EV Digest 4481
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Honda Hybrid E motor pics., Re: What does the Prius use as the power
divider?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) California Legislation Allowing ZEVs in HOV
by Joel Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: State of Charge calculations
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EV smart car
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: EV smart car
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Thunder-Sky Straps
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Pollution in small engines, Re: Rules of thumb for engine,
Generator Eff ...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV smart car
by "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: California Legislation Allowing ZEVs in HOV
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: EV smart car
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: EV smart car
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: California Legislation Allowing ZEVs in HOV
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Pollution in small engines, Re: Rules of thumb for engine, Generator
Eff ...
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: EV smart car
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: California Legislation Allowing ZEVs in HOV
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Pollution in small engines, Re: Rules of thumb for engine,
Generator Eff ...
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: State of Charge calculations - check the units
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Broward County Hybrid Bus
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: State of Charge calculations
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV smart car
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EVLN(Freedom Ride LEV, Electric bike patriotism)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jay and All,
--- "Brown, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is this the motor you are talking about?
>
>
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050705/tc_nm/autos_honda_civic_dc;_ylt=Atbv
>
gE8LYA1AKxhdH0YKqGVT.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
Same pic but different and better article.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jay Brown
>
__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And you aren't using that chassis and body for your EV? Hmmm...
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are "a little bit different now
and veterans aren't a priority,"
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian baumel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
Bradley GTII built off of a 71 beetle chassis....
--- Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What kind of car was it in?
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are "a little
bit different now
and veterans aren't a priority,"
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian baumel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
> the brushes look fine and I have an extra set... I
> doubt there is many miles on it. the motor was new
> when installed in 82 and the odometer is currently
at
> 15 mi....
>
> Brian B.
>
> --- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> brian baumel wrote:
>>
>> >The motor runs great,
>>
>> The bearings are more then likely fine then. Is
>> there anyway you can
>> get access to the brushes to see how much wear
they
>> might have?
>>
>> Even though it's 20 years old, it might very well
>> not even have more
>> then a few hundred miles on it(if that)?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________
> Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - no fees. Bid on great
items.
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking for the specific language that was used
in California to pass the legislation that allows ZEVs
in the HOV lanes. I want to try to get something like
this passed for ZEVs and hybrids in Minneapolis.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Joel
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've written a Perl script that emulates this behavior, which I've
included in this email. I can convert this to C / C++, if requested.
The next question is: Since Crem and Cprem tend to diverge, how do you
use these two differing values to calculate a "true state of charge"?
As you can see by the numbers below, the "remaining charge" and
"remaining charge adjusted for peukerts" ('rem' and 'prem',
respectively) are the same at first, and then diverge.
If this same script is run with the current set to the C/20 rate, then
both Crem and Cprem are used at the same rate, as described. Note, I
used a Peukert (N) of 1.05 instead of 1.25.
Output of program below:
C: 200 N: 1.05
I20: 10.00 Cp: 224.40 M: 1.12
Crem: 200.00 Cprem: 224.40
Current: 5.0 (5.6) Time: 20:00 Crem: 198.33 Cprem: 222.53 rem: 99.17%
prem: 99.17%
Current: 10.0 (11.2) Time: 20:00 Crem: 195.00 Cprem: 218.79 rem: 97.50%
prem: 97.50%
Current: 100.0 (125.9) Time: 05:00 Crem: 186.67 Cprem: 208.30 rem:
93.33% prem: 92.82%
Current: 50.0 (60.8) Time: 30:00 Crem: 161.67 Cprem: 177.90 rem: 80.83%
prem: 79.28%
Current: 50.0 (60.8) Time: 30:00 Crem: 136.67 Cprem: 147.50 rem: 68.33%
prem: 65.73%
Current: 50.0 (60.8) Time: 30:00 Crem: 111.67 Cprem: 117.10 rem: 55.83%
prem: 52.18%
Current: 50.0 (60.8) Time: 30:00 Crem: 86.67 Cprem: 86.70 rem: 43.33%
prem: 38.64%
Current: 50.0 (60.8) Time: 30:00 Crem: 61.67 Cprem: 56.30 rem: 30.83%
prem: 25.09%
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
my $C = 200; # Capacity, Ah
my $N = 1.05; #Peukert's component
## Calculated constants
my $I20 = $C / 20; # Current for C20 rate
my $Cp = $I20 ** $N * 20;
my $M = $Cp / $C;
my $Crem = $C; # Capacity remaining
my $Cprem = $Cp; # Capacity remaining, peukerts adjusted
print "C: $C N: $N\n";
printf("I20: %.2f Cp: %.2f M: %.2f\n",$I20,$Cp,$M);
printf("Crem: %.2f Cprem: %.2f\n",$Crem,$Cprem);
# 'T' is in seconds
#
# 'I' is amps. Negative amps is discharge. Positive amps is charge.
my @data = (
{I=>-5,T=>1200},
{I=>-10,T=>1200},
{I=>-100,T=>300},
{I=>-50,T=>1800},
{I=>-50,T=>1800},
{I=>-50,T=>1800},
{I=>-50,T=>1800},
{I=>-50,T=>1800},
);
foreach my $datum (@data)
{
my ($I,$time) = @$datum{'I','T'};
my $hours = $time / 3600; # Convert seconds to hours
my $discharge = $I < 0; #
my $Ip;
$I = abs($I);
if ($discharge)
{
# calculate Peukert current
$Ip = ($I <= $I20 ? $I * $M : $I ** $N);
$Crem -= $I * $hours;
$Cprem -= $Ip * $hours;
}
else # Charging
{
# Not yet implemented
}
printf("Current: %3.1f (%3.1f) Time: \%s Crem: %3.2f Cprem:
%3.2f",$I,$Ip,time_pretty($time),$Crem,$Cprem);
printf(" rem: %3.2f%% prem: %3.2f%%",$Crem / $C * 100,$Cprem / $Cp * 100);
print "\n";
}
sub time_pretty
{
my $seconds = shift;
my @x = (3600,60,1);
my @o;
foreach(@x)
{
my $v = int ($seconds / $_);
$seconds -= ($v * $_);
push @o, $v;
}
shift @o while(@o && @o[0] == 0);
return join (':',map {sprintf("%02d",$_)} @o);
}
Lee Hart wrote:
Eric Poulsen wrote:
I'm wondering about the SOC algorithm... Lee, I'm looking at you! =)
Here's an application note written by Steve Kahle, who wrote the
software for the Cruising Equipment E-meter:
--
Practical Application of Peukert’s Equation - by Steve Kahle
One of the most interesting new features implemented in the E-meter is
the treatment of Peukert’s Equation. Peukert describes the effect of
varying discharge rates on a battery, but he neglected to document a
comprehensive description of both charge and discharge currents needed
to determine the state-of-charge of the battery. CECO engineers have
tried to complete the description of the cycle in a practical way that
will be described below.
Discharging
Using a user selectable capacity (C) and a user selectable Peukert
coefficient (N), the E-meter calculates a 20 hour discharge rate (I20)
and capacity (Cp) based on Peukert’s equation. Then a multiplier (M) is
calculated from the ratio of Cp/C. Two state-of-charge capacity values
are tracked:
Crem = C + (I x time) and Cprem = Cp + (Ip x time)
I20 = C/20 hr
Cp = (I20) N x 20 hr
M = Cp / C
Discharge rates equal to or less than the 20 hr rate are multiplied by
the factor (M) to normalize them to Cp. Then they are used as the
effective discharge rate (-Ip). Example:
C = 200 Ahr N = 1.25
I20 = 200 Ahr / 20 hr = 10 A
Cp = (10 A)^1.25 x 20 hr = 355.6 Ahr
M = 355.6 Ahr / 200 Ahr = 1.778
Therefore a 20 hr discharge at 10 A would deplete the 100% of the
battery capacity using Crem or Cprem at the same rate.
Discharge rates greater than the 20 hr rate are calculated using
Peukert’s equation and have a greater effect on capacity, reducing the
time the load may be supplied. Example:
C = 200 Ahr N = 1.25 I = 30 A
time = (Crem - C) / I = (0 Ahr - 200 Ahr) / 30 A = 6.67 hrs
(this is time to deplete the battery)
Ip = (30 A)^1.25 = 70.2 A
time = (Cprem - Cp) / Ip = (0 Ahr - 355.6 Ahr) / 70.2 A = 5.06 hrs
(Peukert time to deplete)
As the discharge rate goes up, the greater effect Peukert’s equation
has.
Charging
When I goes from discharge to charge, a multiplier (U) is calculated
from the ratio of Cprem / Crem. Charging current is then the observed
current (I) multiplied by (U) and then multiplied by the battery’s
efficiency (CEF) to calculate an effective charge rate (+Ip). Further
Cprem is limited while rising by Crem as an upper limit. Example:
C = 200 Ahr I = +30 A Crem = 100 Ahr Cprem = 148 Ahr CEF = 90%
U = 148 Ahr / 100 Ahr = 1.48
+Ip = (30 A) x 1.48 x 0.90 = 39.96 A
This way as the battery is charged both Crem and Cprem will reach full
at the same time.
Summary
Using this combination of formulas to determine a Peukert’s capacity
(Cp), a 20 hr discharge rate (I20), multipliers for discharge (M) and
charge (U), with given data representing a 20 hr capacity (C), charge
efficiency (CEF) and Peukert’s coefficient (N), the E-meter can
calculate an accurate state-of-charge on a wide variety of batteries and
applications. The break point at the 20 hr discharge rate with the (M)
multiplier used at or below the 20 hr rate removes the portion of the
performance curve where Peukert’s equation diverges from reality. The
charge multiplier (U) used with the battery’s own efficiency (CEF)
finishes the other half of the cycle that Peukert didn’t choose to
address.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was curious if these could be obtained anywhere. Andy says "not available in
the US" and then "tell your Chrysler dealer that Andy sent you". It looks like
he got one in NY. My electric rates just went up 58% so I need to make a
smaller conversion that doesn't use as much electricity per mile as my jeep and
these are really cute. - Mark
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/27/60minutes/rooney/main704601.shtml
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If not available in the US, it might be easier to import one from Canada
rather than Europe. They are all over the place here.
You can call 3 point motors here in Victoria to find out about availability
and a dealer closer to your border crossing:
http://www.threepointmotors.com/smart/index.asp
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Hanson
Sent: July 6, 2005 12:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: EV smart car
I was curious if these could be obtained anywhere. Andy says "not available
in the US" and then "tell your Chrysler dealer that Andy sent you". It
looks like he got one in NY. My electric rates just went up 58% so I need to
make a smaller conversion that doesn't use as much electricity per mile as
my jeep and these are really cute. - Mark
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/27/60minutes/rooney/main704601.shtml
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One strap can handle 80 kg and will stretch little. Should not strap
more than 7 cells to one block. More convinient to move and if really
wan't to strap more in a row use 1-2 mm thick plate in middle of row.
(Like in Victors picture)
Reason: if cells get hot = high pressure in laminated cell design
between plates. Some cells will generate higher pressure and squeeze
middle cells and brake them (cap ventilates). BUT basicly this is
prevented with BMS. Too hot cells will be detected early enough.
200 Ah cells have 20 straps going around. So pressure will be around 100
kg after installation and while cells swell (7 cells, 1mm swellng / side
= 14 mm total swelling). By then straps are already pushing with 1000 kg
= few mm swelling detectable in pac length.
No corrosion / loosening screws in the end plates. It will take heat
nicely and with right strap material UV too.
Basicly very efficent and economical way to strap. And most important it
works :)
-Jukka
fevt.com
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
See them being installed in the motorcycle frame
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bms/dscn2971.jpg
Strap no more than 4 (with end plates) first, and then
these blocks of 4 with straps over existing straps - in
blocks of the length you need.
I can supply better photos if you need, but I'm sure you
get the idea.
Victor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not sure about that. I don't know how much they actually expand once
charged. The nylon straps with a winch will make your cells more
difficult to fit in a battery box. May be Dennis D or Victor can comment.
Steve
Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Steve wrote:
My only comment is the straps have to be strong and tight.
Would those nylon straps with the little winch work, or couldn't I get
them
tight enough?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hence my suggestions to use a better carb,
> raise the compression ratio, use an electronic igntion
> and advance it, even those that only cost $5 that
> replace points help a hole lot extending the spark
> period and making it hotter. Any good go cart shop can
> do these things if you don't want to do them yourself.
Raise compression AND advance the sparc?
Yup, that'll reduce emissions.... mostly because, once they blow up, they
can no longer convert hydrocarbons to mechanical power.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As far as I know, only the gasoline version is manufactured (or, perhaps,
diesel). I just phoned the Victoria dealership to see if they knew of an EV
version, but was told that there isn't one and no current plans for one
either. Of course, they might only know what's available for Canada.
Peri Hartman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, 06 July, 2005 12:35
Subject: RE: EV smart car
If not available in the US, it might be easier to import one from Canada
rather than Europe. They are all over the place here.
You can call 3 point motors here in Victoria to find out about
availability
and a dealer closer to your border crossing:
http://www.threepointmotors.com/smart/index.asp
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Hanson
Sent: July 6, 2005 12:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: EV smart car
I was curious if these could be obtained anywhere. Andy says "not
available
in the US" and then "tell your Chrysler dealer that Andy sent you". It
looks like he got one in NY. My electric rates just went up 58% so I need
to
make a smaller conversion that doesn't use as much electricity per mile as
my jeep and these are really cute. - Mark
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/27/60minutes/rooney/main704601.shtml
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I do not know about California, but in Colorado, the specific
language can be found at:
http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=fs-main.htm&2.0
Lynn Adams
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joel Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 1:10 PM
To: EV List
Subject: California Legislation Allowing ZEVs in HOV
I am looking for the specific language that was used
in California to pass the legislation that allows ZEVs
in the HOV lanes. I want to try to get something like
this passed for ZEVs and hybrids in Minneapolis.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Joel
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Only diesel versions are available in Canada and there is specific wording
in my purchase agreement that the car can not be exported for period of time
(like 2 years). You might have trouble with parts and service as well.
There are only 'prototype' electric versions and though I understand the car
was originally conceived as an electric they converted all real production
to gas or diesel in Europe.
Lawrence Harris
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peri Hartman
Sent: July 6, 2005 1:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV smart car
As far as I know, only the gasoline version is manufactured (or, perhaps,
diesel). I just phoned the Victoria dealership to see if they knew of an EV
version, but was told that there isn't one and no current plans for one
either. Of course, they might only know what's available for Canada.
Peri Hartman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, 06 July, 2005 12:35
Subject: RE: EV smart car
> If not available in the US, it might be easier to import one from Canada
> rather than Europe. They are all over the place here.
>
> You can call 3 point motors here in Victoria to find out about
> availability
> and a dealer closer to your border crossing:
> http://www.threepointmotors.com/smart/index.asp
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Hanson
> Sent: July 6, 2005 12:20 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: EV smart car
>
> I was curious if these could be obtained anywhere. Andy says "not
> available
> in the US" and then "tell your Chrysler dealer that Andy sent you". It
> looks like he got one in NY. My electric rates just went up 58% so I need
> to
> make a smaller conversion that doesn't use as much electricity per mile as
> my jeep and these are really cute. - Mark
>
>
>
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/27/60minutes/rooney/main704601.shtml
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh, I thought you were talking about wanting to convert one. I have heard
of EV versions in Europe, you may need to check around.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peri Hartman
Sent: July 6, 2005 1:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV smart car
As far as I know, only the gasoline version is manufactured (or, perhaps,
diesel). I just phoned the Victoria dealership to see if they knew of an EV
version, but was told that there isn't one and no current plans for one
either. Of course, they might only know what's available for Canada.
Peri Hartman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, 06 July, 2005 12:35
Subject: RE: EV smart car
> If not available in the US, it might be easier to import one from Canada
> rather than Europe. They are all over the place here.
>
> You can call 3 point motors here in Victoria to find out about
> availability
> and a dealer closer to your border crossing:
> http://www.threepointmotors.com/smart/index.asp
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Hanson
> Sent: July 6, 2005 12:20 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: EV smart car
>
> I was curious if these could be obtained anywhere. Andy says "not
> available
> in the US" and then "tell your Chrysler dealer that Andy sent you". It
> looks like he got one in NY. My electric rates just went up 58% so I need
> to
> make a smaller conversion that doesn't use as much electricity per mile as
> my jeep and these are really cute. - Mark
>
>
>
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/27/60minutes/rooney/main704601.shtml
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lynn, That link just brought up the Lexis Nexis site. Do you have the statute
number?
> Stephen Paschke
> Senior Consultant
> Keane, Inc.
> Office 303-607-2993
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Adams, Lynn
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 2:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: California Legislation Allowing ZEVs in HOV
Well, I do not know about California, but in Colorado, the specific
language can be found at:
http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=fs-main.htm&2.0
Lynn Adams
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry, thanks for your response. Maybe I missed something, but I see no
real evidence - solid numbers - presented here.
You have a design for a potentially salable EV that includes a range
extender. The concept is an interesting one, you've put a lot into it, and
it's natural that you want to defend it. But until you show me your
measured emissions that demonstrate that your EV driven across the US with
its RE running emits markedly less CO/HC/NOx per mile - and even uses less
energy - than a state of the art highly efficient ICE on the same route,
it's still just words.
Heck, I'll even settle for very carefully calculated specs. But, with all
due respect, generalities aren't what I'm looking for.
Sorry, I can't point out a 60 lb auto engine that produces 10-15hp, I have
no clue about such stuff. Maybe someone else can. But from my standpoint
it's unnecessary. My argument is that the average driver is better off
skipping the RE entirely and just taking a nice clean ICE on long trips.
Again, I mean no disrespect; I just want something more than conjecture.
I'm really sorry if this annoys or disturbs you.
Good luck,
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could always go for an It from Dynasty. http://www.itiselectric.com/
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peri Hartman
Sent: July 6, 2005 1:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV smart car
As far as I know, only the gasoline version is manufactured (or, perhaps,
diesel). I just phoned the Victoria dealership to see if they knew of an EV
version, but was told that there isn't one and no current plans for one
either. Of course, they might only know what's available for Canada.
Peri Hartman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, 06 July, 2005 12:35
Subject: RE: EV smart car
> If not available in the US, it might be easier to import one from Canada
> rather than Europe. They are all over the place here.
>
> You can call 3 point motors here in Victoria to find out about
> availability
> and a dealer closer to your border crossing:
> http://www.threepointmotors.com/smart/index.asp
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Hanson
> Sent: July 6, 2005 12:20 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: EV smart car
>
> I was curious if these could be obtained anywhere. Andy says "not
> available
> in the US" and then "tell your Chrysler dealer that Andy sent you". It
> looks like he got one in NY. My electric rates just went up 58% so I need
> to
> make a smaller conversion that doesn't use as much electricity per mile as
> my jeep and these are really cute. - Mark
>
>
>
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/27/60minutes/rooney/main704601.shtml
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Found one for Colorado.
(2.5) (a) (I) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (d) of this subsection
(2.5), a motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight of twenty-six thousand
pounds or less that is either an inherently low-emission vehicle or a hybrid
vehicle may be operated upon high occupancy vehicle lanes without regard to the
number of persons in the vehicle and without payment of a special toll or fee.
The exemption relating to hybrid vehicles shall apply only if such exemption
does not affect the receipt of federal funds and does not violate any federal
laws or regulations.
(II) As used in this subsection (2.5), "inherently low-emission vehicle" or
"ILEV" means:
(A) A light-duty vehicle or light-duty truck, regardless of whether such
vehicle or truck is part of a motor vehicle fleet, that has been certified by
the federal environmental protection agency as conforming to the ILEV
guidelines, procedures, and standards as published in the federal register at
58 FR 11888 (March 1, 1993) and 59 FR 50042 (September 30, 1994), as amended
from time to time; and
(B) A heavy-duty vehicle powered by an engine that has been certified as set
forth in sub-subparagraph (A) of this subparagraph (II).
(III) As used in this subsection (2.5), "hybrid vehicle" has the meaning
established in section 39-22-516 (2.5) (a) (II.5), C.R.S.
(b) No person shall operate a vehicle upon a high occupancy vehicle lane
pursuant to this subsection (2.5) unless the vehicle:
(I) Meets all applicable federal emission standards set forth in 40 CFR sec.
88.311-93, as amended from time to time, or, subject to subparagraph (I) of
paragraph (a) of this subsection (2.5), is a hybrid vehicle; and
(II) Is identified by means of a circular sticker or decal at least four inches
in diameter, made of bright orange reflective material, and affixed either to
the windshield, to the front of the side-view mirror on the driver's side, or
to the front bumper of the vehicle. Said sticker or decal shall be approved by
the Colorado department of transportation.
(c) The department of transportation and local authorities, with respect to
streets and highways under their respective jurisdictions, shall provide
information via official traffic control devices to indicate that ILEVs and,
subject to subparagraph (I) of paragraph (a) of this subsection (2.5), hybrid
vehicles may be operated upon high occupancy vehicle lanes pursuant to this
section. Such information may, but need not, be added to existing printed
signs, but as existing printed signs related to high occupancy vehicle lane use
are replaced or new ones are erected, such information shall be added. In
addition, whenever existing electronic signs are capable of being reprogrammed
to carry such information, they shall be so reprogrammed by September 1, 2003.
(d) (I) In consultation with the regional transportation district, the
department of transportation and local authorities, with respect to streets and
highways under their respective jurisdictions, shall, in connection with their
periodic level-of-service evaluation of high occupancy vehicle lanes, perform a
level-of-service evaluation of the use of high occupancy vehicle lanes by ILEVs
and hybrid vehicles. If the use of high occupancy vehicle lanes by ILEVs or
hybrid vehicles is determined to cause a significant decrease in the level of
service for other bona fide users of such lanes, then the department of
transportation or a local authority may restrict or eliminate use of such lanes
by ILEVs or hybrid vehicles.
(II) If the United States secretary of transportation makes a formal
determination that, by giving effect to paragraph (a) of this subsection (2.5)
on a particular highway or lane, the state of Colorado would disqualify itself
from receiving federal highway funds the state would otherwise qualify to
receive or would be required to refund federal transportation grant funds it
has already received, then said paragraph (a) shall not be effective as to such
highway or lane.
(3) (a) Any person who uses a high occupancy vehicle lane in violation of
restrictions imposed by the department of transportation or local authorities
commits a class A traffic infraction.
(b) Any person convicted of a third or subsequent offense of paragraph (a) of
this subsection (3) committed within a twelve-month period shall be subject to
an increased penalty pursuant to section 42-4-1701 (4) (a) (I) (K).
> Stephen Paschke
> Senior Consultant
> Keane, Inc.
> Office 303-607-2993
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Adams, Lynn
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 2:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: California Legislation Allowing ZEVs in HOV
Well, I do not know about California, but in Colorado, the specific
language can be found at:
http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=fs-main.htm&2.0
Lynn Adams
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joel Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 1:10 PM
To: EV List
Subject: California Legislation Allowing ZEVs in HOV
I am looking for the specific language that was used
in California to pass the legislation that allows ZEVs
in the HOV lanes. I want to try to get something like
this passed for ZEVs and hybrids in Minneapolis.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Joel
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter and All,
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hence my suggestions to use a better carb,
> > raise the compression ratio, use an electronic
> igntion
> > and advance it, even those that only cost $5 that
> > replace points help a hole lot extending the spark
> > period and making it hotter. Any good go cart shop
> can
> > do these things if you don't want to do them
> yourself.
>
>
> Raise compression AND advance the sparc?
>
> Yup, that'll reduce emissions.... mostly because,
> once they blow up, they
> can no longer convert hydrocarbons to mechanical
> power.
I told you it was a solution ;-))
Seriously, small motors have retarded advance so
they start easier but only that setting. Where as a
good emissions or any engine wanting even moderate
performance, better emissions has a starting time and
advanced time set automaticly by mechanical, vacuum or
both so it's hard to say an engine will blow up from
that.
With a DC gen as the starter too, you can rev it
up much faster to start so you don't need retarded
starting time setting and can use the much more eff
advanced setting for better power, much lower
emissions as the fuel has more time to burn thus does
instead of staying unburned and being emited as
unburned HC's. No?
Also many of these motors have 5-1/6-1
compression ratio's that can easily stand a point or 2
higher without problems as all better engine have for
eff and better emissions.
Many modern low emissions motors now use 10.5-11
to 1 compression ratio's so 8-1 isn't a big deal, just
more eff. Many times this can be achieved by just
removing the head gasket and replacing it with a
thinner one or of 'Form a Gasket' that's made to do
this. Many times you must adjust the valves too as
their distance can change.
Or Peter, would you rather have more pollution?
How would you solve this problem?
It's easy and sometimes funny to criticize but a
good person would offer a solution too.
One of my main goals is to get our soldiers,
country out of future wars over oil, energy which you
of all people should appreciate I'd think though could
be wrong.
EV's with sometimes gens are I believe the way
out of these and on to a good economy. Now our economy
is stalled for the last 4 yrs because of oil wars and
the rising price of oil is a big part of it as much of
the oil money goes to prop up dictators and support
terrorists.
Any good racing Go-cart shop can do these mods
for you as they do it all the time along with
converting small engines to methanol for racing so can
also convert them to ethanol or E85 as it's just a
matter of changing the carb jet size and advancing the
timing, both very easy, cheap to do..
So for under $100 you can have a good, eff, low
polluting engine modified from your industrial engine
by someone else. Much lower cost if you do your own
work.
And using ethanol in a correctly set up engine
can lower emissions a lot Vs gasoline which is a
witches brew of chemicals. Same with propane, butane,
and NG which can be much cleaner than gasoline, diesel
when done correctly.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
>
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: State of Charge calculations
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 12:17:31 -0700
.
.
.
my $C = 200; # Capacity, Ah
my $N = 1.05; #Peukert's component
## Calculated constants
my $I20 = $C / 20; # Current for C20 rate
my $Cp = $I20 ** $N * 20;
my $M = $Cp / $C;
The bad equation in the original email (that it appears you took this from)
- the one with the nasty units problem- is still here. I explained it (
the problem - not the solution) in an email a couple of days ago.
The way you calculate it, Cp ( called "Peukert's capacity" ) does not have
units of Amp-hours, but, instead, amps^1.05-hours. Right away, that seems
strange for something called a "capaicity". Also, when you divide Cp by C (
which you claim has units of amp-hours) you get an M which is not
dimensionless.
Also, further on, you subtract true amp-hours from Cp. That is not valid -
you can't subract apples from oranges.
If I were you, I would go back to Peukert's original work and figure out
what's wrong here, before spending more time writing code.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like Broward County is serious about clearing out their hybrid bus
fleet. They are starting to list the hybrid buses from AVS for $1 with no
reserve. The first listing is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4560615
846
The transportation costs could be super expensive, but the parts maybe worth
something. I believe the batteries were standard lead acid.
--
Shawn M. Waggoner
Florida Electric Auto Assoc.
http://www.floridaeaa.org
Custom Honda Electric Motorcycle 72V
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philip Marino wrote:
C = 200 Ahr N = 1.25
I20 = 200 Ahr / 20 hr = 10 A
Cp = (10 A)^1.25 x 20 hr = 355.6 Ahr
This last equation is wrong. The units on both sides of an equation
MUST be the same, for the equation to be correct. Here, we have Ah
on the right side, and (A) ^1.25-h on the left. No engineer would even
write out an "equation " like that. As I was glancing through this,
just seeing a term with units raised to a non-integer power raised a
red flag for me.
Not as I see it. On the left side, you have A * 20hours (omitted
exponent for clarity) on the right, you have amp-hours. Both are
amp-hours, as in amps * hours ... ?
Also, I'm not sure why a non-integer exponent is so troubling; it's
mathematically valid. This pages clearly indicate that n is a fractional
power:
http://www.amplepower.com/pwrnews/beer/
http://www.gizmology.net/batteries.htm
Using this "equation" results in the answers being units-dependent.
In the above example, if you convert units of Ah to mAh
(milli-amphours) and solve the equation that way, and then afterwards
convert back to Amp-hours, you get a different answer compared to
using A-h all the way through. So, you can get any answer you like,
by changing the units. Not very useful, and certainly not correct.
This is probably because the 20 (C20) constant is amp-based.
Does this error mean that the algorithm used in this meter doesn't
give valid results? Not necessarily. The later calculations could
make up for this mistake ( and, probably does, since there are a lot
of these meters out there, and they seem to work) . But it does make
me suspicious about the whole thing. And, certainly, this
intermediate, step, taken alone, is wrong.
If someone is really interested, he or she could work through the
entire algorithm ( preferably with a few examples) and check it out.
I'm working on a program that implements this algorithm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson wrote:
> My electric rates just went up 58%
What was the reasoning behind that?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Freedom Ride LEV, Electric bike patriotism)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.bangornews.com/news/templates/?a=116010
Hancock man objects to reliance on oil by riding his electric
bicycle
For Carl Karush, patriotism involves a simple, four-letter word:
bike. The 60-year-old Hancock resident will tell you that he is
fed up with paying exorbitant gasoline prices, so he has adopted
a method that saves him nearly $8 each week: He rides his bicycle
to work. But Karush's bike isn't your average, run-of-the-mill,
foot-to-pedal gadget. When Carl sits on his bike, he sits on an
electric bike.
Electric bikes work by assisting a rider's pedaling with a small
motor attached to the frame. The average rider pedals 10 mph on a
regular bike. With a motor, that same rider can expect to go
15-20 mph, according to an industry Web site. This isn't a moped
- federal law defines an electric bicycle as any bicycle with a
maximum speed less than 20 mph. The average moped has a top speed
of 30 mph.
Karush's reasons for riding an electric bicycle go beyond saving
money, though that's icing on the cake. On the rear of his
bicycle, his mantra is displayed. A pole protruding from the rear
wheel grasps two flags: the flag of the United States and a flag
that proclaims "Freedom Ride" above a crossed out icon of a gas
pump. Freedom from dependence on oil drives Karush to ride his
bike.
"We're in a situation of increased, unhealthy dependence on oil,"
Karush said. "It's like, on a personal level, having an unhealthy
addiction to a substance."
On most weekdays, this mild-mannered marketing director hops on
his bike and rides along bumpy, winding roads to his job in
Franklin, plugs in his bike to an electric outlet and begins
work.
Carl was born in New York and, as a youth, summered on Cape Cod,
where he was often found on a bicycle with friends and family.
Thirty-five years ago, he moved to the Pine Tree State and has
been here ever since. His current job finds him promoting the
mission of Maine Sea Coast Vegetables, a company that produces
edible sea vegetables.
In the past, Karush wouldn't dream of making the 11-mile trip by
bicycle. After all, the only power he had to use were his
hamstrings. A friend told him about electric bicycles, and after
a little research, he decided he had to have one. These days, he
has a 400-watt motor - about the same amount of power used to run
a refrigerator - helping him make the journey.
"Every time I use the bike, I reduce wear and tear on the car and
reduce repair bills," Karush said.
In April, Karush worked with his son Sam, a bicycle technician
and aficionado employed at Ellsworth Bike Shop, to equip his Gary
Fisher mountain bike with a Windless Energy electric motor kit.
The actual motor came from a Chinese company, but was combined on
the West Coast with the nickel hydride battery pack and wires to
complete the kit.
The kit represents Light Electric Vehicle technology, commonly
known as LEV, and is fast becoming the preferred means of
transportation in parts of the world where automobiles are either
financially out of reach or impractical.
"[The Chinese] have both the momentum of developing the industry
and the motivation," Karush said.
The LEV motor is a relatively simple-looking device. It is a
small disk mounted to the inside bracket of Karush's front tire.
Wires travel up the bike's fixed fork - the part of the bike
frame that grips the tire - from the motor and lead back to three
12-volt batteries on a mounted frame suspended above the rear
tire. The batteries are connected in a series - similar to
Christmas light bulbs - and weigh a total of about 70 pounds.
Together, the batteries provide 12 amps of power.
Motor power can be delivered on demand, when the user pushes a
button and turns on the motor, or through pedal assist, when the
rider's pedaling turns on the motor. The user chooses which
design. Karush has an on-demand model that features a push-button
control on the handlebar.
While LEVs aren't popular in geographically disparate Maine, they
embody a niche market nationwide that is slowly gaining
popularity.
The average bike can be equipped with an electric motor for about
$500, Karush said. Installation isn't too difficult to do on your
own, but can usually be done at a local bike shop or by a
competent mechanic, his son said.
The Internet has mushroomed the LEV market, and now, numerous Web
sites like Zapworld.com, Electricbikes.com and
Electricvehicle.com peddle LEV goods ranging from scooters to
cars to ATVs.
A new electric mountain bike on zapworld.com sells for
approximately $799.00. The prices do go up.
LEV technology does have its limits, however. Karush must
constantly have his bike's batteries plugged into an electric
outlet or risk drainage. The batteries last about 150-200
charges. It takes Karush about four to five hours to completely
recharge a drained battery. A replacement battery costs about
$75.
All in all, Karush says he's glad he is now the proud owner of an
electric bike. The motor shaves 20 minutes off his usual bike
commute time of 60 minutes to Franklin. While he admits he would
get to work a lot faster by automobile, he says that he relishes
the freedom and enjoys Maine from the banana seat.
"I'm basically giving up 40 minutes a day for a little
independence," Carl said.
Currently there are no retailers or renters of electric bikes in
northern or central Maine. The Karushes purchased their kit
online, and Sam Karush installed it for his father.
Now that he's experienced electric bicycles first-hand, Carl is
looking to become a distributor of the equipment in Maine. Money,
he will tell you, provides very little motivation. He considers
it a chance to spread the word about a product and lifestyle he
finds fascinating.
"For me, it's part of making a difference," Carl said.
Bangornews.com Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
