EV Digest 4390
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: You need a welder
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) WAHOO!!!
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: You need a welder
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: You need a welder
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: WAHOO!!!
by "darren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cryogenic EVs? 120mpg Insight?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: help....where can i find data about ev
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Veggy oil into electricity
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Vas: Re: Seeking Controller for '98 Renault Express
by Seppo Lindborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: WAHOO!!!
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: WAHOO!!!
by "darren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: You need a welder
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Kokam powered Electric Imp does 58 miles at 65 mph
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: FL EAA & Grassroots EV Rally Pictures
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: You need a welder ///Come to Phoenix and win one
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) RE: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Text on Motors/Controllers
by Larry Skidmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Veggy oil into electricity
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
Good thought, Subaru WRX would be a candidate. Certainly the Mini has
quite a following.
The thing I would fear about most cars is "here today, gone
tomorrow."
Well, even platforms that have a "long" life change constantly. A kit
may never be valid for more than 2-3 model years.
My goal was to find a "new" car.. older classic cars like VWs and what
not often requiring some reconditioning. You also often get blow back
from the enthusists for "destroying" a classic car. Older cars lack the
safety and comfort features that most people want for their daily
driver. etc.
The kit is designed to be a turnkey system for a skill wrench turner or
production line to convert an EV. Basically the best way for a wider
audience than this list to have an EV until the auto industry builds them.
A good comparison is radical greater than 4 inch lift kits for trucks.
The market is only a few hundred to a thousand kits per model, and the
kit may require changes every few years to keep up with design changes.
The kits are usual simple but changing a critical part of the truck
requires extensive testing and care. Still at $5-7k a kit the few
manufacturers are doing well. The aftermarket is a tough place to
survive in, but it is possible.
Mark
How many 1st gen Honda civics do you see? How much do they
mechanically have in common with new Civics?
How many 1st gen Toyota Celicas do you see? How many parts do they
have in common with a new Celica? I think near zero.
Popularity does not equal longevity. I think enthusiast cars are a
better bet if you want to make a kit that is still viable 10 or 20
years from now.
For parts and maintenance, you are probably better off with a
conversion of an old VW bug than the Dodge Omni or Escort
conversions.
So in light of the enthusiast/longevity point of view, I'd think Mini
Coopers, Mustangs, and VW Beetles would be top candidates.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What about all those great Subaru vehicles being made today? They
make some
pretty good style and comfort in a compact sturdy mold. I know
that most
don't look at Subaru with much enthusiasm, but they've come a long
way in
the last few years and most are relatively small and compact as
well as
lightweight.
David Dymaxion wrote:
Here is an ad hoc list of cars still in production that I think
will
change less rapidly than others:
Trucks
Jeeps
VW Beetle
Audi TT
Ford Mustang
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--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 26 May 2005 09:46:28 -0700 (PDT), David Dymaxion
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Disclaimer: I have only welded a couple times, and poorly at that!
>
>Anyway, a book I have "Performance Welding" claims TIG is easier
>(contrary to the Miller site and informed opinions on this list). It
>gives some additional reasons I don't recall seeing in the debates so
>far:
This is like the whizzywig argument of easy to learn vs easy to use.
The vi editor is probably the most difficult editor there is to learn
but once learned, will run circles around any other text editor.
TIG is certainly easier to make a quality weld. With no foot pedal,
one strikes the arc and settles in. Not enough current yet to do much
melting. Get the filler rod in position. Mash the foot pedal to
start a puddle. Touch some rod to the edge of puddle. Sweep the arc
forward just a little to burn off the rod. Back off the pedal to let
the puddle mostly solidify. Repeat as often as needed. If you need
another grip on the filler rod or just need to move around, back all
the way off the pedal. The arc stays lit but little to no melting
occurs.
That's a real easy way to weld but learning how takes months. MIG is
easy to learn but more difficult to do. I found a self-darkening hood
to be essential so that I could see where the arc was going to start.
The gun seems always to get in the way of clear vision. I always seem
to be in a strain. The speed and ease of making a decent weld make up
for all that, IMHO.
>
> Flux core MIG tends to splatter more
Marginally more. Mask or anti-splatter gel the area if that matters
>
> You have to chip off slag every time you stop flux core MIG,
>might be 20 to 30 times on a tube weld
Not in my experience. When the feed rate is right there is just a
trickle of flux on the weld. Very seldom necessary to knock it off.
I just aim the wire a little forward of the last flux, start the arc,
momentarily flip it back to melt the previous weld and proceed.
>
> Smoke and the torch design makes MIG harder to see the weld
True, I guess. OTOH, one doesn't need the crystal-clear vision of the
puddle one does when TIGing.
>
> Once you start MIG you can't change speeds
True, I guess. Never had the need.
>
> One off welding (like race cars) tends to be TIG welded, MIG is
>faster for production
Two major reasons, neither having much to do with quality. One, it's
always been done that way. Two, people expect those visually
perfectly sculpted fillets on racing components. Robotic MIG is the
method of choice for production racing motorcycle frames.
>
> MIG welds start off cold for the first fraction of an inch
If that's an issue then one pre-heats. Just like with stick or TIG.
>
> MIG welds are more brittle at the start and stop, since the
>shielding gas gets turned on and off with the arc.
Not true, at least for the types of metals we're likely to be dealing
with. For flammable metals like magnesium, yes, some afterflow is
necessary until the metal cools below its ignition point. OTOH, I
don't think I've ever seen magnesium MIG welded.
The main reason for afterflow is to keep the tungsten electrode from
burning. Like most welders, I lift the torch once the puddle is
solid. The tungsten cools in the afterflow away from the joint.
The MIG puddle solidifies so rapidly that the little bit of gas
remaining in the hose after the trigger is released is more than
enough.
With either type, if brittleness is a problem, one post-heat treats.
This can be as simple as heating the whole work area with a rosebud to
ovenized stress relieving.
>
>Question, do any race bodies restrict using MIG vs. TIG vs. gas
>welding?
That would be silly. Regulations should be and usually are
performance-oriented rather than prescriptive (you must do this and
only this.) Some bodies that's I've raced with required periodic dye
penetrant or other NDT methods be used on the frame periodically.
Another requirement that I've seen is to require the frame tubes to be
pressurized. Any tiny cracks would let the nitrogen out, indicating
that further inspection is necessary.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
It's the only thing I could think of for a subject line :) But it fits.
Without an e-meter (soon to change), I've had to timidly attempt
mile-breaking runs for the 200sx. Until yesterday, my longest drive was
8 miles. So I've been quoting 8 miles to people when they ask the
range. I usually say 8-10 to *try* to make it send better. Checking
battery voltage after these types of runs have pointed toward this being
a pretty accurate range estimation.
Well, looks like that was pretty conservative. A co-worker's
brother-in-law was doing a school presentation on vehicles and
alternative fuels. To make a long story short, I was invited to show
the 200sx and talk for a few minutes to the class. Only problem - this
school is about 10 miles away. My brother lives just mile or so from
the school, so I knew I could charge there - but that still seemed risky.
This co-worker lives at the mid-point. So yesterday evening after work,
he took it home and I took his truck. He called me in the evening to
tell me he'd been out driving. Then he broke it to me: "Hey, I just
took your car about 15 miles"...!!!! He got 7 or so miles from home
when he realized how far he was. He said it wasn't as powerful near
home, but it made it. Now I don't intend on running the batteries that
low, but it's nice to know it will do it. I'll start telling people it
will go 15 miles - that might go over better. So that's wahoo #1.
Wahoo #2 has to do with the presentation. I talked to the class about
gas as a limited comodity, and how technology was enabling us to use
alternatives. I emphasized the importance of their education to prepare
them to be a part of this technology. I feel that the next 10 years
could bring some big changes with the auto-industry. I shared my
enthusiasm with the class towards this end.
Then came the fun part - showing them the car. I got a few questions
like "is it quiet", and "where do you plug in", as well as "how does it
work". I only had a few minutes since there were time slots for each
groups presentation. But they all seemed impressed. I told them they
could watch as I drove it off. I hop in, turn the key, the vacuum pump
comes to life giving it a low whir. I back up, and decide I needed to
validate my comment to them that it was pretty powerful. I layed on the
pedal, and I propelled forward. I had to navigate a corner getting out
of the teacher's parking lot where the students were standing. As I
again layed on the pedal around the corner, the tires broke loose, and I
fish-tailed around the corner in my best Hollywood get-away impression.
It was fun!
As I drove out of sight, I began to wonder if the teacher would be
ticked at my showy driving. After all, I'm supposed to be the
role-model here. Exactly what teachers (and everyone else) doesn't want
to see out of our kids - reckless driving. So when I got home, I called
the teacher. I thanked her for allowing me the time to speak, and I
also apologized for the showy exit. She rebuked me for apologizing, and
said she enjoyed it as much as the kids :)
Just a handful more of impressionable minds that now accepts electric
vehicles as a possibility.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and coming soon, *WARP MOTORS*!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've owned many many welding machines, and have
experiences will all types of welding and materials.
and have taught welding and fabricating at the
Southern California Institute of Architecture.(SCIArc)
There is no universal type of welding that will be
good for ever thing you want to do. Every process has
it's strengths ans weaknesses. some are more
appropriate than others. you will do the best you can
with the equipment you can afford. I have finally
paired my shop down from 30 welding machines to 14.
With the machines and processes that I have now I can
do about anything. There is always more than one right
way to join metal. We all have our preferances which
may not be right for someone else. With all the
structural weld failures you here about these days I'm
beginning to think that they had it right back in the
days of rivets.....
comments inserted,
--- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Disclaimer: I have only welded a couple times, and
> poorly at that!
>
> Anyway, a book I have "Performance Welding" claims
> TIG is easier
much easier if you know how to torch weld...
> (contrary to the Miller site and informed opinions
> on this list). It
> gives some additional reasons I don't recall seeing
> in the debates so
> far:
>
> Flux core MIG tends to splatter more
lots of spatter but the flux brushes off and the
spatter scrapes fairly easily.
>
> You have to chip off slag every time you stop
> flux core MIG,
> might be 20 to 30 times on a tube weld
If you are talking about welding two tubes together 20
or 30 stops is 18 to 26 too many. you should be able
to do it in 2 to 4. I move so quickly that when I stop
and reposition that I still have red hot weld. I only
brush it if it cools
>
> Smoke and the torch design makes MIG harder to
> see the weld
there should be no smoke from mig, only from flux
core. and you can still see the weld unless you have
your head in the smoke plume.
>
> Once you start MIG you can't change speeds
once the machine is dialed in there is no need to
change speeds, but you can vary the "heat" a bit by
adjusting the amount of "stick out" from the stinger
>
> One off welding (like race cars) tends to be TIG
> welded, MIG is
> faster for production
exotic metals tend to be tig welded, like chromoly.
but many race cars made from mild steel are mig
welded.
>
> MIG welds start off cold for the first fraction
> of an inch
simple machines do, but newer machines have adjustable
starting heat. they start hot then throttle back. the
new stick machines do the same as well. an experienced
welder will start a fraction of an inch outside the
joint and move in when the bead is penetrating. this
is a common practice with boat builders.
>
> MIG welds are more brittle at the start and
> stop, since the
> shielding gas gets turned on and off with the arc.
The better machines have pre flow and post flow.
however, I find that with even old machines there is
enough gas in the hose to give you a few seconds of
post flow. I generally give the trigger a slight
squeeze before I start welding to make sure the wire
is not stuck so I get a bit of preflow as well
>
> Question, do any race bodies restrict using MIG vs.
> TIG vs. gas
> welding?
I don't think so, there are mig machines now that have
a pulsed mig program that will give you a weld as good
as if not better than tig. and is what they call
operator friendly. (read easy) I've used a pulsed mig
machine on aluminum. the weld was so perfect it locked
like it was put in with a caulking gun. I tested the
weld and could find no apprecable annealing and the
weld was very ductile. I completly mangledthe piece of
metal and could not get it to fail
>
Gadget
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reverend Gadget wrote:
> The condition you state, thin sheets at 90 degrees, is
> the only one that really works well with a torch. try
> butting together two flat panels and the result will
> look like a weight lifters stomach. There is no one
> correct way to weld anything, and there are acceptions
> to every rule.
And here's an exception. Some old-school body guys and hot rodders do what
they call hammer welding. Butt two thin sheets edge-to-edge, tack them
together every few inches, then weld several inches with little filler rod.
While it's still hot, use a hammer and dolly or anvil to get a smooth, flat
weld. Weld, hammer, repeat. Works great for replacing rusted out sheet,
adding fender flares, etc.
However.
This completely ignores the stated reason for not using a torch for
bodywork. Most modern bodies use high strength steel. Gas welding is slow,
so heat spreads a *long* way from the weld. The heat-affected zone is huge.
In this context, the heat affected zone is your annealed or weakened zone.
Too many welders think that if you've stuck the two pieces together, you're
done. I've known a highly-qualified certified welder to use stainless rod
on a mild steel weldment because it looked pretty. (With no regard at all
for the properties of the unknown metallurgical soup in the weld.) I've had
a highly recommended welding consultant and instructor tell me the heat
affected zone is defined by what you can see surrounding the weld. (Nope,
it can extend much farther than that.)
Career tip: If you want to rake in huge sums of money as people swarm to
you hoping to get their problems solved, become an excellent metallurgist
*and* a seasoned certified welder. Trust me - the world will beat a path to
your door.
All that being said, I have to agree with Bill's original statement. If you
can use a calk gun, you can use a MIG welder. It really is that easy. Yes,
welding is more than laying a good bead. Joint design is equally or more
important. But if you understand what makes a good bolted joint, making a
good weld joint isn't really much of a stretch. Play with some scrap metal,
cut through some of your welds to see the penetration, then go weld up some
battery racks. Angle steel has no heat treatment, so it's hard to hurt it.
Oh, and one thing nobody has mentioned so far - don't breathe in the smoke!
Flux core wire has some nasty stuff in it, and even inert gas welding puts
vaporized metal in the air. I generally set up a box fan nearby to pull a
gentle breeze away from me. I hold my breath during the weld, wait a second
after stopping and the air is clear. This is especially important to
mention when you're teaching those ten-year-old girls. :^)
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why only 15 miles?
I am getting the idea 80-100 is the norm..........
Thank You
................................
www.12voltguy.com
SeaBass44/~Darren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:20 AM
Subject: WAHOO!!!
Hi Everyone,
It's the only thing I could think of for a subject line :) But it fits.
Without an e-meter (soon to change), I've had to timidly attempt
mile-breaking runs for the 200sx. Until yesterday, my longest drive was
8 miles. So I've been quoting 8 miles to people when they ask the
range. I usually say 8-10 to *try* to make it send better. Checking
battery voltage after these types of runs have pointed toward this being
a pretty accurate range estimation.
Well, looks like that was pretty conservative. A co-worker's
brother-in-law was doing a school presentation on vehicles and
alternative fuels. To make a long story short, I was invited to show
the 200sx and talk for a few minutes to the class. Only problem - this
school is about 10 miles away. My brother lives just mile or so from
the school, so I knew I could charge there - but that still seemed risky.
This co-worker lives at the mid-point. So yesterday evening after work,
he took it home and I took his truck. He called me in the evening to
tell me he'd been out driving. Then he broke it to me: "Hey, I just
took your car about 15 miles"...!!!! He got 7 or so miles from home
when he realized how far he was. He said it wasn't as powerful near
home, but it made it. Now I don't intend on running the batteries that
low, but it's nice to know it will do it. I'll start telling people it
will go 15 miles - that might go over better. So that's wahoo #1.
Wahoo #2 has to do with the presentation. I talked to the class about
gas as a limited comodity, and how technology was enabling us to use
alternatives. I emphasized the importance of their education to prepare
them to be a part of this technology. I feel that the next 10 years
could bring some big changes with the auto-industry. I shared my
enthusiasm with the class towards this end.
Then came the fun part - showing them the car. I got a few questions
like "is it quiet", and "where do you plug in", as well as "how does it
work". I only had a few minutes since there were time slots for each
groups presentation. But they all seemed impressed. I told them they
could watch as I drove it off. I hop in, turn the key, the vacuum pump
comes to life giving it a low whir. I back up, and decide I needed to
validate my comment to them that it was pretty powerful. I layed on the
pedal, and I propelled forward. I had to navigate a corner getting out
of the teacher's parking lot where the students were standing. As I
again layed on the pedal around the corner, the tires broke loose, and I
fish-tailed around the corner in my best Hollywood get-away impression.
It was fun!
As I drove out of sight, I began to wonder if the teacher would be
ticked at my showy driving. After all, I'm supposed to be the
role-model here. Exactly what teachers (and everyone else) doesn't want
to see out of our kids - reckless driving. So when I got home, I called
the teacher. I thanked her for allowing me the time to speak, and I
also apologized for the showy exit. She rebuked me for apologizing, and
said she enjoyed it as much as the kids :)
Just a handful more of impressionable minds that now accepts electric
vehicles as a possibility.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and coming soon, *WARP MOTORS*!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He claims a million miles on the motor and increased fuel economy. See URL
below. LR>........
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 6:25 AM
Subject: Cryogenic EVs?
Stumbled across this article about a guy who is using cryogenic
processes to drastically improve the life and efficiency of automotive
parts.
I've heard a lot about this in the past, and it has mostly been positive
information.
Would any of these techniques apply to EV's? I know making the brake
drums/disks last longer is a big plus in an EV as, without regen, you
wear your brakes out a lot faster, but could there be other areas that
this would be helpful?
http://www.kfor.com/Global/story.asp?S=3390503&nav=6uy5aHLq
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marco Gentilini wrote:
> Which do you hold both to be the good drivetrain?
> Induction motor?
> Batteries to the litio?
> and the change?
> If can give me suggestions and information on the data would make indeed me
> like!
This site has a lot of info:
http://www.electroauto.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is 10kw about 40 amps continous? LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Longworth T L C Orchids" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:53 AM
Subject: Veggy oil into electricity
You can charge your EV and produce your own power for your home using veg
oil in a diesel genset
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11754&item=7518195447&rd=1
http://www.utterpower.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here one more idea. Use a normal no-SepEx controller for the armature current
and on your dashboard fix a rotary switch which selects, say, 8, 6, 4 and 2
amps for field current. You start with 8 amps ('1st gear') and having gathered
some speed, turn the switch for 6 amps etc. A little like using a manual
gearbox. And of course you need -8 amps for reverse.
Seppo
>
> L�hett�j�: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> P�iv�: 26.05.2005 19:37
> Vastaanottaja: [email protected]
> Otsikko: Re: Seeking Controller for '98 Renault Express
>
> What about having one controller on both the field and armature in
> parallel. Once to 100% duty cycle, connect the armature directly to
> the battery, and continue to speed up by decreasing the field with
> the controller. You'd have to have some extra control circuitry to do
> the switching, increase the current to go faster at first then
> decrease to go faster, and to watch for overcurrent and overspeed
> (suddenly cutting out the current to the field can overspeed the
> motor).
>
> --- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > At 11:17 AM 26/05/05 +0100, Paul Compton wrote:
> > >-- Original message --
> > >From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > http://www.elektrosistem.com/ make a 96V sep-ex control.
> > > > It might be OK on a 108V nicad system, if anything will be a
> > problem I
> > > > think that the field current is a bit lower than this unit
> > expects. A
> > > > resitive load in parallel might be required.
> > >
> > >I remember Rob at AVT having this problem with a Zapi controller,
> > even
> > >after going back to Electrofit Zapi several times for
> > re-programming. It'
> > >almost certainly possible to reconnect the field coils in parallel
> > to
> > >better suit the available controllers.
> >
> > I know this would be expensive, but how about a pair of Zilla Z1k
> > controllers, one for the field, one for the armature?
> >
> > Otmar, I believe that you can run a pair together for dual motors,
> > would it
> > be horrendous to rewrite the code so that a pair can behave in a
> > suitable
> > manner for a sepex?
> >
> > I don't know if the regen current across the armature controller
> > would be a
> > problem?
> >
> > Alternatively someone may be game enough to build a unit that
> > monitors
> > motor RPMs and throttle position and generates two throttle command
> >
> > voltages for two seperate hairballs.
> >
> > Just throwing up an idea...
> >
> > James
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
80-100 miles per charge might be the norm for production EVs which often
used better batteries (like Nickel Metal Hydride or Nickel Cadmium), but
I suspect the "average" range of your typical conversions (which use
lead-acid) is much lower. In all the looking around I've done on the
EVAlbum and talking to other EVers, it seems to me like 30-50 miles is
more typical. And then there are those of us who struggle to break 20
miles per charge (think big, heavy Jeep with a crappy transmission ;-)
darren wrote:
Why only 15 miles?
I am getting the idea 80-100 is the norm..........
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thx, I read last week from a link on here of a VW bug conversion said 80
miles at 35mph 40 miles at 50mph at $1800 with everything, I might be off a
bit on my #s
is this wrong?
Thank You
................................
www.12voltguy.com
SeaBass44/~Darren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: WAHOO!!!
Hi,
80-100 miles per charge might be the norm for production EVs which often
used better batteries (like Nickel Metal Hydride or Nickel Cadmium), but I
suspect the "average" range of your typical conversions (which use
lead-acid) is much lower. In all the looking around I've done on the
EVAlbum and talking to other EVers, it seems to me like 30-50 miles is
more typical. And then there are those of us who struggle to break 20
miles per charge (think big, heavy Jeep with a crappy transmission ;-)
darren wrote:
Why only 15 miles?
I am getting the idea 80-100 is the norm..........
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
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At 09:46 AM 26/05/05 -0700, David Dymaxion wrote:
Disclaimer: I have only welded a couple times, and poorly at that!
Won't hold that against you.
Anyway, a book I have
I wasn't going to reply to this, but there are some points that no-one else
has mentioned (yet). This is from my experience in being an electric-welder
service tech for many years, as well as going and doing technical training
modules of welding so that I knew what they need to do (and welding
thousands of objects as part of the rest of my work).
Flux core MIG tends to splatter more
Agreed, but since 99% of machines seem to be run as gas-MIG, an irrelevant
point. MIG spatters much more than TIG (Pick your judgement value, since
TIG is almost spatter-free). But spatter is a minor annoyance if, like me,
your weld shapes are not perfect so the job gets cleaned up with a grinder
and sander anyway.
You have to chip off slag every time you stop flux core MIG,
might be 20 to 30 times on a tube weld
This one has been answered by Gadget.
Smoke and the torch design makes MIG harder to see the weld
Smoke? Not with gas MIG, unless you are welding something that has not beed
properly prepared. Which brings up a point - with ANY welding, clean ALL of
the old paint/rust/oil etc off the parts within at least an inch of the
weld zone. Good preparation is probably 80% or more of getting a good weld.
Once you start MIG you can't change speeds
Well, sort of. Advanced machines can have operator control on a pendant, so
can be tweaked on the fly. But in addition, you can adjust your weld power
(around 5 to 10%) by moving the tip closer and away from the job. Also if
the weld pool is getting too hot you can stop for a moment, and restart
when the pool cools back some. You can also change your speed of travel, at
the expense of bead shape, slower is flatter weld with more penetration,
faster brings less penetration and more bead, too fast is inadequate
penetration. But unless you are doing something strange, why do you need to
change speed?
One off welding (like race cars) tends to be TIG welded, MIG is
faster for production
Has been answered by others.
MIG welds start off cold for the first fraction of an inch
True, but on steel, no matter. Structural Aluminium should really only be
MIGed with a more advanced machine, which has an aluminium profile that
ignites with minimum feed and lots of amps, then brings up the feed and
backs down the amps for the main weld, and ramps off the amps when
finished. Doesn't mean you can't MIG aluminium with a typical 'dumb'
machine, it's just harder.
MIG welds are more brittle at the start and stop, since the
shielding gas gets turned on and off with the arc.
Ha! Not on a quality machine since around 1975. Shielding gas comes on with
everything else, to be sure, but until the arc lights up, no problem. Few
machines that I've come across have pre-gas for MIG. But most
professional-market machines have post-gas timers, along with burn-back
timers. But on steel the problem is not brittleness, but porosity. Cheap
MIGs have this problem. Quite a few times I have refitted someones' cheap
MIG with a 'real' gun and a timer and gas valve (a lot of cheap MIGs have
guns that have a manual gas valve in the torch body). If you are looking
for a cheaper MIG, look for one that uses a professional gun, and a gas
valve, a good indicator of the rest of the machine.
Question, do any race bodies restrict using MIG vs. TIG vs. gas
welding?
I am not informed to answer that question.
As an additional datapoint, the senior fitter at the local brewery (where
95%+ of the welding is stainless), contracted privately to build some heavy
(6 or 8mm wall) RHS shelf frames as part of an expansion. He TIGs at work,
he TIGs at home.
James
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Hi Everybody,
The Electric Imp has been out being fast on the track. Unfortunately we have
been a lot slower keeping everyone abreast of what we are doing. It is funny
how racing always seems to win over typing. We do have a mass of good data
that we will be posting including track videos. I will let the list know
when we get some more stuff up on the web site.
Anyway, I wanted to tell the tale of our trip to Steve Clunn's EV Rally.
We had a good time and had a chance to drive the Electric Imp further than
ever before.
Our race shop is about 130 miles from Ft Pierce where the Rally was being
held. Shawn Waggoner, Florida chapter EAA President and organizer
extraordinaire, offered to trailer the Electric Imp to the Rally. Since he
lives 58 miles towards Ft Pierce, we decided to drive to his house and
trailer from there. To add to the festivities ( and our peace of mind ), we
plan to convoy up with a Prius.
In theory, the Electric Imp's 22.4 KW-Hrs of Kokam Lithium Polymer batteries
should give us a range of 100-110 miles of highway driving. Theories are
wonderful things but we had never driven the Imp further than 30 miles
without charging.
Our new version of our BMS has just given us the ability to equalize all the
cells voltages so we were cautious optimistic that we can go the distance.
We get on the Florida turnpike, snuggled up to the back of the Prius and try
to hold our speed below 65. Since most traffic is doing 80 we keep finding
our speed drifting up.
58 miles later, we roll in to Shawn's. Our pack voltage is 331 volts or
about 3.76 volts per cell. According to voltage, the cells have about 50%
capacity left. SIADIS claims we have used 12.4 kw-hrs or 55% of pack
capacity. This works out to 213 watt-hrs per mile. Not bad!
We load the car onto the trailer and then plug in to Shawn's new 50 amp 220
volt plug. The PFC50 shows 30 amps going into the pack. This much power is a
wonderful thing.
Shawn and Matt have started an EV company called SEVO
(http://www.suncoast.net/). They
are planning on selling Electric pocket bikes and have some protypes ready
for the Rally.
Which means: Test drive!
Now, for those of you who have never seen a pocket bike, they look like
racing motorcycles that got put in the dryer for too long and shrank to 1/5
of their
original size.
Riding them is a blast. You crouch low on the bike. Your head sticks out in
front of the wheel and the road zips by a foot and a half below your nose.
The SEVO bikes have lots of torque. Easy on the throttle or the front wheel
lifts. Lots of fun.
The Prius gets to draft Shawn's truck as we go the rest of the way to Ft
Pierce. MPG climbs from 46 to 49 though it is not clear how much of the gain
is from less wind resistance and how much is from just driving smoother.
At the rally I get to meet, in person, a lot of people I have only known
from
the list. Briefly:
Steve Clunn is as intense in person as he comes across in his emails. It is
great to see what that much drive can accomplish. Most of the EVs at the
show exist because Steve put them on the road. The majority are work
vehicles, rough but practical. The exception is the Gazelle, a eye catching
Mercedes replica that entranced everyone.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/616.html.
I also spent a lot of time with Charles Whalen. He is working with Steve to
convert his Porsche using Valence batteries. It is great to see more
lithiums being tested. Valence seem to be aiming at a different market than
the Kokams. The Valence cells are limited to very low currents (think
Thundersky's or wet lead acids) but they are claiming 2000 cycles which
would make them a long term bargain.
Charles said he had to sign a non-disclosure to get the batteries but I hope
he will post as much as he can as he and Steve learn more. These batteries
might be an excellent option for some conversions.
I also got to meet Lowell Simmons, the driving force behind Mirimar High
School's award winning EV program. He was there with their new Porsche 924
and a huge trophy from their overall win at the EV Challenge this year.
That is just a few of the EV enthusiasts that I met. There was lots of good
information and we all talked EVs until we were hoarse.
Late in the day, Shawn sat everyone down for the Electric Auto Association
meeting. I have to admit that I did not get around to paying my EAA dues
until last week. I hope others have been more efficient. If not, go to
www.EAAEV.org now and sign up. The Electric Auto Association gives EV's a
voice. Join and give them more clout.
Back to Shawn's and unload the Imp and finish charging.
The Prius and Imp convoy home. Our speed is a little higher. We skip our one
wrong turn and only have to go 57.2 miles. Battery voltage ends at 332 or
3.77 volts per cell. Still over 50% Charge left. SIADIS claims 12.763 kw-hrs
(57%) used or 223 watts per mile. Best of all, the BMS says there is only
0.03 volts between the highest cell and the lowest cell. I think 100 miles
is doable.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
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Doug,
Thanks for posting the pictures. I can't get enough of looking at EVs,
always looking for ideas and inspiration.
I would like more information on the three-wheeled Lambo replica owned by
Tom (the last picture in the gallery). What kit is that? What are its
specs? Is it in the EVAlbum? I wasn't able to find it there.
I spoke a bit with Tom. The three wheeler is called EVette. The owner is a
bit of an 'Old School' inventor. He talks a good game but keeps the front
wheel hidden so no one will steal his ideas. The car is set up to be steered
with a joy stick so my guess is there is a motor on each of the rear wheels.
More power to one motor would make the car turn. The front wheel is probably
rigged like a shopping cart front wheel, free to spin any direction.
The owner says it turns on a dime and drives straight fine. It is not
powered now but could use any power source (including the Tilly Generator?).
I peaked underneath and saw rusty 'I' beams and open space. It does not look
like it has been off the trailer in a while.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
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Best reaction time wins a 250 amp tig welder with pulse.You (Must) be able to
run at least 18 seconds in the qt.mile.You must be able to pass the nhra
tech.inspection.The race will be in november,and will include hands on demos of
mig,tig and plasma welding and cutting.You will also receive a basic
welder,plasma cutter troubleshooting course.If I receive 20 entries by
september 1, the
evs will race as a group for the prize.If there are less than 20 cars,evs will
race against the ices for the prize.Delay boxes will not be allowed on either
ice or electric cars or motorcycles.I will not drive the Current
Eliminator,although an Ice racer drawn from a hat will get to race the CE for
the prize
without the delay box hooked up.You need not be a nedra or nhra member.Entry
fee
$30 Dennis Berube
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Alaric G. Weigle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Stay away from any of the less stylish econo-boxes. That is
> exactly the image that EV's are trying to overcome. We want
> folks to think of vehicles that have some style and performance
> well when they think of EV's.
I'm not so sure about this. I'm not convinced that EVs have much of any
image to overcome in the mind of the general public.
Given that the mission that EVs are presently best suited for is that of
the daily commute, it makes perfect sense that an econo-box type vehicle
would be an appropriate base.
This doesn't mean that it has to be ugly, of course. In this regard,
the Toyota Echo hatchback
<http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/2/wo/Home.Vehicles.Go.E
choHatchback-NTSWSNYtvjTmrzrjdbI45M/3.11?fmg%2fechohatchback%2fintro%2eh
tml>
(commonly available here in Canada; not sure of US availability) is much
more attractive than the sedan version and just simply looks like it
should be electric.
> Subaru would be a great idea,
> BMW's Mini, the Mustang, the GTO;
I think there is significant danger in choosing any 'performance
oriented' donor vehicle in that the conversion is unlikely to match the
original's performance and there will be significant resistance to
purchasing a sportscar such as a Mustang if it can't meet the
accleration and/or speed specs of the ICE version.
Even the T-Zero suffers from this... I've shown the site to people and
the comments back are typically expressing disappointment with the low
(90mph-ish) top speed of this car which is competing with relatively
exotic ICE machinery at its price point.
It is not that a conversion can't match the original's performance,
however, doing so typically means a significantly more expensive
conversion than the norm. One of the big hurdles here is that the
cheapest, most forgiving battery choice is flooded lead acid, however,
this typically means a relatively low system voltage, relatively low
power, and relatively heavy conversion. AGMs improve all of these
apsects, but require battery battery management and charging systems and
are generally a poor choice from the point of view of reasonable pack
life in the hands of a newbie/non-technical EVer. I'm not sure that
there is any AGM BMS/charger system presently available to the EV
builder that would allow Joe Sixpack to get reasonable pack life in a
'plug-and-forget' mode of usage.
I think it is far easier to convert an econo-box and end up with a
conversion that meets or exceeds the original's performance and, most
importantly, the end user's epxectations. This will make it an easier
sell than a 4-cylinder performance equivalent Mustang.
Cheers,
Roger.
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I live in Mexico, so books aren't too easily come by, but my bro' has purchased
Electric Motors and Control Techniques
Irving M. Gottlieb
9.2" x 7.3" x 0.6"
Amazon's stated shipping weight 1.1 Lb.
ISBN: 0070240124
Amazon's new price $16.47
I get to pick it up week after next when we go for a visit.
Larry Skidmore
David Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Folks,
I'm wondering if anyone would have a suggestion on a book to educate
oneself about the theory and operation of electric motors and their
control. I've read Bob Brant's 'Build your Own Electric Vehicle' which
has a chapter on motors and another on controllers - but I'm looking
for something more detailed and thorough. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
David
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!
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Yup
240 at 40 is 9600
Come on it's just amps times volts..
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Veggy oil into electricity
> Is 10kw about 40 amps continous? LR........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeremy Longworth T L C Orchids" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:53 AM
> Subject: Veggy oil into electricity
>
>
> > You can charge your EV and produce your own power for your home using
veg
> > oil in a diesel genset
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11754&item=7518195447&rd=1
> >
> > http://www.utterpower.com/
>
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