EV Digest 4551
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: E-Meter Questions
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) FS: 9 Evercel M100s, plus spare cells
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: New Lead-Acid Battery Helps Improve Electric Vehicle Range 23%Old
history dept Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: 3 Wheel tilting videos
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Solectria S-10, differential?
by Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Blowing fuse, add'l info.
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Battery de-sulfation
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Solar,wind charging project, oozing O.T.
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: New Lead-Acid Battery Helps Improve Electric Vehicle Range 23%Old
history dept Comments
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: E-Meter Questions
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: continuing troubles/help
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: blowing fuses: HV lines next to LV
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Freedom EV by Jerry Dycus
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: New Lead-Acid Battery Helps Improve Electric Vehicle Range 23%
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: More Battery Discussion
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Power requirement for "faster than an electric car" performance
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Real eff hybrids, Re: CalCars plug in hybrids
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: blowing fuses: LV lines next to controller case and PCB
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Solectria S-10, differential?
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Solectria S-10, differential?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Accessories
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Thoughts on Range
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Aug 2005 at 23:29, Nick Austin wrote:
> Perhaps Victor sells them?
http://metricmind.com/counter.htm
Prices run from $440 to $902, depending on options. A BCM220, with a shunt-
mounted circuit board, a separate display for mounting in the instrument
panel, and all the goodies except the analog meter drivers, is $574. I
think this is the one that Solectria used in their later Forces.
I'm not sure how that price compares to an E-meter's, but remember that the
Brusa counters don't need a prescaler or DC:DC converter (they operate at
any pack voltage between 15 and 500 volts). Also they are made in
Switzerland, not China or Taiwan.
I think they max out at 500 amps, since they're mainly meant for AC drive
vehicles, but if you need more you can just use a double-current shunt and
double the readings. Victor can give you more info on that.
I have the earlier version of this counter, the BC-29.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have 9 Evercel M100s which I was going to install into my car, but have
not, and probably would not in the near future. I also have 5 spare cells
in the event you develop a bad cell. I'd like to get $1800 for the lot,
but I am willing to entertain offers. The only catch is if you want it
shipped I'm going to have to solicit ideas from the list for shipping
them. These are just over 50 pounds per battery, 12v, 84ah.
Also, I have 10 Rudman MK2b regulators which if the buyer wishes to pick
them up, I will part with for $42.50 each. These are new, fully assembled
and never installed.
If you have questions, please let me know
Derrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:56 AM
Subject: New Lead-Acid Battery Helps Improve Electric Vehicle Range 23%
> Was this the Honda Civic with 25 Optimas. LR>...................
> June 21, 1996
> San Dimas, CA
>
> A 4-passenger AC Propulsion electric vehicle equipped with Optima
lead-acid
> batteries traveled 145 miles on one charge today setting a new mark for
EVs
> in a test witnessed by Southern California Edison.
Wow! Sounds like a new press release. S.Cal Edison seems to be into
EV's enough to witness this. Don't they, didn't they , have a fleet of
Rav-4's with 100k on their clocks?Maybe they will BUY them, since Toyota
stopped destroying the returns off lease
The 145 mile range is a
> new record for the SCE Pomona test course. The previous record was 120
miles
> held by the Ford Ecostar using sodium-sulphur batteries. The previous best
The Ecostar was a nice rig. Got to drine CT Lite an' Power's in CT
years ago, about mid 90's I guess. Had it over for a EAA Klub Cookout,
EVerybody tried it. That was back in the heady daze of Honda announcing the
'Honda with a cord" adsEV Plus? I think they called it. I pinned a Newspaper
ad up on the wall. Oh the days! We felt that you would be able to go to your
friendly EV showroom and order up an EV to OWN, have ,hold and love.Hopes
dashed later on!
> for lead-acid powered EVs had been 118 miles, also set by AC Propulsion
> using an earlier version of the Optima EV battery. The best performance by
> any other lead-acid powered EV over the Pomona Loop is 85 miles. The
> demonstrated 145 mile range also exceeds the ranges claimed by Honda and
> Toyota for their nickel-metal hydride battery powered EVs introduced in
> April at Eco Expo in Los Angeles, which were both less than 130 miles.
>
OK....... I'm thinking, a DC rig coulda come close? Did that course
have stop an' go stuff for the regen to shine on a AC setup.Would Victer's
stuff do almost ,or as, well?
?
> The 145 mile range was achieved with the same AC-150 electric drive system
> that powers the Ohio State and Oklahoma entries in the Cleveland Electric
> Formula Classic Race this weekend.
>
> AC Propulsion president Alan Cocconi, who drove the car for the test
> attributed the 23% range increase primarily to improvements Optima has
made
> to its EV battery. "We used our demo car that has 47,000 miles on it, and
> didn't change anything for this test," said Cocconi. "After we installed
the
> new batteries in April, we began to realize that they had significantly
more
> capacity than Optima's previous generation of EV battery. We are getting
> over 100 miles at 65-70 mph, and that's without any special attention to
> efficient driving technique. We wanted an independent test for
verification,
> and that's what we got today."
>
Again, Wow! I'm impressed. Optima has been improving the design. If
they had EV's in mind they may be able to do more. Or If John Wayland loaded
the Blue Meanie up with the newer Optimas he could enjoy real world 65-70
mile range, "without any special attention to efficient driving technique"
Like dusting a few Mustangs and that sorta iron.A little tire smoke in the
morning?
The secret , to me, is a good, damn good , Battery Managment System, or
the eight dollar word for a decent charger.
> The range test was conducted on Southern California Edison's Pomona Loop,
a
> route designed by SCE to represent typical driving on suburban streets.
Run
> at posted speed limits, this loop requires a faster, somewhat more
> aggressive driving pattern than the US Federal Urban Driving Schedule
which
> is used to determine fuel economy ratings for conventional cars. The AC
> Propulsion EV, with driver and passenger on board completed 7.5 laps of
the
> 19.4 mile route for 145 miles with an average enerrgy consumption of 126
> Wh/mile.
> Can anybody hit So Cal Ed up for a run on the Pomona loop? Could be the
EV standard for testing anybody's EV that wished to try?
> The Optima EV battery is similar to the starter battery that Optima
produces
> at its Colorado factory for aftermarket and racing applications. It uses
the
> same sealed, spiral-wound construction but requires specific formulations
> for the electrolyte and electrode materials. "Tailoring changes for the EV
> application is where Optima is really making progress," Cocconi observed.
> "The range and battery life just keep getting better, but the important
> factor for me, as an EV constructor, is that these batteries are presently
> available in initial production runs at a price I can afford, and have
> demonstrated 30,000 mile life in actual daily use.Decent but the nickel
medal hydrides do 100k , Right? Some advanced batteries
> promise even greater range, but with them, actual price and availability
are
> unknown.
>
Before Valence Sapian system, a bit
Maybe Optima has a NEWER battery since these words were written? More
watts per Lb?
> The AC-150 electric drivetrain is a 150 kilowatt (200 horsepower) electric
> motor and controller for vehicles in the 2500-4000 pound weight range. It
> embodies advanced motor control, battery charging, and driver interface
> circuitry and control logic to provide high performance, high efficiency,
> recharging, and battery management functions in an integrated package. The
> AC-150 is manufactured in California by AC Propulsion Inc.
>
>
> CONTACT: Tiffany Mitchell (909) 592-5399
>
Contacting Tiffany could get you a AC Propulsion drivetrain, at maybe a
bit less than the cost of , say,an Amtrak train<g>??
Off for Woodburn this AM
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who cares about performance, I'm sold on just the coolness factor :-)
From: "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: 3 Wheel tilting videos
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 17:10:35 -0400
If you would like to see what tilting 3 wheelers can do, I suggest that you
see the videos in the links below.
http://www.troisroues.com/troisroues.com.m1v
This one is of a radio controlled model, 1F1T.
Quite amazing!
http://www.troisroues.com/videosttw.html
BoyntonStu
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have not seen the inside of the differential. But the only negative I
can state about the E10 is that the rear end is noisy.
Don
Christopher Robison wrote:
I am intrigued by the differential shown in these photos. It looks like it
doesn't use a hypoid gear design, as the pinion appears to enter at the
same level as the axle. For those who have driven a Solectria S-10, is
this differential noisy? Kind of a long shot, but has anyone opened one to
see what the gears look like inside?
I wonder who made that part for them... I know that differentials looked
like this back in the day (Ford Model T and such), but is this design more
ordinary on modern cars than I'm aware?
--chris
Ryan Stotts said:
Nick Austin wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4566310584
I'd like to see a pic of the bed tilted up. Or does that bed not tilt up?
Heres some pics from some other truck to see what I'm talking about...
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1531/608e3jk.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2555/608f6em.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1203/608d1gw.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Contactor is SW200, but is running @ 144V.
Controller is DCP Raptor 600.
Schematic shows 12V line going through a 5A fuse, and
splitting to go to: main contactor, and pin 5 of the
controller.
Keep in mind this vehicle had over 2K miles without
blowing a fuse on the line in question.
When a 12V line goes past the magnetic blowouts of a
main contactor, can that make a difference?
Perhaps the diode of the main contactor is going?
Other?
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 12:38:55 -0400, "David Roden (Akron OH USA)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 2 Aug 2005 at 3:25, Danny Miller wrote:
>
>> I'm building a pulser and have several batteries with different stories in
>> mind. A common 17AH 12v SLA that has been worn out and only has like 20%
>> of its capacity left. A starting battery that was fairly new but then
>> left in a car that didn't run for years. A lawn tractor starting battery
>> that used to perform like crap and then taken out and left in the garage
>> for years.
>
>The problem with this scheme is that it provides no real comparative
>information, only more anecdotal data. There's plenty of that already.
>
>As Lee and I have already suggested, what we really need is :
Well Dave, since you seem to need more data than all that already out
there from those of us successfully using desulfators, might I suggest
that YOU set up and conduct the tests. After all, you're the one who
seems to be having an inordinate amount of problems spending the $30
it takes to get a kit to test - or just building your own. You don't
really think that someone else is going to do your research for you,
do you?
BTW, you ought not to toss out technical terms you don't really
understand. A "double blind placebo controlled trial" refers to tests
involving human subjects. The first "blind" is the investigator. The
second "blind" is the patient. This is to attempt to control the
placebo effect in test subjects. Since neither a battery nor a pulser
can "see", the second "blind" is meaningless. Nor is there a need for
a placebo, since the battery isn't a sentiment being and can't heal
itself just by thinking about it - the placebo effect.
What you propose isn't even a control referenced experiment, as you
propose two actions and no control. To be able to compare the results
of a pulser vs a smart charger, one would have to conduct two
experiments, each involving identically sulfated batteries, each
experiment also having a control battery to which the same reference
treatment was applied, probably conventional CV charging.
Before this experiment could be set up, one would have to develop a
method of identically sulfating many batteries - certainly an unknown
technique at the present.
A more rational approach for such a situation with so many
uncontrollable variables is to collect a body of, to use your term,
"anecdotal" evidence (the correct term when data is supplied is
empirical, I think) such that trends can be seen. That data is
available, though some of you seem to have a problem collecting it.
After all, it is this same type of large body of empirical evidence
that makes all of us "know" that a smart multi-stage charger makes
batteries last longer. After all, no large scale, control-referenced
experiment has ever been conducted on smart chargers. We accept that
they work because so many people have reported that they do. Just
like pulse desulfators.
BTW, there seems to be some confusion between pulse desulfators and
pulse chargers. Totally different animals. The pulse charger
delivers the charging current in pulses, usually with weak reverse
current pulses (depolarizing pulses) in between. I have little
experience with pulse chargers. I do know that segments that need
very rapid recharging of batteries such as RC modelers really like
pulse charging.
I use an RC charger to very rapidly recharge the NiCad batteries in my
professional photographic flashes but that's my only experience - not
enough to offer a firm opinion. This thing recharges a 4ah, 7.2 volt
pack in about 10 minutes. That it does so reliably, without damaging
the battery or shortening the life indicates to me that the unit
"works" but I haven't formally tested it against other types of
chargers. I just followed a fellow photographer's advice who also
used this charger.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI, this is a fairly typical response, somewhat O.T. But if you want to
know the average annual windspeed you *must* put up a 30' high averaging
recording anamometer and the windspeed must be above 10mph to justify the
expense of seriously generating more than you spent on the generation
equipment in a 10-year payback timeframe. Also the averaging anemometer
should show the average annual power density since that's a cubed function
as the wind increases, 13mph wind has *twice* the power of 10mph wind *See
Paul Gipe's book* on wind generation. Saying it feels windy here is
meaningless, my neighbors said that and when I put up a recording anamometer
I built it was 3mph in the winter and 1.2mph in the summer. I put a 6'
diameter wind generator on my roof for ornamental purposes, not for serious
power generation. My solar panels do that much better where I live. I've
been to >10mph average annual wind sites, Cal, CO, Boone,NC, W-VA and the
trees are flagged over as well as some of the people's hair :-) Mark
www.solectrol.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: Solar charging project
> Thanks for the links, I'll look them over. As to the comment on wind,
> you are both right and wrong. Yes, Charlotte is a class 1 wind area on
> the average but I'm not in Charlotte, I'm in Albemarle. I'm also on the
> highest point in something like a ten mile radius. And to top it all
> off, my property is at the "head" of a valley that runs the same
> direction as the prevailing winds. So, I almost never have a day with
> no wind, and average wind speeds of 7-10 mph are pretty common. Days of
> 70mph wind are far more common than I would like. So I know this is not
> an *ideal* area for wind power, but it is a very *good* area for low
> speed wind turbines.
>
>
> > This is a page for wind maps http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/.
> > This is the specific page for NC
> > http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps/chap3/3-30m.html if you look
at Charlotte you will see that it is a class 1 wind area and for a wind
application you want at least a class 3 area. You would be better off
putting the $$ into PV panels. If you are thinking that the AIR X is a good
low wind generator, it only starts to turn at 7 mph, and for it to produce
elec the wind has to be constant, not just gusts. And in the wind world
there is a big controversy about the specs of the AIR X output.
> >
> > Your solar panels need to have a PV charge controller that will charge a
battery bank. Then you can use the stored energy to charge the golf carts as
per your drawing. But you have to decide whether you want to use DC or AC.
To efficiently use PV panels to directly charge EV batteries, you need a PV
system on the order of 2kw or 2000 watts. And your drawing only shows 3
panels at 90 watts or 270 watts total.
>
> I don't see why I need a battery bank to store power just to charge the
> vehicles. That seems wasteful to me. 90% of the time (or more, can't
> be sure) 3 of the 4 units will be connected "charging" and only 1 maybe
> 2 will be out being used. So when they come back they will get the
> lion's share of the current.
>
> Yes I know that 270 watts is not a lot, and more would be better, that
> is my goal eventually, but right now that 270 watts per hour more than 7
> hours per day (solar day here year round is something like 7.24 hours)
> equates to well over a kilowatt a day. I only mow once a week and the
> golf cart usage is not that great so this seems like a good system, but
> for when it can't do it, that is the grid backup.
>
> James
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder what is the model number of this battery?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Rice
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: New Lead-Acid Battery Helps Improve Electric Vehicle Range
23%Old history dept Comments
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:56 AM
Subject: New Lead-Acid Battery Helps Improve Electric Vehicle Range 23%
> Was this the Honda Civic with 25 Optimas. LR>...................
> June 21, 1996
> San Dimas, CA
>
> A 4-passenger AC Propulsion electric vehicle equipped with Optima
lead-acid
> batteries traveled 145 miles on one charge today setting a new mark
for
EVs
> in a test witnessed by Southern California Edison.
Wow! Sounds like a new press release. S.Cal Edison seems to be into
EV's enough to witness this. Don't they, didn't they , have a fleet of
Rav-4's with 100k on their clocks?Maybe they will BUY them, since Toyota
stopped destroying the returns off lease
The 145 mile range is a
> new record for the SCE Pomona test course. The previous record was 120
miles
> held by the Ford Ecostar using sodium-sulphur batteries. The previous
best
The Ecostar was a nice rig. Got to drine CT Lite an' Power's in CT
years ago, about mid 90's I guess. Had it over for a EAA Klub Cookout,
EVerybody tried it. That was back in the heady daze of Honda announcing
the
'Honda with a cord" adsEV Plus? I think they called it. I pinned a
Newspaper
ad up on the wall. Oh the days! We felt that you would be able to go to
your
friendly EV showroom and order up an EV to OWN, have ,hold and
love.Hopes
dashed later on!
> for lead-acid powered EVs had been 118 miles, also set by AC
Propulsion
> using an earlier version of the Optima EV battery. The best
performance by
> any other lead-acid powered EV over the Pomona Loop is 85 miles. The
> demonstrated 145 mile range also exceeds the ranges claimed by Honda
and
> Toyota for their nickel-metal hydride battery powered EVs introduced
in
> April at Eco Expo in Los Angeles, which were both less than 130 miles.
>
OK....... I'm thinking, a DC rig coulda come close? Did that
course
have stop an' go stuff for the regen to shine on a AC setup.Would
Victer's
stuff do almost ,or as, well?
?
> The 145 mile range was achieved with the same AC-150 electric drive
system
> that powers the Ohio State and Oklahoma entries in the Cleveland
Electric
> Formula Classic Race this weekend.
>
> AC Propulsion president Alan Cocconi, who drove the car for the test
> attributed the 23% range increase primarily to improvements Optima has
made
> to its EV battery. "We used our demo car that has 47,000 miles on it,
and
> didn't change anything for this test," said Cocconi. "After we
installed
the
> new batteries in April, we began to realize that they had
significantly
more
> capacity than Optima's previous generation of EV battery. We are
getting
> over 100 miles at 65-70 mph, and that's without any special attention
to
> efficient driving technique. We wanted an independent test for
verification,
> and that's what we got today."
>
Again, Wow! I'm impressed. Optima has been improving the design. If
they had EV's in mind they may be able to do more. Or If John Wayland
loaded
the Blue Meanie up with the newer Optimas he could enjoy real world
65-70
mile range, "without any special attention to efficient driving
technique"
Like dusting a few Mustangs and that sorta iron.A little tire smoke in
the
morning?
The secret , to me, is a good, damn good , Battery Managment System,
or
the eight dollar word for a decent charger.
> The range test was conducted on Southern California Edison's Pomona
Loop,
a
> route designed by SCE to represent typical driving on suburban
streets.
Run
> at posted speed limits, this loop requires a faster, somewhat more
> aggressive driving pattern than the US Federal Urban Driving Schedule
which
> is used to determine fuel economy ratings for conventional cars. The
AC
> Propulsion EV, with driver and passenger on board completed 7.5 laps
of
the
> 19.4 mile route for 145 miles with an average enerrgy consumption of
126
> Wh/mile.
> Can anybody hit So Cal Ed up for a run on the Pomona loop? Could be
the
EV standard for testing anybody's EV that wished to try?
> The Optima EV battery is similar to the starter battery that Optima
produces
> at its Colorado factory for aftermarket and racing applications. It
uses
the
> same sealed, spiral-wound construction but requires specific
formulations
> for the electrolyte and electrode materials. "Tailoring changes for
the EV
> application is where Optima is really making progress," Cocconi
observed.
> "The range and battery life just keep getting better, but the
important
> factor for me, as an EV constructor, is that these batteries are
presently
> available in initial production runs at a price I can afford, and have
> demonstrated 30,000 mile life in actual daily use.Decent but the
nickel
medal hydrides do 100k , Right? Some advanced batteries
> promise even greater range, but with them, actual price and
availability
are
> unknown.
>
Before Valence Sapian system, a bit
Maybe Optima has a NEWER battery since these words were written?
More
watts per Lb?
> The AC-150 electric drivetrain is a 150 kilowatt (200 horsepower)
electric
> motor and controller for vehicles in the 2500-4000 pound weight range.
It
> embodies advanced motor control, battery charging, and driver
interface
> circuitry and control logic to provide high performance, high
efficiency,
> recharging, and battery management functions in an integrated package.
The
> AC-150 is manufactured in California by AC Propulsion Inc.
>
>
> CONTACT: Tiffany Mitchell (909) 592-5399
>
Contacting Tiffany could get you a AC Propulsion drivetrain, at
maybe a
bit less than the cost of , say,an Amtrak train<g>??
Off for Woodburn this AM
Seeya
Bob
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
distribution or use of this information by a person other than the intended
recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:01:53 -0500, Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>Well, I _finally_ got an E-meter :-) Two quick questions:
>
>1) Does the E-meter's shunt have to be inserted in the wiring to the
>negative side of the battery pack or can I insert it on the positive
>side of the battery pack?
It must be in the negative lead.
>
>2) As a very temporary solution, would it be okay to power the E-meter
>by tapping off 24 volts from a section of the traction battery pack? I
>know this could cause EQ problems in the series string, but my main
>concern is whether doing this will hurt the E-meter or not?
You can do this but be very careful. The manual lies. Much more than
30 volts on the power lead will let the blue smoke leak out. BTDT.
The meter draws such a tiny bit of power that it won't unbalance the
string if your charger is working right. You need to make sure your
charger (or regen if you have it) can't EVER exceed 30 volts across
those batteries.
I have an emeter on my 36 volt GoBig scooter spanned across 24 volts.
It has been in place for 2+ years and still the batteries show
practically identical terminal voltages even though they're only 36
ah.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe and all,
John is at work and asked me to reply so that maybe we can get this worked out
by the time he gets home.
Specs on truck:
85 Dodge Ram, converted in 1995, no idea about the miles on the conversion,
probably couple k at most, but John was told that it sat unused in a garage for
a couple years, 9" ADC motor, no clutch, new T-125's (124 vdc), Auburn C600
controller, Albright 200B contactor, PB-5 (microswitch) pot box. Converted as
college project, John bought it about 2 months ago and the problem showed up
right away after we put in the new bat pack.
It has a battery heating system that we disconnected when we put in the new
bats, but have not yet removed the wires, no need for it here in AZ ;-)
What happens: When accelerator is pushed, or the pot box lever is moved, the
motor will sometimes not turn. The pot box lever can be sometimes 1/3 to 1/2 of
its travel and the motor will start to turn. Sometimes it is fine as soon as
the lever moves, sometimes it will take 2 or 3 or 4 'pushes' of the pedal to
engage the motor. It happens about 50% of the time.
Contactor stays closed all the time when key is turned on, so the coils work.
All battery pack connections are all new and tight.
Pot box - microswitch clicks when pot lever comes back to neutral, continuity
when lever is pulled. Pot goes from 0k ohms to 5k ohms. We tried an extra one
we had and problem still happens, so put back in orig one.
Controller was sent to Dave Luiz in Sebastopol, CA. He declared it fine, no
problem, put it in his car and it worked fine. We checked continuity of the
wires leading to the controller sensor plug.
There is a reverse overspeed circuit, we disconnected that.
We pulled the motor and the commutator looked burned so we thought it was
arcing, took it to Luna Rebuilders here in Tucson. They took it apart,
turned/polished the commutator, and bench tested it. When we reinstalled it, it
sounded much better.
The problem still persists. What else could it be?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: continuing troubles/help
> Do you have a potbox microswitch?
> Did you check it too?
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:31 PM
> Subject: continuing troubles/help
>
>
>> Well I'm still having troubles with my 85 dodge ram. The accllerator will
> not always catch when I press down on it. I have to press it down 2 to 4
> times before it ingages.
>> We have:
>> checked the potbox +OK
>> had the controller checked out+ works great
>> motor cleaned and bench checked+Great motor
>> checked all connections+ all tight and going to the right places.
>> The only other thing I think I could do is re wire the set up and bypass
> anything that doesn't really need to be there and see if the problem still
> happens.
>> Any and all thoughts greatly appreciated.
>> John in Tucson
>>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bob,
You did not say what controller you have, but you say Pin# 5 and main contactor
is split. If you are running a Zilla. There should be a 4 amp fuse to Pin #2
from the ignition switch 12 VDC. Another 4 amp fuse to Pin #3 from the start
switch of the ignition switch. This is where the split is.
Out of Pin#5 is the 12 volt control circuit to the main contactor coil. If the
coil ampere is too high when the contactor is first started up, then one of the
fuses to pin #2 or pin #3 will blow.
This is what happen to me. I found that the 12 VDC main contactor coil draws a
running amperes of 4 amps, but the surge ampere is above 5 amps.
Installing a Zenar Overvoltage Transient Suppressor which is Bidirectional by
NTE across the coil reduces this surge. But if you are using standard fuses,
not a fusetron or limitron fuses, the standard fuse will go for a while.
To solved this problem, I came off the ignition switch power, which is circuit
breaker for 20 amps and go to a 10 amp limitron Bussman fuse to a 12 Volt DC
Square D plug in glass relay with 250 volt contacts that goes directly to the
main contactor.
Pin #5 now has only a load of 0.01 amps which turns on the 12 volt relay, which
now turns on the main contactor.
You could put in a 5 amp fustrons and a Transient suppressor to see what
happens.
Roland
Out
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Bath<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 6:00 PM
Subject: blowing fuses: HV lines next to LV
Guys, I've got an issue. 2000 incident-free miles,
now this:
Since the tranny swap, I've been blowing the same
fuse, every time.
It's a 12V split; one goes to pin 5 of the controller,
the other to the main contactor. If the voltages
aren't comparable, the controller won't go on. It's a
5A fuse.
All I can figure is that I pulled the controller
mounting plate off to access the tranny. When I put
the controller back, it is possible that I re-routed
the lines to the controller & main contactor. Sooo,
Is it possible that in running the 12V lines closer to
the HV line that I'm inducing some sort of EM pulse
which blows the fuse?
It's a basic fix each time; just stick in a new fuse.
But it's not getting to the root cause.
Most appreciatively,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Shay wrote:
> The Freedom EV has be mentioned a number of times on this
> discussion list, but is there somewhere on the Internet to get details
> about the car including pictures and information about building
> progress?
This is the only site I know of for it so far:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVProduction/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess the question is: What battery today is most like or better than
what was used by Cocconi? Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis wrote:
> Has anyone put Odyssey Batteries in their vehicle?
> Any comments?
I'm going to guess no due to the price of those batteries being higher
then AGM's:
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=508&prmenbr=361
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
13 batteries in a Cabriolet is different from 13 in a small car. I'm trying
to find better bigger batteries for just such a setup. It isn't easy. At
this point I'm thinking that getting the 240v version of the Zilla and more
batteries is a better option for durabiliy and performance but not for the
pocket book. If your longest trip is 12 miles you need a 25 mile range. 20
Exides is lookin good. This will insure long battery life and extremely
zippy performance. Lawrence Rhodes........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick 'Sharkey' Moore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hey, that thing is great. Any idea if it can be made to work for
> motorcycles?
Should work just as well for motorcycles as for cars.
> I tried plugging in Cd=0.6, F.A.=6sqft, and told it I had
> 130/80-17 tyres (halving the coefficient because there's only
> two of them)
I don't think you should halve the coefficient of rolling resistance,
but at the same time I'm not sure how the rolling resistance of m/c
tires compares to that of car tires. You might be best off to check the
Java/JavaScript source files that actually do the calculations to see if
halving the rolling resistance is appropriate. I suspect not since the
calculation probably just computes the rolling drag force (level ground)
as total vehicle weight * coefficient of rolling resistance, so the
number of wheels doesn't factor into it.
> Anyone know what the various motor factors (a,b,c,d,k,n) are
> for an Etek motor?
Get yourself a graph of the Etek performance and use the motor page of
Uve's calculator to compute the motor factors.
Beware that Uve's calculator does not accurately model *any* motor, it
simply tries to fit a curve to the provided motor curve(s). As a
result, it typically does reasonably well at modelling the motor near
the motor voltage for which the curve was fitted, and for moderate
values of current/torque, but can err considerably at operating points
where the current/torque is either very high or very low. This
limitation will not affect the accuracy of the drag calculations, but
will affect the prediction of range at a given speed.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob, no, to blow a 5A fuse look at direct electrical
contact (parasitic, like rubbed isolation causing intermittent
short). If LV section is isolated for sure, there is no enough
power in HV section to blow a 5A fuse in LV wiring, near
PM or not. Now, make sure PM isn't moving (rotating),
else you make a generator and CAN blow a fuse if you
overload an output of it (output in this case being
LV wiring seen as a stator winding of it).
If you insert a small resistor (0.1 Ohm) in series with
the fuse, observing the waveform on it it will give
you a clue what is the source of the current. If it is
HF pulses with the freq of the controller PWM, or DC-DC's
PWM for example. 5A*0.1 Ohm is 0.5V - enough amplitude
to be seen by any scope. Borrow hand held Fluke one.
Victor
Bob Bath wrote:
What if it was that the LV lines were routed too close
to the fan's permanent magnet, or the PCB of the
controller case? Something just isn't making sense
here...
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Bob Bath wrote:
Is it possible that in running the 12V lines
closer to
the HV line that I'm inducing some sort of EM
pulse
which blows the fuse?
No, in short, it is not possible in your EV. The
root cause
is different. It will take mega-amps and perhaps a
mile of
wire to induce the current in adjacent isolated
conductor
to blow a 5A fuse (unless they are being turns of a
transformer,
which they aren't in your case).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's the first time i've seen a rear end like that
since we pulled the one from my friends model T to
stick in the ford nine inch. Looks like a straight
bevel gear setup. There is less fiction in a staight
bevel gear as opposed to a hypoid gear, perhaps that
is why they chose that setup.
Gadget
--- Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have not seen the inside of the differential. But
> the only negative I
> can state about the E10 is that the rear end is
> noisy.
> Don
>
>
> Christopher Robison wrote:
>
> >I am intrigued by the differential shown in these
> photos. It looks like it
> >doesn't use a hypoid gear design, as the pinion
> appears to enter at the
> >same level as the axle. For those who have driven
> a Solectria S-10, is
> >this differential noisy? Kind of a long shot, but
> has anyone opened one to
> >see what the gears look like inside?
> >
> >I wonder who made that part for them... I know that
> differentials looked
> >like this back in the day (Ford Model T and such),
> but is this design more
> >ordinary on modern cars than I'm aware?
> >
> > --chris
> >
> >
> >
> >Ryan Stotts said:
> >
> >
> >> Nick Austin wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4566310584
> >>>
> >>>
> >>I'd like to see a pic of the bed tilted up. Or
> does that bed not tilt up?
> >>
> >>Heres some pics from some other truck to see what
> I'm talking about...
> >>
>
>>http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1531/608e3jk.jpg
>
>>http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2555/608f6em.jpg
>
>>http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1203/608d1gw.jpg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Robison wrote:
> I wonder who made that part for them...
I think someone on this list worked for Solectria at the time.
> is this design more ordinary on modern cars than I'm aware?
No. Considering most cars anymore are front wheel drive. Trucks,
SUV's, etc all use the standard differentials which we're used to
seeing.
I have to wonder though what the limitations of the type used in the
Solectria are though. I bet it wouldn't be to hard to cause it to
fail catastrophically...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have a 200v+ battery, how do you get 12v power to run the horn,
headlights, radio, etc? Do people put in a separate 12v battery or use
some sort of buck converter or inverter to get the voltage down?
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Why do you need to keep Optimas at all?
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
I'm going to try running my Sparrow on BB600 NiCd cells. 137 of them to
be exact.
So the pack will be:
NiCd Optima YT
164V 156V (nominal)
452 lbs 558 lbs
~40AH ~45AH (? at 65A)
The NiCd's are a lot stiffer than the YT's. Their voltage stays up
pretty well until the very end. They also don't suffer from Cold
weather nearly as much.
I think I'll get more useable range, since you REALLY don't want to take
the YT's down to 80 or 90% DOD, and the NiCd's don't really care. (Just
don't reverse them.)
(Note that this is a non-trivial conversion, as I'll have to modify the
under-seat battery box.)
Any comments or ideas?
--- End Message ---
