EV Digest 4380
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) On Welding
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Detroit Electric on Ebay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: On Welding
by "darren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV conversion tiny car _ Battery Trailer required?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: General Radio Type W20H 220v dual variac on one shaft. What can
this baby do
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: General Radio Type W20H 220v dual variac on one shaft. What
can this baby do?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: General Radio Type W20H 220v dual variac on one shaft. What can this
baby do
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Driving in final gear did not work.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: You need a welder
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Sad State of EV eCommerce (was: Where is the best buy on ADC
motors)
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Fw: EV conversion tiny car _ Battery Trailer required?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Zilla Powered Blue Meanie Lights up the Crowd (and its tires)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EVT Equinox 168 for sale. Contact owner.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Sad State of EV eCommerce (was: Where is the best buy on ADC motors)
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: The tantalizing high voltage future
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EV used to Promote ICE Racing
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Fwd: Re: EV Transmissions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Fwd: Re: EV Transmissions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Sad State of EV eCommerce (was: Where is the best buy on ADC motors)
by "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: You need a welder
by jimevdl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Fwd: Re: EV Transmissions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Sad State of EV eCommerce (was: Where is the best buy on ADC motors)
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Last year I took a welding course, specifically so that I could
(eventually) build an EV. In the end, I bought a Victor gas setup.
Here's my take. I'm sure I made some mistakes, and there will be
differences of opinion, but here goes:
Gas advantages:
* Easy to weld thin sheet / tubing (for frames)
* Cuts steel very quickly
* Heating and bending; don't underestimate the handiness of heating
steel red hot and bending it into a needed shape.
* More versatile than any other type of welder.
* Relatively inexpensive
* "Duty cycle" is at least 7 hours (you gas guys know what I mean), if
you have the oxygen available.
Gas disadvantages:
* Considerably more practice is needed. I wouldn't be surprised if > 40
hours of practice are needed for welds that are strong, but not
necessarily pretty. Also, it takes a bit to get used to different
thicknesses of metals, and the heat input required to either melt them,
or preventing holes from being blown in them by the torch.
* Transportation of cylinders requires a pickup truck
* Much larger "heat affected zone" of the welds
* Welding aluminum / stainless requires special fluxes. Not even sure
you can weld stainless with gas. Of course, if you weld aluminum or
stainless with a mig/tig, you need aluminum or stainless wire / rod,
also, unless it's a fusion weld.
* Gas welding is less common, meaning you won't find welding rod (or
other supplies) at Lowe's or Home Depot.
* Much slower
MIG/TIG advantages:
* Generally easier to learn than gas, though I think MIG is easier than TIG.
* Equipment and materials are relatively easy to find
* Clean, professional looking welds are more easily achieved
* MIG equipment is relatively inexpensive
* Welding speed is faster
MIG/TIG disadvantages:
* TIG welders are pricey
* Duty cycle sucks. Unless you get a big $$$ welder, you'll be welding
3-5 minutes, max out of a 10 minute cycle.
* For TIG and some MIG, you still have to transport gas cylinders,
though it's smaller bottles of inert gas.
* You *might* have to beef up your wiring to provide enough current,
especially with the larger models
* Heating / bending / cutting is not possible (and plasma cutters are
very expensive)
* Powerful UV rays are emitted, which can cause sunburn, eyeburn, and
skin cancer. Protective gear is always necessary for any welding, but
you really need to cover exposed skin with the electric methods. I got
a bad sunburn on my neck when I was stick welding, where my collar
wasn't completely closed below my face shield.
Stick welding: Cheap, takes practice, but generally only good for
thicker metal (3/8" and up)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4551912191&category=6472
Seems tiny url's are eliminated by the the group software. Lawrence
Rhodes..
----- Original Message -----
From: bob burnside
To: Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 9:42 PM
Subject: Did you see
this?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
gas setup is a must have for any welder
I have a big take setup
&
a small portable set
+ the hobart 135 mig, it will & has welded everything on my 4x4 rockcrawlers
tig I will get latter when I auctully do welding that requires a tig,
meantime my buddy tig welds for a living, works at a fruit canaey wels SS
tubing/sheet & he does all my tig welding nedds now.
he is also getting a new gas setup, the hinson I think it's called, like a
tig in a tourch setup, cuts like a plasma..........
Thank You
................................
www.12voltguy.com
SeaBass44/~Darren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 8:17 AM
Subject: On Welding
Last year I took a welding course, specifically so that I could
(eventually) build an EV. In the end, I bought a Victor gas setup.
Here's my take. I'm sure I made some mistakes, and there will be
differences of opinion, but here goes:
Gas advantages:
* Easy to weld thin sheet / tubing (for frames)
* Cuts steel very quickly
* Heating and bending; don't underestimate the handiness of heating steel
red hot and bending it into a needed shape.
* More versatile than any other type of welder.
* Relatively inexpensive
* "Duty cycle" is at least 7 hours (you gas guys know what I mean), if you
have the oxygen available.
Gas disadvantages:
* Considerably more practice is needed. I wouldn't be surprised if > 40
hours of practice are needed for welds that are strong, but not
necessarily pretty. Also, it takes a bit to get used to different
thicknesses of metals, and the heat input required to either melt them, or
preventing holes from being blown in them by the torch.
* Transportation of cylinders requires a pickup truck
* Much larger "heat affected zone" of the welds
* Welding aluminum / stainless requires special fluxes. Not even sure you
can weld stainless with gas. Of course, if you weld aluminum or stainless
with a mig/tig, you need aluminum or stainless wire / rod, also, unless
it's a fusion weld.
* Gas welding is less common, meaning you won't find welding rod (or other
supplies) at Lowe's or Home Depot.
* Much slower
MIG/TIG advantages:
* Generally easier to learn than gas, though I think MIG is easier than
TIG.
* Equipment and materials are relatively easy to find
* Clean, professional looking welds are more easily achieved
* MIG equipment is relatively inexpensive
* Welding speed is faster
MIG/TIG disadvantages:
* TIG welders are pricey
* Duty cycle sucks. Unless you get a big $$$ welder, you'll be welding
3-5 minutes, max out of a 10 minute cycle.
* For TIG and some MIG, you still have to transport gas cylinders, though
it's smaller bottles of inert gas.
* You *might* have to beef up your wiring to provide enough current,
especially with the larger models
* Heating / bending / cutting is not possible (and plasma cutters are very
expensive)
* Powerful UV rays are emitted, which can cause sunburn, eyeburn, and skin
cancer. Protective gear is always necessary for any welding, but you
really need to cover exposed skin with the electric methods. I got a bad
sunburn on my neck when I was stick welding, where my collar wasn't
completely closed below my face shield.
Stick welding: Cheap, takes practice, but generally only good for thicker
metal (3/8" and up)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might try to use sealed batteries. It would be more expensive bur since
your car is so small it might work better. A Fiat 600 can go maybe 50 miles
with 10 batteries. Flooded will take you farther per weight but you don't
get high enough voltage for performance. What is your budget? If it is
high enough Sealed might be the way to go. Less battery weight and a
powerful charger is another way to go. It's not the range it's the charging
time. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lance Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "submissions EV list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 8:09 PM
Subject: EV conversion tiny car _ Battery Trailer required?
I am considering converting a Triumph Spitfire to an EV. After calculating
a few typical mission profiles, I find that the most typical mission
consumes 5 kWhrs of energy, 25 minutes run time, <20 miles. The largest
typical profile consumes about 10 kWhrs, 35 minutes, 30 miles. There is
perhaps one other mission that would require double that amount of energy,
say <20 kWhrs 60 minutes, 50 miles.
The Triumph Spitfire is a really tiny car. A few examples that I know of
have used 9, 13 or 14 each 12V flooded lead acid batteries. I figure that
an operationally conservative design might have perhaps 12 each batteries
without undue braille parking or maintenance issues. 12 each Flooded lead
acid batteries might hold 10 kWhrs at the 1 hour rate. Is this enough for
the 10Kwhr mission or should more energy be available for battery age or
other contingencies?
Now, for the bigger missions. Is a trailer with and identically sized
battery back to the one in the car, a practical range extender? I figure
that the trailer pack would be connected in parallel to the car pack.
Either pack would be recharged independantly of the other, since the
trailer pack would be less used. I think just a simple lightweight
utility trailer might work with a suitable enclosure. Such a trailer
might carry 800 to 1,000 lbs of batteries (12 each @ 70 lbs or so). I'm
guessing this sort of weight would require it own braking system.
Do listers use these sorts of trailer? Where can I find out more about
this approach?
Best regards
Lance Smith Bat Area Ca.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
I may be wrong about this (Lee will certainly correct me), but as I
understand it, variacs are NOT isolated like normal transformers. The
outputs of a variac are neutral and hot, just like a normal wall
outlet. When you use a bridge rectifier, the minus (-) output is
"connected" to the power company's neutral line.
If you connect them in series to get a 3-wire output, you're essentially
shorting the output of the variacs. You'll need an isolation
transformer either on the input or the output of the variacs.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Any advantage to splitting up the pack and using one variac output on
half the pack. At this point is the two variacs on one shaft a
hindrance. IE: you can't fine tune either one. LR.......
----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Marino"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: General Radio Type W20H 220v dual variac on one shaft.
What can this baby do
You can certainly parallel the outputs ( and inputs) to get twice the
current, as long as the connections are accessible,
You probably won't be able to get 16 amps DC out safely, though.
There are two reasons:
1. The two variac sections may not share the load equally. I am
using a similar setup (two 120V sections of one shaft in parallel)
and, to make sure the currents were similar in each section, I added
some resistance ( in my case, a precision 10 watt, 0.05 ohm power
resistor) in series with the output of each section.
This does two things: it will tend to equalize the current a bit,
and it gives you a way to easily measure the current in each section.
( Measure the voltage drop across each resistor and compare them),
In my case, one section supplies about 60% of the current. This was
even worse before I cleaned off the contact wiper areas on the
coils. If they're not equal, your maximum total current will be less
than twice the individual rated current.
As a bonus, adding resistance will make it easier to adjust battery
charging current (and make the current a little more stable as the
batteries charge).
2, The 8 amp rating for each section is AC current - for resistive
loads ( power factor = 1.0) Your power factor will be much lower
since you are rectifying it to get rippling DC. Your actual current
will be in short bursts 120 times a second as the rectified rippling
DC exceeds the pack voltage. ( That's for a full-wave bridge
rectifier - and much worse for a half wave rectifies ( single diode))
If your RMS current is, for example, twice ( just a guess) what the
average( DC) current is, you can only draw 4 amps DC from each
section ( 8 amps DC total charging current into your batteries)
without exceeding the intended variac heating.
You can always add fan cooling to allow somewhat higher currents,
though.
Any ideas out there to increase the power factor in the variac? Will
adding capacitance across the variac inputs help??
Phil
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Subject: General Radio Type W20H 220v dual variac on one shaft.
What can this baby do?
Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 19:07:10 -0700
Two 8 amp 220 variac's on one shaft. Can I pump the same 220v line
in to both and get 16 amps at 300v? These are rated at 8 amps
each. Can I parallel the output?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on
how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you sure it's not just two 110V variacs on one shaft, making a 220V
variac?
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Two 8 amp 220 variac's on one shaft. Can I pump the same 220v line in
to both and get 16 amps at 300v? These are rated at 8 amps each. Can
I parallel the output?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>>> Two 8 amp 220 variacs on one shaft. Can I pump the same 220v line
>>> into both and get 16 amps at 300v? These are rated at 8 amps each.
>>> Can I parallel the outputs?
Lee Hart replied:
>> I wouldn't. Unless they are perfectly synchronized, they can "fight"
>> each other, and produce a large fault current.
Philip Marino wrote:
> OR, rectify each section's output individually before combining.
> Then they can't fight each other and produce a large fault current.
> The worst that can happen is that one section takes all of the load.
True; that might work. But if the knobs weren't precisely matched, so
that one was delivering slightly more voltage, then it delivers *ALL*
the load current. If you have an ammeter that only indicates total
output current, then one variac is supplying double its rated current,
and the other nothing. So you still need to fuse each variac's sliding
terminal separately with a fuse appropriate for its ratings.
I think I would look to do some "horse trading". Trade someone your two
240vac 8amp variacs for a single 240vac 16amp variac.
--
"*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world."
-- Mahatma Ghandi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually there are some really heavy hitter Ev drag folks that think you
should launch in the highest gear you can....
That of course puts the largest stresses on the motors and
controllers....
I rather lauch with the Least amps I can. And save all those watts for the
far end of the track...where I can actually use them.
Thanks Roland for the Practical reason for not launch in the highest gear
you can...
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 9:55 PM
Subject: Driving in final gear did not work.
I been driving my EV now for about 30 years. The commentator and brushes
been running find to about a month ago. I started to test the EV with
driving in only the final gear or 1 : 1 ratio and a differential gear of
5.57 and shut off the idle control to see if I could modified the EV with
out a clutch and with transmission that has only forward, neutral reverse.
Driving for about a month starting out in 5.57:1 gear cause brush burn in
marks across the commentator. This was cause by 400 amp start ups
underload. There are several four sets of brush burn in lines across the
commentator.
After I turn the commentator and undercut and get a new set of $500.00
silver-carbon compound brushes from the brush guy at
http://www.repcoinc.com<http://www.repcoinc.com/>. When I was on the phone
with him, I can hear him flip out on the cost of these brushes which were
only made for 6 GE motors!
I going to put it back in idle control. This allows the motor to come up to
about 500 rpm which only has a starting load of 40 to 60 amps. Used the
starting gear of 19.5:1 from 0 to 10 mph and 13.5:1 from 10 to 20 mph like I
have been doing for the last 30 years except for the last month.
Therefore, it was not good to start a EV without a transmission and start up
under load. Your commentator will not last as long. Your drag people know
this, where they have to turn or condition the commentator after every run.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
> Bill, you said a MIG was easier than a TIG, but you also said a TIG
> was slower. It seems slower would be easier to learn and control --
> so why is MIG easier? How much harder would you say TIG is?
MIG can done with one hand.. TIG takes 2 hands and a foot! It's easy
once you get used to it.
MIG is very, very easy. You can rent one from Home Depot. Get a
piece of metal and cut it up and practice welding it back together.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You have to remember; these business don't have millions of dollars in
sales to pay for fancy website design. Besides, does a fancy website
mean better products? I find just the opposite to be true; the flashier
the website, the more expensive the products and the worse the customer
service!
John beat me to the punch on this one. I'd echo what he said (except
for using Front Page) and add that as things sit now I'm not getting
good customer service.
I placed an order with one of the better known sites and got an email
a few days later saying one of the three items was out of stock, one
they don't carry anymore and one that isn't even in production but
would I be interested in the more expensive item? I asked a question
about that other item and got, "I don't know. You'll have to ask tech
and they're out for the week." Okay, so I wait for several days then
send my question into tech. More than two weeks later and I still
haven't heard back from them.
The part that was backordered did arrive but in the mean time the
price went up about 30% and I was not informed of this.
Maybe it's because I'm in the business and my view of how ecommerce
should work is distorted but it seems to me that some EV savvy soul
could really put the squeeze on the current players. (No pun
intended.)
This thread has other similarities to the welding thread than John
pointed out. One is there are more and more EVers coming into this
who aren't Phd's in electrical theory. EVDL is a great place to come
for answers but they need clear, informative, secured places to do
business with too.
In my years of teaching I've noticed fewer and fewer students feel
comfortable communicating face to face and over the phone. Yet these
same students will spend hours doing email and instant messaging.
This and other first hand experiences tell me if the current players
don't wake up and smell the coffee someone else will provide much
needed services to our growing EV community.
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.rqriley.com/cent.html This vehicle uses the Spitfire chassis. I
noticed the Spitfires gained weight into the seventies. A 1963 is 1500
pounds as an ICE. The 74' is 1700 pounds.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/206.html This car is 200 pounds lighter than
your car. Adding 1 battery would make it more or less simular in battery
ratio. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "submissions EV list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: EV conversion tiny car _ Battery Trailer required?
You might try to use sealed batteries. It would be more expensive bur
since your car is so small it might work better. A Fiat 600 can go maybe
50 miles with 10 batteries. Flooded will take you farther per weight but
you don't get high enough voltage for performance. What is your budget?
If it is high enough Sealed might be the way to go. Less battery weight
and a powerful charger is another way to go. It's not the range it's the
charging time. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lance Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "submissions EV list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 8:09 PM
Subject: EV conversion tiny car _ Battery Trailer required?
I am considering converting a Triumph Spitfire to an EV. After
calculating a few typical mission profiles, I find that the most typical
mission consumes 5 kWhrs of energy, 25 minutes run time, <20 miles. The
largest typical profile consumes about 10 kWhrs, 35 minutes, 30 miles.
There is perhaps one other mission that would require double that amount
of energy, say <20 kWhrs 60 minutes, 50 miles.
The Triumph Spitfire is a really tiny car. A few examples that I know of
have used 9, 13 or 14 each 12V flooded lead acid batteries. I figure that
an operationally conservative design might have perhaps 12 each batteries
without undue braille parking or maintenance issues. 12 each Flooded lead
acid batteries might hold 10 kWhrs at the 1 hour rate. Is this enough for
the 10Kwhr mission or should more energy be available for battery age or
other contingencies?
Now, for the bigger missions. Is a trailer with and identically sized
battery back to the one in the car, a practical range extender? I figure
that the trailer pack would be connected in parallel to the car pack.
Either pack would be recharged independantly of the other, since the
trailer pack would be less used. I think just a simple lightweight
utility trailer might work with a suitable enclosure. Such a trailer
might carry 800 to 1,000 lbs of batteries (12 each @ 70 lbs or so). I'm
guessing this sort of weight would require it own braking system.
Do listers use these sorts of trailer? Where can I find out more about
this approach?
Best regards
Lance Smith Bat Area Ca.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
spinning their fingers in that universal hotrod sign language that says,
"Light 'em up." This was more than I could take, and so down went my right
foot.
Seems the remote for John's Devil Horns has been found. LR..........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
- It is an EVT Equinox 168, purchased September 2004. Green & White,
Vespa-looking but plastic rather than metal body. Odometer reading
125.4 miles, but driven less than 100 miles for pleasure. :(
(test-driven 2+ miles before purchase, then test-driven around 24
miles to drain batteries last December when I had the first
battery/charger problems). Appears to be brand new but on closer
inspection you will see cracks/scratches - it got toppled during a
storm.
As I told Otmar - I really loved this scooter, for the very brief
time and few rides I had, but the problems have made me a bit
paranoid about driving it. And now that I have this new job, even if
the scooter were working perfectly, I won't drive it around the way I
had anticipated, so it will sit in my alley for weeks at a time. If
I can sell it to someone who can (and will) use it, I'm happy.
Todd of thezero has replaced the charger and it is working well now.
Asking price: $1900 ($1000 less than what I paid for it, brand new.
Includes the "trunk." Has only 168 miles on it.)
Contact: Audrey Wong
Following is my home info, which is best way to reach me.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: 408/737-9950
Location: Sunnyvale, near El Camino/Bernardo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Almost the same with Nedra. I joined and they took my money and waited a
couple of months to get my card and nothing. I went back to the site and it
did not even work for a couple of weeks. I contacted them via email and they
said they were restructuring. That was a couple of months ago and still no
card. I need my card to show when I start racing. Seems really
unprofessional to me.
Jack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mreish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: Sad State of EV eCommerce (was: Where is the best buy on ADC
motors)
>You have to remember; these business don't have millions of dollars in
sales to pay for fancy website design. Besides, does a fancy website
mean better products? I find just the opposite to be true; the flashier
the website, the more expensive the products and the worse the customer
service!
John beat me to the punch on this one. I'd echo what he said (except for
using Front Page) and add that as things sit now I'm not getting good
customer service.
I placed an order with one of the better known sites and got an email a
few days later saying one of the three items was out of stock, one they
don't carry anymore and one that isn't even in production but would I be
interested in the more expensive item? I asked a question about that
other item and got, "I don't know. You'll have to ask tech and they're out
for the week." Okay, so I wait for several days then send my question
into tech. More than two weeks later and I still haven't heard back from
them.
The part that was backordered did arrive but in the mean time the price
went up about 30% and I was not informed of this.
Maybe it's because I'm in the business and my view of how ecommerce should
work is distorted but it seems to me that some EV savvy soul could really
put the squeeze on the current players. (No pun intended.)
This thread has other similarities to the welding thread than John pointed
out. One is there are more and more EVers coming into this who aren't
Phd's in electrical theory. EVDL is a great place to come for answers but
they need clear, informative, secured places to do business with too.
In my years of teaching I've noticed fewer and fewer students feel
comfortable communicating face to face and over the phone. Yet these same
students will spend hours doing email and instant messaging.
This and other first hand experiences tell me if the current players don't
wake up and smell the coffee someone else will provide much needed
services to our growing EV community.
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do not use 100Ah cells in a vehicle - you will be disappointed
(unless it is light 3 wheeler and high voltage system).
You *will* overstress them and ruin in short order.
TS cells require 0.3-0.5C draw for happy life, no more.
Specs say they can be discharged at higher rates. Yes, they can,
but associated voltage sag and internal heating become
problemaric for usefulness of such a rate. Specs won't
mention that.
200Ah is standard size for a vehicle, this has been tested.
Also, careful: TS as a manufacturer is just maturing and quality
of raw cells is wery uneven, with early mortality cases not
too uncommon.
In general:
*DON'T* plan to use LiIon battery unless you at least have means
to see what individual cells are doing. Once you can observe
their behavior while driving and charging you:
1. will be very surprised
2. will have no idea how did you dare to use liions
without monitoring system. It's literally like finding
and patching a hole in your wallet.
Very bad experience of some of us (myself included)
with particular TS cells is another story.
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
At 02:28 PM 5/22/2005, Ryan Stotts wrote:
Now just for fun, since these are a bit more conventional compared to
the Kokams, I figured out how many would fit, the weight, and the pack
voltage..
http://www.metricmind.com/battery.htm
The TS-LP6163A in particular. It's roughly 2" thick, 4.5" wide, and
7.5" tall and weighs 3 lbs. Unfortunately, it's only 3.6 volts.
Those are the ThunderSky cells.
Right now, my opinion of them isn't printable in public.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sportscar is the official SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) magazine
for members.
Here is some text from an ad:
"Shockwrench: Don Williams of the Ohio State University found
that the shocks on the world speed record shattering OSU Buckeye
Bullet were too tightly packaged for a normal spanner."
They don't call out that the Bullet was an electric race car, but it
was still great to see an electric used for advertising.
<http://www.buckeyebullet.com>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm also interested in how this might work out.
keith vansickle wrote:
--- Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--- keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 18:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: EV Transmissions
To: [email protected]
The Powerglide used in the 1960-1969 Chevy
Corvairs
is quite small.
If I remember correctly the Powerglide had a front
and rear pump, which was somewhat unusual.
dont know but I will have a student take it apart and
see what'in it since it is somewhat off topic I will
report back if anyone responds and is interested
keith
The
rear pump was driven by the drive shaft. Most
automatics only have a front pump driven by the
torque converter. With a Powerglide you could coast
in neutral with the engine off, then drop it
in gear and start the engine like a standard. With
any automatic you have to keep the pump moving
to maintain pressure to keep it in gear. Is there a
way to use electric motors to actuate the
bands of an automatic and avoid the whole hydraulic
control issue? Then again you'd also have to
find a way to keep the pistons behind the clutch
packs engaged. And you'd still need fluid
splashing around for lubrication.
Dave Cover
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did you get any pricing information?
Evan Tuer wrote:
On 5/19/05, Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Jerry, ZF make a 2-speed, solenoid operated gearbox for machine
tools. Might be useful, might not..
http://www.daviesmarketing.com/full_release.asp?compnameid=44&releaseid=506
I asked for more data. There are several versions of the gearbox,
with sizes from "car size" up to "enormous".
Example data of the smallest unit:
2k120, input torque 140NM max, 8000RPM, weighs 30kG, ratios available
1.00 and 3.16/4.0/4.91, switches using a 24V, 120W solenoid.
Next biggest:
2k250, input torque 400NM max, 6300RPM, weighs 62KG, ratios available
1.00 and 3.17/4.0/5.5, switches using a 24V, 120W solenoid.
The ratios are a bit far apart, and the units are pretty heavy, but it
might work for some application I suppose.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack (and other NEDRA members),
I'm sorry to hear you're frustrated with NEDRA. I can understand your
frustration, and we are working to get things in order.
You called NEDRA unprofessional, and the unfortunate fact is that we
are, in the sense that NEDRA has no paid staff, and all the people
working behind the scenes at NEDRA do so of their own time. We do it
because we believe in the sport and want it to succeed. However, we all
have busy lives with other commitments, and sometimes things get
shuffled and reprioritized. Many of us on the NEDRA board are filling
multiple roles. We do what we can when we can, but some of the tasks
take longer than it would take if NEDRA were a "professional"
organization with a full-time (or even part-time) paid staff.
Organizing and putting on races is an enormous time commitment for some
individuals. We ask for volunteers, but few have come forward to
volunteer their time.
I am not saying this to evoke sympathy or offer an excuse. I fully
admit that I and NEDRA have been remiss in some areas and have dragged
some processes out longer than necessary. We are working to change
that. Please be patient and understanding.
To address a few of your concerns: you CAN race if you are a member in
good standing regardless of whether you have your membership card.
Before the races this year, the race coordinators will have current
membership lists, and those on the list may race without presenting a
card. Those who are not members may purchase a membership at the
racetrack (of a NEDRA-sponsored race) on race day (before the race
begins).
As for the website, again, we are on a limited budget, and cannot afford
a 24/7/365 always-guaranteed-up hosting service. The one we chose has a
reasonable reliability record, and we have had only one major downtime
in the past several years, and this was from 3/16-3/18, three days. If
it was indeed down for weeks (as you stated), then it was down without
our knowledge. If so, please let me or others at NEDRA know which
timeframe so that we can work with our hosting service to make sure that
the site's availability can be improved.
Again, I ask for all NEDRA members' patience and understanding in this
area. Please consider volunteering if you are so inclined. All help is
appreciated! In the meantime, we are taking small, incremental steps
towards improving NEDRA as a whole, as we learn how to do things
(usually by learning how not to do them). Member feedback is always
welcome, especially if it is constructive.
Dean Grannes
NEDRA Membership Director/Secretary/Treasurer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bent the handle on my vise doing just what you suggested. It was a Big Rubber
Mallet, not a BFH, but it bent just the same (before the "hammer" crimper
indicated correct depth for the gauge I was using- 00). My vise may not be the
best, but it is the largest one that Sears sold at the time.
I then started using a 2lb hammer for my crimps. Worked OK, but nothing like a
lever-action crimper. Our local EV club president purchased a good (about $150
from Waytek) crimper and lets club members borrow it. Different dies can be
selected for various terminal sizes. Really slick. The best part about it, is
that you can crimp just about anywhere in the car, without having to rig an
anvil to beat against.
I would recommend one of these lever-action crimpers, or the home-made one made
from an old cutter I saw folks discussing. (my future flea market trips will
have these on the watch list)...
Regards, Jim Seibert
'92 Celica with 980 electric miles
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Rau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: May 22, 2005 1:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: You need a welder
Tony,
After reading that you are considering using your vise to supply the force
for crimping, I thought I should throw in my .02
The amount of force that a vise can give varies widely by brand, size, and
condition. I'd only trust it if you have a large heavy duty version. A
roller bearing thrust on the lead screw is helpful too. Or maybe just the
force of a BFH on the vise handle. (did I say that?) Remember, it takes a
lot of push from vise jaws to equal the impact force from hammer blows
directly to the crimper anvil.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tony McCormick
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 8:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: You need a welder
So, interesting discussion, I could be wrong but a MIG also requires a
220v circuit... don't have one of those either, all my heavy appliances
run on natural gas....
I have been a EV owner and "upgrader" for 5-6 years and have never
needed to weld anything. I prefer rivets for most jobs. Never needed
to build a battery box and wouldn't want to try aluminum welding as a
one time project. I am a passable Oxy/Acetylene welder when I need to
be... so far not on my EV, and I would have to rent the equipment in
any case. By the way, you can build a great, strong box with just rivets.
Frankly, I would love to own a MIG, but $$$ are an obstacle, so a hammer
crimper has been ordered and I'll use the suggestions and my vise to
drive it.
--Tony
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:27 PM
> Subject: You need a welder (was: Cable crimping)
>
>
>>
>> MIG welding is ridiculously simple to do. Can you use a hot
>> glue gun without burning yourself? If so, you can MIG weld. Folks act
>> like welding is some mystical black art, and only the "anointed ones"
>> that have the elusive "welding genes" are allowed to operate the
>> sacred welding equipment.
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These guys make 2 speed gearboxes for spindles, as well.
http://www.andantex.com/msd.html
Evan Tuer wrote:
Hi Jerry, ZF make a 2-speed, solenoid operated gearbox for machine
tools. Might be useful, might not..
http://www.daviesmarketing.com/full_release.asp?compnameid=44&releaseid=506
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Put me down as a volunteer is there is anything I can do from my home, Jack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: Sad State of EV eCommerce (was: Where is the best buy on ADC
motors)
Jack (and other NEDRA members),
I'm sorry to hear you're frustrated with NEDRA. I can understand your
frustration, and we are working to get things in order.
You called NEDRA unprofessional, and the unfortunate fact is that we
are, in the sense that NEDRA has no paid staff, and all the people
working behind the scenes at NEDRA do so of their own time. We do it
because we believe in the sport and want it to succeed. However, we all
have busy lives with other commitments, and sometimes things get
shuffled and reprioritized. Many of us on the NEDRA board are filling
multiple roles. We do what we can when we can, but some of the tasks
take longer than it would take if NEDRA were a "professional"
organization with a full-time (or even part-time) paid staff.
Organizing and putting on races is an enormous time commitment for some
individuals. We ask for volunteers, but few have come forward to
volunteer their time.
I am not saying this to evoke sympathy or offer an excuse. I fully
admit that I and NEDRA have been remiss in some areas and have dragged
some processes out longer than necessary. We are working to change
that. Please be patient and understanding.
To address a few of your concerns: you CAN race if you are a member in
good standing regardless of whether you have your membership card.
Before the races this year, the race coordinators will have current
membership lists, and those on the list may race without presenting a
card. Those who are not members may purchase a membership at the
racetrack (of a NEDRA-sponsored race) on race day (before the race
begins).
As for the website, again, we are on a limited budget, and cannot afford
a 24/7/365 always-guaranteed-up hosting service. The one we chose has a
reasonable reliability record, and we have had only one major downtime
in the past several years, and this was from 3/16-3/18, three days. If
it was indeed down for weeks (as you stated), then it was down without
our knowledge. If so, please let me or others at NEDRA know which
timeframe so that we can work with our hosting service to make sure that
the site's availability can be improved.
Again, I ask for all NEDRA members' patience and understanding in this
area. Please consider volunteering if you are so inclined. All help is
appreciated! In the meantime, we are taking small, incremental steps
towards improving NEDRA as a whole, as we learn how to do things
(usually by learning how not to do them). Member feedback is always
welcome, especially if it is constructive.
Dean Grannes
NEDRA Membership Director/Secretary/Treasurer
--- End Message ---
