--- Begin Message ---
I've been researching donor cars for a couple of months now, and I wanted to
put this question to the list. Cars built post '94 require a driver's side
airbag, and post '95 cars require dual airbags. If I want the safety features
of a modern late-model vehicle, should I limit my selection to 1994-5 or newer?
There is another option, however. My goal is to make a performance-oriented
EV. I was planning on adding racing seats for both weight reduction and safety
(5 or 6 point harness). It would also be possible to put in additional
structural members (roll cage). Would this potentially be equal or better
safety than the airbag systems (and possibly better crumple zones) of the newer
car model? After all, no race car uses airbags. They use helmets, harness
seats and roll cages (albeit 12 or 16 point) and drivers walk away from 200 mph
crashes.
Thoughts?
--Patrick
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C5A507.A580CCF0"
Subject: Safety of donor car
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From: "Patrick Plummer--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 100 mile range,
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 14:48:03 -0700
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It's Florida isn't it. When you say 10 miles lower in altitude you are
joking. I didn't think much of Florida was more than 200 feet above sea
level. LR.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 6:19 AM
Subject: 100 mile range,
> awhile back I changed out the 25 golf cart bats in my work truck , I
> planed to put the old truck batteries in the Toyota torcell project which
> I have in Okeechobee 30 miles away . I figured this would be a good time
> to do a 100 mile run and get in the www.grassrootsev.com 100 mile on a
> charge club. I loaded up the truck with the , still good batteries and
> wired the two packs in parallel. The plan was to drive to Okeechobee then
> back to Fort Pierce where I live then back again , and do a extra 10 miles
> to make the 100, . I had no problem about having enough juice , and with
> the batteries pushed as far forward in the bed the truck drove fine at 40
> to 50 mph / drove mostly at about 40 pulling 80 amps and ended using about
> 180 ah and a voltage over 11v with load. Jon an old friend of mine , and
> the web master nailed me with one small detail , Okeechobee is 10 miles
> lower than Fort Pierce and as I drove there twice but back only once I was
> going down hill more than up :-( . I would have been ok if I had gone 50
> miles one way and then back or 25 miles 4 times .
>
> Steve Clunn
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:32:53 -0400
From: Chip Sandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject:
To: [email protected]
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Hey all,
Forgive me if this seems like an insane post, but it's 5:30 in the morning and
I have a crazy idea that I need to get out. I've been thinkink the last couple
of days, NJ isn't exactly a hotbed for EV activity. As mentioned in one of the
responses to my last post though, it is a good place to own one. Gas prices are
rapidly approaching $3.00/gal., the terrain here is relatively flat, and the
congestion of traffic makes it unnecessary to have rediculously high
performance.
I would like nothing more than to build (or preferably buy) an EV, my problem
is that I only make $9.45 an hour and have ZERO funds to pull off such a
project. Even if I had the money, I live in an apartment, and lack the
facilities, so a conversion would have to be done at a shop. I am currently
looking to change jobs to one that would hopefully put me into the 30-40k/year
range, which will help. I was wondering though, if there are any companies or
organizations out there who offer sponsorship to people who want to do this. My
idea is to have a car with a classic sort of look. My 2 first choices are the
Opel GT and (preferably) the Bradley GT. Do it up kind of like a modern tuner
car and take it to all sorts of shows, like classic car shows, and import tuner
type events with the companies' logos all over the car. I know there are
companies in the import aftermarket who do this on a regular basis to promote
thier products so I thought it might be worth looking into.
I really believe that this whole EV movement is a great cause and I'd love to
be a part of it by being a catalyst for change and promoting interest here in
NJ. I've already gotten a couple of my co-workers and friends thinking just by
talking to them about it. Like I said, forgive me if this is a crazy idea, but
I had to put it out there. Thanks for listening
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:58:58 +0300
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
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I would say 2C is already VERY useful.(will write another thread what
I'm talking in here)
Among chemistries and individual cells there sure are HUGE differences.
I have sorted cells from normal production line which have less than 1
mohm internal resistance. These cells are 150 ah Li-Mn cells. sagging
was very low and battery got even better after few discherges (temp
about 40 celsius). Very useful already in 5C rates.
I have sorted out also cells with enormous Rint. like 130 mohm. Useful
only in very low 1/10C rates.
Many hope to have Lithium cells in sizes starting 100 Ah and up with
0,001% tolerance. quess what... It will never happen. Even if cells
would be very similar they would be scattered around the car and
air/liquid flows would not allow cohorent enough cooling/heating. again
differences in their properties... Even BMS will not flatten out cells
to this tolerance. But do we need that ? nope.
-Jukka
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
> Thanks Claudio,
>
> Would someone mind pointing out some good references that would help me
> understand such arcane subjects as "useful discharge rate"
>
> Thanks,
>
> Noel
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Claudio Natoli
>>Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:55 PM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: RE: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
>>
>>
>>Peter writes:
>>
>>>>200ah cells should be minimum size for any ev or you will
>>
>>run into
>>
>>>>problems with available power not capacity.
>>
>>Noel writes:
>>
>>>How did GM get good acceleration and range with their Ovonic 13.2v
>>>85Ah NiMH batteries?
>>
>>Different chemistry.
>>
>>Peter and Victor were discussing 200Ah cells as a minimum in
>>the context of *Lithium Ion* batteries, which have a lower
>>useful discharge rate (relative to cell size) than the other
>>common battery chemistries.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Claudio
>>
>>
>
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
> immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
> distribution or use of this information by a person other than the intended
> recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
>
>
--
Jukka Järvinen
R&D Director
Oy Finnish Electric Vehicle Technologies Ltd
Sepänkatu 3
11710 RIIHIMÄKI
FINLAND
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Puh./Fax. +358 19 735 705
GSM +358 440 735 705
www.fevt.com
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 14:58:06 -0700
From: Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EVList <[email protected]>
Subject: 3-Phase power at home?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Has anybody been successful in getting 3 phase power at home?
Or a 3 phase generator?
I just bought a TEVan, and noted that the included charger can charge at 25Kw,
off 208V 3-Phase power. Wow!
Perhaps this is unattainable for me :)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:43:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Safety of donor car
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Begging your pardon, but beginning '92, Civics have
airbags. (No jokes about two when my wife is in the
car). That's one of the reasons I selected 92 or
newer. In 96, however, they added 200 lbs. of
additional metal, etc. so that would translate into
reduced range.
Clearly, if you want racing, you're talking AGM
batteries (Hawker, ETC., not USB/Trojan). So you're
talking about twice the cost for batteries, charge
regulators, etc. Because flooded batteries cannot
sustain current pulls that you'll see in racing.
I'll stick to quick, street-car performance, but to
each their own.
peace,
--- Patrick Plummer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've been researching donor cars for a couple of
> months now, and I wanted to put this question to the
> list. Cars built post '94 require a driver's side
> airbag, and post '95 cars require dual airbags. If
> I want the safety features of a modern late-model
> vehicle, should I limit my selection to 1994-5 or
> newer?
>
> There is another option, however. My goal is to
> make a performance-oriented EV. I was planning on
> adding racing seats for both weight reduction and
> safety (5 or 6 point harness). It would also be
> possible to put in additional structural members
> (roll cage). Would this potentially be equal or
> better safety than the airbag systems (and possibly
> better crumple zones) of the newer car model? After
> all, no race car uses airbags. They use helmets,
> harness seats and roll cages (albeit 12 or 16 point)
> and drivers walk away from 200 mph crashes.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> --Patrick
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*
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> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5A507.A580CCF0"
> Subject: Safety of donor car
> Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
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> Thread-Topic: Safety of donor car
> Thread-Index: AcWlA3NaHxaQg5ctQS2S+H/DMVEDhQAAgTw9
> From: "Patrick Plummer--
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:47:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: When batt. posts turn black...
To: [email protected]
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Alright, here's the thing I don't understand....
18 USB8VGC batteries (ie, floodies).
About 4 of the lugs are now more of a black, than a
grey. Why? What does this mean?
3K miles on the pack; 350A max. current pulls.
Thanks,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:51:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pascal Ruyter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: What motor?
To: [email protected]
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Hi Chris,
Well, to be honest I also don't like the idea of building an EV with limited
capabilities, but at the moment, since I don't know very much about EV's, it is
all I have. I get to know a thing or 2 since I joined this list, so I am
learning :)
Regarding the car, there is indeed a lot of stuff that needs to be changed, not
to mention that it will probably be build as a 4-seater, so there will be a lot
of strenghtening to do on the chassis.
During the day I have been thinking about what I really want so here is a short
list:
Prefably:
Get me to my workplace and back without recharging (14 km or about 9 miles one
way trip)
Get along with the other vehicles (max. speed on the road to my workplace and
back is 80 km/h or about 50 miles per hour)
If possible a few recharges per week (best would be 1 recharge every week, so I
can brag about how cheap it is to drive :))
If possible:
Getting as far as possible (my parents live appr. 250 km from my place, about
155 or 156 miles, so would be nice if I could visit them in my new electric car
instead of my stationwagon)
If that can be done, there is the problem of speed, some roads are 80 km/h (50
miles/h), others are 100 km/h (63 miles/h) and a few have the maximum
speedlimit here in the netherlands 120 km/h (75 miles/h).
So it isn't much that I want :) (atleast I hope)
Regarding the controller, I currently don't have a clue what the function is of
a controller (forgive my ignorance) so please enlighten me.
And finally regarding the fiberglass body, a friend of mine, who works as a
boatbuilder (made of polyester (those small fishingboats) has already offered
his assistance when I am ready to 'glass' the body. So I don't see a real
problem there.
thx for the info, and from the moment I'll start I'll keep you and the rest of
this list informed of it''s progress (Currently I am absorbing as much info as
I can)
Chris Tromley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Pascal,
It's encouraging to see that R.Q Riley states up front that the Urbacar
design is obsolete and really should be improved in several ways. It's also
encouraging to see that's not hard to do.
I personally don't like the idea of building an EV with very limited use.
So far what you describe will have very modest performance and should never
be taken on a highway where speeds are above 80-90 kph. A 48 V version of
this car will probably reach that speed, but it will take a very long time.
Even if you decide to live with that limited performance, finding the
components to build the car might be difficult. The fact that the original
transmission is obsolete probably means you must use direct drive, since
finding and adapting another transmission could be a project in itself.
That means very high current draws from your flooded batteries will be
needed, which will shorten their life. The only practical way to get that
high current is to use a contactor controller, which will make speed control
rather jerky.
Here's what I would do. (see http://www.rqriley.com/imagespln/ue4.jpg)
Since the transmission won't be there, you can mount the motor where the
transmission was. (That gives you more room for batteries.) I would two
ADC A00 motors
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=533&product_id=1102
or something equivalent from D&D or other sources. A Zilla Z1k controller
is a bit more expensive than a Curtis, but has twice the power and has *far*
more features. One of those features is the ability to switch two motors
from series to parallel. This allows you to use direct drive *and* get far
better flexibility from your motors.
Finally, I would add four more batteries behind the rear axle and four more
in front of the front wheels. Some will point out, and correctly, that this
battery placement will increase the polar moment of inertia of the car to
the detriment of handling. But the car is so small that it will still
handle just fine. The 96 V pack will allow you to travel at highway speeds
easily depending on what gearing you use. Range and pack life will be
phenomenal. 150 km per charge should be possible. (Note that the Zilla's
lower limit is 72 V, so at least four additional batteries will be needed
for this plan to work.
It should not be difficult to strengthen the chassis sufficiently to hold
the extra weight. However it is obvious that little effort was devoted to
crash protection in the original design. If it was me I would improve on
that. Again, it shouldn't be too difficult.
Also understand that the fiberglass-over-foam technique is quick and easy
only if you will be satisfied with terrible surface quality. Getting the
surface as smooth and straight as a production vehicle will take a *huge*
amount of time. My advice is to pay close attention to evenness of the
shape before applying the fiberglass, spend little time with filler to get
the surface reasonably smooth, then apply a textured paint that will mask
the inevitable myriad surface imperfections. Marc Kohler built an EV using
this technique, he might be a source of info.
http://home.austin.rr.com/ev3po/
Good luck with your project, and please keep us posted on progress.
Chris
---------------------------------
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Warp 9 / S10 / Zilla Controller
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:03:26 -0500
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My choices also..
After doing research I decided on the Warp 9 Impulse and a Zilla 1K for my
conversion. It turns out the Curtis controllers are "whiney" iif run at low
rpm, and my car will require a continuous 300 rpm rotation for the automatic
transmission, PS, etc. They are also behind the curve on current
capability, can't be programmed like the zilla with a palm or notebook for
the wide variety of different parameters Zillas accomodate and they have a
cooling system to get rid of the heat, rather than relying on a heatsink
only. I certainly don't wish to have a wimpy or sluggish car when I am
done with the process.
That said, I am willing to spend the extra bucks to have 156 volts, the
extra features, etc.
I also highly recommend Ryan at www.evsource.com who will help you with the
Netgain motor or the Zilla. He is very helpful and I just ordered my motor
from him.
Best of luck with your S-10
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
1995 Saab 900
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cwarman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 4:16 PM
Subject: Warp 9 / S10 / Zilla Controller
> Hey Guys, ok im back....i made my first purchase and your right i wanted
> to what was right for me. I bought the 1997 Chevy S-10. I live in
> northern maine and we have big winters here so wanted a truck if i could.
> Its 2 wheel drive and a small area to heat. I can use the bed for batterys
> etc and wotn have to worry about fumes, while charging etc. Even those
> people are continually talking about weight is ee that there are alot of
> S-10 conversions around. I cant wait to get started tearing out the
> ICE...
>
> I think im gonna go with a WARP 9 DC motor.
> I heard people say the Zilla 1k is well worth the money over a curtis
> controller. Any thoughts? As the price is substantially more expensive
> (approx $500 more).
>
> Any input would be helpfull...
>
> Thanks
> Cwarman
>
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From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ADC vs. Netgain / how about Prestolite?
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:04:39 -0700
To: [email protected]
On Aug 19, 2005, at 9:43 AM, Brad E Jensen wrote:
> I bought two Prestolite motors at an auction, but know nothing about
> them. The one has no data sticker because it was worn off the other
> one has really limited information. If I sent you pictures, do you
> think you could identify them and tell me whether they might be
> adequate to drive and EV? I also have another huge DC electric motor
> that may or may not be a Prestolite - no markings on it whatsoever. I
> believe they all came out of forklifts...
>
Sure. Other information that would be helpful is the motor length,
diameter, and shaft length and diameter.
On the standard MTC series 96 volt motors (may also be marked 72v or
84v) the shaft is 1.125 inch diameter by about 1.3 inches long. The
motor is 7 inches in diameter and about 16.25 inches long excluding the
shaft. Most of the 96 volt motors have some interesting fins on the
brush end bell. Very few have dual shafts.
Paul "neon" G.
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From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ADC vs. Netgain / how about Prestolite?
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:17:15 -0700
To: [email protected]
On Aug 19, 2005, at 9:39 AM, Cwarman wrote:
> If all three motors are basically as good as each other , would it be
> prudent to shop for the best price between them ? Im about to
> purchase my first glider and trying to find out which engine is gonna
> be my best bang for the buck..
>
The Prestolites and not available new anymore. The type generally used
in an on-road EV is a single shaft 7 inch motor that was similar in
power handling to an ADC 8 inch motor. They have larger brushes than an
8 inch ADC and may be slightly less efficient (peak is 85% at 100
volts.) I purchased both of mine used.
ADC and WarP give you several options for motor size. If your vehicle
is to large to use an ADC 8" motor the Prestolite would be a poor
choice.
Paul "neon" G.
From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 3-Phase power at home?
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:20:42 -0400
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Yes.
That has nothing to do with what you may encounter, however. Each
utility has its own rules. Three phase residential power is becoming
more common in areas where McMansions happen because the high loads
that these monstrosities represent are better served with 3 phase.
The first hurdle you have to clear is whether 3 phase is available at
your transformer. It's very unlikely that a utility would run
multi-phase primary wiring even a block or two.
If three phase is at the transformer then maybe you can get it if
policy allows. If your service is underground, expect to pay for a
larger run of underground conduit. Also expect to pay for a 3 phase
meter box and disconnect.
There are two major types of service, 120/208 and 120/240. 120/208
service involves 2 or 3 transformers with their secondaries connected
in a star or wye configuration. The center tap is the grounded
neutral. This produces 120 volts any phase to ground, 208 any phase
to any other phase.
This is a very common industrial connection that makes good use of
transformer resources but isn't good for the home or shop because most
appliances need 240. Since power varies as the square of the voltage,
240 volt equipment operated on 208 generally underperforms.
The other configuration, what we want, is called the "split delta" or
'center tapped delta" or "wild leg delta. In this configuration, the
transformer secondaries are connected in the delta configuration,
except that one phase is center-tapped just like for residential
service. The center-tap is the grounded neutral, again just like
residential service.
With this configuration, the phase to phase voltage is 240 plus there
is conventional 120/240 from the center tapped phase. The "other" tap
has a non-standard voltage to ground, usually around 180. This is the
so-called wild leg. Conventional single phase loads go on the 120/240
feed while 3 phase 240 volt loads go between the phases. It is usual
to have a conventional 120/240 volt breaker panel and a separate 3
phase breaker panel.
This is the best of both worlds for you the consumer but the power
companies don't like it. It makes poor use of transformer resources.
Plus, unless the wild leg is clearly identified and kept separate from
single phase loads, one can accidentally connect a 120 volt branch to
the wild leg which supplies much too high a voltage.
A variation of this is the "open center tapped delta" that eliminates
one transformer. This is common when the majority of the load is
single phase and maybe one or two 3 phase load. The center tapped
transformer is usually much larger than the "wild leg" one.
I have the closed center tapped delta service to my building. Most of
the loads are single phase but the walk-in freezer and some high power
heating appliances are 3 phase. My shop is fed by a separate
conventional 120/240 volt single phase drop. I put a 100 amp single
phase breaker on the wild leg of my 3 phase panel and then ran a
single wire "wild leg" to my shop to get three phase there.
I laid all the above out for a couple of reasons. One, when the
utility guy starts trying to baffle you with BS, you'll know better.
Two, many times they'll claim that 120/208 is the only thing available
just because they don't want to hang the extra transformer capacity.
If you know what a "center tapped delta" is, you're much ahead of the
game.
Even if your charger is nominally 208, it will probably run better on
240. If it has a transformer, either it won't matter or there will be
an internal 240 volt tap. If solid state, it should adjust
automatically. In either event, it will draw fewer amps from the line
on 240. Induction motors are a LOT happier on 240.
Once you get 3 phase to your house, you might want to consider
converting the big loads like AC to 3 phase. Three phase motors are
significantly more efficient than single phase ones. Plus there are
no start or run capacitors nor start relays to fail. For a given
load, the current is dropped by 1/sqrt(3) when converting to 3 phase
so the line losses are less. Finally, if your panel is near full
load, you can run more loads with 3 phase because of that sqrt(3)
relationship.
John
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 14:58:06 -0700, Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Has anybody been successful in getting 3 phase power at home?
>
>Or a 3 phase generator?
>
>I just bought a TEVan, and noted that the included charger can charge at 25Kw,
>off 208V 3-Phase power. Wow!
>
>Perhaps this is unattainable for me :)
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 09:20:44 +1000
To: [email protected]
From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Warp 9 / S10 / Zilla Controller
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At 05:16 PM 19/08/05 -0400, Cwarman wrote:
>Hey Guys, ok im back....i made my first purchase and your right i wanted
>to what was right for me. I bought the 1997 Chevy S-10.
Well done.
> I live in northern maine and we have big winters here so wanted a truck
> if i could. Its 2 wheel drive and a small area to heat.
Don't forget about being able to insulate a lot of the cabin - I am using
campers' sleeping mats - only about 1/2" thick, reduces the heat requirements.
>I can use the bed for batterys etc and won't have to worry about fumes,
>while charging etc.
Better to try and keep the bed if possible - how about removing the bed and
putting a flat tray on it (common here in Australia, but may not even be
legal where you are).
>I think i'm gonna go with a WARP 9 DC motor.
Has a reputation to be a strong motor, should do well.
>I heard people say the Zilla 1k is well worth the money over a curtis
>controller. Any thoughts? As the price is substantially more expensive
>(approx $500 more).
No, much cheaper over time. A Cursit .. er Curtis would likely not be
reliable on a 9" motor (over the years many listers have reported problems
with Curtis controllers in their on-road vehicles). Don't forget, you are
comparing a controller where '450amp' actualy is for something like 10
seconds, continuous current is something like 275A. The watercooled Zilla
is 1000A and can keep it up as long ad you can keep it cool.
Just my 0.02
James
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From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Kilovac Czonka II Relay Question
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:20:40 -0700
To: [email protected]
On Aug 19, 2005, at 10:57 AM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> For some reason I don't see such devices in the USA.
> May be I don't hbow how to ask for them. Do you know
> by chance the technical term for this relay type?
>
Latching relay. Some also flip state by each time the coil is powered
without a second coil or reversing coil polarity. The most common small
one is found in 1966 and newer aircooled Beetles, to select the low or
high beam headlights.
Paul
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 09:25:14 +1000
To: [email protected]
From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: When batt. posts turn black...
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At 03:47 PM 19/08/05 -0700, you wrote:
>Alright, here's the thing I don't understand....
>
>18 USB8VGC batteries (ie, floodies).
>About 4 of the lugs are now more of a black, than a
>grey. Why? What does this mean?
Sounds like you are getting acid mist. Have a very close look at the tops
of the batteries and see if the blackened ones are wet and the rest are dry.
I don't think that it would be heat - I believe you would have lost a
terminal before you notice the colour change (not even sure that heat will
blacken them).
James
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:21:41 -0400
From: "Cory R. Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 3-Phase power at home?
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Very expensive usually, a lot of people who buy surplus heavy-duty shop
equipment have run into this problem. Their trials and tribulations are
available with a google search.
There is a large installation cost plus extra monthly cost, I believe.
Maybe feasible if you live next to a factory or it is already run.
Cory Cross
Nick Austin wrote:
> Has anybody been successful in getting 3 phase power at home?
>
> Or a 3 phase generator?
>
> I just bought a TEVan, and noted that the included charger can charge at
> 25Kw,
> off 208V 3-Phase power. Wow!
>
> Perhaps this is unattainable for me :)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 3-Phase power at home?
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:48:37 -0700
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A friend of mine used to have 3-phase at his home. The power company charged
him $45 a month just to have it, then charged him by the watt. He wound up
building a 3 phase inverter, which seems to run his heavy duty equipment
just fine.
David C. Wilker Jr.
United States Air Force, Retired
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Austin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 2:58 PM
Subject: 3-Phase power at home?
> Has anybody been successful in getting 3 phase power at home?
>
> Or a 3 phase generator?
>
> I just bought a TEVan, and noted that the included charger can charge at
> 25Kw,
> off 208V 3-Phase power. Wow!
>
> Perhaps this is unattainable for me :)
>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:58:08 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: tropica batteries
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It's sounding like I'll stick with floodies. The next question now is which
ones.
1) US125 - what I have now.
2) US145 - same size, 36 lbs total heavier, 9ah more at 20hr rate, 13 minutes
more at
125 amp draw rate
3) US-250HC - 1/2" taller which is OK but longer which means at least one
battery needs
to be moved. 132 lbs total heavier, 15ah more at 20hr rate, 25 min more at 125
amp draw rate.
This may also require a change to the watering system caps which in which case
this choice is dead.
Capacity data from US Battery web site.
I'm thinking US145. Other comments?
Steve
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:01:37 -0600
From: Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: EV List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 220VAC Iota
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Hi Ricky and Everyone,
I didn't know Iota made a 220V unit...cool! I'll have to check that out.
I think you would be better off using a 120V Iota unit. I use two of
the DLS-55 Iota's in my 144V conversion. They work great. I wonder if
the 220V unit would even power up at 144V. My guess is no. Maybe at
your finish charging voltage of 170+.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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Subject: RE: Kilovac Czonka II Relay Question
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:01:41 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
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Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The high-tech circuits described by Roger Stockton also work.
> They cost more and take more design effort, but get rid of
> the power resistor and the heat it produces, and are thus
> more efficient.
They also work properly even if the contactor is switched on and off
several times in succession, unlike a PTC-type economiser.
More importantly, the high-tech circuit can hold the coil voltage within
an acceptably narrow range despite normal variations in the vehicle's
12V rail (could potentially vary between 10.5 and 15V). This is
particularly important for the Kilovac contactor since it wants the coil
held between 3.8-5.1V; over 5.1V and the coil may overheat, less than
3.8 and it may not remain closed.
Cheers,
Roger.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: When batt. posts turn black...
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:09:40 -0600
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Hello Bob,
This is a indication that the post through the plastic top seal is leaking.
When charging, discharging or self discharging, the acid is leaking or
conducting to this post. The current is shunting the plates.
When I purchase new batteries, I always have the battery distributor send me 50
batteries of which I only need 30. I inspect the post for discoloring and I
always have to reject at least 5 of them out of a pack of 50.
Also had to reject 8 of them for the voltage being way out of balance. My
specs. call for not over 0.01 volt difference between the pack of batteries.
This is normally cause by pallet stacking of batteries, where the battery
terminals even have a rise hard cardboard packing on each layer. The bottom
layer batteries have its top press down by the top batteries. Or could be a
poor seal to began with.
Reject these batteries and have them replace them right now. Even if there is
slight darkling of a posts on a new set of batteries, have it replace.
Also look at the date that is stamp on the lead pad connector on a offset post
or on the top next to the post. This date should not be over a month old. The
date code is A letter for the month, and the last number of the year.
My batteries have a F2 stamp on them, meaning that the F is the six month of
June and the 2 is the year 2002.
When I purchase my Trojan batteries from a local vender, he has some that was
over a year old and many of them has black post. Never was on a maintainer. So
I was able to order them from the Trojan distributor directly from the factory
which was not over two weeks old.
But even with that I still have 5 batteries out of 50 that had black post.
The distributor than pick up the 20 batteries and deliver them to the local
vender. He sells them to people that is not as fussy and fanatic as EV'ers.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Bath<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 4:47 PM
Subject: When batt. posts turn black...
Alright, here's the thing I don't understand....
18 USB8VGC batteries (ie, floodies).
About 4 of the lugs are now more of a black, than a
grey. Why? What does this mean?
3K miles on the pack; 350A max. current pulls.
Thanks,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:12:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 220VAC Iota
To: [email protected]
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That's kind of what I was thinking too, but at this point I'm just going to try
it and see what happens. Worst case scenario I can have one in a couple days.
To my understanding they had a 220 vac IOTA in Gone Postal with ~300 volts
going to it and working fine.
BTW, do the 120 volt versions come with a power cord? The 220's don't and the
only power cord with that connector on the end I could find was 18 ga wire so
I'm thinking that's a little bit too small.
Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Ricky and Everyone,
I didn't know Iota made a 220V unit...cool! I'll have to check that out.
I think you would be better off using a 120V Iota unit. I use two of
the DLS-55 Iota's in my 144V conversion. They work great. I wonder if
the 220V unit would even power up at 144V. My guess is no. Maybe at
your finish charging voltage of 170+.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
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Subject: RE: Correct AGM finish charge (Was: Re: PFC-30)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:52:37 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
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Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Thanks Roger.
No problem.
> It is odd Optima suggests no limit at final "I", and yet Rich
> is claiming that this WILL vent it sooner or later. It is
> contradictory and I have hard time choosing whom to believe.
I don't believe that Optima ever claimed that their battery will not (or
never) vent with this 2A for 2hrs regimen. Indeed, what Dr. Olson
stated in a presentation I attended is that although the battery may
vent, that even if all of this energy went into gassing less than 1g of
H2O would be lost. Note, however, that his presentation specified a 2A
for 1hr finish, not 2A for 2hr, and this recommendation was based on
superior cycle life with 100% DOD cycles (not 80% as I earlier
mis-remembered).
> Has anyone done charging with 2A for 2 hours no voltage
> limit? Did it vent?
Yes, I have actually done the 4A for 16hrs 'conditioning' charge on a
dozen YTs with no discernable venting. In my experience, YT vents
'click' as they vent, and not only did these not click, but there was no
discernable hissing when I placed my ear next to each vent. Voltages
and current were logged continuously and the peak voltages did get quite
high on some modules. Capacity of each module was tested before and
after, and it did increase.
On the other hand, I have had some of these same YTs vent with less than
15V and 100mA applied to them. I don't believe that regs will prevent a
YT from ever venting, and I don't believe that applying a 2A finish to a
string of YTs is guaranteed to vent any or all of them. I do believe
that if one cycles their YT shallowly and blindly applies 2A for 1hr (or
2hr) instead of an appropriately reduced duration, they will greatly
increase the likelyhood of venting their batteries. I also believe that
regs will reduce the odds of venting one's YTs, especially when using a
dumb charger (including a Zivan in this case). I strongly suspect that
the use of regs results in chronically undercharged YTs, but may still
result in longer life than not using them simply because without their
protection a dumb charger will kill them even faster.
> Peter? I suppose you do charge with no limit as Optima
> recommends, were you able to reach decent Optima life as Rich
> (who limits max voltage) claims?
>
> Any comments Rich why (according to you) would Optima suggest
> charging method which kills their batteries in a few hundred cycles??
Bear in mind Victor, that while Rich and John (Wayland) claim great
cycle life for their batteries, both appear to be estimating this
without having (or providing) any hard data of the actual number of
cycles and average or maximum DOD, or what remaining capacity their
packs have. The best data I've seen has been that of Al Godfrey for his
144V '914. His typical DOD was 50% (or shallower) and his E-meter
logged something like 1200-1500 cycles by the time he sold the car.
Even so, he did not have a firm measurement of how much remaining
capacity the pack had (I believe his feeling was that it may not have
been all that much more than 50% of new). He had Zivan chargers and
Rudman regs. I believe (but could certainly be mistaken) that for most
of the life of Blue Meanie's pack, John had no regulators and charged
with variacs or bad boy/ugly box-type fully manual chargers.
Experienced and conscientious as John may be (and I do have great
respect for him), I have difficulty believing that a manual setup like
this is likely to yield a greater pack life than Al's system. Likewise
with Rich; I'm pretty sure that the first time I got a close look at
Goldie it (surprisingly) didn't have regs installed, and the most
sophisticated charger I've ever seen him use has been one of his PFC
units. I've respect for both John and Rich and fully believe that they
got great life from their packs, but without better information about
how many cycles they really got, how deep those cycles were, and what
the remaining capacity of the pack was at end of life it is impossible
(for me at least) to make any judgement about the superiority or
inferiority of their charge regimens to those recommended by Optima.
The difficulty facing you, I believe, is of making an algorithm that
will optimally charge "any" VRLA battery. Optimas and Orbitals have
similar enough requirements that you could succeed here, however, it may
not be possible to treat Hawkers or Concordes the same way.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
