EV Digest 4366
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Anybody know EV history?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Anybody know EV history?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Cable crimping
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: AC Ampmeter?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) TdS Report #39: Monday Press Release - Modified Hybrid Vehicle Nears 100
MPG Barrier
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Anybody know EV history?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Calculating aero drag from torque?
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Simotion Inverters
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Toro Power-handle, half baked idea
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) RE: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) TdS Report #40: The Tour de Sol Reports Continue
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: Calculating aero drag from torque?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Calculating aero drag from torque?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: PFC50 for sale
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: article: Home-made pure electric cars destined overseas
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Anybody know EV history?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Cable crimping
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Top effiecient EV's.
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) AC Motor Suppliers
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) AC Motor Suppliers
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE:Gvans (was Chloride Charger, was PFC50 for sale)
by William Brinsmead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: AC Motor Suppliers
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Anybody know EV history?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Eagle Picher - NiFe / Nickle Iron batteries - actual users?
by "Steve Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) 12v gell cell optima/excide best price online????
by "darren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: 12v gell cell optima/excide best price online????
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 5/16/05 11:55:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Dennis,
When is your next race in either Tucson or Phoenix?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org >>
My next race,this coming friday nite.Speedworld is just outside Phoenix.
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 5/16/05 11:55:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Dennis,
When is your next race in either Tucson or Phoenix?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.iro >>
I have 2 races this weekend:Friday nite at Speedworld just outside Phoenix
racing the super pro class in the Arizona drag racing ass.where I am ranked
3rd.
Gate open at 5pm Also racing at
Firebird raceway sat.nite in the super pro class where I am almost in last
place.(I
will dig myself out of that hole)gate opens at 5pm
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TiM M wrote:
> How much insulation should I strip from the wire? If I remember
> correctly the barrel elongates some during the crimp. After the
> crimp should there be any copper visible between the end of the
> lug barrel and the cable insulation?
Just strip enough insulation so the wire bottoms out in the lug when the
insulation touches the end of the barrel. No, the lug won't elongate
significantly. Ideally, you'd like as little copper exposed as possible.
> I'm going to heat shrink the crimps after-wards so this would cover
> any exposed copper.
That's a good idea. I like to use the heavy-wall kind that has hot melt
glue inside as well to help seal it.
> Where should the crimps be?
If there's room to crimp twice, split the length of the barrel in half,
and crimp once in the center of each half.
> What about No-OX (sp) or something along those lines to coat the
> copper before I crimp? Is there a particular brand out there that
> is preferred over another?
In theory, your crimper is supposed to develop enough pressure to
cold-weld the copper together, so no grease is needed and it won't have
any effect on the connection. In practice, grease won't hurt, and might
help keep water out in case the terminal gets dunked in water. Some
people use fancy (expensive) concoctions; I just use vaseline.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer wrote:
>
> I have a DC Ampmeter with build-in shunt (good for 25A).
> Is there any not-too-dangerous or wildly inaccurate way to use this for AC?
> I was thinking of putting a bridge rectifier in the line, with the Ammeter
> on the DC side of the bridge.
> Will this work? How far off will the reading be?
Yes, you can use a bridge rectifier, and connect the DC ammeter with its
shunt between the + and - terminals. The diodes will get hot at 25 amps,
so you will need to make quick measurements or put them on a heatsink;
but they won't affect accuracy.
Assuming the ammeter reads average DC current, it will still read
average rectified AC current.
If the meter has poor damping, its pointer might vibrate from the
pulsating AC.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #39: Monday Press Release - Modified Hybrid Vehicle Nears 100 MPG
Barrier
The press release issued earlier (TdS Report #37) was corrected with this one.
Modified Hybrid Vehicle Nears 100 MPG Barrier
In National 2005 Tour de Sol
Two Advanced Vehicles Demonstrate Zero Oil-Consumption,
Reduced Climate-Change Emissions
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Nancy Hazard [EMAIL PROTECTED] 413-774-6051 x18
James Dunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] 508-870-0042 x108
Greenfield, MA -- May 16, 2005 -- A modified hybrid vehicle, a Honda Insight
driven by Brian Hardegen of Pepperell, MA, neared the 100-mile-per-gallon
barrier over a 150-mile range in the National 2005 Tour de Sol held May 13-16
in Saratoga Springs and Albany, NY. Two student teams, from Western Washington
University in Bellingham, WA, and West Philadelphia High School in
Philadelphia, PA, took top honors with their purpose-built hybrid vehicles,
which use biodiesel instead of gasoline and produce 85% less climate-change
emissions compared to a conventional 27 MPG gas car.
During the National 2005 Tour de Sol -- the 17th annual sustainable-energy and
transportation festival and competition -- over 60 hybrid, electric and biofuel
vehicles from throughout the U.S. and Canada demonstrated that we have the
technology today to power our transportation system with zero-oil consumption
and zero climate-change emissions. Each vehicle showed new ways to reduce our
dependence on foreign oil while reducing harmful pollutants.
``Each year, the Tour de Sol highlights the largest innovations in alternative-
energy technology and advanced-fuel vehicles, showcasing the future of the
clean-energy and transportation industry,'' said New York State Gov. George E.
Pataki. ``Over the last 10 years, we've invested unprecedented funding into the
research and development of clean-fuel technology and currently deploy more
than 4,300 clean-fuel vehicles in our state-operated fleets. I'm proud that
many of the cars and components featured in this year's Tour de Sol are being
developed right here in New York State, creating new markets and jobs for the
21st century while helping to clean our air and reduce our dependence on
foreign oil.''
``The students, businesses, New York State government officials, auto companies
producing advanced vehicles, and people using new hybrid and biofuel vehicles
in the Tour de Sol are the new American heroes of the 21st century,'' said
Nancy Hazard, executive director of the Northeast Sustainable Energy
Association in Greenfield, MA, organizer of the Tour de Sol. ``Every American
is a winner because of their efforts to design, build and use advanced vehicles
that aim to reduce imported oil and climate-change emissions today - offering
an alternative solution to the energy and climate-change crises that threaten
life as we know it.''
Thousands of people came to see the vehicles and talk with the people
participating in the three exciting competitions held during the National 2005
Tour de Sol. There were 41 entrants in the new Monte Carlo-style Rally, with
several participating in the Rally's 100 MPG Challenge. The top-placing
vehicles in the Monte Carlo-style Rally, over a minimum 150 mile range, were: a
Honda Insight driven by Mike Lewis of Portland, ME, averaging 79 MPG; a
biodiesel Volkswagen Passat driven by Jonathan Bartlett of Sterling, MA,
delivering 77 MPG; and a Toyota Prius driven by Jean Couto of Marlboro, MA,
with 61 MPG.
``We were very pleased by the performance of the various production vehicles
entered in the Monte Carlo-style Rally and 100 MPG Challenge,'' said James
Dunn, CEO of the Center for Technology Commercialization in Westboro, MA. The
overall average performance of the 29 Toyota and Honda hybrid sedans exceeded
60 MPG, with a modified Honda Insight from Brian Hardegen of Pepperell, MA,
delivering almost 94 MPG and a ``plug-in'' Toyota Prius from Valence Technology
Inc. in Austin, TX, averaging 102 MPG over a 150-mile range. The average of
the 5 biodiesel vehicles was nearly 53 MPG, including the 20 MPG average of the
Ford F250 pickup truck entered by Vogelbilt Corp. in West Babylon, NY. Two
remarkable production vehicles were new Ford Escape hybrid SUVs from the New
York State Energy Research and Development Authority as well as Rad Air in
Parma, OH, achieving 35 and 43 MPG, respectively.
The most interesting overall vehicle was the novel ``plug-in'' hybrid
demonstrated by Valence Technology as well as Energy Control Systems
Engineering Inc. (doing business as EnergyCS LLC) in Monrovia, CA. This is a
modified Toyota Prius with a much larger battery pack than the normal Prius,
and charged with external grid power. On a 150-mile run, this vehicle achieved
102 MPG on the gasoline used, but also used 9 kilowatt-hours of electricity
required to charge the special lithium-ion batteries, which cost less than $1
to recharge. Although this vehicle would be relatively expensive to buy if
available today (due to extra battery cost) plug-in hybrids may become a viable
future technology.
In the Tour de Sol Championship, which showcases concept vehicles built by
students and entrepreneurs as well as some production vehicles, all but two of
the entrants approached zero oil use by powering their vehicles with biodiesel,
electricity, solar or natural gas. Of these, St. Mark's High School in
Southboro, MA, and North Haven Community School, North Haven, ME, demonstrated
true zero-oil consumption and true zero climate-change emissions with their
modified electric Ford pick-up and Volkswagen bus, respectively, At home, they
recharge their vehicles from wind and solar -- demonstrating what can be done
when electric vehicles are recharged by ``clean electricity'', which can be
purchased throughout the U.S.
Three top-placing teams -- West Philadelphia High School, Quebec Advanced
Transportation Institute (ITAQ) in Saint-Jerome, Quebec, Canada, and Western
Washington University in Bellingham, WA -- demonstrated incredibly low
greenhouse-gas emissions by running their vehicles on biodiesel. The ITAQ
entry got 67 MPG in a Mercedes SMART diesel vehicle.
The E-bike and NEV Competition attracted over a dozen vehicles ranging from
recumbent electric tricycles, to stand-up scooters, electric bicycles, and
4-wheeled /4-passenger NEVs (neighborhood electric vehicles). What all these
vehicles have in common is that they run on electricity and are designed to
meet our needs for local ``around town'' trips. The incredible efficiency of
these lightweight vehicles truly demonstrates what can be achieved in the field
of fuel efficiency. Opti-Bike LLC in Boulder, CO, took first place with its
pedal-assisted electric bike.
In addition to the vehicles participating in the National 2005 Tour de Sol,
there were over 30 displays from auto, bus and NEV manufacturers, and business
and government leaders, all working together to produce clean transportation
solutions for the U.S., Canada and beyond. Displays included: Toyota's hybrid
Prius, Highlander SUV and Lexus RX 400h; Honda's three hybrid sedans --
Insight, Civic, and Accord -- its natural-gas Civic GX, and the FCX, one of its
30 hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles; natural-gas, propane and hybrid buses and
trucks; emission-reduction technologies for new ceramic brakes; biodiesel
suppliers; and lithium-battery manufacturers.
Monte Carlo-style Rally & 100 MPG Challenge
The Monte Carlo-style Rally was created this year to offer advanced-vehicle
owners the opportunity to demonstrate what their vehicles (production-line or
modified) can deliver as well as to compete for up to $10,000 in prizes. To
compete for the 100 MPG Challenge (no entrant achieved that goal this year)
entrants began at one of the 11 official stating sites around the U.S. and
Canada and were required to drive a minimum of 500 miles to Stewart's Shops in
Saratoga Springs, NY. Other entrants traveled a minimum of 150 miles to
Saratoga Springs, for other prizes. Key Monte Carlo-style Rally organizers are
the Automotive Career Development Center and the Center for Technology
Commercialization, with Stewart's Shops and biodiesel supplier Environmental
Alternatives providing the fuel for all the entries. This year, 40 teams
entered the new Monte Carlo-style Rally.
E-Bike and NEV Competition
The E-bike and NEV (neighborhood electric vehicle) competition was created last
year by RunAbout Cycles in Sunderland, MA. E-bike and NEV manufacturers,
distributors, entrepreneurs, hobbyists and students are invited to participate
in this two-day event. This year, over a dozen entrants went through technical
specification checks, displayed their vehicles and participated in a range
events of one, two or three hours.
Tour de Sol & Tour de Sol Championship
Over a half million consumers have visited the Tour de Sol since its creation
in 1989 by the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association and over 40 million
print-and electronic-media exposures accrue annually from the Tour. The Tour
de Sol provides a key platform for vehicle manufacturers, students and
entrepreneurs to demonstrate future designs and current products that aim to
reduce oil and carbon emissions to zero. The event provides news media the
opportunity to provide timely and topical updates on the status of sustainable
energy and mobility. This year, over a dozen teams participated in the Tour de
Sol Championship, which began in 1989. This event aims to inspire students and
businesses to design, build, showcase and use concept vehicles that push the
envelope and work toward the ultimate goal of the Tour de Sol.
Sponsors
The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority and the Center for
Technology Commercialization are the event's Premier Sponsors. Key Sponsors
are the U.S. Department of Energy, the New York Power Authority, Toyota Motor
Corp., the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, New York
State Parks, American Honda Motor Co., Environmental Alternatives, and the
Federal Highway Administration.
Northeast Sustainable Energy Association
The Northeast Sustainable Energy Association, the nation's leading regional
education and advocacy association, is a not-for-profit 501(c)(3) organization.
NESEA aims to accelerate the deployment and use of renewable energy and energy
efficiency by producing major sustainable-energy events that inspire and
motivate large numbers of people to get involved and make a difference.
For more information on all of the winners in the National 2005 Tour de Sol,
visit www.TourDeSol.org or contact NESEA at 413.774.6051.
NOTE TO ALL MEDIA: All National 2005 Tour de Sol results as well as photos are
available upon request.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 5/17/05 5:51:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
<< Subj: Re: Anybody know EV history?
Date: 5/17/05 5:51:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ProEV)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Dennis,
> Cliff,I race on a weekly basis against the ice drag racers in Arizona.The
> Current Eliminator is ranked 3rd in the super pro class in the ADRA.
> My next race,this coming friday eve
> at
> speedworld in witman az. Dennis
> Berube
>
Thanks. This is exactly the information I am looking for. Your car fits
under the Super pro class? Have you ever won the Super pro class for the
night? Is there a link that you can point me to for rules and results.
Thanks
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
>>
Hi Cliff, I did win the 2nd race this year and was runner up on one other.You
can visit azdragrace.com Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
I would be nervous about holding speed with a rev or speed limiter. I
don't know how the Siemens system does it, but many systems hit the
limiter, drop to 0 throttle, rev up again, hit the limit, etc. You
might have significant ripple (possibly too fast for you to feel)
making doing a measurement this way less accurate. Note this is
different from a cruise control, which lets you pass the limit a bit,
and is slower reacting as the car is in no immediate danger (as
opposed to hitting redline).
The data on the rev limitter seems improbable. SIADIS has four rev limit
setting, two for each direction. I am not sure how each one works. I assume
the first one 380 N_Max1_R is some sort of soft limitter and 381 N_Max2 is
the hard limitter.
You said 10.4 kW and 14 kW to go 90 mph. Assuming that is for each
motor, that is only 20.8 kW to 28 kW (around 28 to 37 hp) to go that
fast -- that is suspiciously low.
These numbers are total - for both motors, not per motor.
>Camaros were among the most
aerodynamic cars ever produced, and they take about 60 flywheel hp to
go that fast (incidentally very close to the number it takes a
Porsche 911, also). It seems your numbers are about a factor of 2 too
small.
Or factor of 4.
A Hot Rod article showed a Subaru needing 300 hp to go 145 mph
-- so it seems the Suby needs even more hp than the Camaro at high
speed. Are you sure the amps numbers are right? You could video a
clamp-on ammeter and clock to check. If you are just looking to lower
the numbers, though, you could just use the numbers to compare.
I have check before with a fluke clamp meter and SIADIS and the fluke were
close.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone using the Siemens Simotion inverters? How to they compare with the
simovert?
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I recently aquired a Toro brand Power-handle setup, 1960s vintage I think.
Briefly: the Power-Handle is 3.5 hp Briggs & Stratton 4 stroke engine on a
quick disconnect base, with the lawn-mower handle and motor controls attached.
Then there are a number of tool decks that this connects on top of (belt
driven) e.g. reel lawn mower, self propelled blade lawn mower, snow blower,
roto-tiller.
The idea is that you only use one of these tools at a time, so you swap the
motor to the one you are using.
-------
Now, half baked idea #1:
I could make a generator deck for it, and have a range extender for my
motorcycle.
half baked idea #2:
One could make an electric replacement for the power handle part and use it on
all the mating decks. You could skip the splitting pully clutch, since the
electric wouldn't need to idle.
Problem #1:
I've not seen these available in 30+ years except at garage sales.
Problem #2:
I'm not sure how much weight the decks would support, which would limit the
batteries, unless you went corded.
Mike-
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wrote to ThunderSky and asked them if rectified AC charging was okay.
Their reply is below. Do others of you interpret this the way I do, that
rectified AC charging would be okay if I did only the bulk phase of the
charging that way, then switched to DC for the final part of the charge?
And that the only harm to the battery would be if I didn't fully charge it?
"The constant current is better than a rectified AC wave for charging, and
the battery can be charged fully. It is mainly used by the constant current
of less than 0.3CA in order that the battery get one perfect performance and
longer cycle life."
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #40: The Tour de Sol Reports Continue
The Tour de Sol wrapped up on Monday, but the Reports will continue for some
weeks. I have about 5 hours of taped of interviews to type up, plus a large
bundle of pictures to post. I hope to work on getting through them a little
every day until they are done. So please stay tuned.
Mike Bianchi
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Factor of 4 below a Camaro -- if only it were true!
If your rev limiter is spiking, it could be that is causing the
anomalous results -- the slow meters miss the fast spikes.
You could do quick and dirty coastdowns to estimate power needed:
P = 1/2*m*(v2^2 - v1^2) / (t2 - t1)
F = m * (v2 - v1) / (t2 - t1)
Wheel Torque = F / (wheel radius) / 4
If you want to do a bunch of speed vs. time points (like every 5 mph
for high speed down to about 20 mph, and both directions), I'd be
happy to drop that in my sim and estimate your rolling resistance and
aero drag.
Would race tires save energy? Interesting question. They obviously
save energy in autocross, because low power cars can turn
significantly faster times by conserving more speed through turns.
I've heard Hoosiers have stiff sidewalls, so that could help. I would
guess, though, that the sticky rubber would make rolling resistance
worse. Even if they were better than street tires, EVers wouldn't be
using them because they'd have to replace tires every 2000 miles or
so.
--- ProEV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David,
>
> >
> > I would be nervous about holding speed with a rev or speed
> limiter. I
> > don't know how the Siemens system does it, but many systems hit
> the
> > limiter, drop to 0 throttle, rev up again, hit the limit, etc.
> You
> > might have significant ripple (possibly too fast for you to feel)
> > making doing a measurement this way less accurate. Note this is
> > different from a cruise control, which lets you pass the limit a
> bit,
> > and is slower reacting as the car is in no immediate danger (as
> > opposed to hitting redline).
>
> The data on the rev limitter seems improbable. SIADIS has four rev
> limit
> setting, two for each direction. I am not sure how each one works.
> I assume
> the first one 380 N_Max1_R is some sort of soft limitter and 381
> N_Max2 is
> the hard limitter.
>
> >
> > You said 10.4 kW and 14 kW to go 90 mph. Assuming that is for
> each
> > motor, that is only 20.8 kW to 28 kW (around 28 to 37 hp) to go
> that
> > fast -- that is suspiciously low.
>
> These numbers are total - for both motors, not per motor.
>
>
> >Camaros were among the most
> > aerodynamic cars ever produced, and they take about 60 flywheel
> hp to
> > go that fast (incidentally very close to the number it takes a
> > Porsche 911, also). It seems your numbers are about a factor of 2
> too
> > small.
>
> Or factor of 4.
>
>
> >A Hot Rod article showed a Subaru needing 300 hp to go 145 mph
> > -- so it seems the Suby needs even more hp than the Camaro at
> high
> > speed. Are you sure the amps numbers are right? You could video a
> > clamp-on ammeter and clock to check. If you are just looking to
> lower
> > the numbers, though, you could just use the numbers to compare.
> >
> I have check before with a fluke clamp meter and SIADIS and the
> fluke were
> close.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is about where Goldie runs In Good girl mode....with wide tires and a
nasty negative cambler.
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: Calculating aero drag from torque?
> Evan,
>
> > That already seems surprisingly good (perhaps suspiciously good!).
>
> I am thinking suspiciously good. Maybe 13 seconds isn't a long enough time
> for power and drag to balance but rpm was flat and torque and amps did not
> vary much.
>
> > The first thing I would do is repeat the test and try to verify that
> > data, or ignore it and start again with some 60mph tests.
> > If it's correct - Good news, you have one very aerodynamic Subaru -
> > Bad news, making it much better might be difficult :)
> >
> >
>
> Another data point. Highway driving staying between 60-65, we are seeing
> around 225 watt-hrs per mile.
>
> Cliff
>
> www.ProEV.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like the breaker failed.
I had some trouble with Potter Brumfield breakers on the early ones.
CBI is a LOT more reliable.
So much for American brand and quality....
The Breaker is about $50, and I have about a Grand$ worth on the way.
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: PFC50 for sale
> Hey Rich,
> I checked out the PFC-50 today. the output read like a
> diode just like you said but I was unable to check the
> input side to see if it looked like a bridge. The
> switch would not turn on. I would flip it and it would
> just return. I tried it on my PFC-20 and it read like
> you said. I decided not to power the thing up without
> being able to test it. your input would be
> appreciated.
>
>
> Gadget
>
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/17/05, Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wrote to ThunderSky and asked them if rectified AC charging was okay.
> Their reply is below. Do others of you interpret this the way I do, that
> rectified AC charging would be okay if I did only the bulk phase of the
> charging that way, then switched to DC for the final part of the charge?
> And that the only harm to the battery would be if I didn't fully charge it?
>
> "The constant current is better than a rectified AC wave for charging, and
> the battery can be charged fully. It is mainly used by the constant current
> of less than 0.3CA in order that the battery get one perfect performance and
> longer cycle life."
I think they're saying they only approve of "constant current" - i.e
smooth DC.
The problem is of course the voltage peaks. You might have trouble
measuring the peak voltage caused by your 60 or 120hz pulses on a cell
by cell basis, but if they exceed the maximum safe voltage at all, it
would be bad news.
If you're rigging up this charging idea as a one-off, then it
shouldn't be impossible to do a big output filter as well, with
surplus components maybe.
Or, restrict it to bulk charging as you said but be very careful
about the peaks.
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--- Begin Message ---
On 17 May 2005 at 8:12, Paul Wujek wrote:
> More info on 'Happy Messenger' available here:
>
> http://www.qyev.com/english/zycp/xl.html
>
Cool. I've always wanted a Rattery Electric Vehicle. <g>
The English home page does show something that looks rather like an Echo, but
the
other photos on the website (if you're patient enough to wait for them) don't.
What
they show is boxier and green, and from the underhood shots is definitely an
EV. No
idea what the Echo style car is.
Range estimate 150km city cycle (not defined), NiMH battery rated for 500
cycles
(so about 60,000km life at 80% DOD), liquid cooled AC motor, 20kw cont / 60kw
peak. Top speed 100 km/h. Not exactly EV1 zoom, but enough go for most people.
Will it succeed in the states? Consider this. Forty to 45 years ago, Japanese
cars
were just starting to arrive on US shores. Frankly, the early ones were
nothing to
brag about, but they did establish for a Japan their position as first-choice
suppliers
of fuel-efficient vehicles.
This was exactly the right place to be when the fuel crunches of 1973-77
prompted
long lines at filling stations. (Remember the ads? "Datsun saves about a
gallon a
day.") American cars sat on dealers' lots while Japanese subcompacts were
selling
at over sticker price - when they were available.
American automakers' fortunes have ebbed and flowed since, but they never
really
quite regained their dominance of their own market.
Now suppose the Chinese - already in some ways the equivalent of 1950s and
early
1960s Japan in consumer goods - position themselves as THE suppliers of BEVs.
Like those uninspiring early Japanese subcompacts, Chinese BEVs might not sell
in
huge numbers straightaway. But let the lines form at the filling stations
again -
which I think is somewhat likely in the next 10 years - and China's automakers,
and
possibly those of other nations, could be rather well positioned to eat
Detroit's lunch.
One could counter my argument with the point that the US automakers are more
savvy about working the political system than they were in the 1970s. That's
probably true, and perhaps Washington is more sympathetic to Detroit too. So
the
free market might very well not prevail, with China and other BEV-supplying
nations
legislatively held at bay to keep the US safe for GM. Even with that, it's
hard to miss
the parallels between Detroit's resistance to small cars in the 1970s (consider
such
half-hearted attempts as the Pinto and Vega), and their current allergies to
BEVs.
The next 10 years are apt to be most interesting.
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--- Begin Message ---
Does this help?
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evhistry.htm
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--- Begin Message ---
I've been thinking about an LC (or possibly pi) filter after the bridge
anyway. Can someone suggest good values for the inductor and capacitor for
an LC filter, given the 150V and 60A max?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
On 5/17/05, Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wrote to ThunderSky and asked them if rectified AC charging was okay.
> Their reply is below. Do others of you interpret this the way I do, that
> rectified AC charging would be okay if I did only the bulk phase of the
> charging that way, then switched to DC for the final part of the charge?
> And that the only harm to the battery would be if I didn't fully charge
it?
>
> "The constant current is better than a rectified AC wave for charging, and
> the battery can be charged fully. It is mainly used by the constant
current
> of less than 0.3CA in order that the battery get one perfect performance
and
> longer cycle life."
I think they're saying they only approve of "constant current" - i.e
smooth DC.
The problem is of course the voltage peaks. You might have trouble
measuring the peak voltage caused by your 60 or 120hz pulses on a cell
by cell basis, but if they exceed the maximum safe voltage at all, it
would be bad news.
If you're rigging up this charging idea as a one-off, then it
shouldn't be impossible to do a big output filter as well, with
surplus components maybe.
Or, restrict it to bulk charging as you said but be very careful
about the peaks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
In theory, your crimper is supposed to develop enough pressure to
cold-weld the copper together, so no grease is needed and it won't have
any effect on the connection. In practice, grease won't hurt, and might
help keep water out in case the terminal gets dunked in water. Some
people use fancy (expensive) concoctions; I just use vaseline.
My father was a ship's captain. They often had problems with the power
outlets on the docks; water, salt, whatnot. He'd just take vasoline and
squish it into the slots of the outlet. "Works great," he told me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think they are in the EV album, but the Solectria Sunrise, GM
EV1, and AC Propulsion Tzero are very efficient.
Also, how are you defining efficiency? As range?
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Very unscientific. Just paged through the EV album. If anyone
> know of even
> better candidates please list. So Far Red Beastie looks good for
> the top
> spot but a small scooter might beat it for. Seems small vehicles
> that can
> carry 4 passengers and weigh less than 2000 pounds like the Robin
> Reliant
> might also be contenders. Anything that weighted around 2k and got
> 40 or
> more miles range got in. One City EL was amazing. Probably the
> winner.
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/100.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/254.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/356.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/587.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/206.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/142.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/205.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/117.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/308.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/361.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/194.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/336.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/550.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/348.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/019.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/444.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/077.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/341.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/022.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/581.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/323.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/350.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/454.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/435a.jpg
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/476.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/480.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/570.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/314.html
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am (once again) reviewing the market for AC motors and controllers -
purpose built for EVs. Here is the list that I have so far:
* Siemens Motors from Metric Mind - surplus units
* MES Motors from Metric Mind - although the large MES units are "vapour
ware" and are not in production
* Solectria from Electro Automotive
* Enova Systems - does not sell one off motors, only bulk purchases
* AC Propulsion - pretty pricey compared to the rest
Any other out there that are specially built for Electric Vehicles?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am (once again) reviewing the market for AC motors and controllers -
purpose built for EVs. Here is the list that I have so far:
* Siemens Motors from Metric Mind - surplus units
* MES Motors from Metric Mind - although the large MES units are "vapour
ware" and are not in production
* Solectria from Electro Automotive
* Enova Systems - does not sell one off motors, only bulk purchases
* AC Propulsion - pretty pricey compared to the rest
Any other out there that are specially built for Electric Vehicles?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks,
I bought a G-van a couple of years ago, it came with 36 flooded Trojans
at eol, I later managed to get over 1k miles out of them.
I installed one of Rich's excellent PFC 20s, and I also have the big
floor mounted charger. A word of caution
about the PFCs I 1st connected it directly to the pack and it worked
great until I drove it a couple of days later while coming home the PFC
made a 'thump" and when I got home it was dead, replaced the fuse and it
was still dead, I called Rich and he most graciously repaired it, then I
assumed it was just a fluke. few days later it happened AGAIN !!! I was
sick because it was now obvious that the fault was not with the PFC 20,
fortunately this time it only blew the fuse. The moral of the story is
for G vans always use a contactor to disconnect the charger while
driving. The 3rd contact on the contactor I used to prevent driving
while plugged in. I added a E-meter and all was well for many more miles.
The regen is great and they can carry 1000 lbs of payload with no
problem, 55mph max. I am now in the process of stuffing the battery
rack with Saft Stm180s, fortunately the rack has an extra 1/2 inch of
width to accommodate them. I hope to be back on the road soon.
Regards, Bill Brinsmead Here in Reno Nv.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am (once again) reviewing the market for AC motors and
> controllers - purpose built for EVs.
> Any other out there that are specially built for Electric Vehicles?
Brusa? <http://www.brusa.biz/e_company.htm>
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Here's another page for your "Link Overload" pleasure.
http://ev.starttips.com/
The two other's I'm aware of have already been mentioned.
The History, and the Timeline pages.
L8r
Ryan
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--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone on the list own or operate, or know of someone that owns or
operates, Eagle Picher NiFe / Nickle Iron batteries?
Thx,
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seems like a good place to ask about a good battery for my truck
red or yellow tops best price you guys know of.
I've seen $90 on reds
$130 on yellows
Thank You
................................
www.12voltguy.com
SeaBass44/~Darren
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--- Begin Message ---
auto supply usa has the XCD's for 98 bucks, and you
get them delivered to your nearest excide dealer for
free. so you save on shipping.
Gadget
--- darren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Seems like a good place to ask about a good battery
> for my truck
> red or yellow tops best price you guys know of.
> I've seen $90 on reds
> $130 on yellows
> Thank You
> ................................
> www.12voltguy.com
> SeaBass44/~Darren
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
