EV Digest 4371
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DC/DCs
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Tango Performance
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: PFC20 Charging Questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: DCDC Converter choice- flip a coin?
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV Transmissions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Where are all the electric Pacers?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Madman & Plasma Boy do Earth Day
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Garage floor experiment - FTC
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) TdS Report #43: Team Profile: Bio SMART
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) TdS Report #46: Photos - The Green Hornet
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) TdS Report #45: The Green Hornet
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: Madman & Plasma Boy do Earth Day
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) TdS Report #44: Photos - Quebec Advanced Transportation Institute (ITAQ),
Bio SMART
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) RE: DC-DC Converters
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Hightower speaks for Plugin hybrids.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) TdS Report #47: Team Profile: The Lorax
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) TdS Report #48: Photos - The Lorax
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Garage floor experiment - FTC
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: S-10 reconversion
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roger,
I was just pointing out that DC/DC functions are getting rather easy to
find.
We call them Uni switching power supplies.
I have a vertical limit inside the PFC50... I need to check what I really
have.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 3:33 PM
Subject: RE: DC/DCs
> Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > hey I just got a PDF from Mean Well for Power supplies for
> > the PFC50 chargers.
>
> <http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/pdf/pps125.pdf>
>
> > The 125 watt units can be trimmed to 14.25 to 15.5 volts
> > And you can feed them 127 to 370 DC as well as 90 to 264 VAC.
>
> This is for the 15V output model; the 13.5V model trim range is
> 12.82-14.17V, which might be a better range for a DC/DC.
>
> > This gets to be a pretty good DC/DC converter for $70 bucks.
>
> Note that it is open frame and is rated only 100W convection cooled; you
> need to add your own 18CFM fan for the 125W rating. Efficiency is a bit
> low at 80%.
>
> I notice that the datasheet format is suspiciously similar to that of
> Astrodyne's products...
>
> Astrodyne offers the RS100-15 <http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/RS100.pdf>
> for $61 (trim range 14.25-16.5V, 100W enclosed with hiccup overload
> behaviour), or the RS150-15 for $65.
>
> Astrodyne's SP100-13.5 <http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/SP-100.pdf> is
> $88, but is enclosed, can be trimmed from 12.8-14.9V, and has constant
> current overload protection rather than the Meanwell's foldback
> limiting.
>
> Still, 100W (about 7A output) is a bit whimpy for a DC/DC, and if you
> figure that about 300W is
> needed to do the job properly, then Astrodyne's PSP300-13.5 at $188
> offers better bang for your buck (the PSP500-13.5 is better still, at
> $0.52/W vs the PSP300's $0.62/W or the Meanwell's $0.70/W).
>
> > They are 2x what I am using, and 2x the price,
>
> If you are at about the 50-60W level, then the following Astrodyne
> models might be of interest to you:
>
> OFM60-150 <http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/OFM4060.pdf> 60W 15V, $33/1
> $29/qty 10, universal AC input, but no DC input range specified, open
> frame. Effciency 85%.
>
> LPS50-15 <http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/LPS50.pdf> 50W 15V, $39/1
> $29/qty 10, universal AC/127-370VDC input, open frame. Efficiency 84%.
>
> RS50-15 <http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/RS50.pdf> 50W 15V, $39/1 $33/qty
> 10, universal AC/125-373VDC input, enclosed. Efficiency 83%.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am wondering about the performance specs advertised for the Tango from
Commuticars. On a number of web pages it says the Tango can go 0-60mph in
4 secs and top speed of 120mph.
...but in the fine print on the performance web page (
http://www.commutercars.com/ then click performance and scroll to the
bottom) it says these are estimated figures based upon NEDRA drag races
adjusted for weight, torque, controller, racing slicks etc.
Has a **stock** Tango actually performed to these numbers?
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes!
----- Original Message -----
From: "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: PFC20 Charging Questions
> Rich,
>
> I think it may be a beta charger. It's Jim Coate's old PFC20. Does that
> change your answer to number 2?
>
> Glenn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 3:38 PM
> Subject: Re: PFC20 Charging Questions
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:08 AM
> > Subject: PFC20 Charging Questions
> >
> >
> >
> > I've gotten my new batteries installed, and am getting ready to charge
> them
> > for the first time. I have a couple of basic questions:
> >
> > My pack setup is 22 - 6 Volt flooded led acid. (Sam's Stowaway)
> >
> > 1. I'm doing an equalizing charge first, do I just turn the voltage
limit
> > up and monitor the batteries manually until they hit 7.5v per cell? Is
> this
> > the norm for doing an equalizing charge with a basic (no batregs, etc)
> > PFC-20 setup? So basically any time I get ready to do an equalizing
> charge
> > I'm just going to turn the voltage limit up a bit and monitor the
voltage
> /
> > amps manually?
> > Correct.
> >
> > 2. After reading the instructions many times, I have one questions (I
> > think) about the way the charger works... It seems it charges until the
> > pack reaches a specific voltage limit, and then depending on the
> > configuration it kicks off a shutoff timer. It seems like switching
> SW3-1
> > ON would be the most basic setup. It would charge until the pack
reached
> > the voltage limit, then start the shutoff timer for the specified time.
> > What confuses me is that in the instructions is states that if no
Batregs
> > are connected SW3-1 will have no effect. Am I missing something, or do
I
> > just need to keep all the SW3-x OFF for basic operation?
> >
> > You may be reading setup info for the Beta chargers. I thought that was
> > taken off the site.
> >
> > You have 8 dips
> > # 1 is voltage peak detect start of timer.You want this one on.
> >
> > #3 and #4 are Regbuss latch, you want the latch off but the regbuss
> enabled.
> > Don't worry I just want it that way for now.
> > So the chargers ship with 1,3,4 on. And for your applications this will
be
> > fine.
> > I would do a Lower voltage charge first to make sure everything is
basicly
> > fine. Once that is done then up the voltage to 7.5 per battery, and
> monitor
> > for gassing and a raising voltage. If the voltage fall while charging,
> > Terminate the cycle and let the batteries cool.
> > Be carfull with the equalizing charge. Also should some acid leak or
mist
> > TURN the CHARGER OFF before cleaning up the Acid tracks. With flooded
> > batteries and a non isolated charger, don't work on the EV while it's
> being
> > charged.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roger. Now I have something to chew on. You da man!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 8:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: DCDC Converter choice- flip a coin?
Richard Rau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The following sites show DC-DC units that are all vying for
> the honor of gracing my motor compartment.
>
> I want 300W-500W output.
>
> http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/PSP300.pdf - Astrodyne
>
> http://www.amplepower.com/products/chrg/index.html - Ample Power
>
> http://www.powerstream.com/DC-HV.htm - Powerstream
>
> http://www.vicr.com/products/dc-dc/ - Vicor
>
> (and Azure Dynamics/Solectria - I need to look into this one more)
>
> ..and others can be found because a DC-DC power supplies are common
> components in the world of power electronics. Here is where
> my concern comes in. Will a 'conventional' DCDC power supply
> handle the duties of an EV? Temperature yes, but how about
> humidity, vibration, and more I'm sure.
The answer is "maybe". None of the power suplies you've listed are
sealed, so all will be susceptible to humidity, dirt, etc. The
exception here is the Vicor. The Azure/Solectria/Brusa DC/DC will
likely be sealed and intended for use in an automotive environment (and
priced accordingly much higher than the other options).
The Ample Power unit looks like a re-badged Todd. The Powerstream unit
doesn't mention how the unit behaves in the event of an overload
condition, and this will be critical to its suitability for use as a
DC/DC. The Astrodyne 500W unit responds to overload with constant
current limiting, which is good. The 300W unit likely does so also (I
still don't believe the datasheet's claim of constant voltage overload
behaviour).
If you went the Vicor route, you would want a pair of the 200W BatMods.
The 150V input model has a 100-200V input range, which might barely be
adequate for your 180V pack, provided you ensure the DC/DC is always
disconnected while charging. You would need to provide a heatsink for
the modules and wire them up with a bit of external circuitry to set the
output voltage and current limits, etc., so this is not a
"plug-and-play" solution like the alternatives.
> Note the following. These are Lee Hart's comments that I am
> borrowing from a 2002 EV Archive.
> > To begin, it should supply power for the various 12v loads
> > in a car; lights, motors, and minor electronic loads.
> > - The motors and lights draw tremendous starting currents,
> > so the DC/DC needs to start quickly into a nearly shorted
> > load (can't shut down like most switching power supplies do).
This is where the auto-recovery constant current limiting overload
behaviour of the Astrodyne (and Vicor BatMods) is important. I assume
the Ample Power/Todd clone also does this since Todd have been used as
EV DC/DCs for years.
> > - The DC/DC needs good transient response; voltage should
> > not sag more than 1-2v if the load is suddenly applied, or
> > overshoot more than 1-2v if the load is suddenly removed. If
> > it does, then you will see the headlights brighten and dim
> > when wipers or fans are turned on/off.
I suspect any of these units will satisfy this requirement. The voltage
overshoot may be important since some supplies respond differently to an
over-voltage condition than to overload, and may shut down and need to
be power-cycled to recover in the event of an over-voltage fault.
> > - The DC/DC should protect itself against too low an input voltage.
> > Remember that people have a habit of running their batteries
> > totally dead on occasion, so the DC/DC needs to be safe with
> > input voltages right down to zero! Best case; as input voltage
> > falls, reduce output power to protect DC/DC from damage yet still
> > provide 12v power for critical loads like emergency flashers,
> > control electronics, radio presets, etc.
This is a weakness of the Todd and likely its Ample Power clone. As the
input voltage falls, the supply draws more and more current until it
finally fries. The Astrodyne and Powerstream units reduce the maximum
output power (current) they can deliver as the input voltage drops.
What they do when the input voltage drops below the minimum input level
is not specified, but quite frankly, if your 180V stack of Optimas ever
gets run down below the Astrodyne's 124V min or the Powerstream's 90V
minimum, it really doesn't matter if the DC/DC commits suicide since its
replacement cost will disappear into the noise compared to the cost of
your replacement battery pack (since your pack will just have been
murdered).
> > - The DC/DC needs to protect itself against too high an
> > input voltage. AGM batteries on an unregulated charger can
> > easily go past 17v per 12v battery!
The 370V max input of the Astrodyne and Powerstream units covers this
off. The 200V max of the 150V input Vicor is just barely enough for a
180V pack shortly off charge, but would not survive if left connected
during charge. The 300V input Vicor handles 200-400V which doesn't
extend low enough to cover your normal operating range.
The usual problem with the Todd (and likely the Ample Power clone) is
that they are either 120VAC or 240VAC input (and of late, I understand
they may all use a voltage double on the input such that the 120VAC
units can't be run from a modest voltage DC pack). A 120VAC input
likely won't handle your peak pack voltage while a 240VAC input unit may
not handle the lower end of your pack voltage (and the unit may kill
itself trying to draw too much input current at the low pack voltage).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
>> The Powerglide used in the 1960-1969 Chevy Corvairs is quite
>> small. The ratios are 1.82:1 in first and 1:1 in second gear.
>> It also has the advantage that the torque converter and
>> transmission are two separate units, so it would be easier to
>> leave off the torque converter.
> Do you perhaps mean that the front pump and transmission are
> separate units? (The torque convertor and transmission are always
> separate units ;^)
The Corvair Powerglide transmission and its oil pumps are one unit. The
front pump is at the very front of the transmission (toward the front of
the car). This pump is driven by a *long* shaft, passing completely thru
the transmssion, differential, and torque converter to be spun by the
engine. There is also a rear pump, spun by the transmission's output
shaft and pinion of the differential. This pump provides oil pressure if
the engine is not running, so (for example) the car can be push started.
Since the Corvair was rear engined, the layout is a bit surprising.
Going from front to rear, you had the transmission front oil pump, the
transmission itself, the rear pump, the differential, then the torque
converter in its bellhousing, and finally the engine in the rear. Thus
the Corvair torque converter was a couple feet away from the
transmission!
Otherwise, it is a scaled-down version of a regular GM Powerglide
transmission of the day.
> Another possibility is the Ford FMX automatic transmission; it is
> unusual in that the bellhousing unbolts from the tranny, such that the
> tranny itself is quite compact. Unfortunately, I believe the tranny
> case is steel rather than aluminum as is the case for most all other
> (North American) automatic trannies.
The Corvair bellhousing is aluminum. Its large diameter end bolts to the
differential, and the small diameter end bolts to the engine.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Ghandi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not quite the same thing but about 25 or 30 years ago, Electric Vehicle
Associates in Cleveland built a few conversions based on the AMC
Sportabout (Pacer wagon).
Want to buy one? Here's an example that's (alas) been "deconverted" to
ICE. The description suggests that it retains the HD suspension and low final
drive, so it could probably be reconverted to an EV without too much
difficulty.
http://amcpacer.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=pacersforsale&action=dis
play&num=1112392055
http://tinyurl.com/9wmav
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I too have experienced damage to our street rod due to
> uncontrolled children at these events.
"John Wayland" [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Personally, I find a large majority of the earth muffin type
> folks hard to put up with, especially when it comes to their
> ill behaved offspring.
Not that earth muffins have a monopoly on ill-behaved offspring... ;^>
> Yeah, this was definitely the stereotypical Earth Day
> crowd, so I was was worn down by the day's end after having
> to constantly remind little brats, their fingers greasy and
> dirty from all they've touched, not to lean against the car,
> pry open its doors, and jump up and down on the custom seats
No offense guys, but family-oriented events such as this are totally
different from any hot-rod show type event I've ever attended. Hot rod
show type events (in my experience) tend to be attended primarily by
(more or less) adult males, sometimes accompanied by (more or less)
adult females. While there may occasionally be some children along with
their parents, the gleaming and spotless display vehicles are usually
roped off to protect them from both adult and child. And this is
despite the fact that the vast majority of the (adult) hot rod type
event attendees understand that each of these vehicles represents
thousands of hours and dollars of investment by their owners, something
which most certainly cannot be said for the largely non-gearhead
attendees at Earth Day type events.
I would understand comments like this if this were your first Earth Day
type experience after having been accustomed to the sanitary world of
hot rod events, but not after you've been to more than one. If you
don't want every refried beansprout and their earth muffin offspring
climbing in or touching your show quality vehicle, come prepared with
some means of roping it off to make it clear that it is a "look but
don't touch" exhibit.
> In my brain, I questioned the 'crank'n sound system' bit,
> as without exception, in all of the past earth day shows
> I've been part of, they have nixed any attempt at audio
> fun, with immediate protests about how the sound was too
> loud, too aggressive, too much this, too much that....
> mellow-wimpy stuff like Gordon Lightfoot, Adrian Legg,
> Enya, or any other genra that lacks bass and is about as
> exciting as a bowl of soggy Special K cereal probably
> would be acceptable.
I won't try to defend the others, but you simply haven't listened to
Enya if you lump it in with "any other genre that lacks bass". There is
some seriously low frequency synth bass in at least some of her work
that takes a Wayland-level stereo to do it justice. Perhaps you've
simply only ever heard it as background music on marginal quality
equipment? (I can't actually picture you listening to Enya, as it is
much more mellow than your usual fare, but at the same time, surely
there are times, perhaps late in the evening when you want to relax
before turning in for the night that you do listen to something mellower
than AC/DC cranked to 11? ;^>)
> Not much can be said about the actual EVent, other than it
> was the typical granola crunching save the earth crowd,
> only a bit more bizarre than usual in that many of those
> directly involved with the show were wearing goofy animal
> costumes, I guess, to convey their thoughts of 'being one
> with all God's creatures' or something like that...cute,
> but goofy.
Try as I might, I can't help but imagine Madman dressed as Bugs
Bunny/Daffy Duck-hunting Elmer Fudd at this event... ;^>
Thanks, John, for your usual entertaining post which provides a
refreshing break from the typical EVDL technical fare!
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Garage floor experiment - FTC (Free to Caster) steering.
I was placing the front end of my hybrid FTC trike to the rear drive
section. The trike has a horizontal lean axis.
I was on my knees on the smooth garage floor when I observed the
following:
As I tilted the seat to the right I noticed that the rear
end 'countersteered' to the left. In fact, having the rear steer to
the left, is correct for a right turn (not countersteer).
What I am trying to say is that I expected the rear to remain
straight while the front just leaned. I did not expect, the rear to
torque and thus to 'articulate' to help make a turn. This effect
reminds me of a rear steered fire engine.
I was somewhat pleasantly surprised, and I look forward to test
riding it.
BTW I am going to a more vertical less trail front fork angle.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #43: Team Profile: Bio SMART
Canadians have a transportation option not yet available in the United States,
namely the "smart" cars manufactured by, but not branded as, Mercedes Benz.
(The smart logo is always in lower case letters.) These two-person commuter
vehicles were originally a collaboration between Swatch (the Swiss watch
company) and Mercedes, intended to appeal to the young, smart set. Hugo
Marsolais, the principle engineer with ITAQ (Quebec Advanced Transportation
Institute), told me why he brought this car to the Tour as we took a short
ride.
How many smarts have sold in Canada? "About one or two thousand per year.
World wide, I think they have sold a million."
At first glance, this car reminded me of the Th!nk car. 2-seats, short wheel
base, basic transportation. But the smart is much more refined, comfortable
and roomy. This one is the Passion model, a convertible, that comes with
electric side mirrors and window lifts, nice looking fabric and trim, and air
conditioning. "You can go on the highway for hours. My girlfriend and I came
from Montreal. We entered the Monte Carlo Rally and the Tour to have fun, meet
people, and send the message that we can improve the environment with current
technology in cars that are fun to drive, affordable and ecological.
"The three Rs of sustainable development are Reduce, Reuse and Recycle. Before
Reusing and Recycling we need to Reduce. This car is about the first R. My
philosophy of research and development is to do the easy things before doing
the complex things. Before hybridizing a Hummer, why not just reduce the
Hummer? Before searching for the exotic solution, why not check the tire
pressure? Make sure the engine is tuned up. Easy stuff! That is the message.
"The smart is a good educational tool to promote the biofuel R&D niche. Our
biofuel comes exclusively from used cooking oil and rendered animal fats." So
things that used to be a waste product and an expense can now be sold as a
resource. In fact the sunlight and carbon dioxide that plants collect during
photosynthesis store energy in the oil. It's first use was to cook something.
It's second use, instead of putting it into dumps, is to be a fuel. "When it
was thrown into a land fill, it deteriorates into methane which is a green
house gas 21 times more harmful than carbon dioxide. It is not just a question
of recycling it. There is a positive effect from not disposing of it, plus the
positive effect of regaining the stored energy."
Are Canadians ready for that message? "It's moving and part of our mandate.
Quebec is a big biofuel producer, but we were not using any of it; it was
exported to the United States and Ontario, because they had progressive
incentives. As a technology transfer center we have the mission of increasing
public awareness" of the benefits of biofuel. "Ontario and British Columbia
had incentives for biofuel. Quebec, thanks to our efforts with other partners,
now have a tax break for transportation uses. That is not enough, but it is
good start."
They are driving the car on B20 (20% biodiesel, 80% petroleum diesel), "so far.
We intend to run it on B100 when the fuel is available." (Later in the week,
he did fuel it with some of the B100 that Vogelbilt brought to the tour.)
Where is the research need? "The problem in Quebec is the cold." B20 works
fine in the car as is, and B100 works fine in the summer. "B20 freezes at -18
degrees Celsius." They see that temperature for about 3 weeks each winter.
"My center is working right now on thermal management systems for vehicles
running on B20, such as school buses, trucks and cabs." The problems are not
that different from those of petroleum diesel in the cold, "so there are
solutions for these issues."
"People forget that the diesel engine was originally designed in 1901 by
Rudolph Diesel to run on peanut oil. 10 years later, petro diesel was
formulated to copy the vegetable oil. Since then diesel engines have fumed,
smoked, been smelly and deposit carbon."
Hugo said that they intend to create a Tour de Sol-like event in one or two
years, but in the winter. "It sounds sadistic. We are discussing it with
Michelin." Can you imagine B100 cars parked all night at -25 degrees C?
ITAQ also has involvement with electric vehicles.
http://www.cstj.net/itaq/
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #46: Photos - The Green Hornet
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005/photos_009.html
The Green Hornet
This converted MR2 can be run as a fast, burn-rubber racing car or as a more
docile street machine.
It was put through Technical Testing, even though it was not competing,
to see how close-to-ready it was for next year's Tour.
Four contactors (two near the shock absorber tower and two near them middle of
the "engine" compartment) can reconfigure.
the nine batteries in the rear, . . .
. . . and nine batteries in the front
as one long string in series for speed
or two short strings in parallel for range.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #45: The Green Hornet
This would be a Team Profile, except this car is not here to compete in the
Tour. Larry Jarboe is here with the car which sports a NEDRA (National
Electric Drag Racing Association) sign. He is from Great Mills High School in
Saint Mary's County Maryland. Larry is a county commissioner there.
"We brought it here for the Great Mills Engineering Club just so we can do the
technical testing so we'll know what we have to do to make the car efficient
for next year. We've got the speed, now we need the efficiency.
"I like what it said during the acceleration run. `97 decibels - tires squeal
very loudly.' The kids will design a different system for next year."
The car is a converted Toyota MR2, with the batteries under the hood and in the
small trunk behind the engine compartment. Each battery string is 9 12-Volt
Optimas. "On the street we run them in parallel. It's a docile car and we
take it nice and easy. At the track we go fast, with the strings in series.
The motor is a standard FB4001 Advanced DC, using the Zilla controller made by
Otmar Ebenhoech, that can deliver 1000 Amps but we don't put that much through
it.
"Our goal here was to come and see some of the new technologies and share
ideas, which is what you do when you come to the Tour de Sol. I'm very
supportive of tech education: engineering, better fuels, a better future. We
have a naval air station and a lot of the kids come from those families."
Last year the kids came to Larry looking for help in building a drag racing car
because I was involved with electric vehicles. He helped lay out the
requirements so the car would be both raced and used on a regular basis.
"Batteries like to be exercised. Most of the innovations in the car were
developed by the students. They figured out how to fit in the batteries." The
car is registered and insured in Larry's name, and he drives it as his daily
car.
On June 11th, the car will be at the Power of DC Race at the Mason Dixon
Dragway in Hagerstown, Maryland.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well John & Rod I understand how you feel but.... These are just the types
that will buy an EV when it comes with all the bells and whistles. In other
words a factory EV. I know some of these in the Bay Area that leased EV's
but won't touch a conversion. (They're all driving 2004 Priuss now.) If
however you mention Toyota or Honda they are there. It's the "I need
service thing" Please don't give up. When they see a Blue Meanie you do
get their attention. I'm almost part of this crowd but because I'm willing
to bust my knuckles I don't quite fit in with them. I yell at my kids too.
Lawrence Rhodes........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #44: Photos - Quebec Advanced Transportation Institute (ITAQ), Bio
SMART
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005/photos_008.html
Quebec Advanced Transportation Institute (ITAQ), Bio SMART
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Bio SMART (2005 SMART)
Vehicle Number: 10
Team Name: Quebec Advanced Transportation Institute (ITAQ)
Providence: Quebec, Canada
ICE: Biodiesel (B20)
</PRE>
The Quebec Advanced Transportation Institute (ITAQ) team wants to
demonstrate a fun to drive eco-friendly car. The SMART is a production
vehicle which, when powered with biofuels, can deliver substantial
reductions in climate change emissions and air quality improvements.
Quebec hosts one the largest biodiesel producers in North America
using feedstock mainly from recycled source and this is an important
R&D niche for the ITAQ.
Hugo Marsolais explains the smart Passion and how of biodiesel made from
used vegetable oil helps the environment.
The engine is low, behind the rear bumper.
When the top is up, there is a tall luggage space behind the seats.
The interior feels roomy, mostly because the windshield is well forward.
The mirrors and windows are electric.
And this model has air conditioning.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard Rau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> before I take the plunge I need to ask about the ability of DCDC
> converters like this to also address the needs of the
> auxiliary battery.
> I assume that the 13.5V 300W or 500W output would cause a
> lot of gassing toward the end of charge.
13.5V would not cause any gassing at all as it is a pretty nominal float
voltage for lead acid batteries. It is also too low for a vehicle's 12V
system.
The output of the 13.5V Astrodyne's is adjustable from 12-15V, and you
would want to adjust it to something like 14.4-14.7V to mimic the
original vehicle's 12V system with alternator. This is too high of a
voltage to leave connected to the battery continuously, so you would
either configure the system to turn off the DC/DC when not driving, or
to drop the voltage setting to about 13.2-13.5V when not driving.
It looks like the PSP's output can only be trimmed by a pot, so unless
you were willing to hack into it to permit remote switching between 2
trim points (use an external relay to put an appropriate resistor in
parallel with the unit's pot to lower the setpoint when the vehicle is
off) they would only be suitable for a system that runs the DC/DC only
while driving.
> Should I be looking only at DCDC Converters *with* battery
> charging capabilities?
About the only battery charging capability you can look for is the type
of behaviour that the unit exhibits in response to an overload
condition. Constant current is what you want for battery charging; the
PSP500 & 1000 provide this, while the PSP300 claims to do constant
voltage (suspect this is a typo that should read constant current since
constant voltage makes no sense to me). The SP500 does foldback current
limiting, which might work OK for battery charging also.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 10:19:58 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Jim Hightower agitates for Plug-ins
Jim Hightower muckraker from Austin, Texas devoted his four page newsletter
"The Hightower Lowdown" to the plug-in cause with his article "While the
technology for hydrogen is still being developed A City in Texas stats
smart-energy
driving" He also mentions the Tzero and dispels the golf cart image.
Excerpt
"If our leaders are too corrupted, too weak, and too unimaginative to cut
America (and utlimately the world) free of our tether to Big Oil, then we
must do
it ourselves. A good place to begin is for us to start buying cars, trucks,
and other vehicles that get 500 miles per gallon.
Whoa, Hightower, there you go again, breathing some sort of strange fumes
and
talking nonsense! 500 mgg? That's science-fiction stuff.
No. It's in the hear and now, using two affordable, available technologies
that are already achieving amazing fuel economy on America's roads and
cutting
pollutants to litttle or zero. Combined, the two technoloogies create the
"plug-in, flexible-fuel hybrid vehicles," for which a more manageable
monkiker
would be "gasolnine optional," or GO cars.>>>>
Under his Do Something tips, he urges readers to go to austinenergy.com for
a
25 page report and to get their local city council to adopt the Austin "Gas
Optional" incentive program. He also urges readers to get involved with
California Cars Initiative.
This issue is not available online, but you can subscribe and try to get
this
May issue. www.jimhightower.com. Meanwhile I will copy it if any of you
want to see the whole thing.
Amanda
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #47: Team Profile: The Lorax
There are some cars at the Tour that just turn heads year after year, and this
is one of them. I asked Steve Leatherman to tell me what was new.
This year they have 17 batteries from Eagle-Pricher to drive the 50 horsepower
Solectria AC motor, one more battery than last year. They also added the roll
bar to meet Tour de Sol safety rules. "We've been driving it out more in
public, in the local area. We drive it about twice a week, most time taking
someone with us." But it isn't much of a chick car. "Mostly it's the 30-plus
women who say `Oh, look at that cute car'. Then the guys say, `What the hell
is that thing?' Some people don't hear anything running. `What does that
thing run on? Is it electric?' Yup. Some think the little solar panel in the
back powers the car."
It isn't easy to get in or out of. "It fits like a shoe. Once you are in, you
are THERE!"
Does only having three wheels make the handling odd? "Surprisingly not. The
center of gravity is relatively low."
Next year they want to put a roof on the car, with flexible photo cells.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #48: Photos - The Lorax
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005/photos_010.html
The Lorax
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: The Lorax
Vehicle Number: 45
Team Name: Methacton Electric Car Club
State: Pennsylvania
Electric: 1999 "Lomax" kit car conversion, (Battery: Eagle-Pricher PbA)
</PRE>
The Methacton Electric Car Club is made up of males and females
ranging from 9th to 12th grades. Our mission is to explore alternative
energy resources one car at a time while providing hands-on learning
about alternate power sources for science, engineering, and trade
students and the general public. In addition to building a vehicle the
team created computer generated fundraising materials, and community
outreach.
Open wide and say "ahhhhhhh".
The roll bar and the flashing light that sits above it are new this year.
A view from the other side, with the rain cover on.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There used to be a stunt bike from the 1960's or 1970's that had the
rear wheel turn by twisting the seat. I have ridden one once. You
could crab the bike sideways, and do really tight U-turns, very fun.
You had to be careful, though, like all rear steer vehicles it tended
to have positive feedback (turning tended to make it want to turn
even more) and it was prone to spin out and dump the rider --
especially when the spring that was supposed to nominally hold the
rear wheel straight was missing! So please be careful testing your
machine!
--- Stu and Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Garage floor experiment - FTC (Free to Caster) steering.
>
> I was placing the front end of my hybrid FTC trike to the rear
> drive
> section. The trike has a horizontal lean axis.
>
> I was on my knees on the smooth garage floor when I observed the
> following:
>
> As I tilted the seat to the right I noticed that the rear
> end 'countersteered' to the left. In fact, having the rear steer to
> the left, is correct for a right turn (not countersteer).
>
> What I am trying to say is that I expected the rear to remain
> straight while the front just leaned. I did not expect, the rear to
> torque and thus to 'articulate' to help make a turn. This effect
> reminds me of a rear steered fire engine.
>
> I was somewhat pleasantly surprised, and I look forward to test
> riding it.
>
> BTW I am going to a more vertical less trail front fork angle.
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Rush wrote:
It is a 96 S-10, that was owned by APS in Phoenix and used as a
meter reader. It was an Electicar AC conversion and never worked
well at all.
Yep! That sounds like U.S. Electricar all right! :-(
Eh, if anyone doesn't want their US Electricar I will be more than
willing to take it off their hands.
50kw AC is nothing to sneeze at. And we're getting pretty good at
keeping these things going. There is a lot of knowledge out there, you
just need to know where to look.
Chris
--- End Message ---
