EV Digest 4498
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Plastic welder
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Plasma Boy Racing website up and running
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Stupid questions
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) That good old EV grin
by cristin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Current limit!!!! Re: Advancing ETEK motors
by "Marc Michon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) 120v 6.7" ADC?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Plastic welder
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Transmission idea's
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: ICCU Ultracap Breakthrough. Will this help with SCR controller
efficiency?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 120v 6.7" ADC?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: State of Charge calculations - Eureka!!!
by "MT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV digest 4497
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) A 638 lb production 2 seater sports car : Go Jerry
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: A Trihawk Hybrid idea. RE: Jerry
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: A 638 lb production 2 seater sports car : Go Jerry
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 120v 6.7" ADC?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Transmission idea's
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) CUSHMAN
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Motor repairs, Re: Stupid questions
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: A Trihawk Hybrid idea. RE: Jerry
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: CUSHMAN EV's
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 120v 6.7" ADC?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Stupid questions
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: I can stop now
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Cobasys & Panasonic :: Expanded NiMH License
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover writes:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm planning on making my battery boxes with steel (bed)frames and then
> lining them with plastic boxes and lids. HDPE seems like the right
> material. Does anyone have a recommendation for a plastic welder? I've
> seen a variety but don't know what options I need and what don't matter.
> eBay has all kinds and prices.
I was once thinking of making my battery boxes out of HDPE, and bought one
of the Harbor Freight units. It seems to work OK for small projects, but
I didn't practice enough to feel comfortable making some large like a box.
> Do the rods have to be of the same material as the box?
Yes. I had to buy them from a local plastic supplier (Multicraft Plastics).
Tap Plastics didn't carry welding rods.
> Can I glue/bond/epoxy the boxes instead of welding?
Not using HDPE. There is supposedly a glue that will work with HDPE,
but it's expensive and I'm told it doesn't really work that well.
I've attached some of the links I found when researching working with
plastic.
Ralph
=====
Bending:
- http://www.kamweld.com/html/bending_devices.html
- http://www.mini-lathe.com/Bending_fixture/bending_fixture.htm
- http://www.crclarke.co.uk/pdf/lineben.pdf
Bender plans:
- http://www.interq.or.jp/japan/se-inoue/e_acryl1.htm
Forming:
- http://www.cityplastics.com.au/forming.html
Welding:
-
http://www.malcom.com/downloads/techtips/tips.pdfhttp://www.malcom.com/downloads/techtips/tips.pdf
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
I like your web pages. Nice and clean, without the use of busy flashing,
dancing, distracting web widgets. That said, your Plasma Boy picture needs
an animated GIF that has the lightning in the plasma ball moving around...
Also, you need some pictures and stories of stuff you've blown up! You don't
to use the phrase "...we blow things up, so you don't have to" without some
proof! ;-) That blob of fused batteries laying next to the driveway comes
to mind.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sam wrote:
> in an appliance - say an air conditioner compressor, a washer or dryer motor,
Replacement motors are available.
> a ceiling fan motor, etc.
Warranty or replace the fan.
> Question 2: How do you foresee things working in the future, when most
> everyone has an electric or a hybrid? Do you foresee lots of electric
> traction
> motors needing lots of servicing, rebuilding, etc?
Consider what's inside the motor. DC: Replace the brushes when they
wear out. The 2 bearings on the shaft should last a very, very long
time. Not a big deal to replace anyways. AC: no brushes, just 2
bearings..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeehah. Today I rode the EVT to work and back for the first time. About
15 miles there and 14 miles back (due to some one-way streets downtown
to avoid hills.)
Seemed to be a decent amount of charge left, considering the last 2
miles is about a 1% grade uphill. I will be checking my batteries with
a dvm before and after the next few rides - I am interested to see just
how much I am draining them. The EVT has only a few idiot lights
indicating voltage.
-Cristin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
400 pound honda VFR
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Current limit!!!! Re: Advancing ETEK motors
> > So my problem is I fried the altrax SPX 48v 400a controller runniing
> > ETEK in 5 miles hit 50 mph couple times cruised at 35-40 ambient
> > tempature 98 degrees do i go down to a 300 a controller?
>
> How heavy was the vehicle that experienced this failure?
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM - ktrough
> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Listers,
After not being able to pass the state inspection because of extensive
rust, I finally broke down and pulled the EV components from my rabbit. It's a
6.7 inch with a curtis and 72 volts of batteries. The plate (actually sticker)
on the side of the motor says it's a 120 volt motor. Can I actually put a 120
volt system in this? The largest rating I've seen for a 6.7 incher is 96 volts.
It also has the extra shaft coming out the other end if that gives any more
info about its capabilities. Either Bob Rice or Otmar said that they thought
the motor would be able to handle 96v. Maybe it could do more? And I'll
definitely cool it with a fan.
John Shelton
__________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Urethane Supply Company
http://www.urethanesupply.com/
Harbor freight has a nice hot air welder. I do it both ways,
depending on the situation.
On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:34:01 -0700 (PDT), Dave Cover
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I'm planning on making my battery boxes with steel (bed)frames and then lining
>them with plastic
>boxes and lids. HDPE seems like the right material. Does anyone have a
>recommendation for a
>plastic welder? I've seen a variety but don't know what options I need and
>what don't matter. eBay
>has all kinds and prices.
>
>Wattage?
>
>Temp range?
>
>Airless? (I have a compressor.)
>
>Do the rods have to be of the same material as the box?
>
>Can I glue/bond/epoxy the boxes instead of welding?
>
>Fiberglass over thin plywood instead?
>
>Any input is appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>
>Dave Cover
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The falcon shorty was around $1400.00 at some race shops, cheaper than
the other brands. It is a little harder to shift but has the lowest
rotating mass once in high gear. But the low range cannot be engauged
for long and the high range is 1:1 direct drive, only. Not sure if that
fits the EV bill. I was thinking of an always on clutch that is
disenguged when I press on the pedal instead of enguaged,. 2 or 3 speeds
and a park :-)
There is a tranny I found once for hot rods I wish I could find again,
About $600 it was a reproduction of a model A or T or something and used
bands and could be shifted under load, it was small and strong, I just
lost the link. :-(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a 120v 20 battery pack. Weighs 1400 pounds. Lee recommended 1000uf
and check again. What is the problem of putting in a few thousand? Maybe
overdoing it a bit. Are they expensive? Could I use one large one? Would
I put it/them in series? Seems it would have to be plenty tough to take 450
amps at 120v. LR........
You can add the filter capacitors yourself. You need to connect them as
close to the controller's input as you can, with as short and heavy a
wire as possible.
We don't have enough data to calculate a value, but it's going to take
thousands of microfarads. If it were me, I'd look for some surplus
electrolytics intended for switching power supply filtering, and put in
1,000uf worth. Measure your ripple current again, and see how much it
dropped. Then you can guess how much more it will take.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: ICCU Ultracap Breakthrough. Will this help with SCR controller
efficiency?
On 7/11/05, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Lee Hart said I could improve my range by putting capacitors between my
controller and battery pack. Would these supercaps be the best option
when
they are available or should I just use electrolytics and replace them
every
few years? LR.......
Supercaps are electrolytics, of a sort.
If you were putting additional capacitors on the input of an SCR
controller to smooth out the ripple current - less peukert's effect
and less heating of the batteries and cables (thus extending range a
bit), you'd want low ESR capacitors - as far as I know, supercaps are
relatively high ESR - that means, they wouldn't soak up much of the
ripple.
And, bear in mind that this is a investing type announcement, so I
don't imagine you'd get far if you wanted to buy the worlds latest and
greatest supercap anyway :)
I don't think replacing bulk capacitors is something that most people
do every few years. Maybe they're getting a bit shot after 10 years,
in an overloaded Curtis. But, if you work it out properly and fit
sufficient volume and value in the first place, and keep them cool,
there's no reason they shouldn't outlast the vehicle or the rest of
the controller electronics.
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1:04 AM -0400 7/12/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can I actually put a 120 volt system in this? The largest rating
I've seen for a 6.7 incher is 96 volts. It also has the extra shaft
coming out the other end if that gives any more info about its
capabilities. Either Bob Rice or Otmar said that they thought the
motor would be able to handle 96v. Maybe it could do more? And I'll
definitely cool it with a fan.
Hi John,
I'd be surprised if I suggested only 96V for the ADC 6.7. I'm pretty
sure it's fine to at least a 144V nominal pack voltage. I've been
wondering lately if it might pull the same 170V max of the 8" and 9"
motors. (that would give it a great advantage in drag racing) In
general higher voltages are easier on a motor (until they start
arcing) since you can get the same power out of them but at lower
current.
If you're worried about it, get yourself a temperature gauge on the
dash running off a thermocouple buried 1/2" deep in one of the
positive brushes. Watch that it never exceeds 230 deg C. 180 to 200
degrees is normal running and 250 is a absolute max temp for the ADC
motors.
If it's getting too hot from arcing, then just upshift to reduce the
voltage on the motor.
Let us know how it works out!
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First I apologize about the dumb 'read receipt.' I thought I turned that
off.
Second (BS^n)A is still a little different (BS)A and here's why:
Looking at a chart say Amps on the vertical axis and volts or time on the
other. First, the coefficient '10' in 10A is just a data point in amps,
along with the other axis' data point in the set. Now, in combination with
all the other data point sets they create a line that describes the function
showing graphically what is going on in the system being analyzed.
If it were a steady discharge, without other influences, it would look like
a straight sloped line (linear). But because the discharge rate varies due
to temp, chemical reactions, etc. it does not follow a straight line. The
line it does follow is varied by, in this case, the value of the exponent
associated with the coefficient which happens to be related to that portion
of the data points on the vertical or 'amps' axis.
This then gives a different graphical representation (line or curve) that
accounts for the other variables like temperature, chemical reactions, etc.
on the amps vs. time or volts graph.
It is my pinion that to avoid confusion the equation should be written:
Cp = (10^1.25)A x 20 hr = 355.6 Ahr
so that the Peukert exponent is attached where it needs to be.
At this point I will pay my respects to Peukert for the work done to better
understand a battery's true potential.
MT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 12:43 PM
Subject: RE: State of Charge calculations - Eureka!!!
> Why do I feel like this is an ongoing lecture in 1st year engineering?
> And just like school, some folks just won't get it, or will just continue
to
> disagree, so maybe we should drop the complaining about fractional
> dimensions in units---or do we really want to begin talking about fractals
> here?
>
> BS^n is still BS.
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Traction motors used in new design electric vehicles are one of the
simplest devices used in a vehicle. Two bearings, one stator with
three coils, and a shaft position sensor. There are few things to go
wrong. To replace the bearings, rewind the stator, and replace the
positions sensors would cost maybe $400 dollars. In fact removing
and replacing the motor would probably cost more than the rebuild.
For this reason maintenance cost for electric vehicles will be
dominated the batteries and generator.
Mike
On Jul 11, 2005, at 8:18 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: July 11, 2005 8:18:06 PM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Stupid questions
Just how is it that EV motors - or any electric motors for that
matter - get
serviced, rebuilt, replaced, etc? I mean, assuming one does not do
the work
himself, which probably many on this list do. So don't tell me
what expert
Ev-ers do. What does the "generic person" do when they have a bad
electric motor
in an appliance - say an air conditioner compressor, a washer or
dryer motor,
a ceiling fan motor, etc.
Well, it just occurred to me that the "generic person" merely
throws the
whole appliance away and buys another one. So let's say you are in
between the
generic person who forever throws away anything broke, and some
technical EV
nerd who has the skills and tools and know-how to rebuild or fix an
electric
motor himself. Say you're the guy who takes a bad electric motor
out of an
appliance, but at that point scratches his head (my Dad would fall
into this
category). What does this guy do?
In the ICE automotive world, the in between generic person who
takes a bad
part off his car will go to the nearest Autozone or whatever and
drop the bad
part on the counter, leave that as the "core," and pick up a new/
rebuilt one.
Does it function this way in the electric motor world (probably a
stupid
question)? Under this "model," it is probably too expensive in
terms of labor and
whatever else for there to be some guy in the back of a shop
somewhere who
could actually fix a bad automotive part - *your* part. Therefore
there's some
assembly line of anonymous bad automotive parts flowing out of
these Autozone
type places off to God-knows where to get rebuilt, and an assembly
line of
anonymous fixed/rebuilt auto parts flowing the other way to the
"dealer." You drop
off your bad part, and you grab a good part. We'll call this
"model 1." A
good question would also be - what is the person or entity at the
end of this
flow of bad parts who ends up fixing/rebuilding all this stuff?
Living in Alabama as a kid, I seem to remember going with my dad to
some
electric motor shop to "get a motor rewound" or words to that
effect. I remember
we left the motor, and a few days later we went back to pick it up
again.
This shop was rather large, and downtown, and I remember there
being rows upon
rows of shelves behind the dude's counter, filled with electric
motors. Under
this model, some dude actually takes your motor, takes it apart,
determines the
problem, fixes it, and you get your motor back. I think this dude
would also
sell you some rebuilt motor, if you needed one. I presume that
under this
model, the cost to fix an individual motor on an individual basis
would still be
lower than just junking the motor and buying a new one. But just
thinking
about it, this might only apply to larger more expensive motors.
At any rate,
we'll call this "model 2."
Question 1: Which way does it work, for the most part? Model 1?
Model 2?
Some other model? If model 1, name the entity responsible, in the
end, for
rebuilding the motor. You know, personally, I don't see electric
motor shops on
every corner, if ever. Are there only a few of them? Is it a good
business?
Question 2: How do you foresee things working in the future, when most
everyone has an electric or a hybrid? Do you foresee lots of
electric traction
motors needing lots of servicing, rebuilding, etc? If so, who's
gonna do it? If
the dealer would replace the motor, where does the dealer send the
bad one? I
doubt the car manufacturers themselves would run motor repair shops
back at
main headquarters. Anyone have a clue as to how this will work?
Thanks.
Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.malonecar.com/
The weight and the performance that it achieves is inspiring.
Anyone know:
What front end from a salvage yard would yield, light weight, disk brakes,
stock rims and tires, and with steering to best fit a homebrew 2F1R
Hybrid? It would have to take the weight of the batteries. Would power
steering be required because of the battery weight?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is 'snow'?
BoyntonStu
Boynton Beach, Florida
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 11:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: A Trihawk Hybrid idea. RE: Jerry
If you actually get snow buildup on roads, the 4 wheel cars tend to
make 2 ruts. I've read that the single wheel of a 3 wheeler tends to
have trouble riding on the snow berm in the middle of the road and
tends to slide into one of the ruts. I can imagine if this is the
driven wheel the problem is even worse.
> --- Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What about drive traction on slippery roads using 1
> > light rear wheel vs a
> > FWD heavy?
__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Stu and All,
--- Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.malonecar.com/
>
Cool trike. At least it has it's engine weight in
the front where it belongs.
Reminds me of a modern version of the Morgan 3wh
sportscar, the by far most successful 3wheeler ever
build winning races over 80yrs!!! In production for 60
yrs!!
>
>
> The weight and the performance that it achieves is
> inspiring.
Could be but would be even better as an EV other
than range though with li-ion that could easily be
over 200 miles!!
>
>
> What front end from a salvage yard would yield,
> light weight, disk brakes,
> stock rims and tires, and with steering to best fit
> a homebrew 2F1R
>
MG's and Triumphs are the best that many of the
successful ones use. Use the whole frame and just cut
off the very rear to take the single rear wheel cuts
much fabricating work, time, cash and gives you brake
pedal system, steering, ect, already in place.
There are lots in your area I remember.
You could even keep the whole body and just replace
the driveline, rear axle with a single wheel and drive
for even less work.
I alway try to find the easy way to do things. KIS
>
>
> Hybrid? It would have to take the weight of the
No problem as in these sizes, the batt weight
isn't that much. Neither is their cost and being cheap
is a main reason I like these.
Also in Fla you don't need insurance as we have no
fault and MC don't even require that.
> batteries. Would power
> steering be required because of the battery weight?
Never!! I don't even like it in trucks. I like to
fel how a vehicle is driving so to control it better.
If a vehicle is traveling only 1/2 mph then any
vehicle is easy to steer without power steering. It's
all in technic, knowing how to drive.
Please stop leaving all the space between lines as
it makes uit hard to read and then have to edit. 1 or
2 spaces at most between whole thoughts would be
better.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
> BoyntonStu
>
__________________________________
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Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
I agree with Otmar as if it was designed
for 120vdc, then can easily do 50% more than that.
A motor frame like the 6.7 can be wound
for most any voltage just by different wires/coil
sizes, turns and more commutator bars to match the
voltage rated which in your case is 120vdc.
In fact you will need higher voltage just
to get good power, rpm from it and will run cooler at
120-132 or more as with the higher rpm you can run in
a higher gear lowering the amps, thus hgeat needed
until the heavy arcing point gets reached, somewhere
above 144vdc.
Some put a camera on it then drive to find
at just what point that is but most likely be well
above 144vdc for a 120vdc motor.
So don't worry, be happy and get some real
power from your motor!!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
--- Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 1:04 AM -0400 7/12/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > Can I actually put a 120 volt system in this? The
> largest rating
> >I've seen for a 6.7 incher is 96 volts. It also has
> the extra shaft
> >coming out the other end if that gives any more
> info about its
> >capabilities. Either Bob Rice or Otmar said that
> they thought the
> >motor would be able to handle 96v. Maybe it could
> do more? And I'll
> >definitely cool it with a fan.
>
> Hi John,
> I'd be surprised if I suggested only 96V for the ADC
> 6.7. I'm pretty
> sure it's fine to at least a 144V nominal pack
> voltage. I've been
> wondering lately if it might pull the same 170V max
> of the 8" and 9"
> motors. (that would give it a great advantage in
> drag racing) In
> general higher voltages are easier on a motor (until
> they start
> arcing) since you can get the same power out of them
> but at lower
> current.
>
> If you're worried about it, get yourself a
> temperature gauge on the
> dash running off a thermocouple buried 1/2" deep in
> one of the
> positive brushes. Watch that it never exceeds 230
> deg C. 180 to 200
> degrees is normal running and 250 is a absolute max
> temp for the ADC
> motors.
> If it's getting too hot from arcing, then just
> upshift to reduce the
> voltage on the motor.
>
> Let us know how it works out!
>
> hth,
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
>
>
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jeff and All,
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The falcon shorty was around $1400.00 at some race
> shops, cheaper than
> the other brands. It is a little harder to shift but
> has the lowest
> rotating mass once in high gear. But the low range
> cannot be engauged
> for long and the high range is 1:1 direct drive,
> only. Not sure if that
> fits the EV bill. I was thinking of an always on
> clutch that is
> disenguged when I press on the pedal instead of
> enguaged,. 2 or 3 speeds
> and a park :-)
>
> There is a tranny I found once for hot rods I wish I
> could find again,
> About $600 it was a reproduction of a model A or T
> or something and used
> bands and could be shifted under load, it was small
The T used a panetary gear with brake bands for
shifting as do almost all automatics today.
> and strong, I just
> lost the link. :-(
>
That's probably a Lenco that's a plantary 2 speed,
direct and lower gear, per section and you can use as
many sections as you want for as many gears you want.
Similar to most overdrive units or just 1 gearset in
an automatic trans.
Many racers use the Powerglide 2 speed set up like
this too. B+M Racing Transmissions amoung others do
the Powerglide.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone converted one of these? or have tried to put one on the street? Top
Speed? He doesn't have a title so I'm not sure if Cushman had one initially.
http://www.southbostonsurplus.com/CUSHMAN.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Sam and All,
Much equipment is no longer designed to be
repaired so many small motors are designed for lowest
cost instead of repairability.
But large motors like those in EV's are
diffinately worth repairing. Not only that, but with
very little study, can be done my most anyone for most
problems. Especially anyone who can convert a car to
or build an EV.
In DC motors, 90% of the repairs are brush,
brush holder, commutator or bearing related, all very
easy to do replacements, repairs on.
But even deeper repair like very bad coms,
field, armature windings you can do the dis/assembly
and just have those with the equipment/knowledge do
what you can't, saving much money or just buy new
parts and put them in yourself.
I hope in the future to build a completely
modular motor and controller that almost anyone can
fix themselves just by replacing the bad part for much
lower costs.
I can't wait for the hybrids to hit the junk
yards in quanity as I'm salivating getting ahold of
the BLDC motors in them!!
Maybe building or converting ICE cars to
EV's might be a business for you where you are. Those
around town 3wheelers are prime candidates and simple,
cheap to do. Maybe some NGO's may sponsor some? We can
help you with any problems you may run into.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Just how is it that EV motors - or any electric
> motors for that matter - get
> serviced, rebuilt, replaced, etc? I mean, assuming
> one does not do the work
> himself, which probably many on this list do. So
> don't tell me what expert
> Ev-ers do. What does the "generic person" do when
> they have a bad electric motor
> in an appliance - say an air conditioner compressor,
> a washer or dryer motor,
> a ceiling fan motor, etc.
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David and All,
--- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you actually get snow buildup on roads, the 4
> wheel cars tend to
> make 2 ruts. I've read that the single wheel of a 3
> wheeler tends to
> have trouble riding on the snow berm in the middle
> of the road and
> tends to slide into one of the ruts. I can imagine
> if this is the
> driven wheel the problem is even worse.
A imagined that too but talking to a 2f1r owner
would drove in the winter up north said there wasn't a
problem and said he even had better drive traction
with the wheel there. Maybe some sparrow owners could
chime in here?
Being in Fla, I don't get much experience at
it;-)
Stu, ask on the Vortex3wheeler list too.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
> > --- Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > What about drive traction on slippery roads
> using 1
> > > light rear wheel vs a
> > > FWD heavy?
>
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark and All,
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone converted one of these? or have tried to
> put one on the street? Top Speed? He doesn't have
> a title so I'm not sure if Cushman had one
> initially.
>
> http://www.southbostonsurplus.com/CUSHMAN.html
>
So that why the earlier question.
I'd worry about the title problem. Check with you
local titling office to see if it can be done and how.
If you can't get a title, don't buy it. They are of
little value without a title so if you can get one,
offer him less to make up for the trouble.
One could get a mechcanic's lean title but a lot of
work and takes time. You'd ned to have it legally
leaned for work or storeage then buy it at auction
again to be legal. Your local laws may be different.
But these were built as EV and maybe still from the
factory but their $14k several yrs ago when I last
checked, costs has kept them from selling!!
And as they are not great handing, you need to be
careful but as an EV they handle much better.
Top speed could be 40-50mph as an EV. One could
easily pop a large golf cart trasaxle in place of the
ICE one for a very easy conversion.
They would make a cool EV. If I found one cheap,
I'd convert it!!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John;
Ahhh! THERE you are! Glad to see yur note. Hit me back off List as ya did
before.I'm trying to find paperwork on a better Rabbit, abandoned at a local
gas station.Still hava 88 Jetta too, for the taking, body is sound but needs
cosmetics. Tony Acrizzi built a older Golf, similar car to a Jetta with a 6
inch motor, it worked well, I remember 4 of us going out to dinner in this
rig, big guyz like me and it did GREAT in Worcester MA Citi Traffic. BUT you
had to use all the gears ALL the time, to give the 6incher a bit of rev for
cooling. Us old farts are used to gearing through trannies to get the GO
anyhow.I think he ran 96 volts, though.!120 volts ,yeah, it would go like
hell! But I think ya would hafta be very careful NOT to lug it in hi
gears!!96 gave a nice goin' EV for his wife, a turnkey EV, that we all dream
about.
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 1:04 AM
Subject: 120v 6.7" ADC?
> Listers,
> After not being able to pass the state inspection because of
extensive rust, I finally broke down and pulled the EV components from my
rabbit. It's a 6.7 inch with a curtis and 72 volts of batteries. The plate
(actually sticker) on the side of the motor says it's a 120 volt motor. Can
I actually put a 120 volt system in this? The largest rating I've seen for a
6.7 incher is 96 volts. It also has the extra shaft coming out the other end
if that gives any more info about its capabilities. Either Bob Rice or Otmar
said that they thought the motor would be able to handle 96v. Maybe it could
do more? And I'll definitely cool it with a fan.
>
> John Shelton
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EV motors will repair at a dealer ship that has a repair shop for other cars.
The motors today can be repair by just unbolting the old part and installing
the new part. The field windings, rotor or stator, brushes, brushes holders,
bearings are all bolt in units and conductors are bolted together on internal
terminal blocks (normally in very large motors).
In repairing a large alternator, all the components are replaceable by direct
bolt in which is done at the dealer repair shops. The parts will just be
replace with a new or rebuilt ones.
Unlike the older type GE motor in my EV which is over 30 years old, all the
internal parts are not direct bolt in and all wire connections must be solder
together with high temperature silver solder.
DC coils are easy to rewind. Just like winding thread on a spool. The
technician, counts the number of windings that come of the spool and install
the same number back on using the same wire size.
Changing the commentator, rewinding, undercutting and conditioning a rotor is
normally done by a motor technician that has experience in DC motor repair.
The cost may be a factor. If you take a old $2000.00 motor, and it cost
$2000.00 to repair it, it may be best to repair it if the motor is no longer
built which may be a classic that was built to very high standards at the time.
If a newer motor that cost $2000.00 is completely burn up, it will cost
$2000.00 either by repairing it or replacing it. So you as a user can repair
this type of motor by replacing it.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 9:18 PM
Subject: Stupid questions
Just how is it that EV motors - or any electric motors for that matter - get
serviced, rebuilt, replaced, etc? I mean, assuming one does not do the work
himself, which probably many on this list do. So don't tell me what expert
Ev-ers do. What does the "generic person" do when they have a bad electric
motor
in an appliance - say an air conditioner compressor, a washer or dryer motor,
a ceiling fan motor, etc.
Well, it just occurred to me that the "generic person" merely throws the
whole appliance away and buys another one. So let's say you are in between
the
generic person who forever throws away anything broke, and some technical EV
nerd who has the skills and tools and know-how to rebuild or fix an electric
motor himself. Say you're the guy who takes a bad electric motor out of an
appliance, but at that point scratches his head (my Dad would fall into this
category). What does this guy do?
In the ICE automotive world, the in between generic person who takes a bad
part off his car will go to the nearest Autozone or whatever and drop the bad
part on the counter, leave that as the "core," and pick up a new/rebuilt one.
Does it function this way in the electric motor world (probably a stupid
question)? Under this "model," it is probably too expensive in terms of
labor and
whatever else for there to be some guy in the back of a shop somewhere who
could actually fix a bad automotive part - *your* part. Therefore there's
some
assembly line of anonymous bad automotive parts flowing out of these Autozone
type places off to God-knows where to get rebuilt, and an assembly line of
anonymous fixed/rebuilt auto parts flowing the other way to the "dealer."
You drop
off your bad part, and you grab a good part. We'll call this "model 1." A
good question would also be - what is the person or entity at the end of this
flow of bad parts who ends up fixing/rebuilding all this stuff?
Living in Alabama as a kid, I seem to remember going with my dad to some
electric motor shop to "get a motor rewound" or words to that effect. I
remember
we left the motor, and a few days later we went back to pick it up again.
This shop was rather large, and downtown, and I remember there being rows
upon
rows of shelves behind the dude's counter, filled with electric motors.
Under
this model, some dude actually takes your motor, takes it apart, determines
the
problem, fixes it, and you get your motor back. I think this dude would also
sell you some rebuilt motor, if you needed one. I presume that under this
model, the cost to fix an individual motor on an individual basis would still
be
lower than just junking the motor and buying a new one. But just thinking
about it, this might only apply to larger more expensive motors. At any
rate,
we'll call this "model 2."
Question 1: Which way does it work, for the most part? Model 1? Model 2?
Some other model? If model 1, name the entity responsible, in the end, for
rebuilding the motor. You know, personally, I don't see electric motor shops
on
every corner, if ever. Are there only a few of them? Is it a good business?
Question 2: How do you foresee things working in the future, when most
everyone has an electric or a hybrid? Do you foresee lots of electric
traction
motors needing lots of servicing, rebuilding, etc? If so, who's gonna do it?
If
the dealer would replace the motor, where does the dealer send the bad one?
I
doubt the car manufacturers themselves would run motor repair shops back at
main headquarters. Anyone have a clue as to how this will work?
Thanks.
Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't actually measure it with a ruler but stopping on a 30% grade test
hill it's about 1/3rd the distance to stop as before, similar to a normal
vehicle when you jam on the brakes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:33 PM
Subject: Fwd: I can stop now
> --- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > It can screech to a stop *much* faster than before during a panic stop
and can lock up the
> > wheels now. I did this a few years back (in the late 70's) on a willy's
jeep went to the 10"
> > brakes with similar results (from a larger Jeep Wagoneer).
> > Mark
>
> Did you measure the before and after stopping distances?
>
> Dave Cover
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Found this on the ET list. Does this mean more EV batteries?
Subject: Cobasys & Panasonic :: Expanded NiMH License
From:
http://www.cobasys.com/news/20050706.htm
via: Josh Landess JOSHL1@ MAIL.COM
Cobasys and Panasonic EV Energy Extend Cooperation and Agree to Expanded
License Terms
ORION, Mich., July 6, 2005 -- Cobasys announced today that they have granted
additional royalty-bearing license rights to Panasonic EV Energy (PEVE), a
joint venture between Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (MEI) and
Toyota Motor Corporation. The expanded rights will permit PEVE to solicit
and sell Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) battery products for certain North
American transportation applications. In return, Cobasys will receive
royalties on PEVE North American sales of NiMH battery products through
2014.
"We believe this agreement will complement our core business strategies,
provide additional revenue, and enhance our progress toward achieving full
manufacturing capacity at our Springboro, Ohio plant," said Thomas S.
Neslage, President and CEO of Cobasys.
Under the terms of the expanded agreement, Cobasys and PEVE will continue to
cross license each other for current and future patents through 2014. They
will also maintain their technical cooperation to advance the
state-of-the-art NiMH battery products and continue their joint development
for the next generation of high performance NiMH battery products for hybrid
electric vehicles (HEVs). The parties have also agreed to evaluate the
feasibility of assembling PEVE battery packs at the Cobasys Springboro,
Ohio, manufacturing facility.
Cobasys designs and manufactures advanced Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH)
battery system solutions for transportation markets, including HEV, Electric
Vehicles (EV) and 42 volt applications, in addition to Stationary Back-Up
power supply systems for Uninterruptible Power Supply systems (UPS), Telecom
and Distributed Generation requirements.
Cobasys is a joint venture between Chevron Technology Ventures LLC, a
subsidiary of Chevron Corporation (NYSE: CVX) and Energy Conversion Devices,
Inc. (NASDAQ: ENER). For more information about Cobasys contact Ray Wagner,
Vice President of Marketing at 248-620-5765 or visit our website at
http://www.cobasys.com
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
