EV Digest 4360
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: BC-20 Question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: PFC's and NiMH....
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Motor horsepower estimations and questions - some comments
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Hypothetical charger question (settings)
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: EV Transmissions
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Cheap DC-DC
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV Transmissions
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV Transmissions
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Motor horsepower estimations and questions - some comments
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV Transmissions
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) continuously variable transmission
by tom koehler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV Transmissions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Where can I get this motor?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Cheap DC-DC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Vicor DC-DC VI-N(B)52-EM (from Halted)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: continuously variable transmission
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Vicor DC-DC VI-N(B)52-EM (from Halted)
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Little LiIon cells again
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV Transmissions
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Inexpensive DC/DC converters
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) 6 volt starting batteries
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: PFC50 for sale
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Cheap DC-DC
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: PFC50 for sale
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: PFC50 for sale
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You can fool the charger to cut back at a higher voltage but the current
falls off very quickly as the voltage rises. You need the transformer to get
full current at the higher voltage.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 7:07 PM
Subject: BC-20 Question
> I bought an old BC-20 charger to play around with. Without the LB-20
> transformer, the BC-20 is rated for a 108V battery pack, max. In reading
> the documentation, though, I noticed that the unit had built-in
temperature
> compensation. If the temperature is cold enough, the KB-20 will charge to
> 2.8V per cell. So for a 108V system, that would be: 54 * 2.8 = 151.2V.
As
> we've been discussing with the water heater idea, my pack needs only
around
> 148.75V.
>
> So, I was wondering if it would work to fool the BC-20 into thinking that
> the temperature is -30C. And if so, is there anyone on the list familiar
> enough with a BC-20 to tell me how to do it? If it were possible, then I
> wouldn't need to LB-20, saving weight in the EV.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The problem is that you will need an neutral wire that is four gauge sizes
larger than the hot wires to keep the heat the same in all the wires. This
bridging technique can overheat the undersized neutral wire and burn the
building down. Most 240 VAC wiring has UNDERSIZED neutrals and is very prone
to this danger when used in this manner. I concur with Lee that using a 120
VAC circuit is much better and safer.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
> Philip Marino wrote:
> > If you really need only 150V DC maximum, you may be able to use
> > a different configuration (similar to a full-wave center-tap
> > supply) where you only use two discrete diodes. One diode is
> > connected to each side of the 220 line. The other ends of the
> > diodes (same polarities) are connected to each other. The battery
> > goes between the junction of these two diodes and the neutral
> > power conductor.
>
> This works, but draws halfwave DC current pulses on each half of the
> 220v line. In general, this is a bad idea. The power factor is poor,
> efficiency is lower, and any transformers supplying these two half-wave
> phases will run hotter and have less power capability.
>
> If this is what you want, it is better to just connect a bridge
> rectifier to single phase 120vac. Then the AC line current is
> symmetrical, its power factor is better, so efficiency is better and
> transformers won't overheat.
>
> --
> *BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
> -- Mahatma Ghandi
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can connect all the optocouplers to the PFC-20/30/50 Regbus port in
parallel.
Pin 1 is +5 volts. Pin 2 is the shutdown line. When you turn on an
optocoupler, the charger current goes to zero. Turn off all the optocouplers
and the current goes up to the setting of the knob.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 6:16 AM
Subject: PFC's and NiMH....
> Ok, as some people know I bought a pile of Panasonic Prismatic batteries
> to take a look at the Prismatic cells and see if they can be used as a
> traction pack. Yes it's insane in a way, but since there is no other
> NiMH batteries on the market that's what we're stuck with.
>
> So far the batteries are very nice. 6 cells to a battery, 7.2 volts each
> nominal, 6.5ah capacity. They can handle high current loads (30-60amps)
> without falling apart. Which makes sense; they were designed for that.
>
> The key of course is charging: How do you monitor charge to make sure
> that they don't blow up. Especially given that NiMH need dv/dt, delta V,
> time limits, two stage+trickle charging, and all that sort of stuff.
>
> Currently I'm working with the TI BQ400 series chipsets to handle this.
> Nice chip; it can monitor cell temp, voltage, deltas, time, and has a
> timer circuit that can be set as a deadman control. And I do all that
> right now (including temp sensors for the delta T detection) Output is
> currently gated to a small MOSFET based switcher charger with a limit of
> 3amps. Even has a little frob to allow an external load to be applied
> for a discharge/charge circuit.
>
> Problem is the current charger can only handle 3 amps. What I would
> really like is a constant current charger that can be gated by this
> chipset to charge the batteries at something more like 6-20 amps. And if
> I go with a string of batteries I will need something that can handle in
> the 400 volt range*
>
> Any thoughts on intermediate sized chargers that can be controlled by an
> external controller?
>
> Chris
>
> *For a pack larger than 36 volts one solution would be to use a DQ every
> 36 volts to monitor the local battery region, then signal a Basic STAMP
> via optoisolators. THe STAMP can then monitor all the batteries, and
> signal the charger to switch modes based on the results of any/all of
> the DQ400's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Joe Smalley wrote:
> > It was designed for a 360 Volt PACK.
> > The design called for going up to 450 Volts.
> > Some chargers were shipped capable of going to 525 Volts.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <
But the Zilla allows the user to set a max motor voltage
limit, unlike DCP controllers or the Curtis. I've heard
bringing an ADC motor above 160 volts or so with 1,000 amps
or more going through it is a BIG no no. The WarP 9'' is
rated at 192V, and I'm uncertain whether is would be wise to
go higher than that, hence my selected limit of 192V. If it
could handle, say, 240V with 1,000 amps going through it,
I'd be making a huge amount of power for an EV, almost near
the level of California Poppy.
I think one of the properties of a series motor your missing . If you have
a set rpm that you can't exceed and a set amperage then this will set you
voltage at the motor , If you rise the voltage then ether rpm goes up or
amperage goes up . but you can't raise the voltage and hold the amperage the
same without rpm going up . I would think there would be a rpm number that
would go with 192v and 1000 amps . and also a torque , . This is just stuff
I've seen while driving , so I could be wrong. along these lines putting
even 72v in with out a load will excead the safe rpm even though the amps
will be low, so a motor that can take 192v 1000 amps but not 192v 300 amps ,
as this would demand very hi rpm.
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stu and Jan
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 7:10 AM
To: EV LIST
Subject: Hypothetical charger question
Assume the following:
Four adjustable 2 AMP switching power supplies 40 to 60 VDC.
Diode output on each supply for isolation.
Four 12V 33 AH SLA batteries.
Is it possible to use the four supplies (adjusted individually) in a 'set it
and forget it' mode?
If so, what should the settings be?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gear vendors http://www.gearvendors.com/index.html have a purpose built 2
speed EV gearbox. They do not have any detailed information on their web
site, and I am awaiting a request for information from them. Supposedly it
is 2 speed, straight cut, electronically switched with no clutch required.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: May 14, 2005 9:58 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: EV Transmissions
I was just wondering...
Has anyone tried finding a planetary or (umm, whatever the configuration of
the gears in a differential is) transmission that could be used in an EV?
We really don't need a lot of speed choices.
A differential type transmission with 2 band brakes, and 2 clutches could
give 1:1, 2:1, and -1:1 choices - which look like a pretty good set of
choices for an EV.
It seems like there must be SOMETHING out there with this kind of
transmission, used in the power range we need.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just an idea on Cheap DC-DC's There are newer PC power supplies that
have controlled shut down and large quite 7" fans and high efficency.
Something like the Antec NeoPower I have in this machine; Ok not that
cheap, but if the pack is 120 or 240 could these be modified to get past
the input transformer and run on DC and be tweaked up to 13.8 volts.
Looking only at the 12V power outputs it has 2 individualy regulated 12V
outputs at 18 amps and 15amps +/- 3% regulation with .4Amp minimum draw
each. We can get a max of 396 out of the 480Watt rating out the pair of
12V lines.
it claims universal auto switching 100 to 240V ac input, PFC corrected,
I wonder if it even has an input transformer, maybe it will run directly
on DC
my favorite statement on the box "Accurate power ratings allows neopower
to deliver its full rated power, 24 hours a day"
Mostly vent, it would definitely have to be located somewhere out of the
weather, but It could be used to warm the batteries or the cabin :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about 2 speed rear ends?
RPO# FA1 FA2 GM rear axels from 1.5 and 2 ton trucks
http://www.gearvendors.com/agmh4s.html pricey
Of course there is lenco
http://www.lencoracing.com/stinfomas.html
http://www.lencoracing.com/
My thought is that perhaps with the rarity of shifting in an EV the
constant losses in planatary gear sets is not desireable
1-2% per straight cut involute gear mesh
2-8% on bevel cut
6 to 8 meshes in planatery set, 1 mesh in standard gearbox The trade off
is low inertia, no clutch, shift under load, small size for power. Once
locked into 1:1 no more loss.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:33 AM 5/15/2005, Jeff Shanab wrote:
What about 2 speed rear ends?
RPO# FA1 FA2 GM rear axels from 1.5 and 2 ton trucks
Also HEAVY.
http://www.gearvendors.com/agmh4s.html pricey
Also meant for trucks, so is overkill for a small EV car.
Of course there is lenco
http://www.lencoracing.com/stinfomas.html
http://www.lencoracing.com/
I note that no prices are listed, so that means they aren't for
sale. Since they are also meant for racing, it's again overkill for a
small EV.
My thought is that perhaps with the rarity of shifting in an EV the
constant losses in planatary gear sets is not desireable
1-2% per straight cut involute gear mesh
2-8% on bevel cut
6 to 8 meshes in planatery set, 1 mesh in standard gearbox The trade off
is low inertia, no clutch, shift under load, small size for power. Once
locked into 1:1 no more loss.
Frankly, this sounds exactly like something you would LIKE in an EV.
Your cruising speed is the lossless mode.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The higher efficiency of
>the larger motor more
>than made up for the extra weight. You may also find
>that the larger motor
>is a better choice in your case, for the same reason.
I'm keeping weight in mind not for efficiency, but mostly
for handling and not going too far over GVWR. This car is
1,793 pounds stock, and can be stripped down to about an
1,150-1,200 pound glider. The engine alone is just over 400
pounds, not counting its accessories. I have to fit as large
a battery pack as possible to get about 40% of total weight
in batteries, and GVWR is 2,350 pounds.
One advantage of using a higher efficiency motor is that you need fewer
batteries to get the same power and range. For instance, a 10% gain in
motor efficiency ( that was the difference, in my case, between the two
different size ADC motors) would mean that you can use a 10% smaller ( and
lighter) battery pack, and deliver the same power ( and energy) to the drive
wheels. The overall vehicle weight would be less.
Even a 5% difference in efficiency would mean one less battery ( in your
case) for about the same performance and range. That would more than make up
for the extra weight of the larger motor. It would also mean less energy
(watt-hours) used per mile driven and less cost of electricity to recharge.
And, for a given charger power, less time to recharge. And, less cost when
it comes time to replace the pack.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Their gears are so expensive... I also talked with someone who has one and he
said that it was just a very high end transfer box that was made for 2x rear
end applications, not 4x4.
So I was looking into getting a 4x4 transfer box with an electrical shifter.
The transfer box would have a hi/low gear in it which would have to be changed
out to get a good gear ratio. The connections to the transfer box would be
directly connected to the rear end differential. Again the final gearing would
have to be figured out, I was told that a good motor to final gear ratio is
6:1. It wouldn't be hard to figure out, you would just need to find the
transfer box which would take the gears and also fit the geometry of the rear
end.
Then I decided for a first conversion I would do better to keep it simple.
Rush
> Gear vendors http://www.gearvendors.com/index.html have a purpose built 2
> speed EV gearbox. They do not have any detailed information on their web
> site, and I am awaiting a request for information from them. Supposedly it
> is 2 speed, straight cut, electronically switched with no clutch required.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First, to the members of this list, I want to thank you for your
responses to my introduction. Your responses, both 0ff-list and on, are
helpful to me and I appreciate them all.
Second, in my searches for information I have bumped up against some
information on Continuously Variable Transmissions. The most commonly
encountered ones in my area would be the belt and variable pulley
arrangements used on snowmobiles. Well, those would not be suitable for
EVs, and I'm not going there. I have seen some info on hydrostatic
units used in some automotive and industrial applications and they
look very promising. Has there been much discussion among EVers here,
on the topic of CVTs?
tom koehler in two harbors minnesota
I will find a way, or make one.
(attributed to Hannibal, crossing the Alps
with his elephants in the Second Punic War,
22 centuries ago)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> Has anyone tried finding a planetary or (umm, whatever the
> configuration of the gears in a differential is) transmission
> that could be used in an EV?
Automatic transmissions are almost always planetaries. The old GM
2-speed Powerglide automatic transmission should be all it takes. These
are pretty simple and strong (used for racing). The losses are mainly in
the torque converter, which isn't needed in an EV.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone recognize the shunt motor in this kit:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4550409454 - I
think it would be better than the original motor in my Kewet to use with a
SepEx controller, but the seller has not responded to questions about buying
just the motor, one email through eBay, another directly. Any source to buy
one?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Just an idea on Cheap DC-DC's There are newer PC power supplies that
> have controlled shut down and large quite 7" fans and high efficency.
The PC power supplies I have tested are NOT high efficiency -- on the
contrary, they have optimized everything to be cheap, no matter what it
does to efficiency. 75-80% is typical. As a point of comparison, Vicors
and industrial-grade Lambdas are more like 85-90% efficient.
Another problem is that PC power supplies sold in the US have bad power
factors -- around 0.7. This means they draw excessive AC current for the
power they deliver. You can't plug more than a few of them into a 15amp
120vac circuit without tripping the breaker.
Finally, their power ratings are mostly marketing fantasy. If you
actually try to load them to the advertised ratings, they will quickly
overheat and soon fail.
There are other problems as well. 12v isn't enough to charge a 12v
battery; you need more like 15v. They usually regulate only the highest
current output; the rest are left to wander. If asked to charge a deeply
discharged battery, they usually shut themselves off and you have to
remove AC power and re-apply it to get them to restart.
There are no doubt exceptions to the above, for premium quality PC
supplies. But that's not what you'll find in a typical PC!
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Myles Twete wrote:
> Anyone got inside information on the detailed differences between
> Vicor Booster and Driver modules? I've got a boatload of 48v 150w
> modules, but they're all drivers. I want to make the drivers act
> as boosters, i.e. receive var. freq. pulses from adjacent driver
> or booster as command, then pass on var. freq. pulses to next
> booster. I confirmed that the drivers will accept, use and pass
> on the freq. pulses correctly, but whenever the pseudo-booster
> kicks in, it screams loudly.
All Vicor driver modules can be used as boosters. That's what the "Gate
In" and "Gate Out" pins are for. Connect them as show in the Vicor data
sheets.
You only need to trim the one Driver to set the output voltage for all
of them. If you try to separately trim each "booster" driver, you might
get the sort of instabilitiy (noise) you are describing.
Have you checked with Vicor's application engineer? Perhaps the
particular modules you have are "specials" or somehow different?
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee, you mention that I don't need a filter after the bridge. Will the TS
cells be able to handle the 60Hz pulses that occur?
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
>
> Lee, you mention that I don't need a filter after the bridge. Will the TS
> cells be able to handle the 60Hz pulses that occur?
I don't know about the ThunderSkys. Flooded lead-acids or nicads
wouldn't care.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
tom koehler wrote:
> I have bumped up against some information on Continuously Variable
> Transmissions. The most commonly encountered ones in my area would
> be the belt and variable pulley arrangements used on snowmobiles.
> Well, those would not be suitable for EVs, and I'm not going there.
Actually, they *have* been used in automobiles. The Dutch DAF cars used
them, as did the Freeway ICE and EV built right here in Minnesota. One
of the McKee Sundancer EV designs used them; it got exceptionally good
performance and range.
While the belt itself is rather inefficient, it can make up for this by
allowing a higher-efficiency motor and controller if properly done. For
instance, you could use a Lemco/Lynch/Etek type motor which is 10% more
efficient than the usual DC series motor, and eliminate the controller
completely (just run the motor directly from the batteries, and get your
speed change with the CVT).
> I have seen some info on hydrostatic units used in some automotive
> and industrial applications and they look very promising.
Yes, they do! Hydraulic wheel motors are easy to get, and come in
arbitrarily large sizes (they are used on gigantic earthmoving
equipment, for example). Variable displacement pumps to drive them are
also quite common.
Efficiency is lower, but usually because it is not a design criteria.
Careful choice of parts can get you in the 80% range (motor to wheels).
Again, you can make further gains in the motor and controller to
compensate for the lower hydraulic efficiency.
The key in any discussion of this type is that the overall system
efficiency is the product of the efficiencies of the batteries,
controller, motor, and drive train. For a typical EV with lead-acid
batteries, PWM controller, series DC motor, and gear transmission, your
overall efficiency is
battery controller motor drive train overall
0.9 x 0.95 x 0.8 x 0.95 = .649 or 65%
If you go to an 80% efficient CVT with a belt or hydraulics, efficiency
falls to
0.9 x 0.95 x 0.8 x 0.8 = .547 or 55%
But if you use the continuously variable speed capabilities of the
controller to eliminate the losses in the controller and use a
constant-speed PM DC motor, efficiency is essentially the same as the
conventional approach
0.9 x 0.99 x 0.9 x 0.8 = .641 or 64%
It's worth noting that you can get your speed control at least four
different ways; with the batteries (series/parallel switching), with the
controller (PWM control), with the motor (field control), or with the
transmission (gearbox or CVT). Any way you do it causes some efficiency
loss. But the worst situation (efficiency wise) is probably to do speed
control is several stages; having a PWM *and* a transmission is less
efficient than just one or the other. That's why most purpose-built EVs
have NO transmission at all; they use the controller or battery
switching to do all their speed control.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart offered:
> All Vicor driver modules can be used as boosters. That's what
> the "Gate In" and "Gate Out" pins are for. Connect them as show in the
> Vicor data sheets.
Yeah...and it works...but with sense lines left disconnected (as with
booster modules), she still screams like a banshee.
2nd generation Vicor modules don't distinguish between driver and booster.
Only the 1st gen.
Have you actually tried a 1st gen driver module as a booster as you describe
Lee?
I'd be happy to know.
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
Do you have any input on this question? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 12:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
Bill Dennis wrote:
>
> Lee, you mention that I don't need a filter after the bridge. Will the TS
> cells be able to handle the 60Hz pulses that occur?
I don't know about the ThunderSkys. Flooded lead-acids or nicads
wouldn't care.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess 3,000 of them would give you 111 volts and
120Ah at about 300#.
I wonder how long it would take to connect them?
--- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't know if anyone wants to experiment some more
> (I remember somebody
> was...), but Electronic Goldmine has some 1.2AH,
> 3.7v cells for 99c each,
> part # G14948.
> I don't know how useful they are since they don't
> have solder tabs.
> http://www.goldmine-elec.com
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
Discover Yahoo!
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--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 15 May 2005 05:37:55 -0700, "Don Cameron"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Gear vendors http://www.gearvendors.com/index.html have a purpose built 2
>speed EV gearbox. They do not have any detailed information on their web
>site, and I am awaiting a request for information from them. Supposedly it
>is 2 speed, straight cut, electronically switched with no clutch required.
Here's a cutaway photo of their RV/hotrod overdrive box. Same
internals, different packaging I'd imagine, for an EV box. A single
planetary pack in a compact housing. Slick and reliable unit, though
quite pricy.
http://www.johngsbbq.com/Neon_John_site/RV/Trips/Daytona_Turkey_Run_2001/slides/DCP_3429.html
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How much does this unit cost?
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2005 06:56:40 -0700, "Chris Brune"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Hi John,
> >The datasheet for the SD350 family indicates that
> it come in one of 3 input
> >voltage variants:
> >B: 19-36, C: 36-72, D: 72-144. Each of these
> three input ranges covering
> >the 2:1 input range they quote.
> >If you have a 72V system you might expect that your
> actual battery pack
> >voltage would vary from around 60 volts to about
> 90V.
> >Thus I don't see where one of the specified input
> ranges would cover your
> >needs.
>
> I discussed this with an application engineer. The
> voltage range is
> nominal. If the absolute voltage rating is exceeded
> the unit shuts
> down to protect the FETs, according to him. This is
> expected
> behavior, I think, since it's hard to imagine a high
> voltage DC/DC
> application NOT involving some sort of battery
> system. Since I plan
> to interlock the control system with the charger so
> that none of the
> controls are energized during charging, that problem
> will be solved
> anyway.
>
> >I would also comment that you need to be careful
> about these types of power
> >supplies. They aren't designed to be mounted on a
> vehicle. They won't be
> >protected against water intrusion.
>
> Mine goes in the passenger compartment so that's not
> an issue.
>
> >If you leave your converter connected
> >all the time does the fan run all the time?
>
> I forgot to ask the apps guy but I bet that it has a
> smart fan that
> only runs when necessary. Heck, even my cheapie $29
> inverters have
> that feature. This converter will not be energized
> during charging so
> that's not a problem anyway.
>
> With my Citi I can take a bit different approach for
> accessory power
> than for larger and more accessorized cars. The
> total electrical load
> is <300 watts. The converter can supply all the
> loads. The 17ah
> Hawker Genesis battery that I use for accessories is
> just for surges.
> It should remain charged most all the time. If not
> then there is a
> small smart charger already installed to keep the
> accessory battery
> topped off. I'm currently running a Group 24 wet
> deep cycle battery
> sitting in the floorboard until I get the converter
> installed. The
> small charger gets the job done with that battery so
> it should work
> well with the other.
>
> In my design the pack is completely insolated (DP
> contactor) during
> charging. I don't want to have to worry about
> voltage excursions,
> line conducted transients and other rot affecting
> any of the
> electronics while the charger is connected.
>
> >
> >There are companies out there that make converters
> designed for 72V on
> >vehicle operation.
>
> Yeah, I know but IMHO, they are grossly overpriced.
> Seems like EV
> parts are like medical parts. Throw on the "EV"
> label and the price
> explodes. Oh I know the usual arguments about low
> volume,
> yadayadayada, but that's not for me.
>
> First off, I'm an engineer and as such, the journey
> is half the fun.
> What fun is there in just bolting on purpose-made
> parts? Adapting
> parts to the application is part of the fun.
>
> Second, I'm a cheap b*stard. I learned years ago
> that if I pay a LOT
> of attention on the buying end then I don't have to
> work so hard on
> the earning end to get the things I want.
>
> Anyway, we'll see how this unit works when I get it.
> If the blue
> smoke leaks out, well not that much lost.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone had experience using two 6-volt batteries
as a 12 volt starting battery?
I was looking at the 6volt optima, but it cost just as
much as 12 volt one.
http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/americas0/en/config/product_info/automotive/starter/spec_sheets.RowPar.0001.ContentPar.0001.ColumnPar.0009.File.tmp/6V_082304.pdf
Perhaps, there are some cheaper ones out there?
I have a 86 ford escort diesel, and I want the
starting battery in the engine compartment.
In other news, I removed some of the rusted bed of a
1986 toyota pickup, and straped the rear lights to the
bumper. I have moved it to a storage location. So I
guess I can order the adpater plate from electro.
Later
Michael Golub
Fairbanks, AK
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK list I know what charger that is.
It's a good one, or it WAS a good one when it left here.
I am rather surprised that the owner has not contacted me directly. Since
most folks that Buy 50s treat them like priceless familly treasures
Here is the Scoupe... I doubt that there is more than $1000 bucks worth of
damage. lacking the top cover and having large wires hanging out the side...
This could be a
Rats nest of troubles. But.....There is a a possibility that Buying this off
of Ebay for $1000 and handing me $1000, and this could land a $3000 charger
back into Said cutomers hands.
So......There is a pretty good potential for some gain here.
It's worth me bidding $500 on it, Because I can Reburb it and sell it as a
"Fire sale " charger. With of course a LOT better chance of getting it
running than most.
I have noted that there are NO Bids on it yet.......
So... I don't want to mess with a bidding war, and I expect that who ever
buys it will be on the phone with me in about 400 Nanoseconds after the sale
goes through...
Once in hand, and with a Good DVM with a solid diode checker, and I can
tell you about how much carnage and cost it's going to take to get it back
on line.
Folks there's a lot of good charger there... and I CAN fix it, pretty much
no matter what the problems.
One way or another I hope to see it here in about 2 weeks. Got parts...
I have 4 PFC50s on the order list right now... So this is a rather
popular charger this spring.
The Sales date for PFC50-18BH was 9-22-03. It went to California... The rest
I will keep off the list.
Rich Rudman
Manzantia Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "prime" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: RE: PFC50 for sale
> I am very much interested in the PFC50 on ebay. I have 2 early 90's G
vans
> that need a charger. The configuration is 216v nominal and 30 amps would
> probably do. Before I get into a bidding war :>} with someone else on the
> list. I have an idea. Perhaps someone that wants the PFC50 or someone
else
> has a charger that will do what I want. If so it could save both of us
some
> $$$.
>
> Bill Sibner
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 15 May 2005 06:37:13 -0700, Jeff Shanab
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Just an idea on Cheap DC-DC's There are newer PC power supplies that
>have controlled shut down and large quite 7" fans and high efficency.
>Something like the Antec NeoPower I have in this machine; Ok not that
>cheap, but if the pack is 120 or 240 could these be modified to get past
>the input transformer and run on DC and be tweaked up to 13.8 volts.
>Looking only at the 12V power outputs it has 2 individualy regulated 12V
>outputs at 18 amps and 15amps +/- 3% regulation with .4Amp minimum draw
>each. We can get a max of 396 out of the 480Watt rating out the pair of
>12V lines.
>
>it claims universal auto switching 100 to 240V ac input, PFC corrected,
>I wonder if it even has an input transformer, maybe it will run directly
>on DC
That should work fine. Most switching power supply mfrs have gotten
rid of the logic power transformer long ago, as an expensive and not
needed part. The input power goes directly to a rectifier which will
work fine on DC.
I've used modified PC power supplies for a variety of purposes. A
couple of things to watch for. Most all actually regulate on the 5
volt output. The 12 volt output is along for the ride. Might want to
check to see if the 12 volt out is stable enough. Second item is that
some supplies are unstable without a 5 volt load. Third, it'll take
some poking around to figure out what resistors to change to jack the
output up to 14 volts, what you need for EV use.
I actually have a 400 watt supply laying on the bench waiting for a
round tuit. I'm reverse engineering the output stage with the idea of
rewinding the main transformer to only 12 volts and to move the
regulation to that output. It actually looks quite doable.
Give one a shot. The only thing you have to lose is some blue smoke
:-)
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I sent the guy an email. I will go look at the unit. I
think it would be a perfect charger to go with that
huge indramat drive system I'm getting for my truck. I
hope to have no gassers left in my fleet.
Gadget
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> OK list I know what charger that is.
> It's a good one, or it WAS a good one when it left
> here.
>
> I am rather surprised that the owner has not
> contacted me directly. Since
> most folks that Buy 50s treat them like priceless
> familly treasures
>
> Here is the Scoupe... I doubt that there is more
> than $1000 bucks worth of
> damage. lacking the top cover and having large wires
> hanging out the side...
> This could be a
> Rats nest of troubles. But.....There is a a
> possibility that Buying this off
> of Ebay for $1000 and handing me $1000, and this
> could land a $3000 charger
> back into Said cutomers hands.
>
> So......There is a pretty good potential for some
> gain here.
>
> It's worth me bidding $500 on it, Because I can
> Reburb it and sell it as a
> "Fire sale " charger. With of course a LOT better
> chance of getting it
> running than most.
>
> I have noted that there are NO Bids on it yet.......
>
> So... I don't want to mess with a bidding war, and I
> expect that who ever
> buys it will be on the phone with me in about 400
> Nanoseconds after the sale
> goes through...
> Once in hand, and with a Good DVM with a solid
> diode checker, and I can
> tell you about how much carnage and cost it's going
> to take to get it back
> on line.
>
>
> Folks there's a lot of good charger there... and I
> CAN fix it, pretty much
> no matter what the problems.
>
> One way or another I hope to see it here in about 2
> weeks. Got parts...
> I have 4 PFC50s on the order list right now...
> So this is a rather
> popular charger this spring.
>
> The Sales date for PFC50-18BH was 9-22-03. It went
> to California... The rest
> I will keep off the list.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzantia Micro
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "prime" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 8:50 AM
> Subject: RE: PFC50 for sale
>
>
> > I am very much interested in the PFC50 on ebay. I
> have 2 early 90's G
> vans
> > that need a charger. The configuration is 216v
> nominal and 30 amps would
> > probably do. Before I get into a bidding war :>}
> with someone else on the
>
> > list. I have an idea. Perhaps someone that wants
> the PFC50 or someone
> else
> > has a charger that will do what I want. If so it
> could save both of us
> some
> > $$$.
> >
> > Bill Sibner
> >
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod's list has always stated 360. And that is a NOMINAL voltage peak. Like
Otmar saying his Zillas go to only 248 volts, They in fact go to 427
volts....
All PFC chargers since just after the Beta Runs are tuned up to 450 volts,
unless the customer wants to have it set down for added over shoot saftey.
So... 450 is the limit, I have dialed one to 480, 525 was a peak for a short
while, but I turned it back down to 480, after a certain customer.....failed
the polarity reversal test with it.
So all but a very few will run to 450 VDC outputs. This is where the Red
Warn LED comes on and blinks and shuts off the charger. 450 volts is
awefully close to the 600 volt rated IGBT end of life.
Anybody wanting more than 450 VDC gets a ...Zero warrenty . It runs, if you
break it it's parts cost right off the bat! They get to share my risk.
Oh yea the new scope shows less than 50 volts of ring/ripple at 450 volts
and full current... So it does look like I have 100 volts of over head..
That's not much.
If PFC50 #18BH has the bonded fin heatsink, it is definatley a good
chassis! I am not sure where I upgraded to the Bonded fin, but I thought it
was at about #12.
Another data point is, I run all the chargers at 400 volts and max rated
current for many kilowatt hours of run time. The last PFC50B ran 13 Kwhrs at
400 volts, just for burn in testing. This is basicly a hour at full power.
Oh and I had a aparent eff of %97.15
I am not sure old #18 will get to these points.... but I bet I can get it
pretty close.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: PFC50 for sale
> Hm. Is 360 volts the peak for a PFC-50? Or can it go into the mid 400's?
>
> Chris
>
> Rod Hower wrote:
> > Ebay item #7974246964
> > I wonder who is selling this?
> > Starting bid of $1000
> >
>
--- End Message ---
