EV Digest 4399
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Busbars for Batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Electric Skateboard
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electric Skateboard
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Liquid Nickel? was: Busbars for Batteries
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Kokam powered Electric Imp does 58 miles at 65 mph
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) article: Electric motor revving up for the fast lane
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: article: Electric motor revving up for the fast lane
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: article: Electric motor revving up for the fast lane
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Electric Skateboard
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Electric Skateboard
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) 36VDC or 48VDC for stick welding
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Water powered car? Hoax?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Cable vs. Solid copper
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Water powered car? Hoax?
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 36VDC or 48VDC for stick welding
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Alfa Romeo Conversion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Babying new T-875s
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Kokam powered Electric Imp does 58 miles at 65 mph
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Water powered car? Hoax?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: Water powered car? Hoax?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Water powered car? Hoax?
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Water powered car? Hoax?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Buss Bars with anodized surface????
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) The BS level of this item is high.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing (controllers)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Buss Bars with anodized surface????
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Stu and Jan wrote: > Just a reminder here. 68% overall efficiency refers to the already > charged battery used in the EV. If we consider the efficiency and > losses required to: > > 1> Generate the electricity. > 2> Deliver the electricity. > 3> Charge the battery. > > Our "Overall Efficiency" drops to well below 50%. True enough. However, I was only comparing a hydraulic pump/motor 'transmission' to a mechanical transaxle and drive shaft transmission. Since the above losses are the same in both cases, they don't affect the comparison. -- The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Lawrence Rhodes wrote: > > I am saying to Liquid Nickle plate the copper. Wouldn't this work? I don't know; I haven't tried the liquid nickel plating. But I have used the ones for tin and silver; and they both produce extremely thin coatings (only 10's of microinches). If you've got some, try it. Nickel plate a piece of copper, and dunk it in sulfuric acid from a lead-acid battery. Nickel would resist it; copper would not. If there are pinholes or the nickel is too thin, you'll soon know it! -- The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---http://www.flashactionelectronics.com/eskateboard.html Lawrence Rhodes Bassoon/Contrabassoon Reedmaker Book 4/5 doubler Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate [EMAIL PROTECTED] 415-821-3519
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--- Begin Message ---Appears to be nearly identical to the eXkate board: http://www.exkate.com/ecom/stores_app/store.asp?Store_id=129&page_id=5 Except the eXkate has more power (750W instead of 400W) and has a wireless remote, instead of the eGlide's wired remote. The eXkate's remote uses a low-frequency signal to prevent interference; it uses the rider's body as an antenna. I've ridden the eXkate, some will remember me making a fool of myself on it at Woodburn in 2002. It was a *blast*; I've wanted to buy one ever since. Surprisingly easy to learn even for non-skaters like myself, control over power and braking make it much easier to ride than a normal skateboard. --chris Lawrence Rhodes said: > http://www.flashactionelectronics.com/eskateboard.html > Lawrence Rhodes > Bassoon/Contrabassoon > Reedmaker > Book 4/5 doubler > Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 415-821-3519 > >
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--- Begin Message --- I posted a link to a liquid Nickel product. Can't find it now. Too many Emails. It's in the archeives. LR...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 3:44 PM Subject: Liquid Nickel? was: Busbars for BatteriesLawrence,Are you referring to a particular product, like MG Chemicals' "Liquid Tin"?http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/421.htmlIf so, could you provide a URL for where you've seen it? Is it this stuff?http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/840.html And if so, would its "acrylic base" increase resistance, or for some other reason be a bad idea in a high-current connection? Beyond that, the closest-looking product I've found, searching on Google (I don't even know if this is a reasonable guess): http://www.palminc.com/chemicals/liquid_nickel_sulfate.htm If a product like Liquid Tin exists that deposits a plating of relatively pure nickel without needing electroplating equipment, I might be interested in testing its durability on bus bars for nicads. Otherwise, I'll might soon be looking into electroplating shops nearby. --chris Lawrence Rhodes said:I am saying to Liquid Nickle plate the copper. Wouldn't this work? Lawrence Rhodes.......... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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--- Begin Message ---Rich,Plasma Boy.... didn't I show you the results of too many amps on a Kokam??? You vaporize one of the terminal posts.Are you talking about the one I lent Joe Smalley? Picture here: http://www.proev.com/Graphics/WHist/102504/thumbnails/P6190001b.jpgThat was at 800 + amps I hear.I would guess more amps. Two cells were being moved, stacked and connectedin series, The positive and negative touched and <flash>, most of one tab wasgone. Connected properly, the tabs hardly get warm at 600 amps.Still pretty good!Yeah. It was the moment that I began to realize these things would actually do the job. Cliff www.ProEV.comMadmanBTW Joe, What is happening with that cell?
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--- Begin Message ---I've took the Curtis controllers apart and Otmars control. The Curtis does not have the circuit board connections to handle high amps regardless of water cooling. Otmars control does have the high current circuit board connections that are needed. While a rebuilt Curtis can handle high amps for a golf cart, it will not for an on road EV regardless of the MOSFET/IGBT cooling method. Rich knows this, I just thought I would throw it out to the list. I think Otmar has this market cornered for the time being until Rich or I decide to build a high current controller. Rich is too busy with chargers (as he should be) and I'm too busy with the kids!! Rod --- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yea I have a Zilla 2K also... But years of building > Raptors and Rexs and > Quad Rod Scarers.... > > Before that I did 3 or so Curtii rehabs... and more > than my share of one > offs. > > So... I would love to take the Curtii... power stage > and slap it on a Water > cooled chill plate. Stuff in the BEST not the > cheapest Mosfets, Beef up the > gate drive, add a current control mode shut and DSP > controller, And > Scare the Crap out of Otmar.... > > This also goes for The T-Rex controllers that I DID > have a hand in > building.... I Assume.....I could make a LOT > stronger flavor that I did 7 > years ago...Damon and I have not actually been > sitting on your Butts for the > last few years. He bailed out of IGBT controls, I > use them exclusively, So > does Otmar... So you all can figure out Who learned > what from who. > > The point of this thread is Even a lowly 400 amp 120 > volt Curtii would be a > nice unit if it could scrub the heat it makes > faster. In fact it could out > perform a Raptor 1200 in the 15 minute window, if > the Curtii was water > cooled. We might want to mill the alum plate down... > and adjust some other > heatsink problems with the Curtti... But spend the > bucks, and add the right > engineering, and Hey... You get a better controller. > > The Raptors that I was involved with made 1800 amps > for the first 1/2 second > and then dropped to 1200 for about 15 seconds, then > thermalled back from > there. But ...they recovered with about 30 seconds > of cool down time, and > could do it again, before you got the car slowed > back down the legal Speed > posted. This was fast enough for most folks to never > know the edge of their > Raptor. > Once hot a Curtis with out a heatsink took many > minutes to 1/2 a hour to > cool down. On a decent finned sink this drops to > about 180 seconds, good > enough to pull some decent hills. > > Then we have the reliability Factor. Curtii, about a > year if you are lucky.. > the Zilla, Decades.... even run hard. Now what do > you customers want??? > cheap power, Affordable, No water cooling, and 5 > years of life??? That can > be done for about 1/2 the cost. It's a matter of > guessing what life span is > acceptable to your customer and what will they pay > for. > > There is no doubt that Otmar and I can design for > years worth of reliable > service, But that makes for expensive gear. > > Stuffing 1000 amps of Fets in a rebuilt Curtis case, > dialing up the Amps, > then handing it off as a 1000 amp controller, is > cheap and easy. How many > folks can say they have done this and have more than > a year's worth of On > Road time on the controller???? Not many I hear, and > there have been more > than a few returns. Put this same controller in a > Golfcart, and 10 small > AGMS, and wimpy cable, and run it a few times a > month, maybe... and you have > a nice show Cart, with maybe a hour run time a year > on it. Yup.... should > work pretty good in that application. > > But... You can see the limits... and the trade offs. > No matter how tough > they get built there is some fool who will find a > way to break it. Otmar > fears My dyno... As well he should I can do stuff to > motors and controllers > that is just plain Rude.. and take picture while I > am at it... > > For the most part a Zilla 2K can dish out the watts > faster than the > batteries can make it and for longer than the motor > can take it. So I think > my Z2K is pretty safe. > > Until Jim and John get here.... ask for How many > amps and for how long????? > > Madman > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 4:40 PM > Subject: Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing > > > > At 12:45 PM 27/05/05 -0700, cowtown wrote: > > >I guess there's a demand for mega-controllers in > the golf cart business, > > >because > > >these guys supposedly have 72v/1000a ones for > ~$500 and 120v/1000a for > ~$700: > > > > > >LogiSystems > > > > I'd guess that'd be a case more of runaway > spec-manship. Like the curtis > > 450A that can only make that for a certain number > of seconds, but is > really > > a 250A controller. But if there is a combined > 1000A rating of power > devices > > in the unit, call it 1000A. Which wouldn't alter > the 250A continuous > rating. > > > > I see this in all sorts of places and ways. As an > example, a customer > > turned up with a "195-Amp" welder on the back seat > of a car. I looked and > > asked myself 'how did they get that in there, how > do we get it out?'. > > Turned out to be a cheap Italian machine in a big > case. 195A at something > > like 3% duty cycle! I was able to pick it up with > arms outstreached and > > walk away with it. > > > > You get what you pay for (I bought a Zilla). > > > > James > > > >
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--- Begin Message --- There doesn't seem to be any useful information on the web about Imp Ltd., maybe someone else can find more info, here's the link:http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/business.cfm?id=590922005Maybe when John's done with the Siamese 8" he'll go for one of the septuplet versions.--Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) h:(905)279-5885 c:(416)892-5885
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--- Begin Message ---Paul Wujek wrote:There doesn't seem to be any useful information on the web about Imp Ltd., maybe someone else can find more info, here's the link:http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/business.cfm?id=590922005Maybe when John's done with the Siamese 8" he'll go for one of the septuplet versions.One more article: http://www.ipwales.com/fe_news/news_details.asp?NewsID=107&noinc=true --Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) h:(905)279-5885 c:(416)892-5885
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--- Begin Message ---Paul Wujek wrote: > There doesn't seem to be any useful information on the web about Imp > Ltd., maybe someone else can find more info, here's the link: > > http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/business.cfm?id=590922005 Odd that a company these days doesn't have a website.. appears this one doesn't. Some more info on their stuff: http://www.ipwales.com/fe_news/news_details.asp?NewsID=107
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--- Begin Message --- Why not go to the source on these EXCELLENT boards? All the speed and almost all the power of an eXkate at less than half the price with MUCH better decks and zero RF interference issues.http://www.e-glide.comIn fact, I am meeting with the manufacturer of the e-glide, David Lohrli, in about 15 minutes and we are going to cruise Venice beach to check out the eye candy and the amazing sunset.I'll be riding the beautiful koa wood special, and David will be riding equally beautiful Arbor Blunt.These boards are totally solid and unlike most of the electric skateboard manufacturers, David stands solidly behind his products offering excellent customer service after the sale.I have been a test rider for David and under my recommendations, he has abandoned the original dodgy Chinese controller and junk plywood Chinese decks. He has switched over to domestically manufactured decks and is now using a totally solid Curtis controller. 23 mph top speed, instantaneous response, excellent regen and a silky smoooth ride.It is a real pleasure to work with a manufacturer who is so responsive to his customers and so proactive in terms of product testing and platform improvement. Highly recommended!-Ken Trough Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine http://visforvoltage.com AIM - ktrough FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
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--- Begin Message ---Except the eXkate has more power (750W instead of 400W)I've ridden both boards extensively and the difference in power is minimal. David at e-glide purposefully under reports his power levels so that his boards exceed expectations. It's more like 600W.-Ken Trough Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine http://visforvoltage.com AIM - ktrough FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
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--- Begin Message ---The comments on EV say that 12V is too low, 24V is hard to keep an arc, and that 36V will do. Is there any advantage or disadvantage of going to 48VDC? My Hybrid trike has four 33Ah batteries. If I used 100 Amps it would weld continuously for about 20 minutes until 100% discharged. An optimistic figure I am sure, but do I ever plan to weld for that long? Also, my charger would be connected, upping the capacity. A stick holder, some wire, sticks, and a helmet, and I can weld. BoyntonStu
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--- Begin Message ---There is a flash video of the car "driving" at the bottom of the page. http://100777.com/node/1266 What's the date of that video? 1970's or 80's? Have to wonder if it was just running off gasoline and all that "stuff" was just props like the Delorean in the back to the future movie...
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--- Begin Message --- As Joe mentioned there is electronic commutation, but that is a differnt rotor/armature and field/stator, We can't "fix" the commutator on an existing serial motor, can we?Motor guru's please correct me. This info was from lurkers school :-)As I understand it, the DC motor is actually inside out from the AC motor, the commutated windings on the AC motor are on the out side stationary part(stator) and are on the rotor in the dc motor. The individual windings on the rotor are all connected in series with the brushes createing points of contact between the field poles. Current flows thru 1/2 or 1/4 of the windings from 1 brush to another(2pole/4pole), creating magnetic poles opposite of the field they are being attracted too.Now it gets interesting. As a bar passes under the brush the current in a given coil is shorted causeing a small amount of arcing (which we need! more later) and then it is reversed as it now sits on the other side of the brush. (Which killed my idea of inverting the rotor and using caps n diodes) The position of the brush is between the field poles where the EMF created is zero, but as the RPM increases, the magnetic field of the rotor begins to get dragged out of shape, this is called armature reaction, that zero voltage point shifts and if the brushes don't, we get a spark that is dragged off the edge of the brush and flashover can occur.The needed spark mentioned earlier creates a low friction film. Moisture in the air+the spark+copper creates an oxide film that with copper is still conductive and is a very low friction. It is constantly being worn away and being built. A delicate balance that depends on average amperage,humidity, surface speed and materials. Which explains the quantity of brush grades! and why two people with same setup at differnt climates or driveing styles may need different brush material.
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--- Begin Message ---Thanks for the insight, Rich. >Yes from the motor curves we can say about 1000 amps >makes about 200 ftlbs. >Extrapolate the curves from the ones we get from >Advanced DC. Did that for my simulations using an estimated torque curve gotten from variety of methods, from establishing a linear relationship between amps and torque, to attempting to use Euler's method to estimate the points not provided by Netgain. I now realize that either of those methods are as accurate as I will possibly get on simulating my EV without seeing actual dyno tests of this motor. But thanks for the confirmation on the torque. At least I have an idea I was somewhat accurate. (Depending on estimation method and equation, I've estimated torque at 1000 motor amps anywhere from 200 lb-ft to 240 lb-ft). >200 Hp where?? What RPM?? 200 Hp is 200 Ftlbs of >torque at 5252 rpm. This >is a fact. Yes, from the equation horsepower = (torque x rpm)/5252 when using standard units. But I'd like to see about 200 hp around the 5,000 rpm mark with about the 200 lb-ft of torque that would come with it according to equation. The transmission and differential I have cannot handle more than 300 lb-ft, and regularly it probably won't like being subjected to more than 250 lb-ft. Plus with my gearing being suited to less top speed, if I want to go 140+, I'd either need to make higher horsepower at higher rpms, or change the transmission and/or differential which would require an entire overhaul of the car. I'd be best off starting at the motor. >Otmar's rule of thumb is...never let more than 170 >motor volts hit a AvDC >motor, more than that and you will have aLOT of brush >arcing. My testing >bears this out. >You won't even get close to 120 motor volts without >properly broken in >brushes and Advanced timing. I remember you telling me 150 volts would be about the safe limit for an ADC, but that seems reasonable. The WarP 9'', on the otherhand looks to me to be an unknown. According to Netgain, it has larger brushes than what the ADC had and they rated it at 192V and if you read the warranty information published on their site, the motors are covered under warranty if run up to the rated voltage. http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html Of course, without the actual warranty received without having made a motor purchase, that could be all marketing fluff. The WarP 9'' may only be able to take 150-170V like the ADC 9''. Ever test a WarP 9'' on a dyno, or is it safe to say its voltage restrictions with regard to arcing will be the same as an ADC 9'' motor? After all, they pretty much are the same motor. >The best guess is that 1000 amps and 120 volts will >make 200 ftlbs of torque >at about 2500 rpm. On a 8 inch motor. This is about 95 >Hp. >To get your 200 Hp you will need 2000 amps or 240 >volts. With 240 volts you >will need some real timing and brush work, and maybe >field adjustments to >survive 1000 amps. >2000 amps needs the Zilla 2K. > >Or... redesign your motor to draw 1000 amps While >spinning at 5000 rpm. I'd love nothing more than to redesign this motor after I purchase it, but if I'd succeed in getting it to draw 1,000 amps at 5,000 rpm, I'd probably be pretty famous around here I'd guess. Sounds way easier said than done, otherwise we'd see more people doing it! However, John Wayland did mention that he'll be getting 175+ horsepower out of his ADC 9'' after he upgrades to the 204V pack of Orbitals and the Zilla 1k. Makes me wonder if he's modding his motor to be able to draw 1000 amps at about 4800 rpm or so at 204 max motor volts. That would be some major arcing according to your statements in this topic, unless he's modifying the brush timing on that motor. Wayland, care to share your thoughts? >Or you can find a really light EV...say a tin can >DATsun, and do well, Got the light car. 1969 Triumph GT6+, which has a dry weight about 200 pounds more than the Datsun 1200s scant 1600 pounds, but has a much heavier ICE and much more stuff that can be stripped out. The glider weights for a 1200 and GT6 would be about the same. 1783 pound dry weight minus 403 pound ICE minus 100 pounds of ICE components minus 30 pound gas tank minus 25 pounds of sound deadener, ect. After all is said and done, about a 1200 pound glider. Even less glider weight if I replace the stock seats with Mazda Miata ones, among other obvious modifications I plan to make. >About 200 Ftlbs at 1000 amps. Better data when we find >it or record >it. Can't wait. But it will probably be a while if at all. I don't recall anyone paying you for this. :-) >Things get really interesting with 750 amps and 240 >volts or >more on the motor. But... Arcing can go from barely >noticeable to sever >pretty quickly at this point. That would be almost optimized for my gear ratios as far as top speed is concerned. Perhaps I'll be able to try that a few years from now. Thanks for your answers and knowledge. This car is certainly going to be a big learning experience. Maybe I'll see you at the track some time so we can butt heads for a couple hours. Hopefully by then your rusty Fiesta will be doing better than 16s and will be able to get some traction. You and Blue Meanie should be about even with each other.
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--- Begin Message ---Food for thought. Put the names of the two reporters Tom Ryan and Gaid Hogan both in quotes into google. Like this: "Tom Ryan" "Gaid Hogan" Zero matches. Try "Action6News" One match to an already registered domain name that goes unused, of when you put the website into archive.org, zero matches. And again with google. Try "Ralph Robinson" and "Groveport" or "Ralph Robingson" and water car. No matches. Not only that, but those three laws of thermodynamics are a bitch, they sure are. Interesting joke of the day.
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--- Begin Message ---Stu and Jan wrote: > The comments on EV say that 12V is too low, 24V is hard to keep an > arc, and that 36V will do. Is there any advantage or disadvantage > of going to 48VDC? The arc itself will have a voltage drop around 20-40v (it varies widely as you might expect). The rest of the voltage is dissipated in your resistor (or random wires and clamps that serve as resistors). At 48v, this wiring needs a bit more resistance, and will get hotter. But more resistance also helps stabilize the arc better. The current won't change as much as you vary the spacing between work and electrode. Re: My earlier comment about pencils a.k.a. carbon rods. A carbon arc is much hotter than the arc between steel. Thus, you can use a carbon arc to cut metal much more effectively. It's not good for welding, but is great as an electric cutting torch. -- Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has! -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Brian M. Sutin wrote: > Hello! I just purchased an Alfa Romeo EV conversion. Pictures and > specs are at http://www.skewray.com/alfa. Nice looking EV, Brian! Comments: - I don't see anything except gravity holding the batteries in. They should be solidly secured in case of an accident. - The huge battery cables are excessive for 12v batteries. If you draw enough current to need this big a cable, you'd wreck these batteries in short order. - I don't see any cooling method for the controller. It is likely to need a heatsink and/or fan. - I don't see a precharge resistor across the main contactor. Not having one is hard on the contactor. > The batteries are shot. I charged them up overnight, waited about > six hours, measured the voltages, drove about three miles, and > measured again. I got: > > batt before after > 1 12.88 12.61 > 2 12.54 12.25 > 3 12.85 12.57 > 4 12.80 12.52 > 5 12.67 12.34 > 6 12.78 12.47 > 7 12.67 12.36 > 8 12.82 12.54 > 9 12.64 12.32 > 10 12.67 12.41 This doesn't say they are 'bad', though they are certainly not healthy. First, 6 hours isn't really long enough to wait after charging. Charge, then let them sit overnight, and measure the no-load voltages in the morning. If you still see this kind of large variation between batteries, then they are seriously out of balance. They should be within 0.1v of each other. If you have a separate 12v charger, you can try charging each of them individually until the voltage while on charge stops rising (that will constitute "full" for each one in its present condition). The voltages immediately after your 9-mile drive are not particularly meaningful, except to spot clearly bad ones. So again, let them sit several hours and then make your voltage measurements; this will give you a better idea of their relative capacities and states of charge. > Is there some sort of recommended device I can use on each battery > successively that might actually revive these a bit? Yes; it's called a charger :-) > Ultimately I only need to be able to drive to work and back twice > in a day, which totals about 9 miles. Given that, I am considering > replacing the sicker batteries with 24TMH batteries instead on > 27TMH batteries to save weight and money. At any rate, given that > I am restricted to 12V batteries, what are the perennial favorites > here? Range will be rather short with only 10 12v batteries, but 9 miles a day is do-able. If you mix 24TMH with 27TMH batteries, you will only further complicate your battery balancing and life issues. You might do this if you have a lot more time than money and know a lot about batteries, though I wouldn't try it. The 27TMH actually is one of the better choices if you are restricted to flooded 12v batteries. You didn't mention how fast you plan to drive. If your commute involves fast accelleration and high speeds, AGMs would be a better choice. -- Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has! -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Thanks to Otmar and Jim for their advice in this thread. David Sharpe writes: > I will be in Sydney in early June. Could I have a look at your Daihatsu? > I will be staying at Gymea Bay. Sure thing. Let's follow up in private mail. Cheers, Claudio<<winmail.dat>>
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--- Begin Message ---Rich has it in his shop. We got swamped with orders and have not have time to put a low voltage load bank together. It has never been charged or discharged since it arrived. I can charge it but cannot discharge it yet. Do you think it needs charged? Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:27 PM Subject: Re: Kokam powered Electric Imp does 58 miles at 65 mph > > Cliff > > www.ProEV.com > > BTW Joe, What is happening with that cell? >
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--- Begin Message ---Hoax. http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_4_8_3.html The "inventor", Stanley Meyer who died early 1998 also gets a mention along with many other claims and hoaxes here... http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html Tim Ireland South Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------- EscapeNet - Flat rate ADSL broadband from $29.90 http://www.esc.net.au
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--- Begin Message ---If you search for "Stan Meyer" and "water" 316 things come up including a hit described as: "THE STAN MEYER WATER FUEL CELL VIDEO - VHS Pal / NTSC 4hrs 1989 Swiss Free Energy Conference 1983 international symposium on NEW ENERGY " Apparently, Stan Meyer has been doing this for a while. Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Water powered car? Hoax? > Food for thought. > > Put the names of the two reporters Tom Ryan and Gaid Hogan > both in quotes into google. Like this: > > "Tom Ryan" "Gaid Hogan" > > Zero matches. > > Try "Action6News" > > One match to an already registered domain name that goes > unused, of when you put the website into archive.org, zero > matches. > > And again with google. > > Try "Ralph Robinson" and "Groveport" or "Ralph Robingson" > and water car. > > No matches. > > > > Not only that, but those three laws of thermodynamics are a > bitch, they sure are. > > Interesting joke of the day. >
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--- Begin Message ---He's dead Jim... (98?) I never said this, and will deny it, but I am on a list that discusses his "work", can't say there is much merit in most of what I've seen/read etc. I joined to try and figure out the thing and it is amazing how the people on there believe and don't doubt anything no mater how loonie it really is, or how many laws of physics it has to bend or break to work. Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Joe Smalley > Sent: May 30, 2005 11:05 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Water powered car? Hoax? > > > If you search for "Stan Meyer" and "water" 316 things come up including a > hit described as: > > "THE STAN MEYER WATER FUEL CELL VIDEO - VHS Pal / NTSC 4hrs 1989 > Swiss Free > Energy Conference 1983 international symposium on NEW ENERGY " > > Apparently, Stan Meyer has been doing this for a while. > > Joe Smalley > Rural Kitsap County WA > Fiesta 48 volts > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 8:44 PM > Subject: Re: Water powered car? Hoax? > > > > Food for thought. > > > > Put the names of the two reporters Tom Ryan and Gaid Hogan > > both in quotes into google. Like this: > > > > "Tom Ryan" "Gaid Hogan" > > > > Zero matches. > > > > Try "Action6News" > > > > One match to an already registered domain name that goes > > unused, of when you put the website into archive.org, zero > > matches. > > > > And again with google. > > > > Try "Ralph Robinson" and "Groveport" or "Ralph Robingson" > > and water car. > > > > No matches. > > > > > > > > Not only that, but those three laws of thermodynamics are a > > bitch, they sure are. > > > > Interesting joke of the day. > > > >
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--- Begin Message ---One off-topic topic that definitely raises hackles almost universally on the EV list is "over unity" and "free energy" machines - devices that appear to violate the laws of thermodynamics. This pretty much falls into that category. Ryan, I don't think you were around for the last squawking match over this subject, so you may not know this, but the list consensus for quite some years has been, "let's avoid this stuff." So whether you're a believer or a skeptic, or even if you wonder if it's a hoax - I ask everyone to please keep these kinds of references off the EV list in order to preserve the peace and maintain our focus on EVs. Thanks. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EV List Assistant Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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--- Begin Message --- I did some research. Anodize sealer????? Anodized surfaces are very hard. http://www.palminc.com/chemicals/liquid_nickel_sulfate.htm There are many different solutions. I'm not sure which is best. If the Buss Bars can be anodized it would be a great advantage in hardness, durability & corrosion prevention. Has anyone anodized anything other than Stainless or aluminium. Is Anodized Aluminium a good conductor? I know Anodized surfaces are durable but are they conductive.Lawrence Rhodes Bassoon/Contrabassoon Reedmaker Book 4/5 doubler Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate [EMAIL PROTECTED]415-821-3519
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--- Begin Message --- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4551716923&category=7251 35 mph?Lawrence Rhodes Bassoon/Contrabassoon Reedmaker Book 4/5 doubler Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate [EMAIL PROTECTED]415-821-3519
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--- Begin Message ---At 1:45 PM -0700 5/30/05, Rich Rudman started asking for a 2X4 again:So... I would love to take the Curtii... power stage and slap it on a Water cooled chill plate. Stuff in the BEST not the cheapest Mosfets, Beef up the gate drive, add a current control mode shut and DSP controller, And Scare the Crap out of Otmar...He he! You must think I scare a lot easier than I do. Rich you should know that doesn't scare me one bit. I just worry for the poor duped customers that would expect it to last.Somehow your paragraph there reminds me of some time ago, let's go back to 1997 when you wrote:Now the next power stage has 12, or 14 drivers with 300-%400 more area....0.065 DegC/watt we had 0.08... We are calling this baby... the Zilla Killa... With 14 120 amp devices we will out amp Otmar at 144v.Hmmm, What ever happened to that "Zilla Killa". It never did seem to make it out of it's egg. Hmmm, now you're running my controller? Ironic isn't it. OK, I just had to rub it in. :)Of course, I'm running your charger and loving it!And I have to comment again when later you slipped up a bit writing about the Dyno:Otmar fears My dyno... As well he should I can do stuff to motors and controllers that is just plain Rude.. and take picture while I am at it...No no no, Rich, you have it all wrong. I fear FOR your dyno. That's a very different thing! :-)Push those limits, I do it all the time. :-) Looking forward to more data when we have time to get it. -- -Otmar- http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla. http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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--- Begin Message ---On 5/31/05, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I did some research. Anodize sealer????? Anodized surfaces are very hard. > http://www.palminc.com/chemicals/liquid_nickel_sulfate.htm There are many > different solutions. I'm not sure which is best. If the Buss Bars can be > anodized it would be a great advantage in hardness, durability & corrosion > prevention. Has anyone anodized anything other than Stainless or aluminium. > Is Anodized Aluminium a good conductor? I know Anodized surfaces are > durable but are they conductive. [?] No. And aluminium is really not a good choice for connecting nicad cells, if that's what you're planning. If you want a cheap way to connect these cells, try enamelled copper strip (transformer or motor winding). Remove the enamel only around the contact area and completely cover each terminal and strip-end with petroleum jelly. Just a thought. -- EVan http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
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