EV Digest 4392
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: The JeepEV, Zilla, and contactor - Problem Solved!
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) BB600
by "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: FL EAA & Grassroots EV Rally Pictures
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Kokam powered Electric Imp does 58 miles at 65 mph
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Busbars for Batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Busbars for Batteries
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Busbars for BB6600 Batteries
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) What is with Vancouver and revived batteries
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Fw: 12kw item.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Kokam powered Electric Imp does 58 miles at 65 mph
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Busbars for BB6600 Batteries
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Fw: 12kw item.
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by "Alaric G. Weigle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Busbars for Batteries
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Babying new T-875s
by jimevdl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Exide Orbital price?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) RE: Exide Orbital price?
by "Ed Koffeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Exide Orbital price?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Wrecked Aspire going, going, Gone.........
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Isn't that a great feeling , I call it the "ahhhh" , Thanks for letting us
know , seems like somthing anybody might do ,.
steve clunn .
I've since moved the capacitor and meter to different wiring.
Another Problem solved... I hope my explanation was
coherent. :-)
was to me :-)
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
Here is a web site that sells the bb600
http://www.sg-photo.com/nicad_batteries.htm
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I've Known Tom for about 10 years and he may be a relative of Tilly :-) .
As old friends we often end up agreeing to disagree. The car LOOKs good ,
I've given him my old batteries in the past , but he drives it little , if
at all . Yes he is always worried that somebody will steal his idea, , guess
I don't help when I tell people it steers just like my lawn mower :-) .
Steve Clunn
,
----- Original Message -----
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>; "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: FL EAA & Grassroots EV Rally Pictures
Doug,
Thanks for posting the pictures. I can't get enough of looking at EVs,
always looking for ideas and inspiration.
I would like more information on the three-wheeled Lambo replica owned by
Tom (the last picture in the gallery). What kit is that? What are its
specs? Is it in the EVAlbum? I wasn't able to find it there.
I spoke a bit with Tom. The three wheeler is called EVette. The owner is a
bit of an 'Old School' inventor. He talks a good game but keeps the front
wheel hidden so no one will steal his ideas. The car is set up to be
steered
with a joy stick so my guess is there is a motor on each of the rear
wheels.
More power to one motor would make the car turn. The front wheel is
probably
rigged like a shopping cart front wheel, free to spin any direction.
The owner says it turns on a dime and drives straight fine. It is not
powered now but could use any power source (including the Tilly
Generator?).
I peaked underneath and saw rusty 'I' beams and open space. It does not
look
like it has been off the trailer in a while.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan,
If you were able to turn off one of the motors and inverters, would
that increase the highway range any and how much?
If you turn off one motor, it will still be attached to a differential so
there would be no decrease in drag.
There might be a sweet spot in efficiency for the motors so turn off one
motor might put you in the sweet spot or might take you out of it.
One motor might limit how hard you can accelerate which could help range.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> Anyone have suggestions on how to make this less expensive? (Making
> the bars by hand is a LOT of work for several hundred of them, and
> I'd still want them protected from corrosion.)
If it's a lot of work, takes expensive tools, and the plating operation
is messy and dangerous, then perhaps they are *worth* $1-$2 each?
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Ed Ang made a lot of them from Nickel bars. Real expensive. I suspect if
you cut the bars from copper plate and used a template it wouldn't be that
bad. Paying 2.50 each isn't bad once you find out how much plate is. It
ain't cheap. I used Allen Steel in Redwood City for my plate on other
projects. I used Liquid Tin for my other projects with good results. I am
sure there is a Liquid Nickel out there. Nasty stuff though. YOu have to
take it to a recycler to dispose of. BTW your BB600 batteries cost over 400
dollars each in in Hundred Dollar Hammersville. Look at it as a Govt.
subsidy but you have to pay real dollars for the accesories. Don't stint.
These puppies can put out enormous current. (1800 amps per cell) I'd
consult the buss bar page for thickness. It will be in the 1/8 inch range.
Here is a link to one supplier. They claim to be the best.
http://www.palminc.com/chemicals/liquid_nickel_sulfate.htm LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <Recipient list suppressed>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 2:12 PM
Subject: Busbars for Batteries
Okay, I'm one of the people who has picked up a bunch of surplus BB600
NiCd cells. These are 34AH and useful for things like electric cars.
One problem is connecting them together. I've priced getting little
copper busbars made up, and that comes out to $1.50ea for the bar, and
another $1.00ea for the nickel plating. OUCH. (Especially since we only
paid $1 ea for the cells!) This is for 1-3/4" x 1/2" x 1/8" bars.
Anyone have suggestions on how to make this less expensive? (Making the
bars by hand is a LOT of work for several hundred of them, and I'd still
want them protected from corrosion.)
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--- Begin Message ---
"Then you can coat them in a melted bath of solder"
After using Liquid Tin I'd be more apt to use Liquid Nickel now. It was
easy and I used only a few oz. to coat 20 Buss bars. Seems Nickel has the
least reaction with the NiCads. You still need to coat the connections with
something. The batteries clean up easy but corrosion can cause resistance.
LR..........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Below is a story about electric vehicles. It mentions revived batteries. I
have been hearing a lot about this from the Vancouver area. Is this someone
with a pulser or some other device fixing batteries up
there??????????????????? Anyone have the skinny on this. Can anyone in
that part of the world respond if you know? I have a bunch of batteries
that need help. Lawrence Rhodes......
Tell municipal council about "electric vehicles"
Tell your municipal council about a different kind of "electric
vehicle"!
Electric disability scooters, large ones at that, equipped with
trailers, are replacing small vans in the city of Vancouver, Canada,
to deliver food to needy, poor, and homeless. Without polluting the air,
like fossil-fueled vehicles. In addition, these electric wheelchairs can
"park" on the sidewalk -- something that trucks or vans cannot legally do.
Tell you local municipal council to imitate this method of delivery!
Mom's Agape Street Ministry has (they say) been doing this for about ten
years. These electric 'chairs and their revived batteries (gel or sealed
lead acid) are donated.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is the guy on ebay selling those Chinese gensets. My Electravan draw
about 100 amps or less on flat freeways. He says the 12kw unit will produce
this 24/7. I'd like to make a veggy oil range extender to go to Southern
Cal with. This is the same Ebay vendor that was receitly on the list. The
genset was about a grand. Worth the money? With trailer and all it'll
weigh at least 500 pounds. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel A. Koch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: 12kw item.
Hello Lawrence,
A 12 KW generator head puts out 100 amps continuous at 120 volts.
Regards,
Joel
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I am considering running an electric car with your genset(long range.
Not for local use). I need 100 amps continuous. Can your genset do
that? Be real nice if it could.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence,
You guys are using about 421 pounds of batteries.>
Our pack consists of 88 cells and weighs about 379 lbs.
<What did that cost? >
The price of Kokam Lithium Polymer batteries can be calculated by 1.4 times
(amp-hrs) times 3.7 times (number of cells). In our case that would be
1.4*70*3.7*88 = $31,908.80 plus shipping. Not cheap but we are running a
huge pack (22.4 kw-hrs) because road racing requires a lot of power.
I am looking forward to seeing someone converting a motorcycle. Let say 24
of the 40 amp-hr cells. That is a 88 volt nominal (100 volt full charge)
pack. Capacity would be 3.5 kw-hrs and the pack would weigh all of 58 lbs.
Price of the pack: $4972.80 plus shipping.
<What did the BMS cost...>
We are developing our own BMS based on Lee Hart's balancer idea and off the
shelf hardware from www.eeci.com. Since we are writing our own software, it
is hard to put a realistic price on it. At the moment our BMS is capable of
reading each cell voltage and connecting the highest cells to a resistor to
equalize the pack. This seems to be all we need. We have the hardware to
actively boost individual cells but have not implemented it yet. Victor's
system (www.Metricmind.com) or a modified version of Rudman regulators
(needs to be for 4.2 volts not 12 volts) (www.manzanitamicro.com) can do
exactly what we are doing now.
<...and how is it working with the PFC charger? LR.........>
We set the charger voltage limit above our pack max voltage limit. We turn
the amp dial to full on (or what ever the AC breaker can give us). In our
BMS we have the hardware to create an analog signal that can be used to
control the taper of the PFC 50 charger. However, we continue to do our bit
towards full employment for all <G>. In other words, one of the crew keeps
an eye on the BMS computer and hand tapers the charge as the highest cell
hits 4.2 volts.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
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--- Begin Message ---
>--- John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Okay, I'm one of the people who has picked up a
>> bunch of surplus BB600 NiCd
>> cells. These are 34AH and useful for things like
>> electric cars.
>> One problem is connecting them together. I've
>> priced getting little copper
>> busbars made up, and that comes out to $1.50ea for
>> the bar, and another
>> $1.00ea for the nickel plating. OUCH. (Especially
>> since we only paid $1
>> ea for the cells!) This is for 1-3/4" x 1/2" x 1/8"
>> bars.
>>
>> Anyone have suggestions on how to make this less
>> expensive? (Making the
>> bars by hand is a LOT of work for several hundred of
>> them, and I'd still
>> want them protected from corrosion.)
I haven't been following this very closely but here's my suggestion
from someone who does a LOT of repetitive tasks. I reload a LOT of
match ammunition plus I make things on the drill press that would
normally require a mill or CNC. Here is a photo, for instance, of my
setup to drill the burner plate for a glass bending ribbon fire. Over
a thousand large holes and several hundreds small ones through 1/2"
cold rolled steel.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/files/neon/Shop%20Tools/ribbon_burner/photo_4.jpg
The trick is to set up good fixturing so that the process can be done
with muscle memory and then have something to occupy your mind. A
good audio book or (if you must) a TV show does the trick.
Not shown in that photo is a little ball detent that would index on a
hole. When one hole was drilled, I'd slide the steel forward until
the detent indexed on the next hole. The steel was automatically in
position so all I had to do was pull the drill press handle. Index,
drill, index, drill, etc.
No fancy tooling is necessary. Oak or hickory wood makes nice
fixtures for things like this. My approach would be as follows.
First I'd see if I could get the copper stock sheared to length by a
job shop. That should be very inexpensive, especially if they have an
automated shear.
I'd take a piece of oak and using a dremel tool, cut a T-shaped slot
such that the top of the T is wide enough to receive the copper while
the stem of the T is large enough for the drill bit to drill the hole.
I'd bring the slot all the way out to one edge so that I could slide
the copper in and butt it against the other end. Then clamp the block
to the drill press so that the drill comes down in the proper location
for a hole on one end of the copper.
The procedure would be to slide a copper piece up against the butt
end, pull the drill press lever, then eject the piece. If I had an
air compressor (I do), I'd drill a horz hole from the butt end through
to the end of the wood, insert a tube and connect it through a blow
gun to the air supply. I'd clamp the blow gun to the drill press
table. That way a simple rap on the blow gun handle would use air to
eject the piece. Arrange a pan to catch the pieces so you don't have
to handle them twice.
I'd drill all of one end, then do the batch again on the other end.
Once you get the rhythm down you should be able to do one every 2
seconds or so. With a suitable distraction, the time will fly by so
fast that you'll be surprised at how little time it took.
Little ChiCom desktop drill presses are available from the likes of
Harbor Freight for under a C-note. Since everyone needs a drill
press, consider it a long term investment.
If I could not get the stock sheared for a reasonable price I'd buy
one of the flat stock shear tools from Harbor Freight, set up a simple
fixture to set the length and do my own shearing. The shear is quite
inexpensive.
If that was too expensive then I'd rig up a bolt cutter on my bench so
that blocks of wood would support the stock level with the lower jaw
and another would set the length. With the bolt cutter bolted to the
bench, the process is again mindless - push the stock against the stop
and pull the lever.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---
The diesels in the gensets use the basin type cooling
setup. It's basically a small bathtub with water in
it, surrounding the cylinder. as you run the genny you
have to periodically fill the tub. I'm afraid that if
you had it on a trailer you might lose all your water
bouncing down the road.
Gadget
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is the guy on ebay selling those Chinese
> gensets. My Electravan draw
> about 100 amps or less on flat freeways. He says
> the 12kw unit will produce
> this 24/7. I'd like to make a veggy oil range
> extender to go to Southern
> Cal with. This is the same Ebay vendor that was
> receitly on the list. The
> genset was about a grand. Worth the money? With
> trailer and all it'll
> weigh at least 500 pounds. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joel A. Koch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:17 AM
> Subject: Re: 12kw item.
>
>
> > Hello Lawrence,
> > A 12 KW generator head puts out 100 amps
> continuous at 120 volts.
> > Regards,
> > Joel
> >
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
> >> I am considering running an electric car with
> your genset(long range.
> >> Not for local use). I need 100 amps continuous.
> Can your genset do
> >> that? Be real nice if it could.
> >> Lawrence Rhodes
> >> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> >> Reedmaker
> >> Book 4/5 doubler
> >> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> 415-821-3519
> >>
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sent this last night (5/26), but it appears to have disappeared into the ether.
Roger Stockton wrote:
Alaric G. Weigle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Stay away from any of the less stylish econo-boxes. That is
exactly the image that EV's are trying to overcome. We want
folks to think of vehicles that have some style and performance
well when they think of EV's.
I'm not so sure about this. I'm not convinced that EVs have much of any
image to overcome in the mind of the general public.
If you mention electric powered vehicles to John Q Public (at least in the
States) the first thing they tend to think of is the golf cart. If they've
been exposed to any full size EV's they tend to think of them as slow and/or
impractical; not to mention weird looking. Even the EV1 is seen as
unattractive. If you're really lucky, they've encountered a few conversions.
Unfortunately, most of the conversions they've seen are of the overweight,
underpowered, flooded cell, small controller type. Donor vehicles are
typically older model vehicles that can be found for relatively little money
and owners tend not to have had the resources to really make the car look
sharp. Plain, common, cheap feeling, economy vehicles with faded paint, tacky
decals, and weathered interiors do not enamour the public with the idea of an
electric vehicle. A brand new, nice looking econo-box is certainly better than
that poor standard, but it's hardly going to win over tons of converts. Th!
at's not to say that we should ignore practicallity. A four door sedan is a
better choice than a two door coupe if you want to encourage more folks to
buy/build EVs. But why hinder yourself by associating EV's with a class of
vehicle that is typified by lackluster performance (outside of economoy),
ungainly handling, and unattractive looks.
Subaru would be a great idea,
BMW's Mini, the Mustang, the GTO;
I think there is significant danger in choosing any 'performance
oriented' donor vehicle in that the conversion is unlikely to match the
original's performance and there will be significant resistance to
purchasing a sportscar such as a Mustang if it can't meet the
accleration and/or speed specs of the ICE version.
That is certainly a concern. Which is why I'd say that the best
bets are the import sedans like the Civic, Accord, Imprezza, and Integra.
Not only are there both mild mannered and sporty versions of these cars,
but there are tons of aftermarket parts available. Why limit
yourself to a platform that restricts you to one flavor of vehicle?
It is not that a conversion can't match the original's performance,
however, doing so typically means a significantly more expensive
conversion than the norm. One of the big hurdles here is that the
cheapest, most forgiving battery choice is flooded lead acid, however,
this typically means a relatively low system voltage, relatively low
power, and relatively heavy conversion.
The idea is to offer choice. Build your kit to be as modular as
possible. Don't lock anyone into one particular battery, controller, or
motor type. Sell packages with explainations as to expected performance.
I think it is far easier to convert an econo-box and end up with a
conversion that meets or exceeds the original's performance and, most
importantly, the end user's epxectations. This will make it an easier
sell than a 4-cylinder performance equivalent Mustang.
You might be surprised to know how many 4 and 6 cylinder
Camaro's Chevy has sold over the years. The lower end V6 Mustangs sold
rather well, too. 88-107hp in a 3000lb car is not exactly sporty. Just
because your car performs like a snail, doesn't mean it has to look like
one.
Of course, it can be tons of fun the other way around as well.
I'm not denying the attraction of owning a "sleeper." But a nice, sporty
looking donor and a clean covnersion will get you more attention,
regardless of the actual performance, than that a nice clean conversion of
a low-end econo-box.
-Alaric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got very lucky in finding a stash of nickel plated bus bar for free at
work. Even at that it is a lot of work to make them into the right size
connections, but for what I am working on the effort is worth the savings.
I think you have to look at the overall price of the battery once it is
finished. I like comparing 10 cells to a standard AGM like an Optima or
Orbital as the overall performance characteristics are similar. So if you
paid ~$3 a cell including shipping for the batteries, and add another ~$3 a
cell for hardware for putting the 10 cells together you end up with a 35
pound Optima like battery for around $60. Add on to this the lack of a cold
weather penalty and the life time expectency and this still seems like a
pretty good bargain. Perhaps not as great a bargain as the original 1$ a
cell price seemed like, but still very good. You can of course make this
price cheaper with DIY interconnects, but like always it comes down to
whether you want to spend time or money.
If I were in your shoes I would buy the interconnects and remember that
until Tim graciously offered these cells up, the going surpluss price was
about $10 a cell and you still had to come up with interconnects.
damon
From: John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Busbars for Batteries
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 14:12:25 -0700
Okay, I'm one of the people who has picked up a bunch of surplus BB600 NiCd
cells. These are 34AH and useful for things like electric cars.
One problem is connecting them together. I've priced getting little copper
busbars made up, and that comes out to $1.50ea for the bar, and another
$1.00ea for the nickel plating. OUCH. (Especially since we only paid $1
ea for the cells!) This is for 1-3/4" x 1/2" x 1/8" bars.
Anyone have suggestions on how to make this less expensive? (Making the
bars by hand is a LOT of work for several hundred of them, and I'd still
want them protected from corrosion.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What else can be done....
Front end design for anti dive, rear wheelie bar to keep the front on the
ground and still have some kind of traction.
Get a Zilla 2K because you are going to need a REAL controller. Who
makes a 1000 amp 120 volt controller???
The 9 will make all the power you can handle and then quite a bit more. The
lack of traction is your real limiter. Keeping the controller in line until
you get out of 2nd or third, maybe 4th will be a good idea.
You will need to move every once of battery weight and anything else you can
find as far forward in the Ev as possible. The more weight you have over
the front end the better. The less weight transfer off the front and onto
the backs the better. Read REALLY stiff front springs and shocks.
The motor dynamics... 120 volts is not enough to get a really nice high rpm
pull. It will go to sleep at about 3500 rpm. The 1000 amps will burn rubber
in 1st and 2nd gears, But Torque monster and no high rpms will kill your
chance at a good MPH and ET. You need 240 volts on that motor to really make
some HP. For that you need a Zilla2K .
Jumping from 120 on the controller to 240 contactor, will simply light the
tires in what ever gear you are in. No controller no Rev limiter... motor
go BANG! Even in 5th over drive this may be a real concern. It all depends
on when you shift what gear you are in, and how much clutch and tire you
have. Keep in mind the only thing you want slipping is the tires.
So your chances of NOT breaking stuff and doing 12?? and 100 in the quater
are about nill. You need to find better ways of laying down the power with
control. Not just sparks and busted parts.
Plasma Boy Wayland can get away with this Cave man control because he has
rear wheel drive. Us front drive guys can't do that, and get away with it.
Also John stays on the controller for the 60 ft lauch.
Bigger brushes NOT! Bigger brush leads and cables yes. Warp has a pretty
good set already. It's not worth your efforts to do much with brush leads
until you turn them Purple.
Advanced timing, Yup! 10 to 13 Deg advance more than that will make really
big arcs when starting.
Seating the brushes. Of course!! Who would run a Gas cas without gapping the
plugs???
Anytime you want to run that 80 VW against my 78 Ford Fiesta, Bring it ON!
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "john bart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing
> I should also mention that we plan on running the car at 240 volts with
the contactor setup and 120 for normal driving on the controller. We also
have some pictures of our progress at
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=27&t=1973&s=248801be9fab2b4a8a23f61a88380b1b
>
> john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hi all, i'm new to the EVDL, but
am pretty familiar with ev's. A group of college students and I are
converting a 1980 VW Scirocco S into a drag racer currently. We have
stripped the vehicle of the interior and have taken out the gas
motor/transmission. We're strengthening the frame to help support the power
levels we plan for, which is to hit the 12 second 1/4 mile barrier. As of
now we plan on using a 5 speed VW transmission that is built to handle the
high load of torque needed to meet our goals. For power we are using 20 12
volt 40 AH hawker batteries to source the needed current.
>
> My main question is can we get enough power out of a 9" Warp motor to
achieve our goals? We will be running a controller, but its only a 120 volt
1000 amp unit for the usual around town driving. For full power we're using
a contactor setup. I've heard of using bigger brushes, advancing the timing,
seating the brushes, etc. to increase power, but what else can be done???
Thanks for any input on the subject.
>
> __________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 09:43:21
-0700
The 9 will make all the power you can handle and then quite a bit more. The
lack of traction is your real limiter. Keeping the controller in line until
you get out of 2nd or third, maybe 4th will be a good idea.
You will need to move every once of battery weight and anything else you
can
find as far forward in the Ev as possible. The more weight you have over
the front end the better. The less weight transfer off the front and onto
the backs the better.
And, it may be obvious, but in case it isn't, you also want all the weight
as LOW in the car as possible. That will also reduce the weight transfer
onto the back wheels. You should particularly try to mount all the
batteries as low as possible ( and not scrape the road). Lowering the
whole car will help here also.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congrats on passing the inspection.
My Celica has a similar setup, in that I have 14 x 8V T-875's (112V nominal).
When I have a full pack, at certain conditions of full throttle, I'll peak out
about 350 battery amps, and the voltage is about 100V (about 1.79v/cell). Seems
like yours are a bit weaker, but give it some more cycles (about 20) before you
get too concerned. I think the limits you mentioned should be good for
protecting your battery investment.
Do make sure your terminals are tight, your electrolyte level is correct, and
that nothing is getting hot to the touch after a drive (terminals, wires,
batts, motor, motor connections, etc).
Also, beware of chronic undercharging. Another poster, who has a lot of
experience with T-875's recommends daily charging at 2.433 v/cell, with a
monthly equalization charge close to 2.6v/cell. I've discovered that during
the past month (about 95 deg during the day), my water useage has increase
quite a bit. I also was slightly over-charging them- remember the charge
voltage drops at temperature goes up. (I need to drop down to about 2.4 v/cell
at 90'F).
Best regards, Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Claudio Natoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: May 26, 2005 10:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Babying new T-875s
Hi all,
my converted Daihatsu Charade passed inspection last weekend, and is now
allowed on the road! (well, it will be when I go pay for the registration
papers).
I've not yet had the opportunity to give it a good shakedown (ie. only driven
it a handful of miles, and never had it above 30mph), but I did have some
questions regarding what I can expect from the batteries.
It's running (brand new) 15x 8V Trojan T-875s in series for a total of 120V.
Fully charged, I found that I was hitting the low-voltage limit of 105V
(1.75V/cell) at around 200Amps (accelerating from stop). I'd expected it to hit
the 350Amp limit first, which was the programmed limit at the time.
I'm wondering if this is to be expected until the pack gets "broken in", or do
I start looking elsewhere ("lemon" in the pack, dodgy interconnects)? Assuming
the former, is 1.75V/cell a safe limit to "baby" the pack through the first
couple dozen cycles, or should I consider going higher? All being normal,
should I see the current available at this limit slowly increase with cycles?
Are there other things to avoid in this period?
Looking forward, are 105V (1.75V/cell) low-voltage and 350 amp limits
reasonable (keeping in mind that this sort of current will only be needed
periodically) for long, happy, battery life?
Thanks for any advice!
Grinning,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John, It's great to hear of a new amphead on the block. I do not want to
rain on your parade but I have personally tried using contactors and so has
John Wayland. In my early experiments with switching a single 9 inch
Advanced DC on at 120 volts running a series/parallel 120/240 system it
would take off great! but it only lasted two runs. It blew a molten hole
through the end bell. It really zorched the motor! "Madman" gave you some
good advice about the motor. You should heed this advice. As far as your
question about reaching 12s with a single motor it can be done in a dragster
but it is nearly impossible in a sedan. Go look at the records on the NEDRA
website: www.nedra.com. You can achieve 13s at near 100 but breaking 100 is
nearly impossible with a single 9" motor. Note I said nearly as I don't want
to totally discourage you endeavor. You could possibly do it with an 11".
It is just something some of us old timers have learned the hard way. The
good news is that you have enough battery power to break into the 12s, you
just have to get that horsepower to the ground. You will need to save your
pennies and buy a Zilla Z2K if you are serious about the 12s. I tell people
that electric racing is just like gas racing. If you want to go quicker then
it will cost cubic bucks. The cost goes up exponentially :-)
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "john bart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:49 PM
Subject: 9" Warp motor for drag racing
Hi all, i'm new to the EVDL, but am pretty familiar with ev's. A group of
college students and I are converting a 1980 VW Scirocco S into a drag
racer currently. We have stripped the vehicle of the interior and have
taken out the gas motor/transmission. We're strengthening the frame to
help support the power levels we plan for, which is to hit the 12 second
1/4 mile barrier. As of now we plan on using a 5 speed VW transmission
that is built to handle the high load of torque needed to meet our goals.
For power we are using 20 12 volt 40 AH hawker batteries to source the
needed current.
My main question is can we get enough power out of a 9" Warp motor to
achieve our goals? We will be running a controller, but its only a 120
volt 1000 amp unit for the usual around town driving. For full power
we're using a contactor setup. I've heard of using bigger brushes,
advancing the timing, seating the brushes, etc. to increase power, but
what else can be done??? Thanks for any input on the subject.
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone purchased a batch of Exide's Orbital's recently? What was
the best price you saw? Its sounds like the $100 each for the Marine
Deep Cycle (ORD34DC) price I was quoted is a pretty good one. Anyone
else interested in a batch at that price?
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
Adding on to Roderick post,
I run a 1981 vw pickup. Same frame and running parts as you.
I have a Z2K, 11" kostov, and two strings of twenty
(40 total)17 amp hawkers. After three years of tuning, my best time is
15.331 sec. and 91.8 mph. I have said this before but I have gone through
3 transmissions a quiafe and now a fantom locker, oh and a few cvt joints
and clutches to get were I am.
Wayland hit me over the head last fall to get some street drag tires.
I hope to do better at June 11 at Power of Dc Watt Wheels Drag race with
my new BF Goodrich tires.
I one of problems is that front wheel drives are hard to get the power to the
ground.
I have new rear wheel car in the garge but it is two year away from seeing the
strip.
Robert Salem , 81 vw pickup, Z2K, 11" KOstov, 240 volts.
Columbus, Ohio
> Hi John, It's great to hear of a new amphead on the block. I do not want to
> rain on your parade but I have personally tried using contactors and so has
> John Wayland. In my early experiments with switching a single 9 inch
> Advanced DC on at 120 volts running a series/parallel 120/240 system it
> would take off great! but it only lasted two runs. It blew a molten hole
> through the end bell. It really zorched the motor! "Madman" gave you some
> good advice about the motor. You should heed this advice. As far as your
> question about reaching 12s with a single motor it can be done in a dragster
> but it is nearly impossible in a sedan. Go look at the records on the NEDRA
> website: www.nedra.com. You can achieve 13s at near 100 but breaking 100 is
> nearly impossible with a single 9" motor. Note I said nearly as I don't want
> to totally discourage you endeavor. You could possibly do it with an 11".
> It is just something some of us old timers have learned the hard way. The
> good news is that you have enough battery power to break into the 12s, you
> just have to get that horsepower to the ground. You will need to save your
> pennies and buy a Zilla Z2K if you are serious about the 12s. I tell people
> that electric racing is just like gas racing. If you want to go quicker then
> it will cost cubic bucks. The cost goes up exponentially :-)
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john bart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:49 PM
> Subject: 9" Warp motor for drag racing
>
>
> > Hi all, i'm new to the EVDL, but am pretty familiar with ev's. A group of
> > college students and I are converting a 1980 VW Scirocco S into a drag
> > racer currently. We have stripped the vehicle of the interior and have
> > taken out the gas motor/transmission. We're strengthening the frame to
> > help support the power levels we plan for, which is to hit the 12 second
> > 1/4 mile barrier. As of now we plan on using a 5 speed VW transmission
> > that is built to handle the high load of torque needed to meet our goals.
> > For power we are using 20 12 volt 40 AH hawker batteries to source the
> > needed current.
> >
> > My main question is can we get enough power out of a 9" Warp motor to
> > achieve our goals? We will be running a controller, but its only a 120
> > volt 1000 amp unit for the usual around town driving. For full power
> > we're using a contactor setup. I've heard of using bigger brushes,
> > advancing the timing, seating the brushes, etc. to increase power, but
> > what else can be done??? Thanks for any input on the subject.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date: 5/25/2005
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.1.0 - Release Date: 5/27/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, Mark.
I was planning on checking into this one - someone (John W.?) said they
could be picked up locally but I haven't followed that up yet.
http://www.autosupplyusa.com/exor34exdeep.html
Why the Marine one? (Seems to be $10 more)
If there's no local pickup deal and we can buy a batch at a good price I'd
come down to Austin to get them.
I would buy 10 batteries.
I was also considering the DEKA Intimidator 9A34 which I have found for
$108.95 including shipping. I don't know if it's as good a battery as the
Exide Orbitals, but it seems to be 10 to 20% more capacity at C/1.
http://www.remybattery.com/350/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=342&subcat=474&cat
=Deka+INTIMIDATOR
Ed Koffeman
Near Dallas
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Farver
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 1:32 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Exide Orbital price?
>
> Has anyone purchased a batch of Exide's Orbital's recently? What was
> the best price you saw? Its sounds like the $100 each for the Marine
> Deep Cycle (ORD34DC) price I was quoted is a pretty good one. Anyone
> else interested in a batch at that price?
>
> Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ed Koffeman wrote:
I was planning on checking into this one - someone (John W.?) said they
could be picked up locally but I haven't followed that up yet.
http://www.autosupplyusa.com/exor34exdeep.html
Why the Marine one? (Seems to be $10 more)
The cost I was quoted is the same for the 34XCD (SAE top posts and side
posts) and the Marine Deep Cycle (SAE posts and threaded bolts on the
top.) Without the side posts the marine batteries sit side by side a
little closer, saving about 1/2" or so.. looks nicer too. Other than
the terminals the batteries are identical.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<< What else can be done....
Front end design for anti dive, rear wheelie bar to keep the front on the
ground and still have some kind of traction.
Get a Zilla 2K because you are going to need a REAL controller. Who
makes a 1000 amp 120 volt controller??? >>>
I guess there's a demand for mega-controllers in the golf cart business, because
these guys supposedly have 72v/1000a ones for ~$500 and 120v/1000a for ~$700:
LogiSystems
9910 West 64th Street
Odessa, Texas 79764
Phone (432) 381-6000
Fax (432) 381-6001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Aspire Electrtic is in the Garage. Parts are being taken off. The
donor car is resting on the street. This might be an opportunity to get a
glider for a good body worker. All four doors seem good. Interior good.
Only 6700 miles on the car. The tailgate and right rear need work. Doesn't
seem so bad with everything out and opened up. You'd get two rear battery
boxes. (that cost a grand right there.) The back stainless battery box is
bent. The car needs to visit a frame strightener. Right wheel well needs
work. Lots of wiring between the cabin and under hood left in. I'll leave
in the molex connectors. Make me an offer. Very roomy 4 door. I can sit
in the back seat. Hybrid opportunity. The motor in the donor car runs
well. It'll hold 20 batteries in the back. You could have a 30 mile range
EV with the motor still in. I'd be a lot to cram in. Maybe only 10
batteries. 15 mile range. Just a thought.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
