Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: Fw: [electric_vehicles_for_sale] Re: Comments about GE
ecomaignation letter
Hi Lawrence,
These are my comments (below).
I thought that they would come out on the Electric Vehicles for Sale Yahoo
group but it looks like that didn't happen either.
I did get a challenge response from your ISP Earthlink. I clicked on the
link to validate my email address and I got an error message. Looks like
you got my email anyway.
Adios,
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Pohorsky
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: SFEVA
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [electric_vehicles_for_sale] Re: Comments about GE
ecomaignation letter
Howdy,
My company was recently purchased by GE, so I am now technically a GE
employee although I don't feel like one yet. We were shown a video recently
featuring Jeff Immelt and there was a short segment at the end kicking off
this Ecomagination initiative. In addition to the nuclear power option they
also showed footage of some new GE wind turbines, so they are somewhat
"green" in that respect.
As someone mentioned in another reply on this subject, GE does make some
very good motors (I have one in my 1986 Solar Electric Escort - no solar
panels though). GE also used to make a motor controller with the ironic
model number EV-1. So the jury is still out on this although GE's ties are
to the power utilities, not the oil companies.
Regardless, GE is focused on "protecting their image" and making money more
than anything else. If they can make money and look good by providing
"green power", that's the main thing that will take this idea forward. If
they can be convinced that wind power will be more profitable and popular
with the public than nuclear power, then that's what will happen. GE is
very sensitive to public opinion, so that is where we have some leverage.
The EAA can be of some help here, although as a 501c non-profit organization
there are some limits on what can be done.
Adios,
Jerry Pohorsky
Silicon Valley EAA chapter president
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Rhodes
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; SFEVA
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 1:28 AM
Subject: [electric_vehicles_for_sale] Re: Comments about GE ecomaignation
letter
General Electric Chairman and CEO Jeff Immelt today announced
"ecomagination," an aggressive GE initiative to bring to market new clean
energy technologies.
However in the same speech he mentions Nuclear Power as an option. Eco
never falls close to that technology. I think green only means money to
these guys. However that is the American way. I want to avoid politics
here but we need to convince these people they can make good clean money
from wind comboed with battery electric vehicles.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good news... They are getting much fuller now. The indicators are good.
Yes, you need to do more equalization. Charge as normal and then set your
end voltage up about 20 volts (one full turn on the voltage set pot) and set
the current for about 2 to 4% of the ampere hour capacity of the battery.
This would be about 4 to 8 amps for a 200 ampere hour battery. Measure the
voltage about every 15 minutes and stop charging when the voltage stops
rising. It might be several hours. If you measure every battery every 15
minutes, you will spend a lot of time doing this but you will understand
what batteries needed the equalization and which ones are the first to get
done.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: An update regarding my JeepEV
>
> Awaiting thoughts/comments and hoping I'm right to interpret what I've
> seen in the past few days as good news that my batteries are becoming
> healthier.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
40 C or 104 F
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 8:30 PM
Subject: Max temp during charge
> Quick question: Over the winter I have had the battery sensors set to
> fault the Magnecharger if any one of 10 sensors (attached to the copper
> battery straps) went above 30 degrees C.
>
> Well, it's a bit warmer here (15c) and after a hard drive the pack is
> now at 30 degrees C. I've ramped down the current, but what should be a
> safe max temp at the posts for AGM type batteries under charge?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 10, 2005, at 1:34 PM, mike golub wrote:
Is there any cruise control on EV's?
as most of the controllers are controlled by a 5k pot so its easy ( but is
it safe?)to hook up a relay and have a variable resistor on the dash, I had
one in my 2nd conversion , . It wouldn't hold the speed stead up and down
hills , but I don't think you really want that as it would eat up the juice.
I think I did get better mileage using it , and with a old Curtis controller
I used it to back up with out having my head thrown through the windshield
( ahh the good old days .... Many times I think about this when doing a
nice controlled back up with my zilla , ) .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The highest power lithium currently available that I'm aware of are
the EnerDel's at around 3kw/kg. They lose some of that power when
not fully charged. http://www.enerdel.com/p_detail.html
You can buy them now, but they aren't cheap.
Looks like some damn good cells, at least on the spec sheets.
What sort of prices?
With an order above
10,000 units, pricing becomes more reasonable. Let me know if
anyone else wants them.... Of course, you still need to stack and
pack them, and while the company makes higher voltage packs, they're
all extremely current limited :(
Likely the current limitations come from the BMS, not the cells
themselves. Not a difficult fix.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
May 11, 2005
Mitsubishi Goes Electric: New EVs in 2010
Mitsubishi Motors announced that it will begin selling electric cars in
Japan in 2010.
Mitsubishi will build its EVs with in-wheel motors and lithium-ion
batteries, both of which the company has been working on for several years.
Mitsubishi forsees using the Mitsubishi In-wheel motor Electric Vehicle
(MIEV) concept in hybrids and fuel cell vehicles as well.
Mitsubishi Motors has already built several test vehicles using lithium-ion
battery systems, including the Mitsubishi HEV in 1996, the FTO-EV in 1998
and the Eclipse EV in 2000. The FTO-EV set a multiple-charge 24-hour
distance world record on a proving ground, while the Eclipse EV covered over
400 km on public roads on a single battery charge.
The company currently is using a modified Colt as its EV testbed. After
removing the combustion engine, fuel tank and transmission, Mitsubishi
fitted two 20 kW in-wheel motors with 600 Nm (443 lb-ft) torque each to the
rear wheels.
A floor-mounted lithium-ion battery powers the motors. The car has a top
speed of 150 km/h (93 mph) and a cruising range of 150 km (93 miles) on a
single charge.
Mitsubishi currently has its test Colt EV on the proving ground.
The car will undergo a tuning program with independent control of drive
torque and braking force for left and right wheels to improve dynamic
performance. After receiving vehicle type certification, Colt EV will
undergo verification testing on public roads.
Mitsubishi will use on-road testing to identify and resolve any problems
unique to the in-wheel motor vehicle, including any deterioration in road
holding and ride comfort due to increases in un-sprung weight, as well as
reliability and durability issues in the in-wheel motor system and its
peripheral components (suspension, wheels, tires).
The company is also currently developing a more powerful a 50 kW in-wheel
motor for 4WD vehicle use that will eventually feature individual drive
torque and braking force control for each wheel.
Mitsubishi will displaying the Colt EV at the 2005 Automotive Engineering
Exposition to be held in Yokohama from May 18 through May 20.
This is a welcome development. For Mitsubishi, which has been dogged by
quality problems, fault cover-ups and low sales, this offers a way to
re-establish itself as a technology and market leader. (Opportunity is one
thing, the ability to execute is another. We'll have to see how things
develop.)
But more broadly, a mainstream automaker is re-inserting the EV into the
dialog of the market at a time when other automakers are crushing (or trying
to crush) their older EVs.
It's unfortunate that the release date is five years away, and that
Mitsubishi currently has no plans to offer the EVs outside of Japan. But
introduction dates can be advanced, and sales plans can expand, based on
customer demand.
It will be interesting to see if any of the other automakers pick up the
challenge.
(A tip of the hat to Joe!)
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
T> I have room for the larger diameter because I am not placing a battery
over
the motor as is often done in Civics.
its the lenth I'm thinking about , Net gain is comming out with a shorter 9
" that will be inbetween a 8 and a 9 , but if you can get it in there fine .
Only 13 batteries. I may regret that someday. True, I did buy the 156V
max
Zilla, so I will be limited. There may be a good used Z1K available
someday.
I believe you can have it up graded , without spending a lot of money ,
maybe just shipping , just ask :-)
are you going to be driving 25 miles often?
Steve Clunn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 8:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: My project and question
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
'92 Honda VX Hatchback, 5spd stock trans.
WarP 9" motor
can you get a 9 in there , in a light car the 8 would do just fine , look
at
Rich's goldie .
Optima Batts. 13ea. of the larger #31's=156V
Zilla Z1K controller w/ large venturis and hi-volume acc. pumps ;-)
as your going with 13 batteries , you are getting the low voltage
controller
, I'd get the 300v volt one , its not that much more but you can put more
batteries in the car ,
Well, maybe it won't be *that* fast, but I expect it to be a little
sportier
than my GEM Utility NEV.
How times have changed , I remember getting my first zapi 600 amp
controller , " we got power now " , :-)
I decided to build a sporty car, even at the expense of RANGE. Ask me
in
a
year if I am still satisfied with 25 miles.
I went from 20 to 25 golf cart batteries in my work truck and it opened up
allot more driving for me , I would really think about trying to get more
batteries in there.
Here is my question -
ACTIVE BATTERY BOX VENTILATION ?? I would like to SKIP that. Who of you
believes that I can safely do that? Who thinks I should increase my life
insurance payoff?
On a few of my EV's with golf cart batteries I could smell the batteries
when I'd get into the car , and drive with the windows open to air things
out, but I have never smelled anything with the Orbitals ( agm's) ,
Yes, these are sealed AGM's and they will be charged carefully (barring
equipment failures or adjustment error). Hydrogen accumulation in
(sealed?) battery boxes should not be a problem, right?
I am hoping that this subject is interesting to some of you on the list.
I
value your opinions.
Respectfully,
Richard Rau
2001 GEM short-bed
2003 Giant LA Free bicycle w/NiMH batts.
Co-founder of BikeE Corp.
Honda Civic 3dr. (est. completion in fall 2005)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #29: Team Profile: Methacton High School, "The Lorax"
Press Release provided by Methacton High School Electric Car Club
Club Sponsor: Mr. Savitz
Educating the public on alternatively powered vehicles has been forefront
purpose of the Methacton High School's Electric Car Club. The club began with
the generous donation of the vehicle itself by John Murphy, who also has been
grateful in contributing his time, efforts and invaluable knowledge. Also, the
members would like to thank Mr. Savitz, the club sponsor for all his hard work
and time.
The car classifies under the ``battery electric'' division, and has won the
grand award for ``most efficient light duty vehicle'' at last year's Tour de
Sol. To live up to its title this year, the club has made several vital
additions. These include the construction of the roll bar, which adds to the
safety of the vehicle, and the installment of another battery which adds to the
car's power and potential. The car now has seventeen twelve volt batteries,
three wheel chassis, a Solectria controller, and an 50 hp AC motor. The car is
five times as efficient as the gasoline-powered car in your driveway, achieving
136 MPGe. Next year, the club hopes to add a photo-voltaic roof to increase
the vehicle's energy potential.
The roadblocks this year have been several technical difficulties including,
mainly the failure of a 12 volt battery that powered the electronic controller
for the motor, just weeks before the race. The problem was solved by
recharging the 12 volt battery, replacing the fuses connecting the 12 volt
battery to the controller, as well as replacing the photovoltaic cell to
recharge the 12 volt battery on a continuous basis.
To achieve our goal of greater community awareness the club has been published
in newspapers, participates in the Tour de Sol yearly, and goes out directly to
the community. The students turn many heads when they drive the three-wheeled
car around the neighborhood. Students take a great amount of time to explain
to the public how the vehicle operates and how it might change the future of
transportation by using alternative energy to decrease our dependence on oil.
Although mechanical engineering may not be in the future for some of the
students, they nonetheless put in great energy to keep improving the car, and
learn from the experience of working with a renewable energy vehicle.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
