EV Digest 4679
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: 924 EV
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV pulbicity Re: Montreal Gazette article today, Sept. 6
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: NEDRA race location change?
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Help with motor rating
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) USFRA Meeting
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Help with motor rating
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) A newbie question/observation about range.
by Ken Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: searching for pulleys as shown in Grassroots videos
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Driving White Zombie
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 924 EV
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) EVDL FAQ?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Siemens EV Motors
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Zivan charger
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Home Garage Lift (For EV Conversion)
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 924 EV
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: AGM battery mgmt system
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: A newbie question/observation about range.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: A few questions...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Brainstorm on Tango style design.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Considering two different van types as conversion candidates, who
knows about these?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 924 EV
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EVDL FAQ? Wikfy it perhaps?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Why not put the electric motor(s) in the driveshaft tunnel?
A crazy thought: flip the 924 transaxle around, and run the electric
motor backwards. The tranny may not be designed for a reversed load,
though, and may fail prematurely.
Best bet would be to put the motor where Dr. Porsche intended -- is
the 20 pounds you save worth all the effort of reengineering and
building a new layout?
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is not the 924 a front engined water cooled rear wheel drive car?
> If you
> wanted to put in a 911 or VW transaxle up front, would you end up
> making it
> a front wheel drive? Yikes! That might be a bit of work!
>
> Or did you plan on putting the transaxle and motor in the rear? I
> expect you
> would have to get out the cutting torch to replace a differential
> with a
> transaxle, they are quite a bit bigger.
>
> Do not forget you will have to rework all the shifting mechanism as
> well as
> clutch mechanism. This is not easy work.
>
> If you want to do this simply to get around building a custom
> adapter plate,
> don't bother. Adapter plates can be built very rough and crude
> indeed if
> you are too cheap to spend the money. See grassrootsev.com
>
> I am sure ElectroAutomotive or your local machine shop can set you
> up with a
> quality adapter plate at the lowest possible cost.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Ray Brooks
> Sent: September 8, 2005 7:32 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: 924 EV
>
> I wonder how hard it would be to adapt a 911 or even a VW type 1
> transaxle
> to the 924 chassis. The only real challenge would be the inner CV
> joints and
> with a little luck those may either fit perfectly or require minor
> fiddling.
> With the above mentioned transaxles the adaptor bits are readily
> available.
> The electric motor would be mounted in the back of the car
> eliminating the
> weight of the forward bellhousing, driveshaft, etc.
>
> If the VW tranny would work it would save a lot of money vs the 911
> trans
> and would probably have a more usable 4th gear.
>
>
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jerry & All,
Is it broadcast on the web?
I have found this to connect up on the web
http://www.cbc.ca/listen/index.html#
- select "2"/Montreal
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: EV pulbicity Re: Montreal Gazette article today, Sept. 6
Hi Doug and All,
Doug Hartley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Jerry, Noel, and all,
Thanks for your encouragement!
I was called today to come into the CBC studio Saturday morning to be
interviewed for CBC Radio One, All in the Weekend program. It should be
another opportunity to spread the word some more.
Cool, take some more website URLs like Plasmaboy's, ect so they
can put them up on their website and talk about John's and Berbe's?
Current Eliminator dragster to help dispell the notions EV must be slow..
That with your dispelling they are short range takes away their excuses
against EV's.
Talk about small engined battery dominated hybrids would be good
too.
Is it broadcast on the web?
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
Best Regards,
Doug
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The date for the Woodburn race remains one of the biggest issues. We
had an earlier date planned but that did not pan out with the track.
When we established a date, the track switched managers and didn't tell
the incoming manager we would be there and it took forever for them to
get back to us to confirm. So we were unable to get back with everyone
here in a timely manner for people to make plans to come to the event.
So cooperation from the track will almost make or break an event.
Woodburn didn't even announce the event on their website. Roderick is
correct. They could have cared less if we were there or not. So it is
time to move on. It will be their loss later on.
PIR on the other hand is much more accommodating and so are our other
NEDRA tracks including the Power of DC held at Mason Dixon Dragway in
Hagerstown. And other tracks across the US where guys are racing EVs
are also very interested in hosting NEDRA events.
I have to disagree that only a handful of people are interested in EV
drag racing. We have three East Coast NEDRA events being planned in
2006. One in Florida is planned for January. We will have more updates
on that race soon.
At the NEDRA Power of DC this past June we had 15 vehicles racing with
5 NEDRA records being broken and the Discovery Channel from Canada was
there to film the race as well as the local NBC station. People came
from across the US to attend the race. I would hardly call that a small
minority of interest. The Northeast Sustainable Energy Association
(NESEA) who runs the Tour de Sol came down last year from New England
to check us out because they heard great things about what we were
doing.
I get plenty of email from folks visiting the NEDRA site who want more
information on the sport. We have been approached by racing
organizations from Europe to showcase and demonstrate our vehicles.
Magazines have approached us for stories. Top Gear approached us a
couple months ago. To say there is not much interest is simply not
true. We are silently making an impact not only in the US but across
the globe.
At each of our races we win against gas cars that challenge us. At the
Power of DC two gassers challenged us and we won each race. John
consistently beats gassers that challenge him. Dennis Berube is winning
money bracket racing.
NEDRA has plenty of critics, but it seems like its mostly from the EV
crowd. But the message we are sending out is to people who think EVs
are nothing more then glorified golf carts. To that end we are
dispelling the myth that EVs are slow.
John and Tim's performance last weekend with the White Zombie at PIR
was no fluke. Consistent 100 mph plus runs is a great achievement. The
gassers who are serious about drag racing are impressed by our 60 foot
times. These EVs can launch off the line. So I don't see how drag
racing EVs is not making an impact. Even though we are a small minority
we are making a great impact.
NEDRA is still a grassroots racing movement. We don't have the big
bucks and sponsorship that the pro gassers have. If we had the bucks
and major backing from sponsors we could build cars that could tear
down the track. I still like the idea that we are considered renegades
though.
Now that doesn't mean NEDRA doesn't have issues. We are all volunteers
with busy schedules and getting things done is a challenge. The doors
are always open for new blood to help out.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
It's a shame that more people don't attend NEDRA races at Woodburn. A
better venue would help but the basic problem is that not very many
people
are interested in racing of battery electric vehicles. Only a small
minority of
the people is interested in electric vehicles and only a minority of
that minority
is excited about drag racing.
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu Sep 8, 2005 6:58:39 PM US/Eastern
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: NEDRA race location change?
Let's admit that electric drag racing excites hardly anyone except the
participants. The lack of noise is a disappointment; most of the
excitement of a
drag race is induced by the noise. And the electric cars are slugs
compared to
ICE drag racers. While few electric dragsters can exceed 100 mph, the
faster
ICE racers can exceed 300 mph.
If we want to convince people to drive electric cars, we need to find a
better
way than drag racing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I have a Prestolite 24 volt motor and am unable to get any information from
them as it is so old. Is there some safe and hopefully simple way to find
the RPM and power capabilities of this motor. I want to use it in a
motorcycle conversion at either 24 or 36 volts. It is 7&1/4" diameter and
11" long if that gives any clues.
respectfully,
John Neiswanger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I met 4 Utah EVers at a USFRA meeting (Utah Salt Flats Racing
Association, http://www.saltflats.com). Including myself, we
represented 10% of the attendees!
Anyone in the Salt Lake City area that wants to talk electrics, come
to the USFRA meeting the 1st Wednesday of each month at Totems on
Redwood road, and after that meeting we can talk electrics.
Two of the EVers were BYU students that are building a streamliner to
take the E1 record (sub 500 kg electric). They slipped out before I
got a chance to talk with them.
The other 2 were Kent and his son Brent. They have built and raced an
electric junior dragster, and have run it on the Salt Flats. In the
past they have raced a hybrid escort on the salt. It did 6 runs
(accelerating for a full mile each time) without recharges! It had
Saft Nicad batteries.
Their current project is really exciting, an antique roadster kit --
light, and no roof or fenders. It has small frontal area (although
perhaps bad Cd?). They plan to race it in land speed, drag racing,
and autocross. I can't wait to finish my conversion and give them
some competition!
Right now land speed just has weight categories for electric
streamliners. There are no classes for production or conversion
vehicles. K&B tell me that if 3 electrics race, we can get a class.
So hopefully they'll be done by next September, hopefully I'll be
done, so we just need a third volunteer. If some of the NEDRA guys
are hitting 100 mph in the 1/4 (and some 150!), imagine what they
could do with miles to accelerate!
Another great K&B idea was to have solar racing on the salt flats.
The white salt is reflective enough it would pay to put solar panels
on the _underside_ of the car!
Some salt flats tidbits I learned (they apply to making electrics
more efficient, too):
A guy tried to get into the 130 club for 3 years with a Corvette that
could run 13's at 4200 feet. Best he could do was 128 mph. He
switched to narrower tires, and promptly went 139. I never would have
guessed wheels would help that much, but apparently the rolling
resistance of the salt is high.
I asked an experienced racer about that, he said it was work to pedal
a bicycle on the salt because of the rolling resistance.
A cheap source they use for skinny wheels is space saver tires. They
weld up the wheel, though, and don't depend on the small number of
spot welds. This could be a good way to get skinny tires on an
electric and improve the range. Warning, don't use the space saver
tire! You'll have to buy better tires!
______________________________________________________
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you can get a pic forwarded to me I would probably recognizes it. If I do I
can look some spec's up from the prestolite L600 service book.
Jim Husted
Hi_Torque Electric
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi All,
I have a Prestolite 24 volt motor and am unable to get any information from
them as it is so old. Is there some safe and hopefully simple way to find
the RPM and power capabilities of this motor. I want to use it in a
motorcycle conversion at either 24 or 36 volts. It is 7&1/4" diameter and
11" long if that gives any clues.
respectfully,
John Neiswanger
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is some observations and questions from a total
newbie, so don't any other noobs read this and think
there are any certified facts included. I am so new,
in fact, that I am still just lurking and reading and
haven't decided if I want to do the EV thing yet.
If I lived in the city, I think it would be a done
deal, but my house is about 14 miles from the city
limits. So given the average range of an average EV
of 40-50 miles, I am not sure that I would have any
useful drive distance left when I subtract the round
trip of 28 miles. (Actually probably more like 40
miles round trip since I don't usually shop at the
city limits sign.)
So...
A few months back, I saw a homemade light pickup EV at
a mechanics garage - probably an S-10 since that
appears to be a very popular conversion. In addition
to the batteries, there was a small generator set
bolted to the bed and had an external muffler that I
think was ducted down to about where a normal exaust
would be. I remember them saying that it had an
electric start and was totally silent from more than a
few feet. Unfortunately, this was before I began to
get interested in EVs and only gave it a casual
inspection so I have no details. I can't find the
truck again, so far.
I assume that this was not a real hybrid vehicle since
a generator of that size couldn't possibly drive even
a small truck at any highway speed. I guess that it
would either be a way to get an emergency charge in
case of running out a few miles from home, or a way to
charge at the halfway point, i.e. drive to work (or
the mall) charge while parked, then drive home - if
not with a full charge, then with enough to complete
the trip.
Obviously (to me, anyway) running the gen set while
driving would extend your range by some amount. The
larger the generator, the greater the range. Of
course, if you get one large enough to actually supply
enough current to drive down the road without the
batteries, you have then invented the ICE automobile -
which has been done before and you are back to square
one.
Is an onboard genset practical? Not for actual
hybrid type use, but for emergencies and/or halfway
point charging if needed? Or am I missing something?
Ken Farmer
Tyler, Texas
______________________________________________________
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Stefano,
Here in the Montreal area, I am using BDI Canada Inc, 9653 rue clement,
Lasalle, QC, tel.# 514-364-0808 for any coupler or drive stuff.
Take a look at this part of their web site:
http://www.bdi-canada.com/en/powertransmission.html
HTHs
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefano Landi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:34 PM
Subject: searching for pulleys as shown in Grassroots videos
Hello everyone,
Stefano here again the budget-minded Ford Festiva converting guy. I
watched
the grassroots video again last night for what seems like the 14th time.
I've been trying to locate a source for this split (tapered) hub pulley
things that the fellow shows on his bench. I understand the overall idea
and
since my EV is on a very strict budget I was wondering if someone might
have
any leads as to where I might source pulleys like those shown. Or failing
that if you know of another method to home-brew hubs for a keyed 7/8"
shaft
for my D & D please guide me gently to a URL or source of info.
thanks,
Stefano
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Tim has already responded to this, but here's my take, too.
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Tim Brehm wrote:
had major traction issues, spinning the tires and going a little sideways off the line.
What size and type are the tires and what was the pressure in them at?
I run 215/60/14 BF Goodrich Drag Radials in back mounted on 6 X 14 rims.
The tire pressure for street driving is set at 35 psi, but at the track
we drop it as low as 15 lbs. I took them down to 18 lbs. for
Woodburn....probably should have gone all the way down to 15 though.
To me, once I start to chop the car, be it a fully tubbed rear section
or simply fender flares in back, or add a roll cage, or swap out the
window glass for thin, wavy Plexiglass, or gut the interior panels and
such, it starts to go away from the street car concept too far. Thus, as
Tim has already said, I am unwilling to do these things....we'll leave
that more radical stuff to our Purple Phaze Datsun minitruck project
that will be raced under MC/A, as was Maniac Mazda, where anything goes
and there is no pretense as to the vehicle being representative of a
street car. The truck will eventually be tubbed out, will use big
wrinkle wall drag slicks, will have wheely bars, a roll cage, etc. and
will not be a street machine once it's fully developed.
The above stated, here's the deal on the Zombie's rear tires. You have
to remember, that the Datsun 1200 sedan was marketed as an inexpensive
econo-box fume sniffer. It's a small car that came with small 155 X 12
tires on 12 inch rims. We're talking about tires that were about 4
inches wide. A step up in wheel size for a 1200, is a 13 X 5.5 mag
fitted with 175/60/13 rubber.
Now, if you imagine a 6 X 14 inch rim with a 215/60/14 tire on it,
stuffed under fender arches designed for tiny 12 inch tires and rims,
you can get an idea of just how crammed in there these rear wheels and
tires are. In 1200 land, these are huge. There's only about 1/4 inch
sidewall clearance on both the inner and outer fender wells...that's it.
There's no room for anything bigger. There 'might' be room to go a bit
taller, but not much, as right now the outside diameter of the tire
places the tread surface only about a half inch away from the leading
and trailing arch of the fender lip...the tire literally fills the
entire fender arch.
The BF Goodrich Drag Radials we are using, are known to be some of the
stickiest street drag tires one can get, especially if you give them a
decent burnout to get them hot and sticky. I'm always open to
suggestions and ideas, and I will be looking at other makes of street
DOT rated drag tires to try. I've got a lot of phone calls planned in
search of a tire sponsor :-) Also, as Tim has said, we 'are' going to
make some rear suspension mods that will do wonders to make the car get
better traction.
See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> A question for you: how do you suggest people stress battery boxes to 3g?
> FEA? Crash testing?
3X the weight of the batts and build the structure to support that amount.
It would require a lot more than 1"x1/8" angle iron and some 1/4" bolts.
With some of the cars I hear being converted I wonder how long the doors
will continue to open and close before the excess weight causes the body
shell to begin to collapse.
Sorry to have wasted your time with the 924 brainstorming. I thought the
guy actually looking at one would jump in but he's probably asleep.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With the rise in gas prices, there is quite a bit more activity and a repeat
of questions. I realize that Rod has a great FAQ at EVParts.com and was
wondering - is this accepted as "the" FAQ for EVDL?
If so, I would like to add a few more popular items to the list.
I have noticed in postings over the past couple of years, there has been
little reference to this or any FAQs.
Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
When I first came aware of these motors (b4 electro mavin) bought them I
looked into them long and hard. Once I realized that there were a bunch of
issues like the inverter problem, drive adapter problem and what I would
have to sell them for when done in order to be competitive, I would have to
buy them for pretty much scrap price. Similar to what the original guys
likely did. Like $ 50-75 bucks ea. That was in fact my offer to the original
sellers. You were wise to tread lightly. Electro Mavin is just a misguided
hustler. If you want an AC system, Victors prices are pretty hard to beat
for what you get.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Barber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: RE: Siemens EV Motors
> I called up the guy selling the motors and he said that a customer bought
20
> of them back in May, and they're interested in buying the rest of them.
He
> said they are available again (off "hold"), but he seems to think that
he's
> got some hot customers. 143 motors at $2k apiece without controllers
seems
> to be an oddball kind of product. I'm interested in developing my own
> controller, but there wouldn't be enough margin in that price.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Roden
> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:47 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Siemens EV Motors
>
> On 7 Sep 2005 at 6:47, Don Cameron wrote:
>
> > He also said the whole lot is going to be sold today or tomorrow ...
>
> To a metal recycler?
>
> Actually, these motors will probably go to waste, which is a real shame.
If
> there were a proven market for these motors, and if there were enough of
> them, it might be possible to design or adapt an inverter for them. But I
> suspect the quantity is too small and the market too specialized to make
> that worthwhile.
>
> The only real market I can think of for them is advanced hobbyists who can
> design and build their own inverters. That can't be a very big market,
nor
> is any such person likely to spend very much on an orphan motor like this
> one.
>
> Sounds like somebody paid too much for a lot of motors, not realizing how
> difficult it would be to match them up with inverters. So it goes.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Man, I can't sit here and not respond to this! Chip has already done a
great job of answering Tom's post, but I just have to add my two cents
worth. Tom, I couldn't disagree with you more.
Tom Shay wrote:
.....the basic problem is that not very many people
are interested in racing of battery electric vehicles.
Let's admit that electric drag racing excites hardly anyone except the
participants.
No, I won't admit that at all. Tom, I haven't seen you at PIR on a
Friday or Saturday.....how would you know whether electric drag racing
there excites anyone? At these nighttime street drags, where hundreds of
cars are lined up against each other, the biggest buzz at the track is
about my electric Datsun! The announcer loves to talk up the electric
car, the racing fans say, "Look, it's that rad electric!", and the
gasser dudes come over to check out the car by the dozen at a time....no
interest? I'd be as bold to say, that no car there attracts more people
at one time, than does my electric car. It's easy to find my car...it's
the one with about 50 people all around it.
>The lack of noise is a disappointment; most of the excitement of a
drag race is induced by the noise.
There's some truth to this, but it's changing. I'm hearing people talk
about the sophisticated whir of my high powered EV, about how it's eerie
but way cool how it goes about dusting off the loud cars...the quiet
cool of an EV is catching on, Tom.
>And the electric cars are slugs compared to ICE drag racers.
Um, not true Tom. Most of the stock but higher powered sport compact
type small sedans like WRX's, SRT Neons, BMWs, and hopped up Hondas, all
cars that are of the same type of small import sedan as my Datsun sedan,
run in the 14's....about the same as did the original muscle cars like
Cudas, Mustangs, GTOs, Camaros, etc. My electric will blow all of them
away, plain and simple. The more outrageous rice burners, like the 300
hp Sube STI, turboed and nitrous hit Hondas, and the tweaked Mitsubishi
turbo Eclipses that race run in the low 13's and high 12's?...again, my
electric will now toast these gassers, too. Yes, there are even faster
ricers that turn outrageous times in the 11's and a few go into the
10's.....give me time, I'll get there in an electric. Last Friday night,
White Zombie absolutely wasted a 400 hp Corvette....and absolutely
wasted 'The Ultimate Driving Machine' a a tweaked and tuned BWM M3. A
slug compared to ICE drag racer? I think not. Streetable Big Block
Chevelles are now fair game for my little 'ol electric Datsun, too.
>While few electric dragsters can exceed 100 mph, the faster ICE racers
can exceed 300 mph.
Tom, the ones that can do 300 mph have about $250,000 -$400,000 dumped
into them! Give me that much dough for 'one vehicle', and I'll make an
EV that will give them a run for their money.
If we want to convince people to drive electric cars, we need to find
a better
way than drag racing.
There are many ways to convince folks to drive electric, whether it's
Alan Cocconi driving 300 miles on a lithium pack, Roderick Wilde
out-climbing hopped up 4 X 4 gassers at the Red Rock Climb years ago,
Dennis Berube' out perfecting the bracket racers at the track, or the
Electric Imp at the road course EVents....all are effective. For me,
drag racing is working, big time. I think you need to come down from up
north and take a look to see what you're missing. Tom :-)
As to the change of venue from Woodburn and that track's owner's lack of
interest in EVs, I agree, it's time to move on to PIR!
I also agree with Chip...it will be his loss.
See Ya.......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everbody:
How hard would it be to reconfigure a Zivan NG-5, currently configured for
132 Volts to a 120 V system?
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:53 PM
Subject: RE: Home Garage Lift (For EV Conversion)
Interesting idea but my wife would give birth to a Baby Cow if I came
home and started to take the jack hammer to the cement floor :)
Noel
ROTF
My wife calls my garage a grease pit already! Don't need to dig a hole in
the floor!
LOL
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I believe the 928 did also.
David C. Wilker Jr.
United States Air Force, Retired
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: 924 EV
Thanks for the correction Kevin, I though only the 944 had the front
engine-torque tube-rear transaxle set-up.
Ray, you may get lucky with CV bolt up, but make sure you check out:
- transaxle mounts (VW, Porsche, Audi are **not** all the same)
- shifting mechanisms
- speedometer connections
- clutch connections
- clearance for the motor
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Coughlin
Sent: September 8, 2005 4:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 924 EV
Actually, the 924 has the motor and clutch up front, and the transaxle is
already in the back. Power goes from the clutch housing directly to the
rear
of the motor in the front to the transaxle in the back of the car.
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is not the 924 a front engined water cooled rear wheel drive car? If
you wanted to put in a 911 or VW transaxle up front, would you end up
making it a front wheel drive? Yikes! That might be a bit of work!
Or did you plan on putting the transaxle and motor in the rear? I
expect you would have to get out the cutting torch to replace a
differential with a transaxle, they are quite a bit bigger.
Do not forget you will have to rework all the shifting mechanism as
well as clutch mechanism. This is not easy work.
If you want to do this simply to get around building a custom adapter
plate, don't bother. Adapter plates can be built very rough and crude
indeed if you are too cheap to spend the money. See grassrootsev.com
I am sure ElectroAutomotive or your local machine shop can set you up
with a quality adapter plate at the lowest possible cost.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ray Brooks
Sent: September 8, 2005 7:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 924 EV
I wonder how hard it would be to adapt a 911 or even a VW type 1
transaxle to the 924 chassis. The only real challenge would be the
inner CV joints and with a little luck those may either fit perfectly or
require minor fiddling.
With the above mentioned transaxles the adaptor bits are readily
available.
The electric motor would be mounted in the back of the car eliminating
the weight of the forward bellhousing, driveshaft, etc.
If the VW tranny would work it would save a lot of money vs the 911
trans and would probably have a more usable 4th gear.
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Hi Gabe,
My latest finding is that AGMs are *really* unhappy when they are
charged at high voltage, so don't take the specs for granted that say
that you can cycle-charge the batteries up to 15V because you will
be killing them off by internal gassing in a few charges.
Set your battery management to charge the AGM to the *lowest* recommended
charge voltage and you will have happy AGMs.
Any series string will always get out of balance, sooner or later.
Some batteries are forgiving, AGMs are not. Make sure you monitor
and balance each battery and your pack will last.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Gabriel Alarcon
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:12 PM
To: ev
Subject: AGM battery mgmt system
Does anybody know when a BMS is required for AGM's? For instance, when a
certain number are wired in series, parallel or a combination of those.
What BMS are commercially available out there?
Gabe.
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> Is an onboard genset practical? Not for actual
> hybrid type use, but for emergencies and/or halfway
> point charging if needed? Or am I missing something?
Sure, they are practical for emergencies and, perhaps, occasional use.
The main issue (for me at least) with onboard gennerators is the polution.
Small engines don't have anywhere near the polution controls they use on
road going vehicles. Your typical 5kw generator produces more polution in
one hour than something like an H2 Hummer produces in a whole day of
driving.
The other problem is getting usefull range from them. The above mention
5kw generator would have to run for about four hours to bring your pack
back to 90% full (another 30-40 miles).
Running the 5kw generator while driving the truck will extend your range
about 25-30%, and produce a couple days worth of polution.
Going up to a 10 kw generator will make a bigger improvement in range, but
use as much (or more) fuel as the unconverted truck. And produce MUCH
more polution than the unconverted truck.
So, for daily use, not really practical.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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> My daily commute is pretty light, although I do often go on
> the highway at 60 MPH. Other than that, the peak speed I normally reach
> is about 45 MPH.
> Now for the questions: For a fairly light EV, such as a motorcycle, what
> would be the best motor/controller/battery combo with a 1:1 drive ratio?
> What would be the dimension requirements on said equipment? Would the
> dimensions require a special frame? I would ask that you stay away from
> listing model specifics at this time, since I'm still in the planning
> stage and it might be a while before I'm ready to purchase the power
> plant... size and ratings will do. I'd like to get as much performance as
> I can with about a 20 to 30 mile range.
Well first off, you probably don't want a 1:1 ratio. Most electric
motors, that are suitable for a Motorcyle, get their best efficiency/power
when spinning at about 3,000-4,000 rpm. So unless you are planning on
using 6" wheels, you'll probably want a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio.
The second problem is your range requirements. If you are fairly
lightweight, and don't have a lot of hills, 200lbs worth of AGM batteries
will get you approx 20 miles range at 45 mph. 20 miles range at 60 mph
will probably take twice that much.
Motorcycles have crappy aerodynamics and take about as much power to go 60
mph as a Geo Metro or similar small car.
E-bikes are a fun project, just don't expect a lot of range unless you are
going to spend big bucks on Lion or LiPol batteries, or build a custom
frame and load it down with a 1/4 ton of batteries.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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I am inspired by the Tango. Basically it is a car split in half. I was
thinking an Aspire or maybe a Civic cut in half (hood to trunk) would be a
very usefull vehicle. Two seater with the back seat folding down. I have
two fork lift motors They would fit great on the back axle of a chopped
Aspire. (you might need that stiff axle to hold it all.) The Forklift is 15
or so to one. You'd need to use some large diameter wheels to get it going
at a reasonable speed. Everything you need is there. You would have to
change the front end a bit. Make the car a rear motor vehicle or maybe use
3 motors And make it a 4wd vehicle. I'm thinking using stainless steel
boxes under the floor boards. With ladders between the batteries. Maybe 13
EV-145's or 20 exides or optimas. The car would be longer and lower than a
Tango. That may or may not work out. It would be lighter & highly modified
but I think with the right welding I could do it. It would keep the same
cockpit feel and use all the same fenders and quarterpanels & maybe even
the doors. Getting the batteries low under the passengers is esential. The
forklift assemblies have 5 lug wheel holders. Very stout. With a zilla to
divert the power between 2 to 3 motors I'd be fast too. The ratio of the
forklift reduction might be too much even with large diameter wheels &
tires. Anybody done this? Maybe the Reverend? Otmar has made vehicles
longer.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I wouldn't worry about the Subaru. There is a club and they support the
even more rare Subaru 360. It shouldn't be a problem getting parts. It
might take some effort though. All the Jet conversions work. In my opinion
very well. I can climb every hill in San Francisco with my Electravan. I
finally solved the charging problem. It's now charging at 2amps on finish.
That's good enough and since I equalized the batteries it has better range.
LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 9:00 AM
Subject: Considering two different van types as conversion candidates, who
knows about these?
I am thinking about doing a van conversion. I was very tempted by the
Subaru micro van on the Tradin' post, but I'm a little concerned about the
availability of mechanical parts for a car that was never an official
import for Subaru.
I am considering two different vans. The most plentiful is the 1980s
Toyota, before the Previa and Sienna. There were several models,
including a 4wd. So far, I don't have a curb weight or gross vehicle
weight so I don't know if they can haul batteries. I would want to put
the batteries under the floor so I'll need to measure ground clearance.
They have the engine mounted between the front seats in a box which might
make motor adaptors a little tricky. There are several web sites for
these vans, particularly the 4wd version.
The second van is a late 1970's/early 1980s Mitsubishi. So far I haven't
found a web site for these. They don't appear to be as aero as the
Toyota.
Does anyone have experience with either of these vans? If so, have you
looked inside the engine bay of the Toyota and can you give me a notion as
to the possibility of wedging a 9" ADC or similar in the space?
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
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> Sorry to have wasted your time with the 924 brainstorming. I thought the
> guy actually looking at one would jump in but he's probably asleep.
>
Well I guess we were asleep because I am in the UK and the other chap (Al)
has (I think) already mounted the motor in the middle. Finally Steve Clunn
has already done the conversion to a 924 and its up for sale at $9000 on his
website.
The 944 layout is different from the 914 and the 924 and 911.
Anyway bad news for me is that the donor vehicle (924 blown engine) I was
just going to buy was sold from under me by the greedy owner.....
The good news is that I took a ride in a Griffon yesterday which is known as
a Bedford or Sherpa in the UK and the guy has a non running one for sale.
So It maybe that my first step is to buy and restore a production EV before
I use my newly purchased AEI electric motor in a lightweight ICE conversion
like a microvan or BMC Mini (like mellow yellow if you have seen it).
So I hope I may get my hands on the Sherpa this time next week to give me a
flying start to EV ownership.
John
Rochester City UK
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In case you can't find them... http://store.evparts.com/faq
.oO( Very nice! Thank you Roderick !! )
How about transitioning them into a easily editable wiki type format?
Something like the new SEVA site... http://www.seattleeva.net
Then Don (or anyone else) could simply add to them at will, and with
more people participating it can grow more rapidly to include more
information from more people with personal expertise... Of course
there are a whole new set of potential problems, but the wikipedia
seems to be holding together some 723,039 articles, 2.2 million pages,
22 million edits, a half million users, and some 500 administrators.
http://en.wikipedia.org
Anyway, just a though, If you haven't used a wiki yet you should!
They are very cool, and I've been online since before the "Web" so...
L8r
Ryan
Don Cameron wrote:
> With the rise in gas prices, there is quite a bit more activity and a repeat
> of questions. I realize that Rod has a great FAQ at EVParts.com and was
> wondering - is this accepted as "the" FAQ for EVDL?
>
> If so, I would like to add a few more popular items to the list.
>
> I have noticed in postings over the past couple of years, there has been
> little reference to this or any FAQs.
>
> Don
>
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