EV Digest 4404
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) NO ATTACHMENTS please!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS please!
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Selling scooters, Cal Law change
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS please!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) EV Grin - a test ride report
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS please!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS please!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Alfa Romeo Conversion
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS please!
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) First Ev Outing... long
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Who has some EV videos?
by "Alaric G. Weigle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Blue Meanie Amazes V8 Owner
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Albright contacts zorched?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Evercels - What to do with them?
by Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Slashdot article on "New Electric Motor Design"
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Motor abuse? (was: RE: 9" Warp motor for drag racing)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Slashdot article on "New Electric Motor Design"
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Slashdot article on "New Electric Motor Design"
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Please DO NOT send file attachments to the EV list.
DEFINITELY don't send large ones!
Previously, the SJSU listserver filtered attachments as an antivirus
strategy. The server is currently scanning messages instead. So, it is now
possible for anyone to attach large files to messages.
Please don't!
We have a number of people who read the list over dialup connections. A
large attachment can take several minutes to download, and may be of no
interest to them. In some cases they may be paying by the minute for either
internet access or the telephone connection, so they may be paying real
money for the attachment that you might have added almost without thinking
about it.
Therefore, please refrain from sending attachments. Photos and other binary
files should be posted on a web site, and a link provided in a message to
the list.
Some may be tempted to respond that "everyone should get broadband." Think
about it: the EV list has readers worldwide, and some regions - even in the
US - are not yet served by a broadband connection, or at least not by a cost
effective one. Some folks can't even afford $30 a month for a broadband
connection. Others just don't want to pay even that much. Still other
choose dialup for their own personal reasons. (FWIW, I happen to be a
dialup user myself.)
If attachments become a recurrent problem, I'll have to ask the listserver
manager to reinstate attachment filtering.
Thanks, folks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:25:31 -0400, "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Please DO NOT send file attachments to the EV list.
>
>DEFINITELY don't send large ones!
You know, you really are a jerk. I meant that to go directly to Stu,
screwed up and sent it to the list by mistake. Before I could even
get an appology out, you jump in with this crap. I know you're
sitting there with a hair trigger waiting to scold me and a few others
but geez, this is ridiculous.
To everyone else, my appologies for sending that attachment to the
list. Pure wasted bandwidth since the picture was of low quality.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<< When all these low powered vehicles came out the cops didn't know what to do
as the Zappys were considered bicycles. They did like 9mph. In the old
book motor assist bikes could go 18 mph with no problem. PROBLEM. Every
single class of scooter was modable and now because of the carnage you must
be licensed. LR>>>
Here's what is listed now in the CA Drivers' Handbook:
-- Class M1: You may operate any 2-wheel motorcycle or motor driven cycle.
-- Class M2: You may operate any motorized bicycle, or moped, or any bicycle
with an attached motor.
-- NOTE: Class M1 or M2 is added to any other class license after passing law
and skill tests.
-- NOTE: Starting January 1, 2005, a Class C license is required to operate a
motorized scooter.]
In addition, you're worse off than NEVs, which can't go faster than 25mph on
anything posted faster than 35mph:
-- Infraction per Section 21235(b): Operating a motorized scooter on a
highway with a posted speed limit in excess of 25 miles per hour unless the
motorized scooter is operated within a bicycle lane.
-- Infraction per Section 22411: No person shall operate a motorized scooter
at a speed in excess of 15 miles per hour.
Of course, whether a cop will know all this stuff is kind of a crapshoot; my
town has cracked down on pocket bikes, so *they* keep up to date. Stock stuff
will fly under their radar, and at least you don't have to license scooters or
e-bikes, so the new CA laws keep these away from the unlicensed (kids and those
who won't or can't get one) - not really draconian, more like overly protective.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<You know, you really are a jerk. I meant that to go directly to Stu,
screwed up and sent it to the list by mistake. Before I could even
get an appology out, you jump in with this crap. I know you're
sitting there with a hair trigger waiting to scold me and a few others
but geez, this is ridiculous.
To everyone else, my appologies for sending that attachment to the
list. Pure wasted bandwidth since the picture was of low quality.
John>>>
Here's a bit of info in case others would like the ability to pick which post
title to open while leaving your inbox untouched:
read posts at http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/ and you'll
never see anything resembling an attachment anyway (there is another Yahoo EV
group, but that's a digest-only version - less real-time). I have listproc set
to no email so I can still post. One drawback is a few authors' names get
listed as "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" (including any of mine). Those who dislike Yahoo
will be
happy to know the public has access to messages.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's excerpt from my latest blog entry. I finally got to take my
electric motorcycle out for a real test spin.
...Today, however, was a really good electric motorcycle day. I put
the fairing on as best I could fit it (yummm... zip ties) and headed
to my friend Bill's house. Bill lives in an area that's pretty clear
of cars so we don't have to worry about getting run over or 'the man'
hassling us. I decided it would be a good idea to let Bill be the
first to put the bike though its paces for a couple of reasons: 1)
Bill's a former class champion motorcycle road racer who knows bike
setup and 2) it's Bill who donated the Hawker batteries through his
company MacRamDirect.com. So basically, there wouldn't be an
electric motorcycle without him.
We trucked the bike out to the secret proving grounds not far from
Bill's house. The roads are mostly flat with some small hills and a
couple of stop signs. See the photo section. As we rolled the bike
out the back of the truck, Bill commented about the weight or lack
there of, actually. I'm not sure how to weight such a thing, but it
is way lighter than a stock CBR F3. I gave Bill a quick run down on
how the bike works. "If this light turns red, pull over. If it
blinks, jump off the bike and run like hell. Oh, and never ever
press this button - it's the history erase button." Bill's a quick
study....
To read the rest visit the website: http://www.electricmotorcycles.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
David is not a jerk. I appreciate very much that he monitors the list to
maintain our rules. I use a mail package which recognizes only text so I
do not want megabytes of junk I can't see. Had David not called attention
to the attachment rule others might have assumed it was no longer
pertinent and started flooding us with huge files.
Thanks David.
Gail
On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Neon John wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:25:31 -0400, "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >Please DO NOT send file attachments to the EV list.
> >
> >DEFINITELY don't send large ones!
>
> You know, you really are a jerk. I meant that to go directly to Stu,
> screwed up and sent it to the list by mistake. Before I could even
> get an appology out, you jump in with this crap. I know you're
> sitting there with a hair trigger waiting to scold me and a few others
> but geez, this is ridiculous.
>
> To everyone else, my appologies for sending that attachment to the
> list. Pure wasted bandwidth since the picture was of low quality.
>
> John
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
David Roden wrote:
> We have a number of people who read the list over dialup connections. A
> large attachment can take several minutes to download, and may be of no
> interest to them. In some cases they may be paying by the minute for either
> internet access or the telephone connection, so they may be paying real
> money for the attachment that you might have added almost without thinking
> about it. Some may be tempted to respond that "everyone should get
> broadband." Think
> about it: the EV list has readers worldwide, and some regions - even in the
> US - are not yet served by a broadband connection, or at least not by a cost
> effective one. Some folks can't even afford $30 a month for a broadband
> connection. Others just don't want to pay even that much. Still other
> choose dialup for their own personal reasons. (FWIW, I happen to be a
> dialup user myself.)
David, thanks soooo much, for posting this! I'm a big fan of a fast Internet
connection
and when I travel, the Ethernet cable gets packed in with my laptop, as most of
my hotels
have broadband service. After having to use my s-l-o-w dialup at home, it's
always
refreshing to join the high speed folks. I don't have broadband at my house,
because
unbelievably here in the large city of Portland, in my particular neighborhood,
it's still
not available! I call regularly to my telephone service provider, but just in
my little
corner of the area here, it's not available :-( Cable modem? Nope, not for
me... been
calling to see about that, too. Yes, I can get it, only if I agree to some
goofy 'package'
that includes stupid programming of 100s of channels of garbage TV, all for
just $60-$85 a
month. I have my own 7 foot dish that I've owned for 15 years now, no monthly
payments for
premium channels, and yet I get hundreds of 'interesting' satellite broadcasts,
including
my favorite direct news feeds, so I have no interest in paying a king's ransom
just to get
a high speed internet connection. It's frustrating, as I pay about $35 every
month for a
second telephone line that's solely used as my uninterrupted computer link to
the
world...I don't even know what the telephone number is, because it's never used
for anything
other than my internet connection. It's very annoying knowing that for the same
or even a
few dollars less every month, I could have DSL....only if it were available!
I get very annoyed when countless others assume everyone has a high speed
connection. I
get sent huge files that lock up my computer for 1/2 hour - 1 hr at a time as
their
unwanted downloads, sometimes of stupid Microshaft stuff I can't even (nor want
to) open
comes in unsolicited. It's usually some dull movie I don't even want, or
something someone
thought was entertaining. Yes, I can have my ISP set a limit of file sizes that
come in
that automatically reject stuff, but I need to have the ability to get large
files when I
'do' want them.
When and if I ever do get a fast connection here, I'll never be one of those
who assumes
everyone else has a fast connection. I know that John De Armond accidentally
sent an
attachment, and this is not directed at him, but David's message really talked
to me.
See Ya...John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I suspect rotational life of a pot is much the same as cycle life of a battery.
Does rotating to 25% position and back to zero count as one rotation, like
discharging a battery to 75% SOC and charging it to 100% counts as one
cycle? Not all rotations are the same just as not of battery cycles are
the same. A rotation at 1 RPM results in a different amount of wear then a
rotation at a 1000 RPM . And when is a pot completely dead is much like
when are there no more cycles left in a battery.
To many variables to nail down an exact meaning that will be accepted by
everyone.
______________
Andre' B.
At 03:47 PM 6/1/2005, you wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
Also note that good pots are expensive. A good one that's sealed and has
a high rotational life will cost you $10-$20.
How about $150 for special Bosch one (which practically never fails)?
BTW, what exactly is meant by "rotational life?
Does 100,000 rotations only means the shaft will not get too loose
or jam or stuck if rotated limit to limit, or it *also* means
resistive element will also me smooth, in good contact and not
noisy? A pot may electrically fail to meet its specs far
before it fails mechanically.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:19:40 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Here's a bit of info in case others would like the ability to pick which post
>title to open while leaving your inbox untouched:
>
>read posts at http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/ and you'll
>never see anything resembling an attachment anyway (there is another Yahoo EV
>group, but that's a digest-only version - less real-time). I have listproc set
>to no email so I can still post. One drawback is a few authors' names get
>listed as "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" (including any of mine). Those who dislike Yahoo
>will be
>happy to know the public has access to messages.
I'm on dial-up about half the time so I'm sensitive to large
attachments. What I do when I see a large one trying to come over the
dialup, I just go to the web mail interface associated with my email
accounts and move it out of the POP queue so that I can get it when
I'm back on DSL.
I also have a program I got from cnet.com that lets me look at the POP
queue and delete things I don't want to download. I can't recall the
name of the program but it was free.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all!
It's been a week now. I've had time to reflect on my first EV experience
and I guess my nerves have settled enough to write about it. Here goes...
Prologue: I've been reading furiously all the EV stuff I can possibly
absorb on the EVDL and I've emailed a few of you off line to talk on
specific issues for a little over 2 months so that should now qualify me at
least as a virgin newbie. In my everyday job for Uncle Sam, I travel all
over the US. One day I happen to notice that Bill Dube' lives in Denver and
just by happenstance I was going to be in Denver the end of May. I emailed
him earlier about his Wabbit and the KillaCycle so I asked him if I could
stop by and see them when I was in town. He very quickly responded and said
any time. I took him up on that offer and here's how it went...
My story (and I'm sticking to it): It was a fine Tuesday evening and Bill
said to stop by after 7 PM. I took my buddy Wayne with me and off we went
on our excursion into Denver. After dinner at the Wynkoop Brewing Company
(when in Denver you should stop here... the beer is brewed on site and is
fantastic) we made our way to Bill's place. We got there at about 10
minutes after 7 and knocked on the door. Bill's wife came to the door and
was very concerned about answering it with two strangers standing there. I
explained through the storm door who I was and that Bill said to come by
after 7 to see the EV. She seemed a little relieved that we weren't there
to do her harm. Of course, I don't think anyone would want to go there,
considering the size of Bill's German Shepherd and Retriever. Large dogs,
and I think they show teeth on command. She explained that Bill wasn't home
yet from work but she expected him any time. I was a little disappointed
but didn't want to abandon the whole evening so I gave her my cell phone
number and asked her to call if he got home soon and we'd come back.
Besides, after two beers and a large water at the Wynkoop... well, nature
was calling. We got back in our rental (Chrysler minivan, woohoo) and
headed out to find a facility to use. We got to the end of the block and I
heard a horn honk. I looked around and didn't see that I had hit anyone or
was causing any traffic problems so I continued on our journey undaunted in
my quest for a bathroom. We got about 2 blocks away and my phone rang. It
was that lovely wife of Bill's and she said we just missed him. I told her
we'd be right back and I hung a quick left and drove back to Bill's.
When we arrived, Bill was waiting at the front step with the neighbor. I
think he must have heard the horn and came to investigate. After
introductions, I asked Bill for his indulgence with our call of nature and
he ushered us into the house. What a lovely old home with lots of eclectic
decorations obviously collected over many years.
Refreshed and ready for our 'excellent' adventure, Bill took Wayne and I to
the den of the infamous Wabbit! As he opened the door, I peaked around the
shelves and there it sat, quietly humming in a low purr. Wabbits purr you
know. I asked about the purr and learned that it was actually a small water
pump cooling system for his batteries. I was surprised when Bill opened the
hood. I was expecting to see a bunch of Yellow Tops and instead was greeted
with all these white batteries with hoses and cables running between them.
Bill explained that he had retired the YTs and splurged on 144 volts of
NiCads. I was duly impressed; that had to set him back a pretty penny. As
I stood gawking into the mouth of the beast, Wayne nudged me and told me to
shut my mouth and wipe my chin. I finally started asking questions and
after at least 30 minutes we moved on to the rest of the little red beastie.
Wabbits have secret hiding places for batteries and this one was stuffed
full in every opening. Under the back seat, in the trunk, any where he
could stuff them. There were a total of 24 batteries stuffed in there and I
don't think the poor animal could hold another one. Bill opened the trunk
(if you can call it that) and there sat the fresh clean green PFC20 from the
'Madman' at Manzanita Micro. If the motor is the heart of the beast then
this was surely the mother's milk being poured in. I paid proper homage to
the green box as I had to once again close my mouth and wipe my chin. Bill
explained that if I get one of these I need to pay proper attention to it
when charging my batts. He had a runaway one night when the batteries got
hot and dropped the voltage in the finishing stage. Apparently this is a
dangerous thing and can cause the charger to drop out of the finish cycle
and start back into the regular charging mode. Bill was explaining that the
charger needs to be modified just a little to keep this from happening. He
almost lost his NiCads because of that. He came out one morning and found
the charger still charging after the whole night and the batteries were near
dry from the venting. He explained that once the cycle of heat and voltage
get out of whack, they spiral into a mean cascade of reduced voltage from
heat and then the charger peaks to full charge which then creates more heat,
etc... You get the picture here. Not a good thing for batteries.
Undaunted, I still want a PFC from the 'Madman'. It's the best charger out
there. We were going to go for a ride now, but decided that since it was
starting to get dark, we should look at the KillaCycle now.
Well... If you love speed, here is one master to bow too. Bill opened the
killer's lair and we gazed in at the White Death. First impressions are
everything and this monster makes one heck of a first impression. That 11"
tire sticking out the back end of this beast is enough to make a grown man
weak in the knees. I was impressed... Wayne had to nudge me again. After a
proper moment of silence (and chin wiping) I asked if we could see the heart
of this monster so Bill took off the shell and there I was greeted with the
brains of this beast... the Zilla 1K and Hairball. I felt a tear
building... After composing myself (more chin wiping) I was able to ask
more questions. Bill began by explaining Otmar's brilliance... We stood
there talking so long, Bill had to get a flashlight so I could still see
what we were talking about. I was again duly impressed. It was time to
close the Killer's lair and let it rest so we could take that promised ride
in the Wabbit.
We made our way back into the Wabbit's den. Bill unplugged it and opened
the door so he could back out. We stood aghast at hearing nothing but
gravel under the tires as the Red Wabbit backed out. More impressed...
Bill opened the top so we could enjoy the wonderful Denver evening. The
weather couldn't have been better. It was just about dusk so Wayne and I
hopped in for our maiden voyage in an EV. Well let me tell you... it was
cherry poppin' time! Bill turned the key and explained that we should
listen for the click. That barely audible sound of the contactor shutting.
Once we heard that, he said, "hang on!" Away we went, tires throwing
anything in there way as we launched down the back ally. Impressed...
again. Bill had to brake hard at the street and then away we went. We
drove on for about 15 minutes. The silence of the car was deafening. Bill
explained the Emeter and other stuff in the Wabbit and then after a proper
ride down I-70 we slowed and left the highway for more city streets heading
back to Bill's place. He said he had but one more thing to show me.
This was one of Wayland's wild creations. Two, count them, two subs. One
under the driver and passenger seats. Lots of other speakers and amps out
the wazoo! This is one kick-$%# stereo! So there we were, tooling down a
nice quiet boulevard in suburban Denver blasting "Burning down the house"
from the Talking Heads. My butt was vibrating and my face hurt from the
extreme fun I was having! This experience pegged my fun meter. It ranked
right up there with the time I got to fly in an F-16 trainer and take the
controls. WOW!! Bill made my week... no... month. I was smiling so much
my face hurt the next day. I think I got maybe 15 minutes of sleep that
night. Thoughts of my first EV running through my head. What to build,
what glider to use, what motor, Z1K, PFC whatever.... finally sleep came
over me.
Well... I can't think of much more to say except that I'm still smilin' and
having trouble sleeping at night. This was a truly moving experience. Any
of you other virgin newbies out there not had a ride in a real live
butt-kickin' EV need to find someone nearby and get them to take you for a
ride. You will be hooked with a capital 'H' and be ready to open up your
piggy bank on the spot.
As I said, that was Bill and Jeff's (and Wayne, too) excellent adventure.
What a trip. I'll not forget this one.
Thanks Bill!
Jeff "newbie" Wilson Still Grinnin' ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.deadwarrior.com/downloads/AustinEV/woodburn_2003_small.avi
http://www.deadwarrior.com/downloads/AustinEV/woodburn2003_final_divx.avi
-Alaric
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Here's a place to upload them to so we can all see them:
http://www.filecabi.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> We made the right turn onto Burnside Street that is split down the middle by
> the electric MAX train tracks, and while in 2nd gear, I planted my foot
> down.....immediate, LOUD tire squealing, immediate rush forward, then a
> smooth but swift
> shift into 3rd
> and another pull up to about 55 mph or so, then a hard bang into 4th...this
> is where
> Blue
> Meanie really humps. The car catapulted from 55 up to about 85 mph in seconds,
>
> John did this exact thing to me. Same place different time. This is a real
> E ticket. A couple of minutes later he blows a fuse and coasts home. About
> a half mile at least. It seemed like level ground.
Yeah, I remember that ride, too. I used to use different, lower current rated
fuses front
and rear in Blue Meanie....they've since been replaced with beefier higher
amperage fuses.
We had done the high acceleration route down Burnside and were coming back on
Glisan
Street, a level run to my house. We rounded the corner, and I nailed it hard
again getting
up to about 50 mph when the front fuse blew...I instantly pushed the clutch in
and went
for neutral as the car kept gliding along. The distance was exactly .7 miles
that we
coasted, and if I remember correctly, we never slowed to more than 20 mph or
so, too.
> John please, you gotta
> let the list know what you did to make Meanie so easy running. I can't
> remember a car I've ever owned that coasts like Meanie. Oil or bearing or
> both? I'm sure it's one of the go fast ingredients. Lawrence
> Rhodes........
>From Damon Henry:
> You've obviously never owned a Honda Insight. I'll stack my (or for that
> matter, Johns) Insight up against Blue Meanie in a rolling contest :-)
>
Yeah, as easily as Blue Meanie rolls, my Insight's got it beat.
> He doesn't have anything that hasn't been discussed on this list 1000 times.
> Straight alignment, low brake drag, light weight, LRR tires etc... It's
> just that John is meticulous and has the experience to get things right.
>
>
>
>From Rudman:
> Tin can car...65 psi tires....not really good traction tires... but real good
> low rolling R
> really nice balance on the motor tranny and diffy. perfect alignment. Read
> Zero errors
>
>
Both of these guys have it right. The front end alignment is purposely set
straight
ahead, no toe in. The diff. is smallish to start with and has very little drag,
plus, it
has synthetic lighter gear oil in it that really reduced the drag. The wheel
bearings are
all in top shape. The tranny also has Royal Purple synthetic gear oil to reduce
drag. The
electric motor / flywheel / clutch is hand balanced and has no detectable
vibration and
revs silky smooth. Because the car doesn't get high miles put on it every year
and is
instead a short range type EV, it's now 11 year old Goodyear LRR Invicta GLR
tires are
still in remarkable shape...amazing, after all the burnouts I've done! The
tires have no
checking or cracks because they've always been Armoralled since new, and,
because the car
rarely sits in the sun for days on end and is instead, is always garaged. These
tires
really go a long ways towards giving the car low rolling resistance, and have
been kept at
50 psi since new. The tires themselves are very lightweight when you pick one
up, and
having a low spinning mass always helps range. I have a new spare set of two
Invicta GLRs
in wraps in my shop's attic that will soon replace the rears, as the tread 'is'
getting
thin back there :-) The wheels, like the tires, are very lightweight, and are
aluminum
alloys made by American Racing, known for their light yet strong wheel designs.
The fact
that they aren't monster 18 inchers, and are instead, just 13 inchers, also
keeps their
weight low. The 1200 came with 12 inch steel wheels, so even though 13 inches
by today's
large diameter wheel trend don't sound big, they are in fact, a plus one size
upgrade for
a 1200. I am planning on going back to running a set of the classic Datsun 510
- Datsun
1200 wheels, the American racing '4 spoke' mags. Technically, they're called
'Libre' but
all those who speak Datsunese, call 'em 4 spokes. The famous BRE Datsun race
cars that
dominated the 2.5 Trans Am and C Production racing classes, all used these
wheels. With
their crude and rough cast fat coke bottle-like spokes and machine polished
rims, they are
beautiful, super light wheels. The 4 spokes are to Datsun, as are the Torque
Thrust D
American racing wheels are to '65-'67 Mustangs (think of Steve McQueen and the
movie
Bullit). Yes, the car is lightweight, so it doesn't take a lot of energy to
keep it
moving. Yes, it has very good aero qualities, too, especially considering its
vintage.
Yes, it also has a small frontal area.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
I was looking things over yesterday in the 200sx to make sure things were tight
and properly connected. I noticed my Albright SW-200 contactor's contacts had
some zorch-marks on them. They weren't terribly big, and didn't leave really
any pits, but appeared somewhat black in about a 1/4" circular area.
I imagine it happened when the pack voltage dropped due to a fast acceleration,
and my DC/DC's didn't keep my 12V system up to snuff and the contactor snapped
open. This has happened 2 or 3 times. I think due to a bad connection on the
relay turning on/off the DC/DC's (I have twin IOTA's @ 55 amps each). When
only one of the IOTA's is on, the 12V system seems to suffer. Anyways, to make
a long story short...
Are these zorch marks anything to be concerned about? Will they affect
operation? How bad do they have to be to require replacement?
Thanks,
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have 24 Evercel MB80-12 batteries, new in their boxes. Shortly after
I made this (relatively expensive) purchase, Evercel kind of dropped off
the map. Emails and phone calls have gone unanswered (the voice mailbox
for warranty issues is full -- SURPRISE!) and I am very concerned about
safety issues with these batteries, given the fire that one user had
with them.
It sounds like Evercel knows about these problems because they're not
making these batteries any more, so ideally I'd like to get my money
back from them (ha ha).
Does anyone have a contact name at the company who will actually (A)
answer the phone or (B) return a call?
Absent this option, is there any kind of non-profit organization where I
might be able to donate these batteries? For example, can they be
safely used in motorized wheelchairs? Maybe a technical school that
would be able to use them for something? If you know of any, please
contact me off-list.
All in all, a pretty disappointing end to what I had hoped would be a
cool upgrade for my E-10 pickup. Now I'm looking at Valence li-ion or
good ol' lead-acids to hold me over for a few years until someone else
comes out with a battery that will give more range...
-Tom
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Snakeoil or real thing?
From IC Wales, "the national website of Wales"
http://tinyurl.com/av555
The article doesn't go into great detail, but the article makes this
sound like the first real alternative for gas and diesel engines.
Does anyone have more information on it?
------
excerpt:
Imagine an electric car that produces hardly any noise, no air
pollution, and is as fast as a Ferrari.
It might become a reality in the near future, thanks to a
revolutionary new motor designed by an enterprising team in Wales.
The motor is revolutionary in that it contains no bulky permanent magnets.
Instead it relies on transmitting electric pulses across up to seven
rotors, arranged in different phases. These are "fired up" in turn,
much like the pistons of an internal combustion engine.
There are no gears - the motor provides enough torque at one
revolution per minute to put a vehicle into motion - and it spins at
up to 2,500rpm.
"Size for size, we can provide 400% more torque than any type of
motor currently available," says managing director John Bryant.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe Borges wrote:
> I'm a 140kg scooter user and trust me an heavy 2 wheels is not something i
> would accept if my design was not so powerfull (aircraft type nicad with
> 450amp controller) at a cheap price (i don't pay a lot for nicad here ;^)
>
> you can try fiting 13 X 26ah hawker but if you succed C.G. and weight is
> going to be awful.
>
> this bike don't have enough room for your purpose !
>
> use 1100ZZR size.
>
> EX500 would be ok with 60V optima, alltrax, A89 motor on 1/4 gear ratio,
> not
> a race bike but fun...
> look on the EV album you will see that there is no small EMB upper 100V...
> the best setup is gadget EMB, a lot of small batteries though lead acid so
> still low range.
I did a rough cg height calculation (working from an enlarged photo and
paper cutouts). I can't calculate the cg of the EX500 glider, but the 13
Hawkers, A00 motor and Zilla alone (as I plan to position them in the bike)
have a cg height of just under 17". That's not bad.
In fact, my gut feel looking at the rest of the bike is that overall cg
height will be placed very well. Granted it will have a total weight of
around 600 lb., which is far from petite. My thinking is that the weight
will be so concentrated around the cg (far tighter than is possible in any
ICE motorcycle) that it will feel and respond more like a 500 lb. bike. I
can live with that. Especially knowing the Hawkers can put out over 100 hp.
A bigger frame would be a possibility. But it would weigh even more, cost
more and would likely be in shorter supply. The EX500 has a lot to
recommend it in terms of getting the most people on an EM.
The EV album shows quite a few low-voltage EMs. They are all slow. Fine if
that's what you want, but I want a real motorcycle, fully highway capable.
If this kit actually comes to be, you could easily use 12 Hawkers, wire them
for 72V and use an Alltrax controller. If there was sufficient demand for a
6-Optima version, that could be done as well. (With a somewhat higher cg -
the bigger batteries don't pack as well in the frame.)
The biggest failing of EMs in general is range. Not enough people will
spring for lithium to make it worthwhile to make the kit, so lead is the
only game in town for now. Decent range means lots of lead. No way around
that. I figure 300 lb. of lead in a 600 lb. EM (without rider) should give
decent range. As a WAG, maybe 35 miles? You can be certain that as soon as
lithium is ready for prime time I would be all over it.
Roger Stockton wrote:
> > The motorcycle I have in mind is a conversion kit for a
> > Kawasaki EX500.
>
> Perhaps you had mentioned this model before, because it is exactly what
> came to my mind when you started this thread...
Actually I hadn't mentioned it. You've just demonstrated that great minds
think alike. :-)
> > There is also the possibility of using 6 Orbital/Optimas and
> > an Alltrax controller to lower both the cost and performance.
>
> It might not be as much of a performance hit as you think... you're only
> shedding about 40lbs of battery weight, and with the right gearing and
> 72V on a 36V motor, top speed shouldn't be a huge issue. The larger
> batteries, especially the Orbitals, can dish out way more current than
> the 26Ah Hawkers, and if you stick with a big enough controller
> (possibly still a Z1K), you ought to be able to have plenty of low speed
> power/torque (which is far more important to the enjoyment of city
> driving ;^).
I'm not worried about low-speed grunt at any reasonable voltage. I'm more
concerned with having some grunt left at highway speed. Being able to just
reach 70 mph with no acceleration left is not my idea of fun (or safe). I
picked a 90 mph limit assuming that would still allow me to climb a modest
grade at 80 mph or be able to get around traffic at 70 mph. I really have
no idea if that's a good assumption.
> > I've read that over-volting a motor can be hard on brushes,
> > but I thought amps were the brushes' biggest enemy - and more
> > volts means *less* amps while bopping around town.
>
> I'll throw my 2 cents in while waiting for the real motor gurus to
> uncloak...
>
> More amps = more heat, which is bad. However, more voltage equals a
> greater likelihood of arcing and flashover/fireballing the commutator.
> It is not just the voltage, but the current at that voltage; that is you
> cannot apply high current and high voltage at the same time without
> flirting with disaster (applogies to Molly Hatchet ;^). The higher the
> voltage, the less current you can safely apply. Problem is that at low
> motor speeds (low voltage) you want the controller to allow high current
> for good torque/low speed power but that current limit needs to reduce
> as motor speed/voltage increases. As far as I know, even the mighty
> 'Zilla does not (yet?) offer the ability to program such a current limit
> profile; you can set a current limit, and a voltage limit, but not
> something that varies.
I believe Reverend Gadget said his A89-powered EMW has plenty of low-end
grunt, and that's with a 400 amp(?) controller. Perhaps the answer here is
to dial up the motor amps limit, but turn down the battery amps to something
fairly low. Wouldn't that have the effect of starting strong, but reducing
the amps available to the motor as speed increases?
> > And I've also read that an over-volted motor is hard on its
> > controller because it keeps it in current limit longer.
> > Again, in around-town use, is that a concern?
>
> I don't know that this is an absolute; it depends on how big the
> controller is and how fast the motor builds back EMF (i.e. how fast the
> current it sucks falls off as RPM build). Certainly, running a battery
> pack significantly higher in voltage than the motor's nameplate will
> allow the controller to pump more current into the motor at higher RPM
> (i.e. for longer after a standing start), but on such a light vehicle it
> may be that an over-volted small motor simply can't pull the full 1000A
> that a Z1K can deliver for long enough to be any harder on the
> controller than a less-over-volted motor in a heavier typical
> conversion. That is, normal operation in a converted on-road car might
> be just as hard on the controller.
This is one reason I chose a Zilla for my LeSled EV. A 3000 lb. car using a
48V motor at 120V is rather harsh treatment. Otmar is pretty confident it
won't be a problem. (I have a 96V motor I still have to install sometime.)
An 800 lb. EM (bike and rider) is a pretty light load. I'm thinking
(hoping) that controller abuse is not an issue.
> > And finally, a Zilla Z1k would allow me to dial in any
> > maximum motor voltage I'd like. Might there be a happy
> > medium that would allow it to spin up to maybe 6500 rpm
> > (mechanical limit is 7500) at 90 mph on level ground?
>
> Maybe. You need to figure out how much HP you need to hit 90MPH on
> level ground, then how much torque that is at 6500RPM, and how much
> current it takes to make that torque. Finally, you would have to figure
> out how much voltage you need to hit the motor with to make it draw that
> much current at that speed. If all the planets align, you might find
> that the voltage required is physically possible to pack on a bike
> frame, and that the current required is low enough to be out of the
> fireball risk zone.
Here's a thought. How hard would it be to make a commutator arc detector?
Seems to me it could be as simple as a photodiode with a little calibration
circuitry. You could have it light a big red light to tell you to back off,
or it could directly limit controller output much like a thermal cutback.
Doable?
> My gut feel is that 6500RPM is too high to expect real power at, and
> that you might have better luck considering lugging the motor down to a
> lower RPM where it will draw (and you can safely apply) greater current,
> and then rely on a controller with a beefy current limit to restore the
> low speed performance. I think Paul "Neon" Gooch has posted some good
> information along the lines of RPM/torque behaviour and tradeoffs in the
> past, with particular emphasis on his buggy's Prestolite motor.
Yeah. It's all the experimentation, and the possibility of finding *no*
acceptable combination of gearing, motor voltage, motor current and battery
current that gives me pause. That, and the need to get my other EV running
first. ;^)
Still thinking....
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds almost like coils drive solenoids linked
to a crank shaft much line cylinders arranged
in I4 or V6 engine, just solenoids instead
of cylinders... That would be funny motor...
If coils arranged in circle and activated
by polyphase sequence, the rotation can be
quite smooth. 400% torque? Sure, all depends
on the crank size!
Victor
John Lussmyer wrote:
Snakeoil or real thing?
From IC Wales, "the national website of Wales"
http://tinyurl.com/av555
The article doesn't go into great detail, but the article makes this
sound like the first real alternative for gas and diesel engines.
Does anyone have more information on it?
------
excerpt:
Imagine an electric car that produces hardly any noise, no air
pollution, and is as fast as a Ferrari.
It might become a reality in the near future, thanks to a
revolutionary new motor designed by an enterprising team in Wales.
The motor is revolutionary in that it contains no bulky permanent magnets.
Instead it relies on transmitting electric pulses across up to seven
rotors, arranged in different phases. These are "fired up" in turn,
much like the pistons of an internal combustion engine.
There are no gears - the motor provides enough torque at one
revolution per minute to put a vehicle into motion - and it spins at
up to 2,500rpm.
"Size for size, we can provide 400% more torque than any type of
motor currently available," says managing director John Bryant.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Sounds almost like coils drive solenoids linked
to a crank shaft much line cylinders arranged
in I4 or V6 engine, just solenoids instead
of cylinders... That would be funny motor...
If coils arranged in circle and activated
by polyphase sequence, the rotation can be
quite smooth. 400% torque? Sure, all depends
on the crank size!
Victor
This is an article that I sent in earlier in the week, they state that
they are using *rotors*, so I think that this is just like a regular
electric motor, and doesn't turn a crank, with more than the usual
number of stators attached to a single shaft (plus some other tricks I'm
sure).
I had envisioned from the description something like a bunch of Lynch
(flat pancake) motors on a single shaft.
John Lussmyer wrote:
Snakeoil or real thing?
From IC Wales, "the national website of Wales"
http://tinyurl.com/av555
The article doesn't go into great detail, but the article makes this
sound like the first real alternative for gas and diesel engines.
Does anyone have more information on it?
------
excerpt:
Imagine an electric car that produces hardly any noise, no air
pollution, and is as fast as a Ferrari.
It might become a reality in the near future, thanks to a
revolutionary new motor designed by an enterprising team in Wales.
The motor is revolutionary in that it contains no bulky permanent
magnets.
Instead it relies on transmitting electric pulses across up to seven
rotors, arranged in different phases. These are "fired up" in turn,
much like the pistons of an internal combustion engine.
There are no gears - the motor provides enough torque at one
revolution per minute to put a vehicle into motion - and it spins at
up to 2,500rpm.
"Size for size, we can provide 400% more torque than any type of
motor currently available," says managing director John Bryant.
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) h:(905)279-5885 c:(416)892-5885
--- End Message ---
